Aloha, Dreaming & Awakening Retreat Participants! (May '03 @ Kalani)

We are very much looking forward to meeting each and everyone of you at the upcoming retreat! But why wait? This topic has been set up especially for you (registered participants of our May retreat) as a place to describe where you are with your lucid dreaming abilities, any particular difficulties you may be experiencing, and/or specific areas you'd like to have addressed during the presentations, so that we'll be able to offer the most individual assistance possible. The more you tell us about your dreamy selves, the better prepared we can be. ;)

Sweet coconut dreams! Keelin

Aloha everyone! My name is Alyse. I am from British Columbia, Canada. I have been a lucid dreamer all my life. I have a very active dream life, experiencing lucid dreams, telepathic dreams, dreams of divine inspiration, dreams of spiritual visitation and dreams of premonition. In 1983 I practiced Laberge's induction techniques with great results, and then as I became an adult with the responsibilities of family and work, my dreaming life became secondary and not so active. I renewed my interest in 1992, but again lost my consistancy at practicing. I am now in a position to renew my passionate interest in this subject and I am hoping this retreat will give my abilities a kick start. I have begun to reread my dream journal (1983 - present) to review my past experiences, I am doing reality checks daily and plan on rereading Laberges books. I believe that diet and exercise plays a big part in our ability to dream and I am beginning a plan accordingly. I am interested in information/experimentation with dreams and the Nicotine Patch, dreams and the Moon Phase, dreams and the Menstral cycle. I beleive there is significant influence of these on the dreaming self. Very early in my life I learned to control aspects of my dreams. When I was having a bad dream, I would allow it to get as far as I could handle it and then simply squeeze my eyes in the dream to bring me awake. I also learned that when I found myself running slowly or unable to move, I simply began to run like a monkey and I would become unparalyzed and reach super speeds. I still use this strange method when I find myself unable to move fast enough in the dream world. I find myself in 90% of my dreams inside some kind of house or building. I am not often outside. I never smoke or become hungry in my dreams, and that is one way that I know if I am awake. In many dreams I am simply an observer, I am not actually in my dream body. I have many dreams that seem important, with information given to me from higher sources, but I find it very difficult to bring this information back through to the waking world. I feel as if I have lost out on a lot of good inspirational material in this way. I am looking forward to meeting you all this May! Cheers!

Hmmm...I posted a message yesterday, but it's not here. That's odd!

I wonder...

Paul

Anyway, hello Alyse (pronounced ALICE or ELISE?), and hello to fellow attendees. I am looking forward to meeting you all for some lurid--err, I mean lucid dreaming at Kalani.

Presently I have only about 2 LD's per month, and strangely always around the 1st of the month. Most of my dreams are of the WILD type, and are pretty much indistinguishable from what others call OOBE's, although we all know these are really WILD's, right? I go through intense vibrations and lift off like a rocket most of the time, right into Dreamland. Pretty exciting. My goal is to have more DILD's, hopefully at will. It has recently occured to me that what's holding me back may be the fact that I never think or say out loud "I'm dreaming!", even when I'm well into a lucid dream. I'm just aware that I'm in that particular altered state of consciousness that I strive to achieve, then off I go to have fun. Maybe it's because I came to this through the OBE practice route that I never think of it as dreaming. Any opinions?

Anyway, attending this retreat is a dream-come-true for me. I know it will give me a big boost.

See y'all on the beach!

Merrily, Paul

So, where are all the other attendees? Let's get acquainted.

Well, since there's no one else to talk to, I'll just talk to myself.

I know that the definition usually given for lucid dreaming is something like "Dreaming with the knowledge that you are dreaming", but I have been thinking a lot about my own experience, and I am absolutely certain that I have never spoken, thought or even suggested to myself that I was "dreaming" inside a lucid dream. I talked about this briefly above, and I am continuing to try to understand this.

Let's say for the sake of argument, and I think it's true, that OBE's are really lucid dreams. Well, OBEers don't believe they're dreaming at all. They don't think "I'm dreaming", anymore than I do. Yet, it's really the same experience. So how can this definition of an LD be accurate? Wouldn't a better definition be simply "dreaming with conscious presence", or something to that effect?

