Hi practitioners, We need some renewal of Mauii oceanic energy and sunshine this time of the year. With the yahoo groups is some interesting theme about seeing one'hand in the dream, like Carlos Castaneda described in his book Yourney to Ixtlan . More people use this to recognize they are lucid, who of us had this experience? Maybe we can focus on dreamsigns of lucidity and in what way we manege to stay lucid then. I listen to Stephen's tape about trance induction of lucid dreaming 'bedtime' and 'daytime', most of the time I use the evening time before I am going to sleep. At night I hear his voice during my dreams and sometimes I repeat part of his text and know that I am dreaming then. Not the last period but afew months ago I saw hands or fingers in my dream and was amazed how clear the details were. I have wake ups during my dreams because I see myself doing things which I don't do or didn't do in daytime, so I wonder what is happening next. It is like a continuiing story, I am just following what is coming up next. Hope to hear from one of you, Hermine ASD dreamconference will be in Boston from the 15th till the 19th of June, who is going there? Last year Stephen came to ASD in Santa Cruz I am not sure if he will be in Boston, but I can ask Keelin of Robert Bosnak or Mark Blagrove, who are in the organizing committee. Hermine

Dear Hermine!

Nice to CU. You are certainly right, we need some early spring lucid energy. Something as curious as a new born child. Like awaking from the long dark and grey time to a beautiful vivid day full of fresh green and blue and some colourful spots. Just read your post after mailing my latest dreamreport. Matches with your suggestions, doesn't it? Maybe we should set up a "mutual" Maui - exercise on prolonging to refresh lucidity - muscles. I already started physical exercises, jogging, doing gymnastics, playing table tennis in January. Anyway I started to work on the lucidity basics since our last experiment. May be helpful for all of us.

Never did I get lucid by looking at my hands and I never tried the Castaneda exercise with this intention, although I read most of his books. But, like Daniel, I used the "looking at hands" technique to stabilise and prolong dreams. I used it to create a dreambody, one can say.

I'll certainly use the LD inducing tape one day... I promised it. ;-> Sounds easy. Do I want it easy? This is what I ask myself over and over. Why not do the most effective things? Like MILD? I don't know. Instead I do my exercises before nights sleep. At least better than doing nothing.

Thanks for info on ASD.

What about the other Maui dreamers?

Would be glad to hear from you all!

Yours Ralf

Hi ! I made a new experience in a LD last night. I met someone I want to know more about it in a dream and got lucid twice making that questions "Am I dreaming?" during the dream. It's is very likely for me to ask that if I wake up in the middle of the night and go to sleep again. As soon as I was lucid I started to ask questions to that person who didn't give me any answer. Then we started to argue but he didn't said anything new that we had not already talked about it during day time like "You are too rational..." I woke up and start the dream again. In this NLD he was in a way that I didn't like it, I got lucid and wanted "very much "to know things. Then it happened, I had a lot of multi transparent layers scenes of his life projected in a very big dream screen with hiper realism, I mean the objects and people in the scenes had numbers and words near by to explain them. I don't know about the quality of the information but the number of it had increased so much if I compare it to my NLD scenes.

Let's make new experiments! Beatrice

Beatrice!

What a fine experiment you carried out in you dreams! Very good. I don't think, you are too rational...

I'd like to do some new experiments. I'm working on prolonging these days. I think this could be a fine subject for everyone. Even Linus wrote about it in "Post your LD, miscellaneous". I think there is a prolonging "mood" in the forum. Let's use it. My suggestions is: Let us focus on prolonging techniques. Let us have many lucid dreams and use spinning, handrubbing, looking, talking, dancing, walking, listening to birds twitter, and whatever comes to our dreaming minds. And then let us share experiences. But I would suggest creating a new thread for this experiment. I would place it in the folder "Learning lucid dreaming" and name it "How to prolong lucid dreams" or "Discussion of secondary techniques -Prolonging."

I would very like to invite all Maui dreamers AND all the other forum oneironauts to take part in this "experiment". It is more a basic exercise, that is what I think. Who wants to join in? Just say: "Yes". I think we can collect our earlier lucid dreams which include any prolonging technique. This would be a good illustration not only for us, but for everyone.

Long live lucidity...

Yours Ralf

Just back from Hawaii, let me thank all you Maui dreamers once again for inspiring me to go. It was wonderful.

Also, you might be interested to know that we had some spontaneous mutual dreaming - or did we? The guy who dreamed the same as me four times said he doesn't believe in mutual dreams. Go figure!

Happy to join in your experiment.

Joy

Greetings, My Friends:'..

Sorry to have been so non-contributory of late, but'well I really have no excuse, other than the fact that I have been exploring circles of life outside the well work track of my former habits'.

I would have called these tracks "ruts', but in no way would I include posting here amongst any old habits that have that have a negative connotation'.

Enough of that rambling'Here's the beef:

I had a rare "wonderful" dreams today, one in which the current trapping of life were all gone, and everything was just "hunky-dorry (sp?)''

It is just a shame that the comfort that I seemed to find was the result of slipping back into mindless compulsions that occupied my existence of the past 20 years, compulsions that I have worked hard in the year gone by to do away with'..or at least replace with more healthy, rewarding habits'..

