Question: "Is synchronicity between dreams and real life possible?" Some years ago I used to keep, in addition to a normal dream journal, an illustrated dream journal with drawings and newspaper cuttings. After some time I preferred to make use of cuttings only. In many instances I noticed that, seemingly, chance helped me find the right picture.

1. One night I dreamt of a mirror with a golden frame. A voice told me: "In this mirror you'll be able to see everything you want to". I saw a braid of black hair only, etc. The next morning I planned to illustrate my dream with strips of golden paper to represent the mirror frame but I had no golden paper at home. I was outside and it was about 1 p.m.: all the shops were closed. I couldn't buy this type of paper. When I entered the entrance-hall of my house I found in my pigeon hole a golden paper advertising flyer that I immediately utilized to illustrate my dream.
2. When, after some months' hard training, I finally succeeded in doing my first lucid dream, I found in my pigeon-hole an advertising flyer of a correspondence school with the words in capital letters: "I MADE IT!".
3. One night I dreamt of an earthquake. The day after I was looking in some magazines for a picture on this subject, but how find an image of an earthquake? It wasn't easy. However I found in a magazine an advertising page on Sicily with a picture representing the remains of an ancient temple at Selinunte, I think. It was suitable enough for my purpose, so I cut it and pasted it on my journal. The morning after I woke and heard on the radio that there had been a serious earthquake in Sicily (I am Italian). Strangely, I had completely forgotten the cutting on my journal, so I thought: "I dreamt of an earthquake yesterday, but I can't regard it as being a precognition dream: all over the world earthquakes occur every day and in my dream nothing indicated Sicily". After some days I opened my illustrated dream journal and realized that I had not dreamt of an earthquake in Sicily, but I had illustrated my dream with a picture of Sicily that I had found by chance.
4. One night I dreamt of a snake-like girl, i.e. a girl whose body was like a snake's skin. The morning after I was looking for a picture to illustrate my dream. I was in the street by a newsstand and was tempted to buy a tattoing magazine where I could find an image of a tattoed girl, when I saw on a dustbin a magazine that somebody had thrown away. I took it, opened it and soon found the image of a tattoed girl (and it wasn't a tattoing magazine) suitable for representing the snake-like girl. Are they examples of synchronicity? I don't know, especially because I am rather skeptical about synchronicity, I don't believe in it, but maybe synchronicity believes a little in me, or at least in my illustrated dream journal. In conclusion, keeping an illustrated dream journal can be very useful in dream research, also for identifying possible metaphysical (?) phenomena related with man's unconscious, though a complete explanation of such facts seems to be very difficult. Best Regards, Roberto.

Hi Stephen, thank you for your reply! I can add some more examples of possible synchronicity.

1. One day, in the afternoon, I saw in a market place a black-haired man with olive complexion, an aquiline nose and a short black beard. I remembered that I had seen a man like this in a dream I had just that morning. In this dream I saw also an old film actor, Victor McLaglen (I'm not sure of the spelling), who used to play secondary roles in Western movies with John Wayne. Then I heard a record play Lou Reed's song "Take a Walk in the Wild Side". After supper I was watching TV, so I began changing quickly the TV channels with my remote control to look for McLaglen and Lou Reed's song. After some minutes I saw a film scene with Victor McLaglen and John Wayne. It is to be said that old Western movies are not so popular on Italy's TV today. Then I found a channel (my TV set can receive 20 channels only) with an old lady singing "Take a Walk on the Wild Side". I never heard this song on TV or radio, I know it because I bought a tape with Lou Reed's songs.
2. One night I dreamt of a friend of mine, a Cuban woman who lives in Italy. She held in her hands a big black & white picture representing a nun clad in a white habit. She was a young and beautiful black woman. My friend said: "It's my mother". The nun in the picture said in Latin: "Deus nobis est saepe semper" ("We often always (!!) have God"). The day after I met my friend and told her my dream. She replied: "Well, today is the first anniversary of my mother's death!". I knew that her mother had died some months earlier, but I didn't know the exact date of her death.
3. One night I dreamt that I was in a club of esoteric and metaphysical research, run by a girl that I know. I saw a poster advertising a course of "Meditation for cooks and 'monastrissimi'". I couldn't understand such a preposterous word. Three months later I had to go with this same girl to a Tibetan Buddhist Center to attend a lecture on buddhist meditation. Before leaving the club, my friend showed me a newspaper and--thinking that I wished to find a job abroad, which isn't true--invited me to have a look on the page of classified ads. The first ad I read said: "Head cook wanted for cruising ship". When we arrived at the Buddhist Center, we were given a flyer written in English introducing a subscription for helping the rebuilding of Tibetan monasteries destroyed during the Chinese invasion and the Cultural Revolution. Well, I found in real life three elements of a dream that I had three months earlier: meditation, cook and monasteries. Best regards, Roberto.

A while ago my new friend Enana and I experienced possible dream telepathy, this is what happened.

She contacted me on ICQ after having seen my bio in the forum. We had a great hours-long conversation on lucid dreams and took an immediate liking to each other. The next morning we were both online again and continued our conversation for a little while, then she left to go have a couple of hours more sleep. Meanwhile I decided to look for cool desktop wallpaper. Over the next hour or two I looked at a lot of different pictures, but two in particular stood out and I spent a long time contemplating each of them. The first depicted a beautiful sky near sunset or sunrise, with gorgeous colors. The second, which I set as my wallpaper, showed a line of crystalline spheres hovering over the sea, the perspective low to the water. I thought about how much I'd like to fly in such environments, especially the scene depicted in the second picture.

Later Enana sent me a message telling of three lucid dreams she had during that morning nap. She wrote, "#2 was fun, I was flying over the ocean, so low to the water that I was letting my feet drag through it. The sun was disappearing over the horizon, making everything glow orange and pink." This reminded me of the pictures I was looking at while she was dreaming, so I sent her a message telling of the coincidence and providing the URL's so she could have a look. Her response was, "Amazing!!! The first picture (of the sunset) looks just like the sky in my dream, and the second (the one you chose for wallpaper) is the same view I was seeing!!! Although, I have to say, it was much better being there!!"

I should note, it did not cross my mind while I was looking at those pictures to try to send images to her dreaming mind - rather, my motivation was to find images that might inspire me to fly in dreams. This would seem to be a spontaneous occurance of dream telepathy...or could it be coincidence? Perhaps I should compromise and call it synchronicity...

Adastra, that was a very interesting synchronicity! And, I really liked your idea of looking for wallpaper to inspire dream scenes...I have been away from the "lucid dreaming scene" for a little while now, but I'm back and ready for action, and I think I'll follow your lead and look for some cool wallpaper...

I also have a story, though it happened a long time ago, when I was about 8. I had a dream one night that I was eating catsup (never know which way to spell that word!) and nothing else. The next day at school I was sitting in the lunch room getting ready to put catsup on my hamburger when suddenly the top of the squeeze bottle somehow came off, covering my food in...what else? Catsup!

OK, I know it's not NEARLY as interesting at the above story, I just thought I'd add my own two cents!

Michelle

Hi, Michelle - glad you like the wallpaper idea. I've discovered that there is a lot of gorgeous wallpaper out there on the Web, certainly no shortage of dream-inspiring pictures for your viewing pleasure. Good to hear you're back in the lucid dream game! :)

I read some where that hypnotist can hypnotise someone on how they percieve time. I.E. a woman will think she's been doing something for an hour while she's only been doing it for ten seconds. Is it possible for the same effect to happen in lucid dreams if you try to manifest it? During a lucid dream why not stop time all together and have an infinitely long lucid dream, if it's possible. Anyone want to tell me what they think of my crazy idea.