For me the distinction between OBE and LD has become irrelevant. I really don't think I leave my body, although it often feels like I do, nor am I any more convinced that I'm dreaming in the ordinary sense, either. Now, after I awaken, upon reflection, I will say "I had a lucid dream", or "I was out-of-body" based on my MEMORY of what the experience felt most like, but while in the experience I just don't think about it at all. I just give a little 'Yippee!', and fly off to find some adventure.

There is definitely something other-worldly about these experiences, something that defies classification. In some ways the mysterious term "astral projection" best captures the experience for me. The places I travel to and the things I've seen are like nothing I've ever recalled from any ordinary dream. My ordinary dreams are awfully dull, like going on vacation to visit family. Ychhh! They're full of anxiety about finances, work hassles, and old neurotic behavior patterns; barely ever require more than a single room to act themselves out.

My CP (consciously present?) experiences are never scary, never negative in any way, highly surreal(except when it comes to sex), and definitely not dull. I've ridden stallions over fields of ice and into thundering storms, watched entire cities being constructed, explored a planet made of giant ice creatures, swum in a green sea full of frolicking aliens on a planet in a distant solar system, soared over a lovely village on a Sunday and waved at passersby below dressed in their Sunday best on their way to church, plucked delicious blue apples from a huge apple bush as I flew over it on my way to visit folks in hospital, moved furniture around with my finger only or just a an eye flicker, and much more. (I'm just sharing these things since I've never shared any of this with anyone else, and I'm about to overflow. In some ways I think we have to get these experiences "out" so some new experiences can come "in". I'm in a kind of dry spell, and maybe it's because it just can't get any better than some of my more recent experiences? Maybe I need to defrag. I don't know.)

Hard science says these are dreams, and I suppose they are--they must be! Still, maybe my LD's are so extreme precisely because I don't realize I'm dreaming in the classic LD sense. To me it feels like I'm simply awake in an altogether bizarre reality. I know I'm lucid, however, no mistake there. These are not just dreams or false awakenings. Entering this state to me always feels like an awakening, a becoming conscious, whether from a "real" state of wakefulness as in a WILD or from a dream state as in a DILD--it still feels to me like I've just awakened.

I do know, however, that I haven't awakened in the "real" sense. If I have any doubts about it a few reality tests usually suffice. I happen to like to rip doors off their hinges instead of just opening them. That's pretty convincing evidence for me that I'm consciously present in World X, since normally I have trouble opening an envelope due to arthritis.

I'm rambling on and on. Anyone wishing to comment, help yourself.

Paul

Aloha Paul!

I am so glad you are joining us for the program in May -- only 44 nights to go! ;) Don't worry about where our DreamCampmates are at the moment (perhaps they are dreaming?). In fact, don't worry about being the only "Paul" at the retreat either, as so far, we've registered two others by that very name. To further ease your concern, I can tell you that the estimate, at this point, is that we'll have about 25 participants (plus?) so you'll be in fine company soon.

It sounds to me like the awareness level in some of your dreams is what we'd call "tacit lucidity", a subtle knowing that you are dreaming, while the full potential of the state isn't explicitly acknowledged. Stephen will go into this in much greater detail during the sessions, and he'll cover OBEs as well (always a topic of great animated discussion!)

If you can't wait to investigate these topics further, there are comments to be found under other subject headings here on the Forum. Best way to search for them is to use the Keyword Search function (in the Forum's main menu) as many of the posts are tucked away in the archival folders.

In the meantime, may you dream well, wild, and wonderfully! Keelin

I've never heard the term "tacit lucidity", but it sounds interesting. My point--and I was not really trying to make one, but--since one doesn't necessarily need to think to oneself "I'm dreaming" in order to enjoy this altered state of consciousness, I wasn't clear about the basis for the definition Dr. LaBerge gives for LD in his writings. I was using the OBE literature as an example. Does "tacit lucidity" mean experiencing the state of lucidity without giving it a name? If it does, then that's exactly what I'm talking about also. My real question is this: Does the absence of the reflection that one is having lucid dreams when they occur make it harder to induce them at will?