Naturally occurring dreams themselves can truly be such a powerful form of escape-ism"

I cannot help but think, "If I had gone Lucid, I would be reminded that this very temporary bliss is itself fictitious', and hence the experience would have subsequently ended prematurely'..

On the contrary, I would have probably had a more positive feeling had I gone Lucid'.

And in the end, I did wake up and was reminded of the actual reality of my current plight'Which really "Aint (sp? LOL)' all that bad'.

zzz ("Cast Away Your Chains, Even If it Give You Pain" Uli Jon Roth) z z z z Joe

Hi all! I was dreaming and suddenly some strange things happened and I realized I was dreaming. Yes, I remembered our experiment so I decided not to go for anything and just explore activities that will make my LD longer. I kept on moving like Linus said and then a butterfly appears and I followed it, a lot of movements in that but after a while it went to the corner of the dream scene and I missed it. Then I start turning my head to the both sides while walking; it seemed to work too. I liked the experience, things look bright in a kind of garden. I was always repeating "I am still in a lucid dream.' I have this idea to open my eyes widely to see more, that made me open my "real" eyes. Maybe this was a false awake's eyes because I remember to start other dreams not very long from that. Next time I will check it. Was a different experience moving and observing things, but it could have last longer... Beatrice

Hi all, Two weeks ago ASD did dreamtelepathy from Saturday on Sundaynight, I had a dream on the Wednesday before and on Sunday I have written Ed Kellogg who did the sending of the image that it was Pegasus, on Monday he send a message for all participants of ASD that it was the Pegasus symbol. I am convinced we all can try, so I asked Robert (of our Mauii week to do so, I had the image of pottery ,he had a dream about earthware teapot or bowl, interesting though! A prolongin lucid dream .......we all give it a try, I say "Yes" as soon as I have tried I'll let you know. The weekend before I woke up because in my dream the roof of the house had gone and there was water on every floor even in the basement,(this is a part of a longer dream I had) I thought it was caused by a tornado, then I woke up in the dream, because in teh Netherlands we don't have tornado's so I knew this must be a dream." or "I must be dreaming" Enjoy your dreamtime

Hermine

Hi, Maui friends

Feels good to CU here!

Joe Hope you don't change your habit to be the extraordinary, funny queer fellow, I learned to know.

Beatrice Fine example of prolonging dream and lucidity. May I copy it to the learning lucid dreaming thread?

Hermine Wow. Congratulations for your great ESP hit! I time and again think of a new experiment in mutual dreaming or telepathic dreaming. Are there regular ESP experiments at ASD? When is the next? Do you want to start another try here in the forum? I don't have that much time the next months and presently focus on the prolonging thread and exercise.

Greetings to Robert

CU Ralf

Hi all,

A Happy Easter to all of you, yes Ralf I am busy too, we can do a trial for ESP or telepathy. With ASD members we have conversation or discussion now about lucid dreaming , at the moment they talk about Ken Kelzer 's book and his description of lucid dreaming. I will meet Robert in Boston or first California and then Boston, I'll send him your greetings. I can do another try on the Forum in one or two weeks when we arrange the date , I'll be ready to do so. For example a number , a shape and a symbol, three different possibilities. Or I can take a picture as Ed Kellogg did. Let me know what you prefer. Love Hermine

After Easter, Not much is left at our Forum we are all too busy or less into dremconverstion with more of our groupmembers? ASD is talking about Lucidity all the time, an ongoing discussion, in the eighties,nineties and after 2000 in 2002. I noticed the group of Hawaii 2002 is active in discussion too. I will meet Stanley krippner in Oporto Portugal the next weekend at a Conference about Shamanism. Lvoe to all Hermine

Aloha, Hermine and Maui Dreamers!

What usually happens after awhile, is that the participants from a particular retreat begin to intermingle with other members on the Forum as their postings naturally fit into the more general topics. It's a natural progression, but sometimes it's nice to drop in and say a more personal hello to the very special group that we experienced together on Maui.

You are all quite vividly and warmly remembered in this dreamer's heart.

Oceans of Aloha! Keelin

Keelin, you know there's more to it than that! 463 posts from the Maui dreamers, 177 from Kalani within less than a month of getting home, and the next most prolific group logs in at 10?!?

May all future groups be so blessed; dream on....

Fellow dreamers!

Joy, I, too, think, that there is something special about the Maui dreamers (the same counts for the Kalani - group and of course for lucid dreamers at all). It is exceptional, that we keep up conversation for nearly a year now. Like Hermine, I sometimes missed feedback in this special thread. I think, this is normal, although I wish, we all had more time to post and to practise lucid dreaming. Keelin is right, when she says, that someday the special group conversation merges into the wide spread forum posts. And this is why I think, that our new experiment should be open for all forum dreamers.

Hermine, thanks for the information. I would prefer a picture. Just say, when you are ready, say, when you'll send the target, then we'll announce the experiment in the forum. I think we should open a new thread for this purpose. Maybe we could collect some information on our past Maui - experiment - tries there.

CU in LD

Yours Ralf

Hi you guys!

