Hi folks,

I sent E=dream information from R.Wilkerson to all of us, I had a second one, but to much pages.. I didn't reach Laura and Wilson, the email address was not correct, who knows their new email address, I thought Laura was harmless@altavista.com, and for Wilson I noticed already last month he didn't get the mail, although the first time it worked out well. Joyful dreams, Hermine

Mana Le'A Gardens visitors,

I was not in Maui last night, but dreamt as follows. I woke up by a dream last night when I notice beautiful light tubes in the air, as if it was a special design. I also thought I am in London near King's Cross, or at this square. I wake up. Later on I sleep again and we are sitting in a bus with a group of people. At the side I notice or a Zoo or an area in nature with all different kinds of monkees. They were close and maybe loving together. I put of my cloths in the bus and we visited the monkeyplace, I don't know if I am still naked then....I walk with others through the building there also games to play with puppets. Later on I see Kelly Bulkeley behind his computer and he asked what is the highest mountain and I say "The Mount Everest".(in Europe) In my imagination I have put my novadreamer mask from three to nine. After the dream I realize I didn't do that in reality. When I did this in reality to control, it flashes 7 times.

Then I want to be lucid in my dream about our group. I think of Beatrice and the candle she used and the song :the candle in the wind of Elton John and a "happy after life" I think we meet eachother at a " Wine and danceparty" Ralf/Joe/Tokopa and Sasha and Alan make music together and I think of Alan in a solo ,who plays :The "mystery" blues on his guitar. I find out about brotherhood with the group and in which this can be shown as friends could do this by "bloodsharing" or as Indians did this ritual in former times. I also believe we can do a cleansing by drinking lots of water after the party during two days. At the end of this dream I remember music of my youth(the sixties) a song about Louisiana...(The far south state near the gulf of Mexico) and cottonfields at home(?), the text is not complete I know some of our group I will meet again in the immediate future. And I enjoy that idea, then I wake up again. I wonder if other dreamers had parallel dreams?

I have been having amazing experiences with parallel dreaming with my partner.

We will often have undeniably similar themes in our dreams and sometimes I think I dream sympathetically for him.

I experienced an amazing thing the other night, where I was given precious, until-then secret, information straight from his psyche, in the form of words. What I mean is, I was given a psychic message as if he were speaking to me directly. When I told him what I learned in the morning, we were both shocked. It is like we continue to converse through we are sleeping, but on a more profound level.

Does anyone remember the name of the woman who Keelin & SLB told us about, who makes sacred art from ecstatic dreams? Does she have a website or online examples of her work?

T

Hi Toko-pa,

This woman can be Farigba Bogzaran, she worked together with Stephen in Palo Alto on Lucid dreams. She showed her artwork at ASD this time in Santa Cruz, as she did on some other ASD Conferences, I can find out for you if she has an email address so you can contact her. Hermine

Dear Campmates!

As you know, DreamCamp at Kalani (on the Big Island) began last night. Since I wasn't able to attend this time (I'm feeling muchwhat bruised by bumping into the reality of day job responsibilities!), I'm indulging in the memories of our time together in Maui. It was a special connection that unfolded there and I'm sure those who are participating in the current retreat are about to experience a similar interweaving. Last night they were introduced to the "I Remember" exercise...! ;->

So, now that the current retreat is underway, I'll be trying to catch up with Forum correspondence over the next few weeks. I have missed being in touch with you all and our other Forum companions very much and appreciate everyone's dreams, discussions and helpful comments. Thanks for keeping the Forum alive!

Just time for a couple of brief notes for now:

• Betty: did the suggestion about posting that I sent a couple of days ago work for you?

• Hermine: The address you have for Laura is the only one I have as well and Wilson told me he'd be out of email connection for a few months, so I don't know when he'll be back in touch.

• Alan: I promise to send you some dreams for your article (selected excerpts from The Hickhiker's Guide to Lucid Dreaming ;->)

• Toko: I called Fariba tonight to ask if her art is viewable online. I'll let you know when I hear back from her.

• Ralf: Has your blinking alien pen written it's way into your dreams yet?

• To each and all, sweet dreams of mysteries unfolding...

Love, Keelin

Hi, fellow dreamers

@Keelin: It is watching me... maybe in another dream I become aware of being looked at.