I knew there would be others, I just wonder why they're not posting.

Paul-1

I've been reviewing the posts on tacit lucidity. There seems to be a general opinion that tacit lucidity is somehow less useful, dramatic, or conscious than so-called full lucidity. Is this the general view, because I would sure like to know what I'm missing. My LD's, as they are, are just about as awesome as I can take!

Last night I had a vivid but non-lucid dream where I was doing some home repair work . All the LIGHTS in the room I was working in were OUT-- the light bulbs needed changing, but I couldn't find any to fit properly--yet there was plenty of LIGHT to see. Could this have been some kind of bizarre SND cue? I figure any dream about light could be significant.

I would be interested in learning what ND settings tend to be the best on the average at being recognized. What works? Is this known?

-Paul

Dear Paul,

So how many oneironauts does it take to screw in a dream lightbulb? ;) Indeed, you figure right! While light can appear as a natural illumination of the scene, ANY dream that features light in a way that snags your attention is significant and one to reflect upon. And it's not the NovaDreamer that's being so utterly clever about it. It's really your very own brain that's conjuring up this creative incorporation. Isn't that a wonder? ;)

Regarding best settings, it's very difficult to state an "average". As you can imagine, what may work well for some, may not work at all for others. Success depends on many factors: sleep level (which can vary night to night), sensitivity to cue, preparation and ability to recognize the significance of the cue. Without gathering a significant amount of reports, I think you can see how difficult it would be to site an average.

Towards more illumination! Keelin

PS: Paul: And what do you plan to do next time you even think about a lightbulb? ;)

Keelin, it takes 5; one to screw in the bulb, and four to stand around whining because thay can't do that yet.

Yes, the mind is an amazing thing. I ought to get one.

-Paul

AH! Keelin, rest assured that no thought of light bulb shall pass between these furry ears without a REALITY CHECK!!

-Paul

Aloha fellow dream navigators!

I so look forward to meeting all of you in Hawaii. I am very excited about this retreat and enjoyed reading your contributions VERY much. I am plunging in now for a short introduction before I leave in three days for a visit to Brasil. I will return just before the retreat so I may arrive in Hawaii a bit groggy --perhaps a good condition to be in for the morning dream naps.

Dreams have been very important to me from an early age, but I haven't had much experience with lucid dreams per se. I have had numerous insightful dreams from which I have received important guidance, and countless "trance state" dreams, mostly upon falling asleep or awaking. I am eager to explore the lucid dreamworld with more depth and fullness. I am an LD toddler who is sprouting wings and is preparing to fly! Your contributions are already helping.

One of the things I appreciate most about dream time is that my rational mind doesn't get in the way, allowing all kinds of good soul nourishment to get through to my body, soul, heart and mind.

Sometimes I have dreams that are in response to a question I ask pre-sleep. I would like to bring this ability into conscious dreamtime awareness.

Dreams have helped me tremendously with my work as a hospice caregiver, both during the person's dying process and post "death" to help me understand where the person/their soul is. It has also helped me understand what "death" is. I was told that the practice of Tibetan Dream Yoga helps prepare one for a more conscious death. Not that I want to die now - far from it - but ego death can't hurt...and living & dreaming with more awareness is always welcome by me.

May the adventures continue and may the dream spirits have fun with us on this powerful and sacred island where magical things are bound to happen.

best wishes and good dreaming....

Annelise

Hello dreamers dreamed or whatever we are!

Im a 24 year old guy from sweden. That little long place way up north, east of canada. In the middle of norway and finland. Above denmark. Longitude and latidude... ahh well i´m in for some heavy flying anyway I was thinking of bringing my pet-polar bear, but i havent yet decided;)

Now something about my lucid dreaming so far, for anyone thats interested.

I used to have more lucid dreams when i was younger. I used to do lots of realitychecks then. It actually became an anoyance. I did checks all the time, hoping that i would be dreaming. And if i was it countinued in the dream. Constant reality-checking, scattering the dream. And if it was not a dream, i felt deeply dissapointed.