I know I have been away for a REALLY long time, but it is coming up on the anniversary of our trip to Maui and I am remembering you all fondly.

Remember our group slide? That was hillarious. I can't believe somewhere, somehow, Robert has it all on tape.

Things in my dreamworld have been pretty amazing. Mostly I still do interpretation, but occasionally a lucid one pops up. Not since last summer, methinks.

Well...what news? I have been working on a dream television show. Actually, I wrote it and am trying to get broadcasters to put it on the air. So far, we have had one major invester, but still need another to get it off the ground. Lots of boring administrative work, but one day...I will be galavanting around the world as its host, trying to discover all kinds of dreamtime secrets.

As nature has it, life is full of deaths & rebirths, and I'm doing my best to stay afloat and not let Neptune swallow me up.

Missing you my dream-friends, and all our magical adventures that destined week.

Love, Toko-pa

PS: I will try to check back more often, find out what's going on with everyone!? What did I miss? Any exciting news?

Blessings, xxx000

Hi, misty goddess!

Glad to see you online.

What did you miss? Some time ago there have been some interesting experiences in dream - telepathy.I'm not sure, if you read the follow - ups. You have to take a look back in time... Hermine is putting up another experiment, once she has the time, she's always on the run. Hope we can somehow revive the discussion and lucid practise here. I'm somewhat busy these days, hope to stay in contact. I, too, think of our Maui time, these days. Neptune swallowed my goggles, do you remember? I think, this has been a worthy sacrifice, he should leave you on the shore (but why not follow him?). Lately I had the chance to see "Matrix" in the German version. A kind of flashback, too. All in all I think, that we were badly infected with the lucid virus that days, some of us chronically, some recurring, some chronically recurring. But everyone carries this infection, that seems to be incurable in the long run. And dreamers like you spread the virus widely... Superb!

Keep on good work

CU later

The punisher (Don't leave the butterflies all tied up!)

My dear Ralph

So glad to hear news of you. Yes I remember Neptune capturing your goggles. In fact, I have a photo of the last few seconds of them on your face

I would love to hear more about Hermine's experiment. I have been thinking about going to Boston for the ASD conference. Is anyone else going? Do we know anyone in Boston?

Ah Lucidity.

Somehow there still remains an incalculable divide between what I would like to do and what I must attend to right now. My dreams keep me really busy with their metaphors, their stories.

It is as if there is a road towards awakening, but it is piled up with distractions, obstacles and illusions. I am trying to deconstruct this pile, with my psychological and spiritual practice. But it seems Lucidity lies beyond that still.

I do meditation practice, and learn from a Buddhist teacher how to cultivate detachment but maintain my compassion. It is a tricky balance, but I am committed to it.

I feel there are levels of lucidity, and fairly often I experience a milder version. I will be in a dream and have a scary confrontation, and now I take a moment to be unafraid, and pass through it unharmed. This isn't the same as becoming totally awake, but I do feel as if I am making lasting progress rather than a fleeting one.

It comes at the same speed with which I learn detachment in waking life. It might still take a while

Love, Toko-pa

Friday, 3. May 2002

Toko

Your writing of the photo reminds me of my unfinished story on my website. A year has passed and I'm ready with the arrival on Maui ...

Hermine is in Boston every year, as far as I know.

Lucidity

Keeping busy: I just decided to turn off the TV to dedicate more concentration to writing. Just like I wrote: Somewhat unfocussed these days. Your thought on your practise and the slowly but constantly rising level of overall awareness sounds good. I still work on having more than four LD per month constantly. My goal is eight. But I don't work enough, so it seems. I made some steps forward in prolonging and had some really ecstatic experiences. Compassion and detachment: The important lessons. I work on them seemingly every day. OK. That is getting into very personal realms. Your words lead me to think different on my daytime experiences. I can say, that detachment, which I identify with "knowing that I perceive everything by means of my sleeping mind", similar to "knowing that I'm in a dream and it is hard to gain full lucidity" has helped me a lot these days. I find, that it is not easy, but possible, to practice compassion with a sleepy mind. I'm learning to become more detached, i.e. more lucid, and not to act automatically too often. It seems that, from the point of view of detached compassion, my focus is drawn into daily life to face all the changes, all the challenging situations linked to my son being there for three months, my Astrid and me looking for a house to start up the practice, the continuing work in hospital, the courses in chiropractice and some minor developments. It is like one important change unveils all greater and minor points of resistance. It is really a tricky balance. Today I enjoy it and we all seem to develop well. Great words... compassion and detachment. It is not that I feel like being great, but rather humbled and with feet on the ground. Strange, that my (non lucid) dream of today says the same and something completely different:

After a long way (I have forgotten about the details): I am standing inside a large cathedral (reminds me of the one in my hometown) , which is built very high upon a mountain top. I gaze through a window, look down and get dizzy and afraid for a moment. But it is wonderful to see the fruitful green plain miles below me, where the beautiful Danube is meandering. I lift my head and see other mountains surrounded by clouds. It dawns on me, that I'm actually high above these clouds. This sight, this place fills me with great joy and humbleness. I call my son (and Astrid?) to come up and share this experience, this sight.

