Dear Oneironauts one and all,

First, a warm and long overdue welcome to all our new members! We invite each and everyone of you to introduce yourselves and to share your lucid dreams, questions, and comments here within our vibrant community of dedicated dream explorers. We look forward to getting to know you!

During these past several weeks, I've been quietly enjoying the reports and continued journeys of those of you who've been sharing your adventures, and want to thank you all for keeping the Forum alive and odd. The humour has been most welcomed, especially lately when the waking world has been testing to the limit those dream-learned skills of lucid living for me. Hopefully, time will soon allow an opportunity to respond to some of the excellent questions that have been raised lately. In the meantime, I want to let you all know:

The next Dreaming and Awakening Retreat is scheduled for November 1-10, 2002. Once again, we're heading for the Big Island of Hawaii, where we'll place our oneironautical heads on those lush, tropical pillows at Kalani Retreat Center to sleep, per chance (make that per intention!), to lucid dream. We hope you will join us! General information, registration, and scholarship applications are available online at: http://www.lucidity.com/DAAK02/index.html

If you're curious to know what it might be like to participate in one of our retreats, please visit the testimonial page which features photos and comments from our alumni. And for a more detailed (and very humorous) insider's report, be sure to check out Ralf's "Maui DreamCamp Picture Show" at http://ralf.penderak.bei.t-online.de/index.htm. THANKS, Ralf! The images and memories you've included are a wonderfully sweet tribute to the fabulous time and memorable fun we all shared!

Bright dreams to all, Keelin

Dearest Keelin!

Feels good to hear from you again. Hope your challenges will soon be followed by a time of relaxation and peacefulness.

I hope I will be able to add new pages to the Maui report, soon. Everything is fine at home, we are starting up the practise and think about moving from our apartment into a house with more room, maybe next year...

Thanks for laurel leaves, maybe soon the Maui report is included in Lucy Gillis: Lucid Dream Exchange - links section.

In Germany we would say "Halt die Ohren steif!" Here I simply wish you all the best

Yours Ralf

Hi Ralf,

Many thanks for the warm, good wishes... they are much appreciated.

A bit of amusement came my way a few days ago when Stephen sent me a copy of an English-from-Russian-translation of "Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming" which had found its way to him. One particular line from my dream (quoted in chapter twelve) gave me reason to smile -- and to put current matters into better perspective:

... I reached/achieved some electric power lines and hesitated, reflecting, as my body will react, if I attempt to fly through them. Having not long thought over, I pronounced, almost that aloud: "To minutochku, whose this is sleep, finally? What problems?"

What problems indeed?! For isn't one of the joys of being a lucid dreamer knowing that there are always more options for creative resolution than what appears at first glance?

Best of luck to you & Astrid in establishing your new practice!

Abundant Aloha to all, Keelin

PS: I've also made a request to Lucy Gillis to add a link to your site in the upcoming issue of LDE. It's a natural!

Dear Keelin,

That is hilarious! Thank you. Tonight in your honor I shall endeavor to pronounce in my dream, almost that aloud, "Whose this is sleep?" - and dedicate it to creative resolutions wafting your way.

Alohaisimo (Spanish/Hawaiian),

Joy

Hey, this worked out pretty well! By the time I went to bed hours later, I couldn't remember that funny phrase and I was too tired to come back here and look it up. So I jotted down the essential message in my dream notebook: "No Problem!" I saw it and was reminded when I woke up at 0530, and went back to sleep.

In the course of a very long and enjoyable dream whose details are probably not relevant, I sat up in bed and noticed the scene out the window: It seemed I was on the (north?) point of a bay, looking inland (southeast?) at a coastal city. It was a bright, attractive scene with blue sky and water, white beachfront buildings, something red - I didn't take note of what - building, ship, tank; anyway it was a very clear and vivid coastal scene, but I was quite certain I'd gone to bed in the desert. "Look at that! Then I must be dreaming!" Feeling happy to be seeing this expansive, vivid and cheerful scene, I remembered my mission and called out with telepathic intent: "Hey, Keelin! No Problem!" ... and gradually woke up.