I then figured that if i could manage to be aware during the day, it should automaticly lead to lucid dreams. I read a book on dream-yoga by tenzin wangyal (or something...) and started to try and view the day as a dream. Atleast trying to view things as dreamevents, dreamobjects and so forth. And this made life more interesting, instead of feeling dream=fun/life=booring.

Now i realise that i have missed out on something that i guess most feel as something quite obvius. Reality checks, critical view of the day. I viewed the day as a dream, and then the nightly dreams became events where i viewed them as dream, but lacking the critical/realitychecks and souch i rarely really got it. It often became as the day viewed as a dream, not realy nderstanding that now i was realy lying in bed dreaming. But when i had lucid dreams, they tended to be more solid and stable then before, i could hold on to them, but less frequent.

Now i´m trying to bring focus to the diffrences, critical thinking, realitytesting, but only when it feels called for, when awareness and focus is lost. I do a check, and then try and keep awareness from the check forward. If something dreamy or odd happens, i try do do a quick back-scan in the mind to the last check. If it cant be found i do one of those that became an annoyance before. Digital arm watch reality checks.

I think that this is a good combination, has given med lucid dreams two nights in a row now. Yiipeee!!

Anyway, look forward to meeting you all. I have heard people talk about mutual-dreaming before, if souch a thing exist i guess we might!!

take care, and Aloha! jon

I just came to think of one thing that would be nice to get some info on is using dreams to plunge into memorys of the past, resolving issues, healing scars and souch.

In the receant past i have been going through stuff from the past, observing issues during the day and then trying to find scars in the past. Things that have moulded me. But the further back i get the harder it is to remember, so dreams should be perfekt for this kind of thing.

Any plans on talking about techniques for this?

Alohaaaaaaaaaahh, damn chair /jon

Jon,

Looking forward to meeting you at Kalani. Nice to know someone has a longer flight than I do.

Dream on, -Paul

Annelise,

Aloha right back. Where are you from? Can't wait until "Survival, Kalani", only 1 month to go! Next LD I'm going to go check the place out in advance, make sure they didn't screw up my reservation. I'll check on yours also.

See ya, -Paul

Aloha, Jon and other soon-to-be DreamCampmates,

Absolutely! During the program we will address the topic of healing dreams during our sessions on nightmare resolution, self-integration, and dreams of transcendence. We'll be using a specific technique during the program to work on the unresolved dream of your choice during the program.

Sugarcane dreams till then! Keelin

Paul:"Hard science says these (obes) are dreams, and I suppose they are--they must be!"

I dont think they must be. But my present view of the world and mostly anything is pretty fluid and scattered at the moment. Nothing that hit me on the head(please dont pitty me, i have been/am working on scattering it, breaking and bending beliefs and attitudes.

(I no longer believe that i will end up in a padded room for disbelieving and questioning things.)

What i have read on oobe, is that they are in or almost in "reality", the daily reality, so if you are able to have theese i guess it would be possible to test them. Setting up something before you go to sleep, something that you dont know but can check later. Maybe for example picking a card from a deck and putting it somewhere, front up, without looking on it and then going there if in an oobe looking at it, then waking up and verifying if its the same card. If so maybe its still a dream, but then its different in the sence that it seem to be closer to waking life i guess. This it just a thought, i have no experience with it, but if i had i would try and experiment with this. I have only read about it. (I try to be careful about reading to much about things now, since i have realised i tend to belive i "get things", know about it, without experience of it. Which can never be the case if i dont try it out, feel it, does it.)

ta hand om er allihopa och dröm på!!, jon

rtest-rtest

I am in the woods with a friend i havent seen in a long time, we talk about writing and about how clear our thinking is while walking in the woods.

We hesite to walk into the deep forest though, and walk further on small road made of sand towards planks leading out over a swamp. As i walk out on the plank i notice something sitting at my right, not very far from me. I gaze trying to see what it is, sitting there partly behind an old tree, not moving, but seemingly aware of me.

Suddenly i notice brown fur moving in the wind, eyes looking back at me, a great big grin; white sharp teeth.