This one reminds me of something, that I seem to neglect: That all this climbing of great hills, all this work, has a religious attitude for me. Maybe not just an attitude, but it is crowned by a religious experience. From this point of view all my way up can be (with hindsight) seen as a divine way. And what, if we can enjoy all the way, all the work, all these steps, together, as a community? I hope this sheds a new light on my future experiences regarding the work on and with compassion and detachment.

No, that isn't off the topic. It is about lucid living.

Feet on the ground, head above the clouds

Yours Ralf

Hi Ralf

Thank you for all this insight into your process. There is much there.

One of the things that I find most conflictual, is how in my community of Jungian Dreamers, there is a real resistance to Lucidity. It is the same question I came to Maui with and only do I feel slightly less confused about it.

It is the question of ego. If you enter into a dream and encounter a beast of some kind, this alerts you to your dreaming and you decide to take control of the situation. Here, whatever you decide, the Jungians (not all of them, mind you), think this is the interest of the ego performing in your dream.

Though I totally see what they mean, I also disagree with this whole notion that you have to be in analysis to work with your dreams. It's elitest and I don't buy it. While I think many people are not honest with themselves about their shadow side & complexes, I believe there are many strong individuals who are extremely capable of doing self-analysis.

This conspiracy that we must give up our bodies to doctors, our minds to institutions...that there is someone (who we can pay), who knows better than we what we need to heal, is complete rubbish. It disempowers the Self! It puts the authority into someone else's control, the very thing we should be railing against.

On the other hand, I truly believe in the tradition of the Shaman & Mediator. Most of us need objectivity, guidance, counseling. But without a sense of community (which most of us have forsaken), this figure is becoming extinct in modern society.

As a result, we surrender ourselves to these authorities, rather than developing authorship.

Yesterday, a wonderful analyst at the Jung Foundation (Robert Gardner), gave a seminar on dreams. In the final moments of his presentation, he said something that resonated as very similar to what you have said about the religious nature of your quest.

He said that in his opinion, dreamwork is a religious pursuit. That God speaks mythologically, and it is our human instinct to reflect & bring Spirit into consciousness. He said the understanding of our dreams was perhaps so difficult, because it involves learning an infinite number of God-languages.

I am just learning to assure myself that this is an excellent vocation, though it is highly disregarded. Working with dreams is an art, and so we are artists. I like this very much.

Love, Toko-pa

Dearest Toko

There are two articles on dream - interpretation and the meaning of dreams in the latest issue of electric dreams, one by Strephon Williams and another, longer one by Richard Wilkerson. I'll post you a copy, if you want.

If you read Strephon Williams: Jungian - Senoi Dreamwork Manual, you'll come across a small chapter dealing with LD in this context. I would loosely translate (I use the German edition) his attitude regarding acting lucidly in dreams with: Take care not to inflate your ego, but do it, do it consciously. It is worthy to work on the questions he poses in this chapter.

Werner Zurfluh, whom I claim to be one of the most prolific LDers and OBEers in Europe, had a very hard time dealing with his Jungian education, as he writes in his book "Quellen der Nacht". He certainly still hangs on to the Jungian system, but came from this starting - point to his own development. He bit by bit explored the ways of how to deal with lucidity in a Jungian context. There is one component somewhat similar to LD in Jung's teachings, he called "Aktive Imagination" (~ active imagination (AI)). This is a kind of very intense daydreaming / imaging, but always linked to an awake physical body.

Lucid dreaming hasn't been mentioned by Jung, maybe besides his "NDE /LD /OBE" in the context of a fracture of the foot and a heart attack. (Jung: "Erinnerungen, Träume, Gedanken", 1962:293), which he called vision, dream (and he knew, he was "dreaming") or ecstasy (what can easily be translated with OBE).

I'll translate a paragraph of Zurfluh's website, related to the cited experience of Jung:

QUOTE: Jung says: "The objectivity, I experienced in these visions, belongs to perfect individuation" (Jung, 1962:300). Therefor I may say, that all OBEs, I ever was allowed to experience, belong to an individuation. That's why it isn't to comprehend, that many followers of Jung are pretending, as if OBEs (and LDs) were just signs of infantilism, resistance, projection, inflation and psychosis. I would suggest seeing OBEs as spiritual experiences, which open new dimensions to human - being. And for exploring these dimensions it needs especially the knowledge, which has been produced by C.G. Jung.

Jung sagt: «Die Objektivität, die ich ... in den Visionen erlebte, gehört zur vollendeten Individuation» (Jung 1962:300). Ich darf also sagen, daß alle OOBE's, die ich je erleben durfte, zu einer Individuation gehören. Deshalb ist es nicht zu begreifen, weshalb viele Jungianer so tun, als seien OOBE's (und LD's) bloß Anzeichen für Infantilität, Widerstand, Projektion, Inflation und Psychose. Ich würde vorschlagen, OOBE's als spirituelle Erfahrungen zu sehen, die dem Menschsein neue Dimensionen eröffnen. Und zur Erschließung dieser Dimensionen braucht es insbesondere auch jenes Wissen, das von C.G. Jung beigebracht worden ist. ENDQUOTE

Later Zurfluh writes:

QUOTE: Why won't the followers of Jung expound the problems of the link of active imagination and LDs and OBEs in spite of Jung's NDE - neither in everyday practice, nor in the frame of accepted theory? Here the successors of C. G. Jung obviously slam the door to different realities. The OBE - reality of the "unconscious" is being walled up rigorously, blocked and locked up by means of ostensibly scientific seals. And this on top of that in the name of a man who - as the quotes show - had a different attitude regarding these subjects. Jung though didn't integrate his OBE in his theoretically system, but he did NOT doubt the essentiality of the experience, which he did report in the words available to him [at the time 1944].