Hi Mikey To elborate on your idea, i once read about a guy that after doing an extremely large amount of hallicinogens, expeirenced an intense level of time dilation, and eventually, a virtual discontinuity of physical time all together. The subject described that in this state of suspended being he existed for a number of years(or so he thought), within the realms of his mind, yet in all accutuality only a few hours of real time had passed. Assuming that the drugs mearly awakened an ability at controlling time that the subject already possessed, it might be possible to, with the proper mental conditioning and control, to reproduce that type of effect. ??? And you guys thought Mikeys idea was crazy :)

not a lucid dream but worth a mention ...

last night i dreamt that i saw someone doing akido - he was throwing another guy to the ground - probably about five to ten times. it reminded me of how graceful and flowing akido appears.

when i arrived at work this morning i was introduced to a new employee who just started today. he happened to be the aikdo instructor where i started to do aikdo about three years ago (i dropped out quite soon after).

a little strange i thought ...

rob

I don't post too often on this board, I but I figure this is worth mentioning. I am a student at a highschool, and my lucid dreams come in spurts.. but lately my regular dreams have gotten slightly odd, not in and of themselves, but how they relate to following incidences-- my two recent examples.

I dreamt one night of the vice principal, I never dream of her, yet this night I had, and she had a hair cut. 2 days after I meet with her for the 2nd time in my highschool carreer and probably 6th time ever seeing her in highschool.

I dreamt of a girl in my neighborhood whom I have seen once previos in my lifetime. The following day, I see her. These dreams were in the last 2 weeks, I never believed in that hocus pocus stuff in dreams but if the pattern continues I may change my theory on why people dream.

John

John,

What was your previous theory about why people dream? What is your new, evolving theory? Are the theories mutually exclusive? To me, it seems like I have many different types of dreams, with different "purposes."

I want to validate your experience that dreams can indeed be precogitive. I have experienced that beyond a shallow of a doubt (seen things in great detail in dreams shortly before ever seeing them in waking life).

Nibbana

About "Tempus Fugit": "Controlling Time in LDs"-

Stopping real time in your Lucid Dreams means making the Lucid Dream last far more than the time passed by in the physical world. Like having a dream that last a few minutes in real time, while you might experience it as a few days in the dream. By doing this can you enjoy the dream scape a lot more, since you can spend days in the dream while it really just last a few minutes. Robert Monroe even reported experiencing 100 years in a 2 hours OOBE. But to experience this might be difficult, little research have been done on this area. And those that experience it don't consciously try to have them. Still, there are a few techniques you might try. First of all, set your intention to stop real time. Have that intention in mind while having your Lucid Dream. Picture yourself being in the dream for days, maybe even weeks before you wake up. You might try to saying out loud: "Stop time now!" You can try looking at your clock in the dream, and imagine that the clock slow down and stop. You might try to expect the dream to last for days. You might try visualize two pyramids, connected at their bases counterrotating. And maybe visualize multiple pyramids rotating inside each other all rotating. This is something worth going for, as it may give you incredible long Lucid Dreams.

My first shared dream:

When I was a kid I shared a bedroom with both my sisters. One morning when I was eleven I woke up from the most amazing dream. The amazing thing was the setting: I'd never actually been there, but in the dream I felt certain that the family was returning to a familiar place, a beach with surreally bright blue sky, bright blue water and bright yellow sand.

My ten-year-old sister had a central role in the dream so I started telling her about it as soon as I saw that she was awake. To our mutual astonishment she had just been dreaming about an identical place, with the same feeling of having been there before.

We reminisced for a while: Wasn't it beautiful? It was so warm and nice, the sky and water so blue and the sand such a bright yellow that it didn't look real'. "But my dream ended with a scary part," I told her. "You were at the end of a muddy dirt road at the top of a steep cliff. The mud was slippery and you were slipping toward the cliff, and the whole family was trying to pull you back."

"At the end of my dream," she told me, "I was slipping down a steep muddy embankment between two roads. But I was all by myself."

Thanks, Joy, that's a groovy dream report! I'd love to read more of your mutual dreams...

Dear Joy

Thanks for posting this dream. And thanks to Adastra for encouraging you to do so. There is nothing much to say, but these experiences are signposts to a wider realm of dreams. You can imagine, that I'm keen to hear of such dreams, this is what the Maui - experiment is about. Please post more of these mutual dreams.

Yours Ralf

That mutual dream at age 11 was the first of occasional psi experiences throughout adolescence and young adulthood, mostly via dreams - either telepathic or precognitive - and never anything useful or significant like finding lost children or predicting plane crashes. Just enough to keep me fascinated, and my mind open to many possibilities. One precognitive dream did change my life in that my curiosity in pursuing it over the course of a year to its fulfillment led me to the man I'd marry and the place I've lived in now for 27 years. I had two mutual dreams with my husband: in one we each dreamed that a fat woman we knew was sleeping in the bed between us, and in another we both dreamed we lived on a ranch with the house on a hill and the fields all around us below.

Through the years of raising a child, getting educated and working as a scientist, I was focused on practicalities and psi experiences seemed to be a lost aspect of my youth. My next mutual dream was my first intentional lucid dream, soon after my son started college:

October 12 2000

In consensual reality, friend Fred came to visit unannounced, as he does about once a year. Over dinner he was telling a funny story about a co-worker with a terribly sincere, totally unfounded belief in angels, within which he launched into an amusing rant: "I don't believe in any of that crap! Don't talk to me about angels, don't talk to me about crystals, don't talk to me about ESP, don't talk to me about UFOs, don't tell me you used to be a pharaoh in ancient Egypt'." I share his skepticism in general and didn't want to interrupt his funny story by telling him something he didn't want to be told, so I didn't tell him about my own experiences with dream telepathy and precognition many years ago.

That night I tucked myself into bed, with Fred settled into the adjoining guest room, and read a chapter from Carlos Castaneda's book The Art of Dreaming. I'd just gotten it out of the library the day before. I'd mentioned to a friend that I sometimes have lucid dreams, and he informed me that some people seriously cultivate that ability as a means of expanding their awareness and mentioned Castaneda's book as an example.

I read Carlos' description of how he tried for months before managing to realize within a dream that he was dreaming. I'd never tried to have a lucid dream; it was just something that happened to me once in a while, maybe five or six times a year. It was fun. Usually I went flying. "I bet I could do it tonight," I thought. And I turned out the light and went to sleep.

Early in the morning I found myself dreaming. I don't remember now the moment of becoming lucid, but it was quite clear and I was delighted to have achieved it by my own intent. I was in my bedroom, and I went out into the hall and saw my calico cat sitting in the doorway to the living room. I paused and marveled at how incredibly vivid she appeared, every long hair visible in detail, her golden eyes scintillating. "It seems even more real than ordinary reality," I thought.

I walked on into the living room, fascinated by the feeling of moving about within a dream. I found to my surprise that the room was full of people milling around, all dressed up as if it were some kind of fancy party - maybe a wedding reception. In reality I'd never hosted any such event; I live way out in the desert where people are scarce and dressing up means putting on the pair of jeans with the least number of holes. I wanted to enjoy the feeling of lucidity undistracted, so I went out the door into the front yard and spent a few moments enjoying the vividness of the natural world before waking up.

I tiptoed around the house, quickly dressing for work and going outside without waking Fred. I'd driven as far as the front yard when Fred, wakened by my car starting, came out to say goodbye. I got out of my car. Fred looked a little dazed. "I had the strangest dream," he said. "It was so vivid. I dreamt that your house was full of people."