Joy!

Dear Joy,

Although I don't recall having heard your voice in my dreams last night, I do hear the echo of your words now. So reassuring! ;)

Mahalo, Keelin

That's OK - if you have any happy dreams in the next few days you can give me credit for them! ;P

And I'm racking my brains how to earn my money...

Hey guys i missed u! I have been really busy lately and i don't really have the internet right now. I have been stressed out lately and arguing with everybody esp. my best friend and i dreamt one day recently that he died. He killed himself by poisoning himself and he died in my arms with one tear coming out of his right eye if i remember correctly. It was so weird when i realized i was dreaming i began to wake up but it felt like i was dying as well like i was holding my breath and when i woke up i took a long deep breath of air and all these tears began to flow out of my eyes and i had trouble composing myself but i had to cuz my uncle was asleep in the same room. but what i was wondering was if i dreamt this out of my own fears or if this is some kind of pre-cognitive dream. Because the last time i dreamt that someone died they did. The same thing happens to my mom and my sister. Oh, and i recently found out that my brother dreamt of what happened on Sept. 11 before it happened. I always knew he was highly intuitive ever since we were little kids but my brothers tend to be skeptical about things that they can't expain logically. Also, u should know that he is suicidal or was i don't know and he called me one time on the phone crying telling me that he wanted to kill himself and at first i wasn't taking him too seriously and I asked him how he would do it and he said i don't know i guess with poison. I kind of laughed and called him romeo but then i calmed him down and gave him this long speech about how much his family and i love him and how he has to stay here and raise his child that will be born in Oct. i think. the due date is on my birthday. how weird. did i mention this guy is my ex. well iguess that's it i got off the subject. well thanks guys tell me what u think

luckystar

Lucky Sounds pretty intense for you at the moment. The only response that I can think of is this extract from Mr. Laberge's Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming, "...dreams of death can become dreams of rebirth if you let them, as is illustrated by one of my own dreams. After a mysterious weakness quickly spread through my whole body, I realized I was about to die of exhaustion and only had time for one final action. Without hesitation, I decided that I wanted my last act to be an expression of perfect acceptance. As I let out my last breath in that spirit, a rainbow flowed out of my heart, and I awoke ecstatic." (p31,32 if you've got a copy)

Depressed people often wish themselves dead, yet I believe what they really want is a psychological death rather than a physical one, so that they can (sort of) be psychologicaly reborn. An end to the part of themselves that the death wish originates from, space within which to create a more positive outlook.

Prehaps learning to dream lucidly could help your brother in that department?

Never give up hope,

Dear fellow lucids!

Firstly I want to send our American friends the warmest regards. I hope, that you'll all get over the September 11 events and everything linked to this incredible tragedy. We have many documentaries and discussions on TV in Germany and some informal exchange with friends and colleagues these days regarding the subject. I only want to repeat expressing my deepest compassion.

And then excuse me for not writing some days, but I've been abruptly torn away into the hospital. Had been badly injured by an unfair attack with broken fibula and radius while playing soccer on August 30. Now I'm home again and work through 80 postings. Very interesting discussions and experiments! I can write with 10 fingers, what a luck. I can walk and don't need to take any allopathic medication ( I only take my homeopathic pills and unction). I think, I will be back to normal movements in another six or eight weeks.

Thanks for sharing dreams and thoughts

Your somewhat damaged Ralf

Ralf:

Thank you for your kind thoughts and comments. I feel this has in some way affected us all.

Sorry to hear of your mishap (ouch!). Godspeed on your recovery...

zzzzZZZ(Liberty cannot be rationed to the few, only diluted to the many) z z z Joe

Dear Ralf!

I was just about to write you a personal note, having noticed your recent absence here. So sorry to hear you've been "somewhat damaged". I, for one, shall do my best to have a lucid healing dream of you -- or perhaps we could have a group dream on your behalf? ;) In the meantime, may your fibula and radius mend with dream velocity.