Die Frage stellt sich also nochmals: Weshalb wollen die Jungianer den Zusammenhang zwischen der AI und den LD's und OOBE's trotz Jungs Nahtoderfahrung nicht problematisieren - weder in der alltäglichen Praxis noch innerhalb des geltenden theoretischen Rahmens. Hier schlagen die Nachfolger von C.G. Jung eindeutig die Tür zu anderen Wirklichkeiten zu. Die OOBE-Realität des "Unbewussten" wird rigoros zugemauert, versperrt und mit sich wissenschaftlich gebenden Siegeln verschlossen. Und dies erst noch im Namen eines Mannes, der - wie die Zitate zeigt - diesen Dingen gegenüber eine andere Einstellung hatte. Jung hat zwar seine OOBE nicht in das theoretische System eingebaut, aber er hat an der Wirklichkeit des Erlebens, das er mit den ihm zur Verfügung stehenden Worten geschildert hat, nicht gezweifelt. ENDQUOTE

Other reasons for the "Jungians" to neglect LD etc may be (according to Zurfluh's text):

They identify "consciousness" with "awake body" They think, AI is a method for advanced psychologists / patients Jungians see dreams as something natural, maybe sacred, untouchable. Some may simply fear a direct confrontation with the "unconscious", they like to preserve ego from the overwhelming forces of the shadow.

Hope this helps in understanding and discussing and integrating Jungian psychology and lucid dreaming. Be so kind and keep us / me updated on developments in this case.

Here is the www address of Zurfluh:

http://www.oobe.ch/index_e.htm

Dear Tokopa, Ralf and others,

I wrote a short piece at another part of Maui of last December. Later on I found May again, timeframed , one year ago was Maui. I am going to Boston, so I will meet you again!

ALOHA Hrmine

PS I was busy working in a new house until today

Hi, Hermine

Good to CU!

The news from your home country did shock me, too. But I must confess not as much, as I would expect or wish. It sounds hard boiled, but the same counts for the horrible death of teachers, pupils and policemen in Germany a week ago due to the amok run of a young man: It feels like my capacity for tragic events is exploited now. I still have the feeling, as if the horror of September 11 hangs like a depressing cloud over all countries, all men. The world seems not the same since then.

You posted you message before last to the "testimonial" thread. That is why you got December 2001. And then maybe you landed in one of the many archive - folders. However, check the state!

I visited your ASD - "homepage". Very informative.

Hope you have time for the experiment some day.

Much fun in Boston

Yours Ralf

Aloha, Maui Dreamers!

A year may have flown by, but my heart still hovers amongst you all.

Ah, the return of the butterflies! Keelin

Hi Hermine, Ralph & Keelin

Ralph, thanks for these quotes & links. All of those reasons are true, and I also agree that Jung himself was much more exploratory than some of his followers. With the research that has been done on LD, I'm sure he would've looked into it further had he still been alive.

I see both sides, and am obviously unconvinced that LDing should be avoided. I feel I just go at a slower pace than some of my fellow Lders. I'm sure you will wait for me to catch up.

Hermine --- I haven't decided to go to Boston yet - though I would love to, $$$ inhibits me. I will keep my ears open for a way I might attend more cheaply. It is certainly tempting to see you again. What's this new house? Have you moved?

Keelin -- we have come out of the chrysalis, but always in transformation.

Love, Toko-pa

Hello! Nice to hear from you all. My last LD was about one week ago. After have got lucid and fly a little I asked, for the second time, people around about others people life. I though that maybe I could come with something knew for my daytime

I though that maybe I could come with something knew for my daytime life. As in my NLD I came with a very bad picture of whom I had asked. It is like I can not change the content being lucid or not acting like that. It is a kind of solving problem dream based on dream character's opinion. I think I have learned for now that is better to meet the person then asked others opinions in LDs. I need more practice in finding people in LD...

Hope to join with some of you again in one of those meetings.