"I dreamed that too," I said. "They were all dressed up."

"Yeah, they were all wearing their best clothes! Like some kind of fancy party or something," Fred said.

"Like maybe a wedding party," I said.

"Yeah, yeah, it could have been a wedding." His face clouded over and he shook his head as if to clear it. "Huh! Strange."

"I used to have the same dream at the same time as other people sometimes," I told him, "but it's been a long time. Cool! Well, I'd better go. It was great seeing you! Keep in touch, okay?" And I left him to assimilate the experience in whatever way he might.

Joy

Hi, Joy

Impressive report!

I much liked the passage re the cat. I had an LD with a "more than real" cat, too. It is wonderful, how ecstatic experiences can get in LD. Surprising, that a sceptic tells his dreams, that he even remembers them. When did he show up next time? ;->

Come to think of it, he missed his annual visit this year - I haven't seen him snce then! Hope I didn't scare him away!

Anyway, that was the start of my current era and I'm happy to report that, while still rare, "psi" dreams have increased along with lucid ones. I've had a few telepathic/precognitive dreams since then including three or four mutual ones. I don't want to venture too far into telling things that are sort of personal, but here's one last funny little one that I'm willing to recount:

Along with getting to hike all day and sleep in the mountains in the course of my work, I also occasionally get to sleep near a friend and colleague who talks in his sleep. During a waking spell on one such occasion, I remembered that I had to get groceries the next day. I drifted back into light sleep and dreamed vividly that that I was looking in my refrigerator to see what I already had. It was very realistic: three-week-old tortillas and everything. Just then my friend mumbled, "I found your sunglasses." We both woke up and he looked at me and said, "Oh, that wasn't you that lost your sunglasses! Well, if you lose them, look in your refrigerator." And he went back to sleep.

In the morning I reminded him what he'd said and asked him what that was all about. He said someone had called him the day before asking if he'd seen her sunglasses anywhere, and he was dreaming that he was looking for them. He said, "The refrigerator didn't make sense - I sort of had the feeling that came from somewhere else!"

Good luck, Maui dreamers and all, Joy

Thanks for report and wishes

Hi, I haven't posted anything in quite a while and I've never posted anything in this section.

I often have dreams of things that seem to happen the following day or week, but I have always just chalked it up to coincidence. Every once in a while I have a dream in which I am convinced that I've had a precognitive dream. These are very few and far between, but are usually right on. I searched my current dream diary for any entries within the last year that had a firm statement that the dream was precognitive. Over the last year there has been only one. It was actually a single recording for a recurrent dream. The entry is for Tuesday, July 24th.

I was several stories up and standing just outside the sliding glass door of a balcony/patio area of a strange apartment. I knew this apartment was in New York City. I heard a plane flying overhead. Then I saw it flying low. I knew what was about to happen and started calling people out to see. I told them that I had kept dreaming this over and over again. Never did I actually see the impact. It was always out of view... obstructed by the building I was in. I could hear the crash and feel the impact and the rumbling as the plane went by. I remembered experiencing this scene several times in dreams. I started screaming that we needed to warn people. I kept screaming, "Because I dreamt it!" I was convinced I had had a series of precognitive dreams and did not realize this was the dream happening again. I yelled, "Call 9-1-1!" a couple times and woke myself up saying it. I did not become lucid. Over the next couple weeks I was obsessed with the idea of large planes slamming into large buildings. I mentioned it several times to my wife.

This is not the only dream with me in NYC. This is odd since I have never been to NYC. I have not dreamt of NYC since that entry. (I've dreamt of Tokyo though and I've never been there either.)

Anyway, I debated whether I should share this with anyone. I don't care what people think; I know the dream was precognitive. It was a certainty in the dream and it is a certainty now.

The words "Because I dreamt it!" were once used to get my mother to stop her car in traffic to avoid a fatal car crash. She listened because we had just been speaking of the frequency precognitive dreams within our family.

Jason,

Excellent. Thaks for reporting this.

Why is science so slow to do the intensive research necessary to verify precognitive and telepathic dreams? That they're rare, infrequent and difficult to detect is no excuse. If this were physics instead of psychology we'd be building huge arrays of detectors in underground salt mines.

Yours for the cosmic rays of the dream world,

Joy

Hey Jason, that runs in my family too but only for the girls- my mom, big sis, and me all have precognitive dreams. For example, my mother and I both dreamt of our father's death before it happened. That was the only time i ever woke up crying. My sister dreams of her friend the night before she visits unexpectedly or she calls. She also dreams of our relatives funeral and a few weeks later they die. One time just a few months ago, I dreamt that i was looking out the window and i saw this big asteroid coming straight towards earth it was moving so fast and i just remember thinking Oh my God it's the end of the world and i said aloud in my dream something like "God Save Us" and i think the thing hit earth but i was ok and still alive so i was happy but confused then i woke up. That same day i turned on the radio and scanned the radio station but i stopped when i heard "It's the end of the world as we know it" you know that song by REM and I instantly rembered my dream and said aloud to myself "that is so not funny" and just hoped this wasn't some kind of prophetic dream or a cognitive dream like the ones i've had before. But i just laughed it off and said it's just a coincidence. Then about one or two days later, I was watching my fav. show when i decided to change the channel while it was on commercials. I put it on Fox and they were showing the 10 o'clock news. They went to a different reporter that had some special news and he was standing next to a screen that had a picture of an asteroid spinning and I kind of froze and listened carefully as he explained that scientist just discovered an asteriod heading straight for Earth. I suddenly felt fear spread throughout my body and i got so scared that tears began to come out of my eyes but then he said that it wouldn't come in contact with Earth until the year 2082 or something like that so I calmed down a little but still was a little shocked by the timing of my dream and the discovery. Weird huh! Well, bye for now.

Fellow Dreamer Amalia

Amalia,

Other sleep-related phenomena seem to run in my family. We walk, we talk... So how about your family? Any sleepwalkers?

Sorry I haven't wrote back Jason. I have been kind of busy. Plus I can only write when i am visting my brother because that is when i can get online without time limits and stuff. But I am moving in w/ him and I will probably buy a computer of my own soon. So anyways about sleep related phenomena:

My sister used to sleepwalk when I was a baby. My mother told me she used to get up in the middle of the night and fix me a bottle or she would go into the bathroom and take off all her clothes just to put them on again and when she would bump into a wall she would say things like "Sorry Sir" or "Excuse me Mam". Ha ha that is so funny. But one night my mom accidently woke her up as she was sleepwalking. My mother thought she was awake. They say u should never wake up a person sleepwalking but nothing bad happened to her. She was just very confused and didn't know what was going on. That was the last time she sleptwalk.

As for talking in our sleep I don't think we do that but my best friends family does do that. She said one night she woke up to her sister screaming "Erica, there's a ghost right above you!", "Erica , don't move there's a ghost above you!". Then she realized her sister was just talking in her sleep. But also they talk to each other in their sleep. They can have a whole conversation in their sleep. Except I think one of them is awake or else how would they remember. One night that I slept over there I heard her older brother talking in the next room. I thought he was awake but he was actually asleep. I don't remember exactly what he said but I think it had to do with some date with a girl. Who has to go through diaries when they spill their guts in their sleep ha ha.

Well I hope this helps u Jason. I will try to write again soon if I get the chance.

Amalia

OK, I had another dream with precognition as a dream element. This dream also involves airplanes. I had the dream a couple hours ago.