"Bear......bear..BEAR!!", i squeal like a pig to my friend, standing right behind me. Taking a step back, off into the swamp, i realised to my suprise that it is dried out. Nothing to sink in, more like a great big bath sponge. Possible to run on -and we do!

Coming toward an old cabbin, in a really bad condition, i jump right up on the roof. When i see my friend run straight by with a big brown bear right behind him i jump down, run after them and push the bear in the back. And he notice...

Suddenly the bear is behind a door leading to where i live, with me holding it partly shut from the outside. Suddenly i feel sorry for the bear and opens the door while running away from it, flying up into the air. I then hovers towards and from the bear, undecided if i should fear it or not. There seeme to be no reason anymore, it does no attempt at hurting me when i dive towards it...

;---- Lucidity? none whatsoever! I just wished there would have been some dreamsigns in the dream... lol.

I´m in a babbling mode at the moment so i continue thinking loud(i seem to have a babbling mode, and a silent mode). If its not suitable in here, please stop me.

I was out walking in the forest with my parents dog two days ago koncentrating on observing the surroundings and then i had lucid dreams two nights afterwards; maybe walking in the nature is energizing and relaxing in a pro-lucid way, worth trying anyway.

The name of my friend? Directly translated it is "Brave". (He/I sure did some brave running!

Next time standing in front of a frowning bear, i´ll try not to run...on second thought maybe some running type of realitytest would be prefferable

dreams filled with dreamsigns to everybody! take care, jon

Jon,

The real question I am trying to answer is not about the reality of the dream world, but of this one. I can't shake the suspicion that this "reality" is just another dream. Maybe it feels more solid because the whole world is dreaming it at the same time--we all agree, we've been taught how it works. People can't really fly, you can't put your fist through the ceiling, and NovaDreamers flash when you do a reality check. Those are the rules of this world. Stability, continuity, gravity--what a bummer!

If our marvelous minds can spin a dream world of such remarkable complexity, how do we know this one is real?

Dear Jon & Paul & DreamCampers All,

The OBE experience is yet another topic we will cover during the retreat, including the question: What exactly does it mean to be in the body? As usual, a fascinating discussion is bound to follow Stephen's elucidating presentation!

In the meantime, you may find the article "OTHER WORLDS: OUT-OF-BODY EXPERIENCES AND LUCID DREAMS" by Lynne Levitan and Stephen LaBerge of interest. You'll find it (in this very realm!) on TLI's website at: http://www.lucidity.com/NL32.OBEandLD.html

Warm Aloha, Keelin

Paul,

Thats a great question! To bad we dont get a pamphlet when we´re born.

"Welcome child with a clean mind. This is where youre gonna stay for some time This is what it is, what you are, and what youre supposed to do: ....

Good luck, and see you soon. (dont take it all to serius!)

Also remember that this pamphlet is a new idea, and its only needed because you have a tendency to loose youreself all the time, and then help your children loose themselves. "

But then again, maybe there wouldnt be anybody to write a pamphlet. Think it´s an interesting thought anyway!

I wonder how a newborn child views the world, anyone remember? My dog? I keep asking him all the time, but he only turns his head and gaze at me with brown eyes in crystalsharp concentration. Wiggle his ears trying to understand the shifting sounds, wags his tale.

"I keep telling him all the time, but he never listens, he only makes this stranges noices, like he was talkning to a baby or something. I give up, i wag my tail. That seem to be something he understands anyway."

(this letter may or may not be an effect of to much coffeine...)

Thank you Keelin for the article link.

Snow is falling heavy outside the window and i long for hawaii!! Aloha, jon

Jon,

Want to take a morning off and go Marlin fishing? We could split the cost. The best in the world is at Kona.

-Paul

Keelin,

I had a very interesting SND light cue insertion last night. I dreamed that I was writing a short story that involved the appearance, out of thin air, of large spindly items--something like toy jacks only person-sized and sharp-pointed, kind of like the stars you might see on top of a Christmas tree, that came by the thousands and pierced me through and through, only they didn't hurt, they just impaled me and then moved me around from place to place painlessly.