Beatrice

Hi all,

About a dream of the 8th of May. I had fire coals in my hands and gave this to others in the house.(I once did this in France at an outside campfire, some people of our Voice Dialogue group in Lucinges in France, took the coals in their hands and gave these to the person next to them. I had no blisters, last year in September I walked on coals and had no blisters )Then in the dream I wanted to bring the fire outside to prevend a fire in the house, but it started burning everywhere and I tried to use water to be protective and extinguish the fire. My father came and helped me so the fire was gone and I thanked him or was grateful to him he helped me. My question do you speak of lucidity when I am conscious there is a fire and I want to extinguish the fire? What would the element fire mean to one of you? In a way my father was a very energetic man who could be so temperamentful that he would punish me for my 'rebellious' actions, in a way that I was not powerful to react to his behaviour. In this dream I am thankful, he prevents the fire from extending in the house. In another way I see fire as an energy of 'love' and I wonder why I would be thankful to my father who is diminishing this energy? I am interested to do a healingcamp with a healer Fawn Journey Hawk (who was on teh reservation with the Paiute Indians in Carson city)in California the beginning of next year. I ask myself if it has to do with these plans? On Tuesday the 7th of May I dreamt about sitting on a horse in an upright way, my back straight upwards and I felt great to do that. ( I was riding a horse when I was young, not after my twelfth year old.) On thursdaymorning (the 9th of May)I dreamt about dogs and the food, e.g.meat I gave them and the meat fell on the floor.The people were a couple of my old village, the general practioner and his wife and in reality they have three dogs.) Another dream this Sunday was about a town or village "Suarrez", I have never heard of this town The woman would go there. (I know Suez and the Suez canal but not a name Suarrez) Okay so far if any of you has comments , please let me know. Love Hermine

(PS Keelin I bought sheets for my bed with butterflies, so my dreams will be influenced by transformation patterns!)

Dearest Hermine,

What a powerful dream! For me, burning coals have a kind of consistent heat to them. They may be our passion, our instinctual drive, that which motivates us to action, even anger! When we get heated up, perhaps sexually energy also.

In your dream you are concerned about keeping these hot coals in your house and want to get them outside. Have you entered a time in your life when your passions/anger need to be expressed? Is it time to share this with the outside world? Is there a danger of burning yourself out by trying to contain powerful feelings?

Your father helps you to extinguish this fire. You are grateful for his help in the dream, but you describe your waking association as feeling powerless to react. So perhaps there are two attitudes here -- one that has internalized your father's way (to act according to a set of restrictions, even if it means extinguising your powerful feelings), and the other is to have a mature sense of not letting things get out of control.

It's interesting that you use water to put out the fire. Of course this makes complete sense, but metaphorically it may point to two opposing elements in your attitude. On one hand, you have a firey passion and on the other, a watery diffuser. What is this water, the tool you use to put out the fire? Is it watery emotions...sadness?

It's true that the fire mustn't get out of control, but perhaps getting it out in the moment, bit by bit, is a good idea? Maybe that way you can express it without having to extinguish it?

I hope something resonates here, Hermine. You are a great dream adventurer.

Love, Toko-pa

Thanks tokopa , for your quick dream response, i need some time to feel what your answer does bring up for me. One thing is clear to me I "temper " my aggression normally. My passion is okay to express but also not exaggerating just spontaneous..

Talking about third and fourth chakra responses which the healer Fawn Journeyhawk did in her talk from going from the third to the fourth as a changing process or transformation process in the world around us.

I read this afternoon about the earthquake in San Francisco. I looked at the map last night of travel Vision of the United States, because I wanted to look and search for the land for Fawn journeyhawk, who is leaving the reservation in Carson City.(near Reno)

Next time more about your dream and elements. IKE Hermine

Dearest Hermine,

This subject of transformation from 3rd to 4th chakra is fascinating to me. From the personal-power center up to the heart. I often feel this fire in my belly and think it might be more useful in the heart zone.

I wanted to bring you a dream today, but my unconscious decided not...instead I offer you a poem by a Canadian author named Linda Stitt.

I baited my pillow with perfume and dropped down my line into sleep, hoping to hook the unconscious and catch me a dream I could keep.

I thought I had snagged me a beauty but I was a moment too slow, it surfaced and shone like a jewel in the sun and then slipped back below.

Now somewhere down there in silence it glistens with watery light It's waiting to tell me a secret. I hope I get lucky tonight.

Linda Stitt from "What do you feed a Unicorn?", Sadhana Press 1983

Hi Tokopa, Thanks for the beautiful poem. Yes, third chakra or solar plexus (I , Me and My )to the 4th chakra, heartcentered and unity consiousness. I thought of Mt Shasta looking at the map two days ago and last night I dreamt about skiing from the top downwards.(I didn't ski after 1996, the last time with my ex husband and two sons) The dream was longer but it was interesting , I was not intending to dream about a mountain area, but it came up in the dream,just like a few months ago,when I was going downwards too on my ski's. Well and you know in the Netherlands we don't have those mountains. Aloha Hermine

Hi, Fellow Campmates..

Has it been a year?...

I guess so, and what a strange one it has been..

Sorry to have been truant... I have so enjoyed reading your posts, each one reminding me of the wonderful world of nocturnal escape we share...

I had a lenghty LD last week that prompted me to post and "check-in" with you all.

I am working in Evansville, Indiana for a few months on a project which has upset my sleeping patterns...

I find that only getting 7 hours sleep has reduced my overall dream time, and thus the LD count accordingly...