In the dream I was passing by an airport, I think Phoenix Sky Harbor, in a strange vehicle. It may have been a van or SUV. There was a woman that I do not recognize who was driving and someone else in the back. I was in the front passenger seat. I looked toward a plane which was coming in for landing. I remember thinking the plane looked a little odd. The one wing I could see was colored a bright color but now I cannot remember what color. The plane tilted as it came in. I tried to get the driver's attention, but they were too busy driving to look where I was pointing. My view of where the plane was coming down became obscured-- I think by the control tower and a restaurant that pilots go to. I see flames and smoke from behind these structures. I describe the events to the driver and she sais that this sounds just like the dreams she's had. The passenger in the back sais she remembers talking to the driver about the dreams.

At no time in the dream did I become lucid. Despite the horrible circumstances I felt no real emotion and felt no urgency to stop the crash. This plane crash dream felt more like a strange thing that happened on the way to work, but since precognition is a dream element I thought I should share it.

Hello all- I just discovered this thread and find it to be most interesting. Along with my recent spike in LD's, I have had quite an increase in precognitive dreams- at least partially. First, the other night I had a non LD where I was responsible to get a friend somewhere, but she was acting erratically and drunk, and was smoking a cigarrete where I felt it was rude to do so. I wanted her to leave this place and go home to bed, but the theme of the dream (as it often is) was of frustration: she would not leave. Anyway, the next day a close friend came over and told me that this SAME GIRL had come to her new apartment as she was putting furniture together. She was frustrated at taking several hours to put a bed together, and desperately wanted her to leave, but she had been drinking and did not want to force her to drive. And then- she went into the kitchen and smoked a cigarette, which seriously pissed off my nonsmoking friend. Very strange. The next night I dreamt (non LD) I was hiking somewhere in New Jersey, and came across a small salamander on a leaf. It was blue with yellow dots. I then woke up and thought how strange it was for me to come across a salamander, but thought it was cool since so many of my dreams lately have had animals in them. The next morning I was reading Bryson's "A Walk in the Woods" and came across quite a long and detailed passage describing the many different species of salamanders in one national park along the Appalachian Trail. I immediately remembered the dream and was so excited to have experienced this "synchronicity". I also may or may not have had a shared dream. It became very important for me to ask someone their feelings that they may or may not have for me. In fact, a bit obsessive for several weeks. Finally I decided to try dream communication, especially since this person is very in touch with his dreams and is a student of LDing. So, I tried and had what may be success (I never asked if he shared the dream, and in fact have not even spoken to him). I asked him without speaking if there was ever a chance of us being together. He did not speak, but instead offered me a beautiful plate full of freshly cut and prepared fruits and vegetables. I saw this as a crystal clear symbol that he will only be able to feed my spirit by supporting my spiritual explorations into mysticism, dreaming, and the like. I felt supremely satisfied upon awakening even though I have had no evidence that this dream was shared. I am grateful for this dream. Tracy

Hi, Jason!

Nice to hear from you again!

I wonder, if there has been any confirmation for what you experienced in your dream. And I find the discussion in the car interesting: What if a part of you remembers dreams you have already had (maybe month or years ago), which you consciously never remembered or simply forgot and which may have been precognitive?

Just a thought...

You dream lucid quite often. Why not try to speak to the characters one more time? Would be interesting for me, what you find out.

Tracy

Haven't seen your lines for long. What did you do to increase your LD frequency? Your example seems to add to the observation, that emotion is ESP's fuel.

"The next morning I was reading Bryson's "A Walk in the Woods" and came across quite a long and detailed passage describing the many different species of salamanders in one national park along the Appalachian Trail."

Did you find a description close to your dream - salamander?

"So, I tried and had what may be success"

Thanks for being that open, Tracy. It feels good to see, that your share very personal things, too. I sometimes do it. But that is nothing which can be demanded in an open forum as this is. One of my most impressive ESP - experiences emerged from a very personal and sexual influenced situation. Close bonds seem to make anomalous perception more likely. Were you lucid in that "induced" dream?

I think it is good, to share extraordinary dreams, but please remember, that lucidity is our focus here. Lucid dreams might provide a good platform for telepathic etc experiments. Maybe Stephen will put up an experiment on this some time.

For everybody interested in this subject I recommend the following ASD project:

http://asdreams.org/psi2002/

Stephen is going to be presenter there, too.

Hope to hear from you again, soon.

Yours Ralf

Hi, Tracy -

Great posting and absolutely relevant to the topic of lucidity. Thanks! I, too, found that my frequency of telepathic and precognitive dreams went way up along with my frequency of lucid dreams. Some of the "psi" dreams are lucid, some not. It seems to me that there may very well be a connection - that something about developing lucid dreaming ability may also predispose the mind to be able to pick up information without constraints of space and time.

I'd love to see LI research whether this is statistically verifiable - that psi dreams increase in frequency along with LDs or that frequent LDers have more psi dreams. Meanwhile it would be great to hear from more people as to whether they've found this to be true.

Stephen has done some great research using lucid dreams to conduct remote viewing experiments - that is, you become lucid in the dream, remember the task to see what's inside that sealed envelope that's been given you, and within the dream you go and open it and look. Results were impressive. He told us about this at "Dream Camp." Fascinating!

I've had a few lucid dreams lately in which I dreamed something and then read it the next day, and especially valued it as guidance and encouragement because the topics were of a spiritual nature. I take any psi experience as guidance and encouragement because it opens that door of possibilities....

Maybe tomorrow I'll post a really funny precognitive dream from last week which was absolutely trivial and absurd in its content! - right now I'm supposed to be going to work but I couldn't resist this topic.

Joy

Hello Ralph and Joy and everyone, Nice to read your words. Ralph, I was not lucid in the salamander dream, nor was the dream salamander exactly as described in the book, but I thought it may fall under the umbrella of synchronicity. I think that the spike in my LD's had a lot to do with wonderful discussions about lucid dreaming when I was visiting friends in California. It simply became an intrinsic priority for me, and even in the last few days I have had a few moments of lucidity, although not for long. I was actually in Atlantic City taking my clients gambling (developmentally disabled/mentally ill adults) and found that the uncomfortable bed made for light sleep, and therefore easier to at least remember even non-lds due to frequent awakenings.

I felt compelled to share that personal experience with the forum about the possible shared dream. Telling you about it was freeing for me and I am very appreciative of you taking the time to ponder with me. Even though it may not have been truly "shared" with the other person, I am grateful for my mind letting me know the reality of the situation. Also, I thought it was appropriate considering the title of this thread. It was, by the way, lucid, but it did not occur to me to pursue something new or change anything about my scenery.

Joy, hello! is a "psi" dream short for a psychic dream?? Not certain what is meant by that term. I am curious to know what Dr. LaBerge's personal opinion and/or experience is with this issue. I suppose it is something very personal that may be looked at with even more scientific scrutiny than simple lucid dreams. Tough to get empirical data, right? As for me, I do not think that I am particularly gifted at all, but nonetheless it's quite amazing that there does seem to be a correlation between LD's and (LD and nonLD) synchronicity. Very interesting and I look forward to more discussion. Wish I could meet you guys!!! Tracy

Hi! Hmmm, lemme look.... yeah, Webster here says that's pretty much what psi means and how it probably originated.

Okay, here's the dream I said I might tell: an outstanding example of just how trivial a "psi" dream can be. One night last week in the course of a dream, someone close to me handed me an object (I forget what) that had a big wet glob of snot on it! Ewww! I felt it first, and then I looked to confirm my impression. I could hardly believe it. How disgusting!