Now, I've had my SND set on BLITZ recently; 6 flashes per second for forty seconds, to see if I can break into my sleep of the dead, and I realized after I awoke--I did not become lucid-- that these spindly things were retinal after- images I could see during and right after a cue. I verified this while awake.

Isn't that a kick?

Next time I'll know what to do.

May I be swamped by spindly things!

-Paul

Aloha, Paul,

What a striking NovaDreamer cue incorporation! Glad to hear you say "next time" you'll be ready to get the point, so to speak.

;) Keelin

Paul,

Marlin fishing sounds fun, but i´m not shure my bank account agrees. Have to interpret its echoes.

Anyway, never say never, i´ll bring my bamboo-rod anyway;)

Had any marlinfishing dreams? Under a flashing sun Sounds like a neat thing that NovaDReamer!

see you, jon

Jon, ok, we'll play it by ear on the fishing. Just a thought.

-Paul

Additional considerations on the OBE vs Lucid Dreaming discussion can be found in "The Varieties of Lucid Dreaming Experience" posted on the Lucidity website -

http://www.lucidity.com/VOLDE.html.

Dominick

Keelin,

So, what is the discriminating dreamer wearing in Hawaii this time of year? And what was that comment about insect repellant? I am extremely liable to insects feeding on me, thanks to the diabetes. Please tell me our sleeping quarters have screens!

-Paul

Aloha, Paul & future DreamCampmates!

Q: So, what is the discriminating dreamer wearing in Hawaii this time of year?

A: Pajamas, of course! Pineapple and palm tree prints are always popular, but designer geckos are the latest rage. Feel free to wear them all day throughout the retreat. You never know when the urge to nap (perchance to lucid dream!) may strike. Aside from that, casual is the key to comfort, but be sure to consider the changeable weather, with temperatures ranging 65-85°.

As for the possibility of your being nibbled to nothingness by mosquitoes, don't worry. Kalani stocks a selection of effective repellants in their gift/sundries shop, and the rooms are cleverly designed with screens on the inside of the windows, so you can enjoy the breeze without the buzz. Now that gives me an idea! Since Stephen will be bringing a DreamSpeaker for you to try, Paul, we could record the sound of one mosquito buzzing as a cue. You'll go to sleep, knowing the window screens are all in place, so when you hear that annoying little high-pitched buzzzzzzzzzzz, you can ask yourself, "How odd is that?" and voila! ;)

And to give everyone a general idea of who's coming to the retreat: At this point, we have 26 enthusiastic oneironauts registered to participate, with an equal number of men and women, ranging in age from 20-78, and from such far away lands as Canada and Sweden! Novices to expert lucid dreamers, with a variety of educational backgrounds, personal interests, and diverse professions, we will all be in good company to share our mutual passion for lucidity night and day.

See you all soon 'neath that old Hawaiian moon! Keelin

Keelin,

ALOHA!! Wonderful idea!!! I could never let the sound of a mosquito buzzing around my ear go unnoticed, that's for sure. I hate the little ba----ds!!

What if we don't sleep in pajamas?

See ya' soon

-Paul

Aloha! I have a question for you lucid dreamers out there. One of my biggest obstacles has been that whenever I start really making progress with my lucidity, I begin to encounter people in my dream world who scare me and who seem to be out of my control. I don't have the ability to change the landscape or manipulate anything. It's very real, and as in the waking life, I am just an equal participant with every other character walking around. But anyway, I have come across certain characters who seem determined to keep me away from the lucid areas. I also have come across other strange things, such as a timekeeper (which is what tipped me off that i was dreaming). this person was off to the side and said, 5 more minutes left in the dream. So I ran to the house to find my sister and mother, since we had previously agreed in waking life to locate each other when lucid to try to wake each other up for a possible collective dream. but their dream bodies became lifeless mannequins as soon as I tried to wake them up, and there was someone saying or some understanding that I had violated the rules of lucid dreaming. my mom had the same experience when she later tried to wake me in her lucid dream. Has anyone had experience with this? jane

Aloha Jane!