But, on the posotive side, I am storing up alot of frequent flier miles, in hopes another trip to Hawaii!!

zzzzZZZZZ( merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a Dream) z z z Joe

Row ,Row, row the boat ashore... Indiana! I visited Indiana twice, once in 1992 and once in 1998 when my eldest son was in Bloomington, we went to Evansville one day, Dayton and Indianapolis to the Elterjorg museum with a lot of Indian Artwork. What kind of work are you doing at the moment? Dreams are always interesting , I have dreamt about Indiana even before I went there and also after I had been there. One day we went to Cincinnati, I know there is a dreamlab, but I was with my two sons and didn't go to Milton Kramer who is working at this dreamlab. My nephew was in Decatur for one year, which is nearby Evansville too, he is working in Singapore right now. Maui seems far away after one year, I don't know when, but i hope to be ther again in the future, What about our plans with Stephen in Brazil for a lucid dreamcamp, what do you think about Lucid dreaming in Brazil, Beatrice, did you give suggestions to Stepen where to go in Brazil? Hope to hear from all of you who are interested to go there, I was once in Fortaleza at the conference of "Universidade Holistica International Unipaz, A transformacao pelo AMOR"

Aloha Hermine Last night I dreamt about walking on stairs to the top and giving food, even white linen and rice The linen must have been strange to eat! (maybe food of the "light" or spiritual food)

In another part of the drem i was walking naked and felt respected by others who were looking at me.

Hi Hermine and all

No, I didn't give Steven any information about places in Brasil to stay but I will check some places and write him soon. It will be great to have a meeting so near by to go.

There are two weeks I don't have any LD I think that this will change because I am feeling better now with my body and mind. Tonight in a NLD I was with a friend and she was giving classes to a group. She is not a painter but she put a canvas in front of her and start painting very fast. The picture was made of more or less 5 stripes in 45 degrees. Along those stripes there were some couple of birds and a couple of people. The couples are made as they were in a mirror. The representation of the man's couple was totally red and the birds was very beautiful colorful tropical birds. There were some colorful bumped spots all over too.

Tchau Beatrice

Hi Beatrice...

Perhaps a good place here in Brasil is Foz do Iguaçu... What do you think? There's a lot of good hotels there and of course, The Iguaçu Falls. It's one of the major turist points here in Brasil and the falls themselves are a waking and lucid dream at the same time!!!!

If you need any help or suggestion regarding this I'm at your service.

best dreams

mario

Hi, all you Maui lucids!

Nice to see you all online. I still think of all of you, of the days on Maui and can't believe, that it is already one year ago. It is so easy to jump into the scenery... But it is a long time ago, too. It is over and over good to remember the time and to exchange thoughts and experiences. Another mutual dream - meeting or an experiment in telepathy would be fine. But I don't want to make it up. I've decided to make a dream - diet and not to work too much on dreams for some time. I focus on starting up my practice. I don't write down dreams, but I had a short lucid some days ago. I'll see, how far I get with less effort in the LD thing. I'll keep you posted, but maybe not that frequently in the next few month.

Keep lucidity glowing

(coals are glowing darkness, aren't they?)

Yours Ralf

Hi Ralf,Beatrice and other dreamtimers,

I am back home from the ASD Boston conference We all had a good time! next time more, by the way did you see the dreamtelepathy contest on teh Internet? Hermine

Hi, Hermine

Nice to hear from you!

I did read about the ASD contest, but didn't take part.

hope to hear from your experiences there

Yours Ralf

Hi Ralf, Just one minute here to say it's nice to hear from you again, I hope you are willing to join the next Copenhagen conference in 2004. Or even to take part in the organization, the more people we have from all the European countries the lower the price can be! My dreams or experiences I share later when I have more time, hermine

Dear fellow dreambodies!

Excuse me for triple - posting, but I wanted to make sure, that most people get the chance to enjoy the second part of my Maui DreamCamp - Diary.

Try this link:

http://home.t-online.de/home/Ralf.Penderak/index.htm

and then click on " MauiDreamCamp"

Feel free to browse the site. There are other pictured stories, dream - related art and dream reports.

Have fun!

Yours Ralf

Hi Ralf, Thamks for your creative work and journey for all of us. I enjoyed seeing the pictures! I choose on subject now from teh conference. I went to a writing workshop with Betsy Davids from San Francisco and made a poem , a story and 3 haiku's. I start with the hailu's:

Mary(she was in my dreams at the conference,the head of my department in the Mental Institute where I work, or in reality she left last year September, but she still came in my dream, after the first night.) Mary loves magic from the top to the bottom in spring time flowers

The world radiates peace in war time this is illusion religion far beyond

who are sky spirits the palmtree and its birds diving in the see (ocean)

het on ge wis se kent vorm en kleur in overvloed van regen naar zon (Dutch) in English the unknown knows form and colour in abundance from rain to sunshine

My promise to myself for the dreamconference was "to surrender to TAO, which meant to me to stay open or expect the unexpected or be open for the unexpected" or what Betsy Davids said end with the negative into positive

We made up a beautiful poem or story with the whole group, but I didn't write it down, besy will collect all our peotry and we'll get this later from her.

Hope to hear from you again, next year Conference will be in Berkeley California, and in 2004 in Copenhagen, which will be organized by Olaf Hansen from Copenhagen and the European members.