That day I found a couple of stranded motorists way out on a remote dirt road where I was working, and they handed me a folded piece of note paper with a phone number they were hoping I could contact. I unfolded it for a better look and there was a big wet glob of snot on it! Ewww! I felt it first, and then I looked to confirm my impression. I could hardly believe it. How disgusting!

Then I remembered my dream and all at once I was totally delighted, walking on air the rest of the day, just so tickled that the benevolent universe would take such an absurd opportunity to demonstrate the permeability of space and time.

Okay, maybe it happens to you all the time, but this was the first time in dream or waking life that anyone (adult) ever handed me something with a big wet glob of snot on it. I think the man wrote the note without knowing the woman had blown her nose on that paper -- she looked embarrassed and took it back from me, mumbling an apology. Excellent synchronicity if you ask me! (Turned out I had just the wrench they needed too.)

"A Walk in the Woods" is a great book and salamanders are slimy too. Keep up the good dreaming!

Joy

Ralf, quite often dream characters will talk to me about their dreams or ask me about mine. I think they are there to help me remember my dreams and that I'm dreaming. I usually miss this dream sign.

"You dream lucid quite often. Why not try to speak to the characters one more time? Would be interesting for me, what you find out. " --Sounds like a great idea. I'll attempt it this week. If I can remember. It seems that I can usually only remember an intention during mid-day naps. I haven't been able to nap in months. My memory is usually very faulty in night time lucids.

Hi, fellow dreamers

Joy, somehow your definition didn't appear. Or didn't you want it to appear? "Psi" is defined in the Concise Oxford Dictionary as: "twenty - third Greek letter ...; parapsychological factors or faculties collectively."

"psi dreams increase in frequency along with LDs or that frequent LDers have more psi dreams. Meanwhile it would be great to hear from more people as to whether they've found this to be true."

I'm not very sure. But when I started to care for LDs, I had to remember and write down more dreams, than usual. Maybe it is this, that increased the chance to find synchronicities. Most of my claimed psi dreams were non - lucid, I don't remember a psi - LD spontaneous. I'll look it up, when I have the time. I took the time: I had two dreams with possible ESP in 2002 so far, both were non lucid. In 2001 I had six dreams with possible anomalous perception, some of them quite close. Some were DSA2 and DSA1, but none lucid. In 2000 I had called two dreams ESP - like, one of them was with tacit lucidity.

The statistical basis is weak. My impression is, that there is no correlation of lucidity and possible psi elements. But this must not be the case for systematically studies including experiments in anomalous perception using LD state.

Tracy,

"I think that the spike in my LD's had a lot to do with wonderful discussions about lucid dreaming when I was visiting friends in California."

Maybe everyone should join dream groups to enjoy the effect of social reinforcement.

"As for me, I do not think that I am particularly gifted at all"

That how I see myself, too. Dreams are my gate to these gifts.

"Wish I could meet you guys!!!"

That would certainly be fine to have, maybe once a month a meeting of all forum participants in a lovely location and just socialise, talk, have fun etc. When I think of the 993 registered users, it would be a really great party...

Joy,

"Okay, maybe it happens to you all the time"

Even if I (as a nurse) had the dream, I would react, as you did. If that is not psi, what then?

"Then I remembered my dream and all at once I was totally delighted, walking on air the rest of the day, just so tickled that the benevolent universe would take such an absurd opportunity to demonstrate the permeability of space and time."

That is very well put, again. Thanks for sharing your experiences and thoughts.

It is said love permeates all and everything and transcends space and time. Maybe love is the reason, the profound basis and /or the effect of what we label with psi. So your dream and waking experience - as snotty as it is - might show an aspect of love... ;->

Jason!

So you have quite helpful dreamcharacters. How comes?

"My memory is usually very faulty in night time lucids."

That shows another advance of doing morning naps (or afternoon naps). But for me the afternoon thing doesn't work.

Looking forward to your next posts

CU all in dreams awake

Yours Ralf

One morning I was waiting for my ride to show up at my apartment to pick me up for work. I fell asleep and had a dream that he showed up.(non-lucid) I got up and went outside. I went to his truck and got in. I looked down at the center console next to the stick shift. There was a full package of chocolate donuts sitting there, unopened.

I woke up for real, when he showed up to pick me up. I hopped in the truck and my jaw dropped open and my eyes bulged when I saw a full package of donuts, unopened exactly as in my dream. He noticed my reaction and ended up giving them to me, he probably thought I was hungry. I didn't tell him what happened, just pretended that I was hungry and ate the donuts.

I thought of posting this dream a few days ago, I have mixed feelings about precognition. It might just be possible that in the minds countless constructions of possible scenarios that it is likely to be "right on the money" at certain times. This dream also was high in the realm of expected possibilities, how often do people eat donuts in the morning, after all? Quite often. I wrote it off as coincidence. But hey, ya never know.

Okay, time for a little cynicism to enter this happy fray. I've followed the thread on this page with interest, but unfortunately with much head-shaking as well. While I hold out every hope that in dreams we are experiencing shared moments of a universal cosmic consciousness no doubt based in love, and I'll be first in line for the Transcendental Oneironaut Instruction Manual when Stephen finally writes it, it seems that you might, despite Ralph's gentle nudges, be straying from some excellent topics while focusing on clairvoyance.

Ryan, your last post ' "This dream also was high in the realm of expected possibilities, how often do people eat donuts in the morning, after all? Quite often. I wrote it off as coincidence.' ' could not have been said better by Carl Jung himself! Perhaps you did indeed experience a simple coincidence, but be thrilled at how you reacted to those doughnuts, and the shades of reality that may have been lifted by associating them with your dream. But you are absolutely correct ' there is so much going on in any person's given day that routine events like doughnuts in the morning can certainly be experienced in dreams and in reality at very close intervals.

Because we all move in a world of infinite stimuli, and are generally buried in countless images (even snot!) on a daily basis, it can be very easy to associate a past dream with a current event because they shared some minute circumstance. This could certainly be precognition, but it could also be a symptom of all of your outstanding (and statistically unique) powers of dream recall. If you are able to grab hold and categorize the countless chaotic events you're experiencing every night (each and every one of them directly related to your ' or perhaps some else's ' waking life), you should expect that things will happen during the day that you can relate to your dreams. And I won't even mention the influence of déjà vu, and the chance that you might never have had the dream you thought you did at all! Be very careful about precognition. When it is not perfectly precise, it is easily debunked.

Also, of the topics this page covers, precognition seems to lag in terms of excitement, potential depth, and relevance to lucidity to the other three, which are more specific to the immediate experience of our dreams. What about synchronicity? I'd bet that each of you has experienced "someone else's" dream at least once, perhaps even while lucid. Isn't the idea that with lucid dreaming we can discover and explore cosmic consciousness, and the evolutionary leap that might accompany it, much more intriguing than thinking, always in retrospect, that you successfully predicted an event? There might be a whole lot more room for exploration here, and I can tell from your postings that each of you is a potential font of examples for it. Any chance you might want to back away from the psychic friends network for a time?

Peter

P.S. Stephen: if you're reading, we would all love it if you would weigh in, refute, or compound all this with some of your findings and wisdom.

I was just attempting to contribute to the current trend of the conversation by posting a dream I had that was relative to the subject being discussed at the time. I am unfamilar with synchronicity, not sure what you're after with that topic, feel free to enlighten me. The dream I posted was the only one I ever had of that nature. You assume my only focus is worrying over whether or not I predicted a real life event in a dream.You couldn't be more wrong.It was a one time event some 12 years ago that I never even conciously intended. Also, I am not here to have other people validate or invalidate my beliefs but to discuss the mysteries of human awareness with people who are understanding and like minded. I have been deprived of such conversation for a long time and will jump at whatever topic comes up that I have an experience relative to.