I'm somewhat drawn into the physical world these days. It is a part of learning lucid dreaming, too, especially my soccer training. Yes, soccer. We are planning a match, my department (neurology) versus the neuro - surgery. I take this as an occasion to increase my stamina. When we first met for training a month ago, I could keep the pace only for 45 minutes. I decided to run and do gymnastics every second day. That's what I did. Now I persevere longer, than anyone of my team so far. And I persevere more than 90 minutes. I knew, I would have success. It's the same for lucidity: Diligent training pays off. And the physical training is part of my LD practise. It's an experiment. I want to know, whether physical fitness has an effect on staying focussed in exercises like 61 points or MILD. I'm not that sure, but in fact I feel a lot better and stronger and prouder, than I did before the training. I feel more present, maybe more focussed. And regarding the Maui experiment in dreaming and healing: I return from nightshift at 7.15 am, don't sleep before 8:30 am. I set my alarm to 11:15 am, with the intention to awake and induce a mutual dream. 11:15. The alarm goes off. I press the button to stop it. I'm focussing on browsing through the latest dreams on reminding myself to be lucid, the next time, I'm dreaming and on having a dream with my fellow Maui dreamcampers. But I'm having dreams about osteopathy and the hospital, just like I said - drawn into the physical world. The alarm goes off for two or three times, until I push the button to stop it entirely. It is 12:30. I rise, pee, return, put in my earplugs, the ND mask on, because it is too loud and too bright outside and in our sleeping room. Its difficult to get back to sleep. I recall some Maui pictures. The dance with "Somewhere over the rainbow", that has been fine. I recall the faces of my Maui companions. After some time the music leads me into the dreams again. I'm somewhere in a larger building. In a shop. I want to buy something for my soccer - shoes, then I realise, I don't have to do it. But I should buy water, juice and Coca Cola for our neurology - party (a real life event happening tomorrow). The dream goes on, providing some DSA2 occasions. The first time I'm very close to lucidity is, when I enter a classroom with singing children. I sit down and sing as inharmonious, as I can. I somehow know, that this is not real. Everyone is turning heads. OK. I stop singing false and try to hit the right pitch. But that is no fun. I'm outside the room in the large building again. I see a long haired - seemingly lovely -women leaving the building, some yards farther off. I know I'm dreaming and decide not to let this occasion pass by, as so often. With an incredible sprint (the training pays off in dreamworld, too) I reach her. She turns around. She is not the beauty, I expected. I look at her face for some moments. I discover another kind of beauty, not the one, I expected, but a beauty deriving from herself. Her face is shifting, morphing. I know the dream is soon to end. What can I do? I embrace her, tender, but tightly, holding her head against my chest, like I use to do with my beloved Astrid. Sparkling, loving energy flows through me, while I awake.

After all, this was a healing dream. It healed my stupid expectations and opened my heart much wider. And the days after this dream were deeper in love, than they have been before. And from the lucidity's point of view? I was not that lucid. I didn't remember my tasks. But I was able to choose my reactions, to reflect and to integrate consciously. So this is converging to my greater aims in LD: Conscious "real time" integration of subconscious contents. And, man, I can say that this few seconds of lucidity are worth hours of "common" dream interpretation, dream work, etc. I can't really say, why. Maybe, because dreams are so much more similar to full life, than thoughts are. And my experience is - again - that sometimes emotions are much purer, much more intense and focussed in dreams, than in waking life. And it seems to be this emotion, that can really move me to let loose of my stupid expectations and just embrace...

Keep on dreaming your lives and living your dreams

Ralf

ABRACADABRA!

www.bogzaran.com

you guys rock.

Cummon DreamCampers! If you don't give me the quotes for my article, I swear I'm going to get 'em off the woo-woo web! I need bona fide lucid dreams about any of the following subjects - please!

1. Dealing with nightmare characters.
2. Flying (the thrill of that first time)
3. Problem solving (how LD helped to resolve a problem)
4. Sexual encounters with dream characters.
5. Enhanced abilities (any LDs about performing a skill you don't have in waking life?)
6. Transcendence.

Now have sufficient reports for my piece - many thanks

Alan T

Greetings, All:

So how many of you made it to this past dream camp on the other island?

I would have loved to go, but I cannot imagine a more beautiful place than Mana Lea Gardens, or a more rewarding experience than this past spring...

Thanks, Toko, for the bogzaran link, neat stuff, .....what's up with the job thing?..

zzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZ( Trippy, Hippy Hula Hands) z z z z z Joseph

Hi hello!

I'm new here and the fact that English aren't my primary language don't make things easier. There are some things I don't understand. So I wonder if there is some kind of dictionary or something? Of course, I'm not stupid, (at least I want to believe so smiles) so some things I can figure out. Like LD = Lucid dream and NLD = None lucid dream and so one.

But for example: What does WILD:s mean? And Pre-Lucid? (I feel the answer to that probably is very simple) And transcendence? I looked transcendence up but that didn't help me much" I would be glad if someone could answer my questions.

Hi Linus,

A lot of people can answer your question, we all have the books of Stephen Laberge and the explanations with Wild's, Mild's etc. I am not that theoretical either to call it by name when I have my dreams. Stephen gives a whole expanation about the Mild technique. The Mnemonic Induction of Lucid Dreams. A Mnemonic is a memory aid and MILD is a lucid dream induction technique based on memory. The MILD technique ios based on the practice of remembering that you want to recognize when you are dreaming .Because MILD is practiced during the night it is very useful for producing multiple lucid dreams in one night.Each time you do MILD your aim is to become lucid in your very next dream. WILD is Wake -Initiated Lucid Dreams. A WILD occurs when a person enters the dreamstate directly from the waking state,without passing through other stages of sleep and with unbroken awareness. WILDS are most common in the late morning hours and during morning or afternoon naps. These are the times when the drive to enter REM is strongest and the time required to pass from waking into REM sleep is shortest. Nap-taking may be one of of the best methods for inducing lucid dreaming as well as being ideal for entering WILD's All from His Course in Lucid Dreaming the booklet you get when you by the novadreamer or supernovadreamer, but you can get the same information from Stephen Laberge's books. Transcendence to translate by whatever is not to be expressed in experiences you can explain by the clock, beyond time,space with broader dimensions or new dimensions for yourself, maybe more wonderful or highlights in your experiences by the dremas you get in new realities you didn't experience before. Our imagination brings us whereever you will be then, your own mind will work for you........ Maybe others give more details or you can read examples by following the dreamreports or reading about it. Most people have those experiences by meditation too, it's not new or unknown for centuries..... Hermine

Linus,

We'd all like to know what transcendence means.

Alan T

To trancend is to rise above dualing opposites.

Or, as I like to call it....option 3, better known as AND.