Love Hermine

Dear Hermine

Glad you enjoyed the pictures. I did enjoy your poems, especially on Mary and the Spirits.

CU all in dreamland

Yours Ralf

Hi Ralf,

The asd or international organization of dreams will be in Copenhagen in Europe in 2004, who is interested in going there contact me!

I have forgotten to tell that I got the Award for the Most Telepathic Costume "The dragon" Hermine Mensink

Hermine

Okay Ralf, you knew the story, the others are gone and might not follow the ongoing Mauii group.

I had a dream on Mondaymorning the 17th of June. The Conference started on Saturday, Sundaymorning I went to the CyberDreamwork with Robert Bosnak, which was great! Also the lecture with Allan Hobson, Robert Bosnak, Deidre Barrett and Lee Irwin on Saturday evening "Why dreams matter" and on Sunday with Allan Hobson again. I was drawing his brains and when he told us about his stroke and his dreams about dinosaur, I transformed his brain(head) in a stegosaur, I gave this to him after his lecture. Later on during the week I went to Middleborough to the Indian land and in the museum I saw a book about dinosaur, what I didn't know was that a stegosaur meant "roof lizard" that was interesting to me becuse the lizard is in the medicine cards the animal for dreaming.

About the dream on Mondaymorning. I dreamt about my department in the Mental Institute where I am working in a part time job. The head of the department was present in the building , her name is Mary. (in reality she left my department last year September) A man with a goat (which was "odd' to me in the dream, so I realized I was dreaming) came next to our building and wanted to give his goat grass. I send him away and told him "don't eat the grass" Afterwards I enter the building again and I am talking with Mary about the Christmas party to arrange presents and poems. I look at the calendar and notice the calendar is on January, so I take of the paper of January, February , March, April, May and put the calendar on June. I show to her June and say it is June,with other words, we have time enough till December to do the preparation. Another thing I notice is the renovation of the office downstairs, there is space enough or "room to move" . (In reality the office is small and people of our team are complaining we need more space in the office.) Then I got another dream in which Phil King from Hawaii was in focus, he wanted me to take a picture of him, I did and another one when he was looking out of the window, on his request. I got to know Phil in Ashville in 1997, I can't explain why he wanted me to take pictures of him.

In day time we had a dream Tarot workshop, the woman I worked with said maybe it was not a goat, but a lamb, or maybe another explanation, maybe my youngest son she said who is leaving the house to go to the University in August and that I am no longer willing to take care of him or don't need to so so because he will live in another city in a studenthouse. In the morning I worked with James Villarreal with the dream an I had other associations, later on in the week the lawns next to the campus building had mushrooms which you were not allowed to eat, because they were poisonous. That could be an indication I warned "not to eat the grass"

So far, by the way in the Tarot workshop I pulled the Sun, and when we were allowed to pull a card from the real deck, I got by coincidence the sun card again!

Hermine

Dear Hermine!

Thanks for sharing your dreams. They are full of coincidences. I think that is why you are that good in telepathy. What is coincidence? Maybe a link between commonly separated events. Maybe more than our mind interpreting similarities as causality. Jung called it synchronicity.

You wrote, that you got lucid, but what did you do with lucidity?

"The Sun" is one of the most ecstatic Atu in Crowley's tarot deck (at least in my eyes). The twins with butterfly - wings are flying in(to) the sun.

I think I'll come to Copenhagen, too, in August.

Hope to CU soon

Yours Ralf

Hi Ralf, Hermine and all. I had a LD this morning. The dream was so dark that I realized it should be a dream. Then I remembered a painting that is in my mother´s house. It appears in my dream screen and I entered it. It is a very light painting with yelow old houses in a sunshine day. So I was there walking in thouse light streets tring to fly. It didn´t happened. A good looking black woman appears and I decided to embraced her and be nice to her to see If I could fly later. I ask her if she has something to say. She was nice and told me interesting things that I can´t remember now . Yes, after that I could fly but not for long. Beatrice

Just a quick message of friendship and affection from a Maui camper who's too damn busy these days to post regularly.

Love to all,

Alan T.

Hi, Beatrice and Alan!

I'm so glad to hear from you again! Did you look at the latest addition to my DreamCamp Diary?

Beatrice, there is a photo with you in the cane - field. As sweet, as you are in dreams...

Alan, I hope you are fine. I thought of you when I edited those pictures of the gazebo. I'm happy, that I didn't smoke for more than one year now.

I know, it is one year ago now and a lot of things happened since then in our lives. Feel free to drop in again occasionally. Maybe we will have another experiment some day.

Sweet lucids to all

Yours Ralf

Hi Ralf and all. Nice shot in the cane, thanks Ralf! I had a LD this morning where I was in a seat balance? with very huge ropes with another two women. One was acting in a film. I was having so much fun going so high towards blue leaves. I ask the actress if she was having fun too. She said not much because she was working, but she does feel nice sometimes at work. This thing in this LD that I could ask whomever, whatever, whenever I want helps a lot. Beatrice

I watched that Spirit film for the second time yesterday because of my animation work. For the second time I had a LD after watched it. It has fling cameras, nice animation and backgrounds.