I am already given to the power that rules my fate. And I cling to nothing, so I will have nothing to defend. I have no thoughts, so I will see. I fear nothing, so I will remember myself. Detached and at ease, I will dart past the Eagle to be free.

Peter,

You make some interesting comments on the flaws of drawing out retrospective predictions from our dreams. But why donsn't the same kind of critical thinking apply to subjects such as lucid dreamings alleged potential for exploring cosmic counciousness and the supposed evoltionary leap that may accompany it?

I know that many of us have in are dreams experienced unusual states of being or counciosness but does that really mean that they are genuine trancendental or spiritual in nature? Could it more simply be that are minds are interpreting what we assume, in the waking world, such states could or would be like and in are internal worlds where the everyday laws of physics don't apply, providing us with a 'wish forefillment' experience. An entertaining light show with extra thrills and spills?

For me, the jump between Lucid Dreaming as an interesting psychological tool, to precognition machine or transcendental device is a bit of a leap. It reminds me of the volunteer regiment of scientist who during the second world war sent such positive reports of their shooting practice back to their commander that he enthusiasticaly determined to observe their skill. He was however dissapointed when he saw that they where first of all firing their rifles and only when the shots had hit the general target walking up to the bullet holes and drawing bulls eyes around them!

I also think (pardon me for going on a bit)that one interpretation of the poem by coleridge, in which he describes dreaming of a buetifull rose and then waking with the rose on his pillow, could be that in order to prove that dreaming lucidly is of genuine developmental significance to humanity or even just one man, the dreaming community or man, will envitably not only have to bring tangible skills back from the dream world but also provide evidence that we/he has done so. And so far it appears that the only 'rose' that would be excepted as having been 'brought back' is Laberge's evidence that the lucid dream is a state of counciousness. The rest is surely anecdotale speculation?

Dream on

Rob:

You are correct in suggesting that the same kind of critical thinking should apply to the other subjects of this forum, and to lucid dreaming as a whole. Whenever I have the rare opportunity to discuss lucid dreaming at length with someone who cares, I usually try to insert the following phrase somewhere:

"Maybe there's no such thing as lucid dreaming. Maybe we're just dreaming that we're awake in the dream, and dreaming that we're influencing its course.'

I personally do not believe this, but to ignore the possibility that our brains might invent a state of mind to appease our spiritual desires is mentally stifling, and perhaps dangerous. We have to look at this stuff from all sides in order to completely understand it, and to avoid the traps that invariably accompany blind faith. As you noted, a forum in which we draw bulls-eyes after shooting teaches us nothing.

This of course applies to the other subjects listed in the tab for this forum. However, by discussing all sides of things like synchronicity space and time as they relate to lucid dreaming, we are indirectly discussing the psychological potentials of lucid dreaming. And that is very cool. To focus on precognition alone, with a nod to the other subjects only occasionally, might be fun, but we're not unveiling any truths (or absurdities) about lucid dreaming. We're just chatting about our possible brushes with seeing the future. That" s a fine thing to discuss at any of thousands of other sites dedicated to clairvoyance and ESP, but it simply isn't helping us become better lucid dreamers.

Your image of Coleridge's rose is excellent, and, I hope, actually points to the true purpose of these forums. Currently the "evidence" of our dream experience is indeed anecdotal, and based on gossamer memories that we could very well be accidentally inventing as we describe a dream the next morning! But what those memories represent is a moment of perfect reality to the dreamer, a personal trip into a different world, a separate consciousness, a place that might just remind us about what we really are, where our true spiritual potential lies. This evidence is by nature subjective, deeply personal, and can only be divined anecdotally until Stephen invents a Novadreamer that works both ways.

So, though everything we discuss here is potentially conjecture, it might serve we dreamers better to have that conjecture focus on an experience that might improve our skills, or our understanding when we awake in a dream, rather than reminiscing images that may or may not have been clairvoyant, but without a doubt had little to do with the experience of lucid dreaming.

In other words: let the conjecture fly, but fling it at clearly painted targets that represent what we do not know about lucid dreaming.

Peter

Ryan:

Synchronicity is, I think, a rock album from 1983 by the Police. Synchroneity is probably what we're really discussing here (somebody please correct me if I'm wrong; I haven't read any of the older postings, especially Joy's stuff) and it is the state of being synchronous, or two things happening at the same time. I imagine that this can have many significant aspects in LD's, but perhaps the most intriguing to me is the sharing of dreams with others.

One reason I was hoping for more discussion on this topic was simply so that I could hear more about it, and see if anyone else ever experiences being inside someone else's dream. I'm sure someone out there (Joy? Ralf?) could better describe synchroneity as it relates to LD'ing.

Peter

Sychronicity was a term used by Carl Jung to describe the experience of having a waking life experience that was previously dreamt; like a deja vu feeling.

Although the donut experience may seem trivial, I don't view precognition in dreams as such. The donut experience points to the complex dynamics of consiousness across space and time. How can we slice up dreaming into lucid dreaming (which is more important?) and precognitive dreaming (which is not as important?).

There is no hierarchy of dreaming (with lucid dreaming being the higher road)...it's all inter-meshed. We'll never get at an understanding of lucid dreaming with a positivist framework because that very agenda shapes the outcome. We'll never get at the "absolutes," the "truths" of lucid dreaming because maybe there are none.

So, can we benefit from asking different questions?....because proof died out with the modernists, or should have.

What's the point in working with our dreaming (lucid or not) if we aren't somehow bringing it into our "waking" lives and doing something with it? It's fun to have a precognitive donut dream but it's enriching to engage a series of precognitive dreaming that I can use to understand my life, engage in my life more conciously, and to better my life.

Otherwise lucid dreaming becomes navel gazing.

Precognitive dreaming is not about some flaky New Age psychic babble. Intuition and precognitive dreaming is just as much a part of us as our other senses...we just don't live in a society that values it...like society doesn't value dreaming.

Peter, how do you know that focusing on precognition in dreaming cannot facilitate lucid dreaming? What's being suggested here by some is that these two experiences may go hand-in-hand...feeding each other.

Karen

Hi, lucid friends

A very interesting discussion

I always thought I knew, what lies in the word "synchronicity". I thought it being two events, connected meaningful and non - causal.

M.L. von Franz (pupil of Jung) writes in "Man and his Symbols" p. 211, [translation from the German Version by me]: "It could well be, that what we call psyche and matter represents the same unknown reality - seen from inside and from outside. Jung introduced in this field of problems a new term, called synchronicity. It is referred to as 'meaningful temporal concurrence' of an inner and an outer event, without these two events being causally interdependent. The emphasis lies on the word 'meaningful', because there are naturally many meaningless coincidences."

So there is synchronicity and coincidence we have to discern. And synchronicity is created in (or by...) the mind of interpreter/ analyst or dreamer/ client. It is said, later on, that synchronicities tend to emerge in key phases of individuation process. So in my eyes talking about synchronicity means talking about the meaning we give our experiences, our dreams, our waking life. It is less talking about scientific provable events. Von Franz says, that the scientific exploration of synchronicity is a future task.

If you want to know more and different facts, visit this link, I found it interesting:

http://www.skepdic.com/jung.html

At least for me it is, that I don't have a book by Jung himself to quote from, but the article is despite it is coloured by scepticism very informative.