Don't take it wrong. I'm glad you try to explain it to me. But hey! You guys just confuse me more! confused

Transcendence. Word which is similar: Superiority, excellence, superciliousness... Am I wrong?

Transcendence, is it when you have full control, maybe? Like 100%. Or is it when you experience like "bigger things". Talking to god, understanding the meaning of life and so on? Argh...

Please don't give up on me... smiles

Another little thing: I do a reality test a couple of times every day. Always when I come to think of it. It's very simple and this is what I do. First I ask myself: "Is this a dream?' Then I carefully watch the surroundings. Trying to find something strange, something odd. Then I say to myself: "Nah" I'm not sure. Best I do a reality test.' I look on the back of the hand. Then I look away and try to focus on something in my upper left corner. I look back and see if my hand has changed. If not I look away again. I do this 3 times. Sometimes 4.

I've never actual in a dream made this test and because of it realised that it's a dream. In the beginning of the summer I sometimes, if I was doing something at the moment, just thought "Is this a dream?' and then waited until I was ready with what I was doing until I made the actual test. But then I had this dream: I was out in the forests. I think I had dreamed like 5-6 minutes. I went down a ridge and found a giant moto-cross jump, built of huge amounts of sand and soil. It was built at the edge of a big bog. I thought: "Wow! Amazing! Too bad this isn't a dream. If it were I could summon a cross and come speeding in 100km/h. Damn what I would fly far!' Then I thought: "Is this a dream? I'm not sure.' (But I was. I knew it wasn't a dream. But since I always use does words I did now too.) "I better do a reality test.' But then I saw more jumps and banks farther out in the bog. So I thought that the reality test could wait a little time. I went out on the bog and after a minute or two, when I had inspected the different jumps, I was just about to do the test. But then I saw a 1500-century cavalry coming down the ridge at the other side of the bog. I hid behind a few dead trees. Because it was a war going on in these regions. Between "nordsvearna" and "sydsvearna'. (I knew this from earlier in the dream.) So instead of doing my reality test I watched the cavalry. They used a very interesting technique to cross the bog. First two men put two stocks down. Then two other men came and put down big pre-made sheets of planks. Sheets where the planks were linked together with cords. This way they build a bridge over the whole bog as they moved. A very smart technique. Fast and easy. When the cavalry had reached half the way over the bog I lost the dream. And what do we learn from that?

Well, since then I always do my reality test directly when I come to think of it. I never wait more then the few seconds which it might take to put the things I carrying down (if I do carry something that is).

But even if I never have realised it's a dream thanks to my reality test I've tested if it really works, twice, in a lucid dream. And it do. I don't really understand why, but it do. I looked on my hand and it was normal. I looked away and back again. Now I had bent down my fingers and slightly turned my hand. At least it looked that way. The only problem was that I hadn't told my hand to move a single centimetre, still it had! I looked away again and back. Now my hand looked really grotesque. It was full of wrinkles and my fingers were bent in all kind of directions. It looked as I had been in some kind of accident with my hand. Now I at least knew that the test worked. I tested it again in another dream a couples of days later, and it was the same result. How come? Why do my hand move? Is the brain so creative during REM that it just can't refrain from moving/changing my hand?

Greetings, All:

..on the transcendance thing...

I like the terminology in your post, Linus...

The oriental traditions have interesting "levels" that seem to be connected to martial arts and shamans. I have often thought of lucid dreaming as a shortcut to this level that people spend years of meditation to achieve. Did ya catch "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon"?

The variety and generalality of your different descriptions do mentioned leads me to visualize transendence (enlightenment, etc.) as being a personal thing, and depends on the individuals spiritual and religious views...

It has always been my view of God as more interal, and personal to each of us...So can we be talking about certain level of getting to know ourselves? Coming to terms with who we are?

Now, should we dealve into telekinesis, astral projection, or distant healing the woo-woo meters would deafen us. Bur seriously, I saw Deepak Chopra on CBS(?) late last night, and he did some "scientific" experiment , showing a correlation between his strong thoughts and the unseen test subjects biological reactions.

This does interst me more and more. I am starting to feel guilty, campmates, for poo-poo ing the communal dream meeting of late. How can this be scintifically documented, and studied?

zZZZZZZ( In a true lucid dream, you can signal out with your eye movements) z z z z Joseph A. Schaljo

Linus, welcome to the Forum. You asked about the meaning of "transcendent." Here are some definitions from the American Heritage Dictionary.

Transcend ' 1. A. To pass beyond (a human limit); an emotion that transcends understanding, B. to exist above and independent of (material experience or the universe). 2. To rise above or across; surpass; exceed.

Transcendent ' 1. Surpassing others of the same kind; pre-eminent. 2. A. Philosophy. Transcending the Aristotelian categories. B. In Kant's theory of knowledge designating knowledge that is beyond the limits of experience. 3. Above and independent of the material universe. Said of the Deity. 4. Mathematics. Designating a number not formed by the fundamental arithmetic operations, each performed only a finite number of times.

Transcendental 1. Philosophy. A. Concerned with the a priori basis of knowledge; minimizing the importance or denying the reality of sense experience. B. Asserting a fundamental irrationality or supernatural element in experience. 2. Rising above common thought or ideas; exalted; mystical.

To me a transcendent dream is one in which the dreamer makes contact with an exalted or mystical source of knowledge or makes contact with the deity or something not of this material world. To me it is asserting that a supernatural element can exist in experience. In other words, making a claim that there is something to experience outside of the physical alone, to experience something of spirit or something unexplainable.