I remember one tryingtowakeupgettingfrozendream when i read your letter.

I had a dream where i became lucid flying over some houses near where i lived then. I met a friend standing on a road waiting for me. I went down to him and tried to show him that it was a dream. Thats when he suddenly got frozen. I recall something rather strange about his eyes. They changed color, became empty, like there was nobody there anymore. Something like that. I had a strange feeling that it actually had been him, and that he woke up. (I had read some about mutual dreaming at the time, which might be a part of it...)

What i remembered most was the eyes anyway, did you notice anything strange about them in your dream?

take care, jon

Aloha Jon! Wow, your dream sounds a lot like mine. I too had the feeling that it was really my sister and my mom. Their eyes did go very blank, and I had the sense that they had left their dream bodies. It didn't occur to me that if I said hey, wake up, that they would wake up in real life. but that's probably what happened. and if so, then I think collective dreaming might be possible. Maybe it's something to do with being Swedish, because my sister and I are about half swedish (on my mom's side too.) have you ever been to this workshop before? I haven't and never to Hawaii either. take care jane

Hej på Dig Du, Jane!

I'm not participating here, only reading, since my LDs aren't that elaborate. But, please, tell me why you think that being halv svensk has effects on your lucid dreaming.

I envy you for going to Hawaii. It was too beautiful there and I'd like to go again.

Ha det så bra! Jan

Hello Jan Sorry I don't speak any Swedish. My grandmother (mormor) did and my mom does a little. but I don't really know if being swedish has anything to do with dreaming. It's just that people always ask me and my sister what country we're from, and we're also kind of different and weird in a good way. But having two halv svenks and one full svenk at the conference should be a good start on doing experiments on whether the scandinavian gene is an important factor in lucid dreaming. did you go to this conference before? I'm really looking forward to it.

ha det sa bra! jane

Tjänare Jan!

Kul att träffa på en Svensk klardrömmare, kan inte minnas att jag någonsin gjort det faktiskt

Det har ju varit bra fint väder nu om dagarna i sverige också, men hawaii slår nog det.

Om du kan få tag i Illustrerad vetenskap, så står det om klardrömmar och om laberge i sista numret. Jag blev mäkta fårvånad när jag såg det!! Realitycheck (to everyone) förvånad

Hur som haver, du får ha det så bra.

Trevligt att höra från någon från samma land i alla fall... fan vet varför:-)

Bäst att sluta, det här är väl marsianska för de flesta här inne.

Dröm på! Jon

YES jane, i think that being partly swedish is the key factor to this kind of dreaming;)

Nar, i dont know if lucid dreaming is "big" in sweden at all. But to my great suprise i read an article in latest issue of a big swedish sciense magazines about lucid dreaming and laberges experiments proving their existance! The headline said something like. "Now it is proven! Dreaming while awake is possible"; (hasnt it been for some years?)

I´ve never been to any dreaming workshops whatsoever before, and not to hawaii either. Nice combinating them now

I only wish that i had one of those teleportation units i´ve seen in that television documentry star trek!

ha det bra och dröm på! jon

Hi, Jane and Jon! Jon. I think we keep to English. Jane. I'm sorry to have made that mistake, but it was of course the first idea one gets. Your other half sounds very Dutch - no, I will not start guessing again. Anyway I'm not Swedish either, I'm German, but I've lived in Sweden (Stockholm) the last 39 years and that is 15 years longer than Jon has, who is Swedish. Yes, I attended the Hawaiian seminar last November and I loved it. Keelin, Stephen, Nathen and Dominick are really nice people. The surroundings at the camp are superb, the djungle, the lava, the warmth, the little geckos with their big voices. Can you imagine that I first after coming home realised that there was no TV and no radio anywhere. Jon. Yes, I too had liked that teleportation unit, especially since my plane from Sweden broke down, we had to go back and my whole itinerary went down the drain. I'll get me an issue of the magazine. My room mate, Bucky, was a journalist from Esquire and he wrote an article in the february number. So, we are hitting the news. My interest got roused by a long article in DN (big Swedish morning paper) in 1999. Beautiful dreams to both of you and to all other participants. Jan