So, if I am into providing definitions, I'll go on for the parapsychological terms: The very first quote in Dean Radin's book "The Conscious Universe" says much on the link of Jung's belief system with parapsychological realms (p. 1):

"The psyche's attachment to the brain, i.e., its space - time limitation, is no longer as self-evident and incontrovertible as we have hitherto been lead to believe... It is not only permissible to doubt the absolute validity of space time - perception; it is, in view of the available facts, even imperative to do so."

Carl Jung, Psychology and the Occult

I'll go into the definitions things later. Time for supper.

Yours Ralf

Ralph:

Thanks for the info. Excellent link, too! They both cleared up a few things with me, and encouraged me to blow the dust off my copy of Man And His Symbols that's been sitting untouched by my bed for years.

Peter

Unsatisfyed with the various definitons of synchronicity I decided to do a little research of my own. Very interesting topic as it turns out. I read the various definitions of synchronicity as posted on the forum. I read the web site Ralf pointed out. What I understood from it is that synchronicity is a meaningful event that occurs minus the linear sequencing of cause and effect. I wondered how does this pertain to dreaming, as it were? How does it ever occur at all?

I went to my bookshelf, curious. I found laying there, a book that I had never read, but bought about 3 years ago and held onto. I had skimmed through it a bit, but at the time it really hadn't gotten too into it. The book is "The Dreaming Universe" by Fred Alan Wolf. I went straight to the index, looking for synchronicity. Sure enough there is an entire chapter on Carl Jung and synchronicity. It was roughly defined as the realization that order can exist in the human psyche in a non-casual manner and not always related to the cause and effect temporal order.

I read the whole chapter and at the very end of it was exactly what I was looking for, synchronicity as it pertains to dreams.

Excerpt "The dream is also a map of possibility. In the dream state the observer is not localized to one region of the brain. The observer is distributed throughout the brain and is picking up information from several memory locations simultaneously. The quantum wave in the brain is dependent on all of the possible locations of the observer so that memory recall in one location is instantly correlated with other locations, giving rise to surprising and meaningful overlaps of what are usually separated memories. Thus the dream takes on a bizarre quality as images that, normally kept apart, are blended. The dreamer has entered the unconscious mind, and there is synchronicity going on all over the place.'

So in short, the relation synchronicity has to dreams, is the experience of the dream itself, whatever the dream may have been about.

I was astonished to realize, after having read this chapter, that I found this book, in my house on my own bookshelf, that I had ignored for three years yet kept around for no apparent reason, was in itself a sample of synchronicity. It was there when I needed it and wanted it, yet I had no idea until the moment occurred.

Karen

In his book, Mans Search for Meaning, Viktor E. Frankl reports a dream related to him by a fellow prisoner whilst he was incarcerated in a concentration camp during WII. His friend had told him that he had dreamt and in his dream had been told that he could have the answer to any question he cared to ask, he decided to ask when his time in the camp would be over, the dream voice was exact and gave him a day and month (I think it was the 31st of March) Frankl goes on to describe how his friend was encouraged by his experience as he assumed it meant that the camps would be liberated within a short time (the inmates new that the allies were getting closer)however as the appointed time grew near they failed to arrive, and his friend changed his anitial assement, deciding that it had been a prediction of his death and despite his fellows objections, as Frankl puts it, gave up, and indeed died on the day that had been predicted. Frankl goes on to describe how he had seen many men die due to lossing the will to live which combined with the extreme conditions that they all lived under was all that was needed to ensure death.

My question is was the mans dream a precognition of his fate? or was what unfolded a self forefilling prophecy? Was his alloted fate revealed to him or did a strong desire for freedom incubate a dream that was so powerfull it led him to give up hope, when he could have gone on and survived?

How can we tell the difference between a self fufilling prophecy and a precognitive dream?

Peter: I am not sure how dreaming together ties in with synchronicity other than the fact that while the dream is being shared, so is synchronicity by virtue of both people involved are indeed dreaming. The topic you seem to be after is shared synchronicity. This too is an intriguing concept; perhaps the entire social structure is an example of shared synchronicity. We do often relate to others by sharing memories of experience, after all. If we can share them in dreaming too, then perhaps we can indeed create other social realities within the context of mind. Many already believe this, that everything is a consensual reality held in place by the shared perception of many. Karen: I agree there is no hierarchy of different states of dreaming. To me there is only perception as it is happening, whether it is a normal dream, a lucid dream, a meditation state, or any conscious activity including the normal state of simply being awake. Hierarchy is perhaps the result of social orders and in dreaming there is no verifiable social order, unless we all dreamt the same dream. Rob: At first glance it sounds to me like the man gave up and died. It was his fate to die, because he did not wish to disbelieve he was going to get out of there. But, who is to say, on the day that he died, that for him the camp was not liberated in his last moment of his consciousness? Perhaps the last event in his consciousness was spent living out the long sought after scenario, and somewhere out there this man is liberated, he is free. Does this perhaps suggest that this man can simply up and die at will at an exact moment in time predicted months earlier? I don't know about that, if just thinking I wanted to die would be enough to kill me, then I'd be dead years ago. My grandpa survived WWII and let me just say that he had no intention of dying. He was in concentration camps as well as in the Death march. They broke his back in too many places to count, and he had to eat bugs and such to survive. We all want to live, if we do not it is because an outside force has crushed us in such a way that we are perhaps already dead, unknown to ourselves. His prediction was perhaps true then, he did not die intentionally but because of the horrid conditions and circumstances of his life that lead up to that momentous and final event. Just some food for thought

This evening my wife and I traveled across the valley to drop my step daughter off with her father. We happened to go by Phoenix Sky Harbor and I saw what looked like a control tower. I don't know if it is a real control tower or not. It was right next to a building marked "Cutter". Perhaps this is some sort of restaurant? I say I don't know if it's a real control tower or not because There's a huge control tower in the middle of the airport. This other structure is smaller and right near the 101. As we passed by I saw a white van speeding in the distance ahead and thought of the last dream I had posted here. I took note of the place in the airport that an airplane would have to crash at in order to have both the "cutter" and the little air traffic control tower blocking the view from the road.

While dropping my step daughter off I heard on the radio that a freak, unpredictable storm had formed in the Gilber/Mesa area of the valley and that the power lines were down along Guadalupe road between Gilbert road and Alma School road. I happen to live right there. It took a couple hours to get home. Once home we discovered the power was out. We spent a couple hours making sure an elderly neighbor was alright.

We got this elderly neighbor into another neighbor's apartment because they for some reason had power and therefore air conditioning. They also had a TV tuned to news channel 3. There was a shot of an airplane with all escape slides deployed. It was live from Phoenix Sky Harbor. The plane had crashed without warning while landing. The underside of the wing was a bright green and blue design with red in it. The wing was silver on top. The plane did indeed crash where I had imagined. In case any one is wondering, there were some sprained ankles and sore backs, but no deaths or injuries.

Jason!

I am amazed. So your dream has been precognitive in a detailed way. I wonder if you were sitting in the same position as in the dream, when you passed the airport. And did you talk about the dream in that instance? Of course you talked about it later on, while watching TV, didn't you?

I hope you are fine with the possibly emotional consequences, such precognitive dreams can have. But nobody has been injured seriously.

Please tell us about the impact of this experience for you, if appropriate.

BTW. I had a kind of anomalous dream the day before yesterday. I was with my son, who did get a gastroscopy. I stood there despairing and not knowing what to do. So I communicated that to the doctors, went outside, sat down and wept. I felt, as if this dream could be anomalous perception. But I didn't write it down or told it my spouse.