Linus,

Re: transcendence - example from personal experience:

I was laying in my bed, back in London 1965, gazing at the ceiling, when an old lady I knew, a member of the London Theosophy group, casually walks into the room and sits down on the bedside. I'm surprised to see her. She smiles and picks up my hand, turns it over so it's palm up - and draws a circle on the palm with her finger. I see her finger slowly trace a glittering silver line on the palm, and as the circle is completed, a sort of soft, slow motion explosion happens, and I expand - disappearing into an infinite space which feels like it's full of invisible rose petals. Very pleasant indeed.

Next time I saw the old lady, I told her about this. Of course, she knew nothing about it. But she said, "Oh yes, bliss! Bliss is enough for me!"

Cheers

Alan T

Hi all. Nice words about transcendence. I have been using the WILD technique and that had helped a lot re-entering my LD. My last two LD I could returned 3 and 4 time and that makes me fell last rushed and anxious about whatever I want our could do. I use the scratching hands with success too. They started as I felt that my body is not anymore lied in the bed. Sometimes I could see my hands going up, today was my head and shoulders going up in a kind of bluer black wireframe shape. I first checked if I could go up, or if something is pulling me up but that time it didn't happen and I was there in a big room with a lot of men and women. I asked a man to make sex with me, it was going ok, the dream start to fade, I scratched my hands once it wasn't enough, twice and then the dream go for more long. I had an awake and manage to enter the dream again. I continue with another man, had a nice time. I remember asking myself "What am I going to do now?" a lot of times. This is great! At certain moment someone said that a priest just entered the room. Although I know it was a LD I was worried about it. I didn't see him; he left before I could check. I feel great after this dream but the presence of this priest character made me curious about what a priest (I am baptised catholic but don't practice) has to say about LDs like that. Beatrice

After I just wrote you I went for a nap thinking maybe I could get more lucidity and it happened at least 3 times. First I was with a boyfriend and I asked him to make sex with me. He told that he doesn't like to act like that in LDs, that things that happen there really matter. So I told him to embrace me and I got trough his body. I felt a very nice sensation when I was inside him. In the other dream I made some experience about zooming in plants and it was amazing how many little things I could saw besides the leaves. In the other that I don't remember very much I was trying to get into a red abstract picture, a paintings with only one or two colors and feel how it is like... but I don't know if I managed to enter. Bye Beatrice

Hi all, Interesting discussion about transcendence...... When Alan asked us about transcendence in dreams I remember during rereading my dreamjournals I traced whatever dream I would call a transcendent dream? I told Alan meeting spiritual masters/councillors in my dream or being at places in space I would not come in daily life or religious experiences or contacting feelings of ecstacy are most connected for this experience. Higher consciousness or being lucid might give the possibility of reaching other realms or what shamans do having expeeriences in the upperworld or underworld and bringing this back to waking reality. Meeting the old wise man on the top of a mountain or other information by symbols/signs, light/source or whatever we call it might explain transcendence in words. Most of the time it's not to put in words but maybe first the experience in itself..... In the openness everythingcan happen. If I have automatic responses, most of the time I feel grateful to god that this happens,I don't know why it's there, I don't know where it's coming from, but it's just happening. I did three courses with Deepak Chopra, Creative Health, Journey into healing and Seduction of the spirit and the last one was specially focussed on meditation, one week, each day and a kind of transcendence is present each day in the way silence brings it up or contacts the source where it comes from. I am always curious in the morning what brings my dreamlife to the present situation. Most of the time it's connected with my relations in daily life or my processing of what's going on. Transcendence is from time to time part of it. Before I went to Maui I had this dream about circling with an airoplane above Hawaii and later on I landed on one of the islands. Another part of the dream was that I wear transcendent cloths. My son asked me what do you mean, do you mean "transparent" cloths? I was for sure my dreamtext was transcendent cloths for wahtever reason...... Hermine

Hehe" smiles

I'm still not sure about what transcendence means. But on the other hand it seems as no one really are. If I've understood it correctly, transcendence dreams at least seems to be connected with spirituality, religious believes, and higher states of mind and so one. Right? And I think that's all I need to know. Because then it's not so likely I'll ever have a transcendence dream. You see I'm an atheist. I don't believe in higher forces, destiny, the spirit, supernatural things and such.

And now to something totally different. I wrote somewhere that during this summer it's not only my, eh, "lucid dream ability" which have change, but my ordinary dreams have changed too. They've become longer and so on. And another thing that's changed with my ordinary dreams is that I nowadays never am afraid of the consequence of my acting. Somehow I know there won't be any because it's a dream. But if I know it's a dream, wouldn't I kind of become lucid then? So I don't really know. It's like my consciousness have increased, and even if I don't realise it's a dream it lie there waiting just under the surface leaking information. I can't explain it in any other way. For example: This morning I had a dream witch lasted about 40 minutes. I and a couple of others tried to rob a bank. But something went wrong and the police showed up. I managed to escape. The rest of the dream I was running from the police. (In fact I rather often dream I'm hunted. But it's never unpleasant in any way. I always find it amusing.) Well, the point is that I during the whole dream stole all kind of things, broke into homes, climbed walls to protected properties, fooled people as I wanted and so on. And all the time I had these thoughts in the back of my head: "It doesn't matter." "You think I care?" "You can't do nothing." As if I knew it was a dream. Before this summer I often worried about social and legal consequence in my dreams. But not anymore" Sure, it is something good. Because it make your dreams much more funnier. But I really think these kind of thoughts would lead to lucidity'

Greetings, All:

@Beatrice..Thanks, sweetheart, I so enjoy reading your posts,,Truely an uplifting moment in my day (pun intended)...You have an amazing gift...Get into the 3d stuff (try Microsolids Solidworks), it will blow your mind....