Jan/Jon My last name is Dutch, from my dad's side, but our Dutch ancestors came over so long ago that not much Dutch remains in me. Jon now I think we're really sharing the same Swedish genes because I always always wish for a teleporter. Anyway, last night I fell asleep in my chair (too much studying) and started to dream. I haven't had a lucid dream in quite a while, but suddenly I became lucid. I got so excited that I woke up. but it's a good start anyway. My sister Annabelle has been having some great dreams about our upcoming Hawaiian experience. including being gently bitten by a red-spotted frog, the result of which is that you will wake up in real life. or something like that. I think she can tell it better. maybe she'll log on soon. has anyone posted pictures? where would they be? jane

Nevermind, I found the edit profile. thanks! jane

Jan!

Come back to the islands! We will miss you dreaming with you.

Warm Aloha! Keelin

Keelin, Aloha!

Here are some questions. But first...

Last night I had a non-lucid dream that was just dripping with dreamsigns. Oddities so odd that anyone with only half my desire to become lucid would have realized they were dreaming instantly. Yet, I did not. I won't bore you with all the details, but this has raised the following questions...

1. Is it possible that my dreaming mind, or my subconscious, if you will, being saturated with my desire for lucidity, was actually trying to help me by providing all these obvious dreamsigns at one time, and

2. Is it also possible that another part of my psyche is actively resisting becoming lucid, for some reason, and if so, then

3. Should I try to discover what that reason is and attempt to overcome it, and if so, then

4. Exactly how would someone go about doing that?

I know this is a lot to ask at once, but I would be happy knowing what anyone thinks about at least question #2. Can someone be subconsciously resisting lucidity while consciously trying hard to have LDs?

This relates to the fact that my LD frequency is declining while my desire to dream lucidly is stronger than ever, as I believe last night's dream suggests.

-Paul

Jane! One of our group has a webbsite with quite a lot of pictures from our stay. The address is http://www.traumflieger.de/hawaii/index.htm. There you can go to one of the links on the left hand side "fotoreise english version" or "other fotostuff from Hawaii". You'll find me there big as live - and bigger! Keelin. The only thing I can say is "MAHALO". Jan

Hello Paul!

I recognise the feeling. Last nights dreams should have made even a stone lucid, but not me. But wait, that must mean that i´m not a stone!;)

I believe that relaxation is very very important. Am doing some tension, relaxing exercise before going to sleep now. Its a shame that its not easier to relax when feeling tense, seem a bit unfair

It seems that feelings can hide themselves in the body. And by relaxing they surface, which isn´t always comfortable. But staying with the feeling seem to release it. Perhaps showing the cause of it in the coming dream or so. Some kind of personal reversed psycology maybe. "I dont push you away anymore. Hey are you leaving now? What did you say: not needed anymore?"

Trying to hard seem to counter-chech relaxation also. Maybe the balance has to be found. And finding the ability to try without using force. I have TRIED to relax many times, but it only seem to work when i observe it, and let it come.

I have noticed that fear is quite a crippler. If you have seen the move Lida, she and her hammer might personify it!

Hope this can help in some way. I answered some of my own questions anyway;)

In any case, it feels like help is getting closer every day!

Relaxed dreams to you, jon

Aloha Jane!

Great with the lucid dream! Tonight you will have another one, tonight you will have another one, tonight you will have another one, tonight you will have another one. And thats a fact!

Can you hear the sound of a pocket watch swoooooching back and forth in front of your eyes!;)

What if in the future there will be greeting-cards that contains a lucid dream. What a great thing to give to someone! "Happy birtday, heres a lucid dream!" (that and a teleporter offcourse);)

I hope your sister brings the frog, so that he can take a bite of all of us!

take care, jon

Hello Jan!

Dont talk about planes braking down!!;) I´ll try and get a hold of his article in the Esquire.

Do you know which dn issue their article was?

Interesting to see how lucid dreaming is getting noticed in magazines anyway.

Does anybody know of any lucid dream magazines?

take care, jon