That forenoon my former wife called and said, that my son had some gastro - intestinal infect and can't go to school. But he will be alright until Friday (tomorrow), when he is supposed to be with me and my sweetheart some days. The only hint on something happening there was that my former wife told me, he had lost weight, when we were talking the week before. But she saw that positive, he had gained some weight, when he spent the last months with us... I'm of course hoping, that this dream is not going to be precognitive in detail.

Now I did it too. I referred to a non - lucid dream. Naughty Ralf!

I think there is a lot to learn, a lot of questions. One of the first is: How can I learn to differentiate anomalous perception from other dream - content. There seems to something indicating, what has driven Jason to post his dream and me to at least think about the potentially meaning of my dream. And how will we act in a LD, if we suspect anomalous perception is involved?

There are so many questions. But I have to stop for now. Offline life is calling!

CU later

Yours Ralf

Rob,

--"How can we tell the difference between a self fulfilling prophecy and a precognitive dream?"--

That's a chicken/egg question--which came first? It's a search for cause. It assumes the universe (our dreaming) operates linearly--deterministically.

So, the answer to your question--how can we tell the difference between a self-fulfilling prophecy and a precognitive dream?--is that we can't. And maybe it doesn't matter. Maybe life--and dreaming--isn't either/or...but rather, both/and.

I don't think it is productive to stay within a cause and effect box when exploring our dreaming. I recognize that's the agenda of research--but only some research methodology uses this context.

It reminds me of the scientists who try to prove (or better disprove) paranormal phenomena using a positivist scientific method. Maybe it's their method that needs changing--not that paranormal phenomena don't "exist." The positivist method has a certain bias view of how the universe operates.

Frankl's fellow camp mate seems bound up in the cause-effect paradigm. He could have approached the dream in other ways (notwithstanding the extreme conditions he was in). He also assumed that the dream was more wise or had greater insight/knowledge than his waking self.

Usually precognitive dreams are not one dream but a series of dreams over time. Viewing precognitive dreaming in this way provides us with the time to process the dream experiences and gain further insights....so that we don't jump off the cliff because a dream said it was going to happen.

We aren't children awaiting a precognitive dream to tell us what to do to make our lives better. Rather our dreaming and waking life experiences can be reciprocal....are interweaving.

Karen

Ryan I think Frankl's point was that in severe curcumstances, such as when a mans back is broken and all he has to eat is bugs, the only thing that keeps him alive beyond his inherited robustness is his will to live or his will to eat bugs. His will will sustain him beyond expecations (upto a certain point) but should he surender, cease to believe that he can survive any longer, without intervention, his death will come sooner rather than later.

I think the man in question died when he did (who knows he may have died at a later point rather than surviving) because he had his first lucid dream, a dream in which he knew he was dreaming, asked a volitional question and recieved an answer, he was so in ore of the experience itself that he could not be persuaded that it was not providing him with forenowledge of an event that would come to pass.

If he had been an experienced lucid dreamer he could have gone back into the dream, asked different questions, examined alternative scenarios and maybe he wouldnt have been overwhelmed by the experience itself. And if it is possible within a dream to cross examine what at first appears to be a prediction and thereby enable variant futures to unfold how then can any dream or series of dreams lucid or otherwise be said to be genuinely precognitive?

Karen The question isnt which came first, its which is which? Surely being able to discern between a self fulfilling prophecy and a precognition matters when to mistake one for the other can lead to a premature end?

Are we dreaming?

Good point Rob. Personally I dont like to think the future is a fixed point in time that is going to happen, but rather a malleable everchanging constant that doesn't happen until we live it. The choices we make change everything.

Dear Peter and other fellow dreamers-

I have been offline for about a week, and I just read the 8/27 post with great interest. Speaking for myself, I know that my own experience of "synchronous" dreams have been anecdotal at best, but I feel that reading others' dreams in this category is just as authentic of a learning experience as exploring specific LD techniques. I also do not think that those of us who have experienced this are necessarily interested in becoming skilled in the field of "precognition" or "clairvoyance".

Contrary to your observations, this thread is absolutely relevant and just as worthy of critical thinking as other, more empirically measurable aspects of lucid dreaming. I agree with you completely when you acknowledge the fact that our ability to practice LDing corresponds with better than average dream recall (for nonLD's, too), but I would bet that there are others who are interested in this thread who have had a dream that corresponds to waking life in GREAT detail (as opposed to my humble salamander or even the donuts) that is much more expansive than simply "shar[ing] a minute circumstance"

By the way, I appreciate your cynicism and welcome any and all critical questions or observations. They inspire me to think critically, which is a skill that is crucial to all aspects of both waking and dreaming life. So, thanks!! Tracy

Ralf,

"I wonder if you were sitting in the same position as in the dream, when you passed the airport. And did you talk about the dream in that instance?" No and no. In the dream I was sitting sideways in the front passenger seat and facing the female driver. In real life I was sitting forward and looking out the passenger window at the airport. Also, the passenger in the back seat in the dream was definitely older than my 4 year old step daughter. I did not talk about the dream while we were in the car. My wife doesn't like me talking about my dreams even when they're relatively normal. Hey, she just passed by the computer and made a couple negative comments about my posting to this forum.

"Of course you talked about it later on, while watching TV, didn't you?" No, if she didn't freak my neighbors would have.

"I hope you are fine with the possibly emotional consequences, such precognitive dreams can have. But nobody has been injured seriously." If I had gotten the same feeling from the recent dream as I got from the other I posted I would have gone insane. The lack of serious injuries in a level 3 alert crash is amazing. I'm not prepared for more major events in precognitive dreams. I am interested in seeing further research in the relation of lucid dreams to precognitive dreams. I myself attempted predicting future events in a couple lucid dreams. The last attempt was on 9-11 before I had gotten up and watched the news. The results of the experiment was a newspaper with print that wouldn't stop moving. The last attempt was on 9-11 because I don't think I really want to know what's coming any more. That doesn't mean I won't take notice when these things happen on their own.

"Please tell us about the impact of this experience for you, if appropriate." This experience is just another event that has happened that hardly anyone will believe. In the past I argued with people about whether I actually became lucid in dreams or whether I could be in any way aware of the future. I don't do that anymore, I just take note of what's happening and let people beleive what they wish to believe. Outside a lab I cannot prove I have lucid dreams OR precognitive dreams. This experience hasn't really impacted me too much.

I hope your dream wasn't precognitive in detail either.

"I think there is a lot to learn, a lot of questions. One of the first is: How can I learn to differentiate anomalous perception from other dream - content. " There's a very good question. I do believe anomalous perceptions can slip into even the most ordinary dreams. How do we separate it all. And if you have a dream chock full of anomalous perception it could still be distorted by the natural working of your mind. The two dreams I have posted in this part of the forum have some things in common that seem to be form a pattern. Content is identified in the dream as having been seen previously in other dreams and is seen to be precognitive. But why the other content? I mean, why did the dream have me in a white van or SUV when I don't know anyone with such a vehicle? Was it just so I'd think of the dream when I saw the white van speeding along at the same time as I saw the two structures from the dream? You would think my mind would place me in a familiar vehicle if I were out on the road. Oh, now I'm drifting. Yes, I too would like to know how to separate all anomalous perception from other content.

"how will we act in a LD, if we suspect anomalous perception is involved?" The few times this has happened to me I have awakened the very moment. Most of the time I remain pre-lucid. I recognize what I'm seeing as being from my dreams but I identify them as happening in the real world. It would be great to stay in the dream and explore some. I hope I wouldn't spoil things too much.