@Alan...Rosepetals, huh? Nice imagry , I am having visions of young girls.... American Beauty... Good vibes, brother...

Had a cool lucid dream the other night...I flew a while, avoided the temptation of meaningless masturbation (if we don't conjure our loved one(s), what else is it?), and flew towards the galactic core. Suddenly I was in a small personal spcae ship, like one of those cool bug eye looking heliocoptors. I told Ralf (and Beatrice, I think)in Hawaii how I was going to fly into their soul space (visualize an orb, or bubble holding the soul) and cut the chains that hold back so many of us. Rather than entering the spheres (as Hermine commented on when seeing the cover to Stephen Hawking's Book), my space ship simply bounced off the bubbles in some type of pachinko / pinball machine effect. The joy of the dream masked my dissappointment at not achieving my goal, but then I guess this is not intended.

Am I subconsciously becoming more aware of peoples insecurities, and how it is none of my business. I like to think I can help people, but I guess this may not always be an easy task..Just who's bubble did I bounce off? Sorry, Guys .....Enough interpretation stuff for now......

zzzzzzZZZZZZ(If enough imagry bleeds through to a lucky soul pocessing a strong imagination, the only defining difference between sanity and insanity is fidtitious tactile sensory stimulation) z z z z z Joseph A. Schaljo

Hi Linus,

The few transcendent lucid dreams I've experienced over the years have had in common a feeling of merging with the dream environment, a dissolution of the boundaries I usually associate with my sense of "Self vs. Other/Non-Self". When I dreamed about the meaning of the Universe (see Chapter 12 in EWLD), there came a point at which all was One. There was a sense of interconnection that's hard to put into words. There was Consciousness, but it felt expansive, inclusive, undivided.

This quality of interconnection/integration is one I would like to foster in my waking life and I'm deeply grateful for the chance to have had an occasional glimpse of it through lucid dreaming. In a lucid (as opposed to non-lucid) dream, I'm able to realize that my dream companions are essentially visualized expressions of my desires, fears, expectations, hopes. So if I treat "them" with respect, compassion, patience and a sense of humor, I can have an experience there in the dream world that will be of some benefit, as a rehearsal, to waking life.

To answer your earlier question, "pre-lucid" is the state you're in when you've noticed a dream anomaly and are performing a reality check. Your conclusion determines whether or not you continue in a non-lucid state or realize you are dreaming (i.e.: become lucid).

Sweet dreams to all, Keelin

Hi Linus, I read your dreams again and I was wondering about the one of August 14 if nordsvearna and sydsvearna, if it was my dream i would think of north and south parts of a country , and your "building a bridge" in this dream was quite wonderful. At the end of the dream you said "What do we learn from that, to me the building of a bridge was essential in the dream........ The second dream of August 15 about not robbing a bank but stealing all kind of other material, I would use the method of the dreamwheel group I am in. Asking the following questions: Clarifying questions: 1 Questions about the details of any aspect of the dreamas they appeared in the dream.f.i. (feeling details)How did you feel in the dream when you did those things, stealing or other actions.... (action details)Can you describe exactly how he did it? What movement did you make , what movement made others in the dream? (content details) What kind of material, Where were you when you did this? 2 Questions about how any "real" people or places in the dream differed from their real presentation in daytime life, f.i. (who /what was recognisable)is the place recognisable? Do you know the person? (how does the "familiar" differ? Was the material the same as in your daytime life? or howwas it different in the dream? 3 Questions about what person/object/action etc. means for the dreamego. You can ask something like," What would the dream(plus name) have thought of the person/object/action etc. This makes sure that the emphasis remains on the dream and the dreamego rather than swithing it to the daytime ego(who may have very different views upon the matter) Don't ask interpretation questions or questions about material outside of the dream itself. Later on other people of the group can add "If it was my dream " and give their personal reactions on your dream...... or about your hand and fingers in the dream, maybe the hand didn't move, but your eyes or your mind makes up your own story of bending your fingers etc.....

For your dream of August 15 If you ask yourself the questions above or other people would do you might get another view on the dream. If it was my dream I would ask myself why I do need these things or what is my need at this moment? Or if you say it's a dream and in the dream the text comes " it doesn't matter" or "it's fun " kind of adventure, I would ask myself in what way I like to have adventure or feel careless.....

Somewhere I read this quote " Feel the cosmos as a translucent ever-living presence." Maybe you will discover a new phenomenon which was always there, but to which you were not alert, or not aware of it. The presence of the ever-living existence, you can be part of it as Keelin said in her experiences of transcendence. Like a drop who has fallen into the ocean. Melting /merging together, as Stephen said on the tape you can be the butterfly or the butterfly can be you...... Hermine

"Hi Linus, I read your dreams again and I was wondering about the one of August 14 if nordsvearna and sydsvearna, if it was my dream i would think of north and south parts of a country , and your "building a bridge" in this dream was quite wonderful. At the end of the dream you said "What do we learn from that, to me the building of a bridge was essential in the dream........ "

Yeah, you're right. "Nord" means north and "syd" means south and "svearna" are the inhabitants in Svealand which is the middle part of Sweden. A long time ago it was its own country and so were the situation in the dream. And I'm seeing what you mean with "building a bridge". You mean it would reflect on some situation in my awaken life were I try to be the negotiator between two fighting part, right? But it wasn't me building the bridge. It was one of nordsvearna's cavalry. And when I said "What do we learn from that?" I meant that I should do my reality test directly when I come to think of it, not as earlier, when it suited me"

"The second dream of August 15 about not robbing a bank but stealing all kind of other material... "you can be the butterfly or the butterfly can be you...... Hermine "

Argh" please be patient with me. I understand all the words you're using, no problem. But I'm having troubles following the reasoning, understanding what's your point. What do you mean?

Do you mean I should be more specific on feelings, details and so on when sharing my dreams? Or? And just so you know, I don't believe dreams gives you hints and clues about your life. I don't believe it's some kind of link to something bigger. I believe my dreams are something which only exist in my head. It's something my own brain creates to help remember things. In the dreams the brain go through the recent days and process the data. Deciding what's important and what's not. The brain kind of acting as it own psychologist"

"Don't ask interpretation questions or questions about material outside of the dream itself."

Why not? Or" eh... I don't understand. Like the hand thing, I thought someone might knew why reality test works. I thought that maybe keelin (who works on the lucidity institute, right?) had participating in some research concerning that area. I thought that maybe someone had a theory. My main reason of asking that question (Why do my hand move?) wasn't that I wanted to have someone else's view of this particular dream. I wanted to have someone else's theory of the whole reality test-thing...

Maybe it's a two-way misunderstanding. Or maybe it's just me not understanding anything"

Please be plainer. Have patience with me'

Hi Linus,

I just gave you some examples of ways you can work with your dreams. The dreamwheel method is a method used by other people. They ask you objective, non-interpretative, questions about what happened in your dream. They do this to clarify its contents. You can also ask these questions for yourself, without the help of others. In this way you can find out what the dream tells you. And yes, maybe Keelin can answer your question more precisely about the reality-checking. I wanted to tell you that when you think you are moving your hands, you are only dreaming that you are moving your hands. In reality you're just lying in bed, not moving your hands at all. Just like your eyes and mind give you the idea that you can fly over mountains and oceans or through ceilings and walls, they give you the idea that your hand or body is moving. I hope you enjoy your dreams. Maybe you will get to know more about yourself and the world around you by remembering your dreams and even more by having lucid dreams. All the experiments you do will help you to get lucid in your dreams. I think the way you recall your dreams is excellent, so I think you are also able to be aware of the fact that you are dreaming. If so you are already prelucid and at that very moment, you do your reality check and when it turns out that you're dreaming, you try to stay lucid. You can attain this by doing the exercises Stephen has mentioned: spinning your body, rubbing your hands, etc. What also helps is taking action in your dream, so you will not be an observer but you will be taking the role of a participant in the dream. Last night I had several dreams. In the first dream I dreamt about a former boyfriend and other men and I didn't want to have any contact with this former boyfriend again. Later on I was in a group with women and we wanted to pass through a tunnel under the ground. There was water in it and I also expected small animals to be in this water. To light up the darkness, I asked the women to use small balls of light, which they could activate by rubbing between their hands. One woman refused to do so, but the others did. The second dream started with a piece of a map of the USA, which had Nevada and Dakota on it. When I saw the area of Nevada I thought about the Paiute Indians. And when I saw the part where Dakota was I thought about the Sioux, which I first saw in the movie "Dances with wolves'. Suddenly the word Nebraska came to my mind. At that moment I realised I was dreaming, because Nevada and Dakota are familiar to me and Nebraska isn't. I wondered which tribe would live in this state and guessed it might be Cheyenne indians. At that moment I thought "I don't need a map', because I could dream everything without any help from maps or such. I went on to continue dreaming about being with the one I love in a lovely environment. This morning part of a dream was about Deidre Barrett, who gave a presentation of the art of a lot of painters. In my dream I knew all the names of these painters. She has given such a presentation at the ASD Conference in Santa Cruz this year, where she had the slide frames mixed up, so sometimes she had to switch back and forth between her slide frames to get the slide with the right painting. In my dream I knew the painter and painting she was talking about, even when the wrong painting was depicted behind her on the white screen. If you keep an open mind the possible depictions are endless. You can transcend matter, time, and space. This is what I see as a reference to the transcendence we talked about earlier.

Hermine

"Hi Linus,

I just gave you some examples of ways you can work with your dreams. The dreamwheel method is a method used by other people. They ask you objective, non-interpretative, questions about what happened in your dream. They do this to clarify its contents. You can also ask these questions for yourself, without the help of others. In this way you can find out what the dream tells you. "

Hmm" But why would I like to "clarify" its content? If I remember a dream I remember it. I know what I was feeling and so on" I don't need to ask myself a lot of questions which I already know the answer to. And I don't think my dreams can tell me something. What would that be? At least not my lucid dreams. What I do in my lucid dreams are my own will.

"And yes, maybe Keelin can answer your question more precisely about the reality-checking. I wanted to tell you that when you think you are moving your hands, you are only dreaming that you are moving your hands. In reality you're just lying in bed, not moving your hands at all. Just like your eyes and mind give you the idea that you can fly over mountains and oceans or through ceilings and walls, they give you the idea that your hand or body is moving. "

Hmm" I hope I don't offend you in any way. But isn't that a little like telling a blind person he can't see? Of course I understand that when I'm flying around in my dream I don't do it in reality. You can't fly. That's something I understood when I was like one and a half.

"I hope you enjoy your dreams. Maybe you will get to know more about yourself and the world around you by remembering your dreams and even more by having lucid dreams. All the experiments you do will help you to get lucid in your dreams. I think the way you recall your dreams is excellent, so I think you are also able to be aware of the fact that you are dreaming. If so you are already prelucid and at that very moment, you do your reality check and when it turns out that you're dreaming, you try to stay lucid. You can attain this by doing the exercises Stephen has mentioned: spinning your body, rubbing your hands, etc. What also helps is taking action in your dream, so you will not be an observer but you will be taking the role of a participant in the dream. "

I thank you for you advice. But I've read through all the information on the lucidity institute's website several times. So I know all that. And during this summer I've had like 1-7 lucid dreams every weak" Sure, I might still be a beginner in compere to many of you but I'm well familiar to the phenomena lucid dreaming. So I know what it is and I realise the possibilities. But I still don't understand how you can "learn more about yourself". I just see the LD world as a big playground. A playground where you can visit Rome 2000 years ago or go 40 years in the future and visit NASA's base on Mars. It's like the ultimate computer game. You can even set up rules and play games after them. Something I only managed to do once" Sure, I also see the possibilities of overcome nightmares, phobias and so on. The possibilities are huge. But what do you mean with "learn more about yourself"? You mean like putting yourself in different situations and see how you react? But that would never work for me. What I do and how I react on things in my LDs have nothing to do with the real world...

"In my dream I knew the painter and painting she was talking about, even when the wrong painting was depicted behind her on the white screen. If you keep an open mind the possible depictions are endless. You can transcend matter, time, and space. This is what I see as a reference to the transcendence we talked about earlier"

I think I've beginning to understand that now... thank you.

Hi Linus,

I believe you are in your "twenties" ? There seems to be a book the "users illusion", a Norwegian writer or someone from Denmark, I didn't read this book but I believe it might be interesting. I am interested to hear more about your lucid dreamexperiences, 6 or 7 lucid dreams a week is more experienced I conclude by now! Hermione

Hi...

Thanks for the tip, I'll try to find it. And I'm certain you're a lot more experienced then me. Many of my lucid dreams are very short and uneventful. Like this morning for example. My dream had just started and I stood under our balcony. Then I thought: "Ok, it's a dream. Why don't I take control?" And so I become lucid. I went inside but it was night and it was totally dark. I felt how I was about to lose the dream. I ran out again but I didn't get more then 4-5 metres. Then the dream faded away. I tried the spinning technique. I don't know for how long I was spinning. The dream didn't come back. After a while me changed in to this little yellow 3d circle which had the text "spinning" written on it. I was a couple of metres up in the air looking on the little circle spinning around and around. Except that dream object there was nothing else. Around us it was like a big think dim wall. After like 30 seconds I dropped the try and woke up" And Hermine, no hard feeling because I didn't understand you, okay?

Hi Linus, I guessed your age because of your dream in which you told us "your mother was passing your room in the house", so some logical reasoning. The other point of view is about dreams and what they can mean for your waking life. Stephen wrote in "Lucid dreaming" about Dreaming:Function and meaning. So if you are curious what dreams can tell you find some information in his book and of course in other books. Why would people share if they didn't believe problem-solving in dreams is possible, healing dreams or improving your abilities f.i. Alan from the dreamgroup Maui asked us to share about the different kind of dreams. It's maybe not your purpose, but if you want to you can make an intend before you go to sleep to get an answer in your dream about your job, familysituation, friends or what subject you are interested in. And in Lucid dreams you do already what you like to do or you realize what you can continue to do in daily life. Maybe effortless! Hermine

Hi Ralf and all others, Ralf , I am curious how your soccergame/party went? You were so much sharing , at the moment I dont' know what's going on?

The sacred response of transcendence Transcendence and universality Personal,collective and universal, all in one Be one I am Visionary response " We have a dream"(a vision) Hermine

Hi hermine...

But I'm not in my twenties... Check my profile and you'll see I'm only 16...

Hi Linus, Where do I check your profile? Congratulations with your interest in lucid dreaming! I have two sons of twenty and seventeen, both write down their dreams(the youngest not very often) but never talked about lucidity. Last time ,this weekend the eldest read my correspondance on the Lucidity Forum and said he didn't find it easy to understand, but finally he understood some more of our discussion. Hermine

Hey everyone!

Did you get the link to our Hawaii photos?

Hope you enjoyed them, I loved poring over them again.

Last night I had quite a dream sign...I arrived in Sydney airport (where the aboriginal Dreamtime lives and thrives), and there was a massive billboard of Stephen and Lucid Dreaming there...

apparently it wasn't enough to get me lucid...

Love,

Toko-pa

Thanks, Toko...

Joe

Hi Toko,

Interesting.........I shared with Alan about Uluru/Red Mountain/Alan Springs and Dreamtime and a Conference I would help to organize with the French Oniros group in 1997/1998 but which I didn't continue. Alan said that it would be wonderful to have a dreamconference at that place. Maybe I will be in Sydney in November and I did a reservation to fly to Alice Springs and stay there some days and fly back to Sydney again. So your timing of the dream is synchronistice with our conversation about the Dreamtime! Hermine

Aloha, Toko, Goddess of the Island Mist!

Mucho Mahalo for sharing your wonderful photo album from the workshop in Maui. You certainly captured some of our wild band of dreamers at their best. I can even hear the laughter! How sweet to see all those dreamy characters once again.

Hope your days & nights are unfolding in splendid ways for you.

Love, Keelin

PS: Toko: Did you get my note yesterday sent to the reply email address that accompanied the photo announcement?

Hi Hermine and fellow Oneironauts,

You can read the profile of anyone who's posted on the Forum by clicking on their name at the top of the message (that is, if they've chosen to make their profile viewable to fellow readers).

You can also change your personal profile at any time by clicking on the link "Edit Profile" in the main menu on the Forum and following instructions there.

Sweet dreams, Keelin

Hi Toko-pa No, where can I find these photos? I got some photos of Sasha by email, but how do I enter your link? Where did you put the indication to find this? Hermine

Very Pleased :D

So glad you enjoyed them.

Hermine..I sent the link to you twice and I just responded to your last e-mail. Let me know if you still have troubles.

Keelin - I did just now pick up that e-mail thank you!

It's hard to believe almost 4 months have passed!

Much love,

Misty

Hermine - I've just discovered the "Oracle of the Dreamtime" circular cards and find them to be extremely magical.

They are all designed around the dreamtime myths and beautifully drawn by aboriginal artists. Well, the Uluru card is one that is totem for me! So it is doubly synchronous that you & Alan were discussing it.

Did you know that according to the aborigines, women are forbidden to climb Uluru?

T

Hi Tokopa,

Today I got your email for the first time and yes I found the beautiful slides, I saw them all,a great job for all of us, I felt the energy of Maui again, a wonderful experience with our group! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaauuuuuuuuw. About your mystical dreamtimecards. I have never seen them, I hope to find them somewhere. In our country in Utrecht is an Aboriginal art exhibition, maybe I find them. I will not climb the Uluru mountain, I will have three days to have a look around. Ayers Rock(Uluru),Sunrise/sunset,see the paintings and waterholes/the Night sky show and Ayers rock telescope and maybe more. I'll share more in december, when I have really been there. Hermine

Hermine,

Here is a link to some examples of the Dreamtime cards:

http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/oracledreamtime/

Your trip sounds full of adventure...I wish I was going too

T

Linus wrote to Hermine about possible uses of dreamtime: "You mean like putting yourself in different situations and see how you react? But that would never work for me. What I do and how I react on things in my LDs have nothing to do with the real world..." My answer to Linus: How you react in your LD's can have everything to do with how you react in the socalled "real world." You can practice doing something in your dream world and take that practice into your real world. The woman who won the 1988 Olympic Gold Medal for figure skating had dreamed her entire routine the night before she performed it. In her dream she did the entire routine perfectly. When she skated in the real world the next day her performance was flawless. There are numerous stories like this, and hers was not even an LD. Now, with regard to your comment: "But that would never work for me." Oh, beware young reader, for believing something like that will certainly make it so. How much better to believe and say, "The idea that I can practice difficult things in my dreams is wonderful! I know that I can do that!" Give it a try, and then tell me how you do. Now, with regard to all this talk of Australia - Jerry and I are ready. When do we go? Here's the plan. We meet in Alice Springs, go out to Noel Fullerton's camel ranch, get Noel to fit us up with a camel each and have him lead us across the Outback to Uluru. We'll camp out under the stars and have fabulous dreams. Noel will take us to great places and caves and tell us lots about the Aborigines. We must do this! What do you say, Linus? Are you in?

Hi Joan,

In Maui we talked with Stephen about a Conference in Brasil. If we would ask him about Ayers rock, Australia he might change his plans.Although Brazil might be wonderful too. We have to ask Beatrice about her experiences in this country. If our dreams brings out the place to go too, is also a good idea. Maybe first of September, the night of the 31 of August bring us some new ideas. A plan for next year and not in June, because we will have the ASD Dreamconference in Boston then. Hermine Tokopa thanks for your message, I will look up the dreamcards one of these days.

Hermine, how about an ASD conference in Australia? We'll go ride the camels on our own!

Hi Joan,

Good suggestion, you tell them. The ASD organization is big! After Boston, Atlanta was in teh picture and then Copenhagen. Hermine

Hi Joan!

"My answer to Linus: How you react in your LD's can have everything to do with how you react in the socalled "real world." You can practice doing something in your dream world and take that practice into your real world. "

Sure, I understand that practising something in your LD's might improve you skills in the real world. But what I meant was that the "learn more about yourself"-thing wouldn't work. Because in my dreams I don't act the same way as in real life. In my LD's I'm god. There I do whatever I want to do. And other dream characters who don't act the way I want I destroy in one way or the other. But let us say I, for example, want to know how I'll react if I'm on a airplane which are just about to crash. In my dream I would most likely be very excited and feel a bubbling happiness in my stomach. If it was real I would probably be paralysed and scared as hell. You understand what I mean? Let us take another example. Say that I want to know how I would react if I was assaulted by a mad axe man a late night. In my LD I would probably just smile at him and feel a great happiness because of his stupidity. Attacking god? Don't he understand that's impossible? Don't he understand that he's just a dream character. A dream character in one of MY dreams. I would just observe him. When he se I'm not afraid of him and when he understands that I know he's not real he will probably stop and just look scared. He knows that he is unwanted and therefor must be eliminated. Then I destroy him. If the same thing happened to me in the real world I would run away totally terrified as fast I can, I guess. So I don't react the same way in my LD's as in reality. Maybe you do, but I don't. And as I mentioned earlier this "I'm god"-behaviour have even begun influence my ordinary dreams. Something I find amusing.

"Now, with regard to your comment: "But that would never work for me." Oh, beware young reader, for believing something like that will certainly make it so."

True" The LD-world is what you make it to.

"' What do you say, Linus? Are you in?"

Hehe" Riding camels in Australia? I appreciate that you asked me. But I don't think so. Maybe when I'm older and have a little more of these, ehh" What do they call them? Money?