Love, Keelin

Dearest Keelin!

Thanks for your best wishes and dreamy intent. Healing takes place rapidly. Today I had a 1 1/2 hours walk with my sweetheart. Only set down once during that walk. I think that is fast given that I broke my fibula just two weeks ago. I want to be healthy as soon as possible. But until then I'll use the time for dreaming and learning. Hope to catch the healing dream!

Nice to be back in the forum. I worked on a mail for the synchronicity,... thread all day. Hope to get ready tomorrow.

CU in LD

Yours Ralf

Hi, Ralf! I hope you recover the rest of the way very quickly, and glad to see you on the forum again. Dream well, Kate

Hey, Ralf, radius AND fibula? Wow! It does sound like you're making a speedy recovery and all these dreamers' good intents can't hurt. Tell me what color you like best for healing and I'll see if I can send some of it to you in a dream!

Joy

Good morning, Ralf (or evening for you by now) - I've been asleep & dreaming good dreams since writing the above - remembered you in one, and brought you a get-well gift which I delivered to you in your sleep, hopefully into your dream! I'll tell you about it when I have time (& after you've had time to sleep :-)

Joy

A warm aloha & a quick question for all of our Dreaming & Awakening Retreat Alumni:

Are there any among you who post to such groups as alt.dreams, alt.dreams.lucid, and/or alt.obe on a regular basis? If so, please contact me -- as soon as possible. ;)

Mahalo & Sweet, tropical dreams! Keelin

Hi. There's no specific site for this posting, so I'm putting it here. I got lucid very briefly last night, basically using Dr Stephen L's technique of waking up and pottering around for a while and going back to sleep. I actually got up to watch the meteor shower, but that was a good waking activity, and then I came in and posted on forum. Then I went back to bed. Couldn't sleep at all, but finally did, and in the dream, was lying in bed in living room instead of bedroom, and saw front door was open. Was already light out, and there was pampas grass framed in the doorway. Wondered that I hadn't locked it before, and how it came to open. Then I found myself outside and was trying to figure out how I got there. (Which is a RC check I do in waking life.) I recognized the complex - it was exactly like real - but couldn't orient myself because I hadn't walked to where I was but just arrived suddenly. Then I wondered if I was dreaming, although just idly, then realized I really was. It was a beautiful day - it seemed to actually pulsate with that wonderful-dayness that you get in the early am in the spring or summer. I felt happiness welling up in that physical way inside that you can actually feel. Then I woke, but i don't think it was because of the emotion. Think it was because I was too close to the edge of wakefulness. Of course I will try this methood again. I've done it before, but I'm hoping it will work better now becasue my latest method of trying to acheive lucidity is to say over and over, thtoghout the day, "I will become lucid in all my dreamsm" and then do RC's. I have a sense that it's actully creating more of a connection in my mind between the two states, becasue my dreams have been more of normal, everyday type situations lately. And this might be better for me, as I always miss the wierdness cues. When I had mugwort tea Sunday I dreamed bizarrely, but I just don't see that that does me any good. Any thoughts? Kate

Kate

Congratulations and thanks for that interesting posting. You could have posted that in Learning lucid dreaming - naps section. I felt no special effects using any kind of pills or teas regarding lucid dreaming. I like the purely mental way, somehow...

Ralf

Hi, Ralf. Thanks, it did mean a lot to me that I got lucid, even though it didn't last. The mugwort herb definitely affects my recall in dreams and seems to make the dreams more strange, but it doesn't help me to LD. I guess that dream does qualify as a nap dream, or WILD. Kate

Hey Kate,

Great lucid dream! I love your description of the wonderful-dayness.

I also dreamed lucidly and joyously after watching the meteor shower from 2 to 4 a.m. - beginning with seing a rainbow arcing across the sky and silvery-white clouds that became fish flying toward us through the air, close enough to touch!

Joy

Hi, Joy! Thanks. If you have time, it would be great to hear the rest of your meteor shower-inspired dream...

Sure, Kate, here it is. I already typed it up so it's easy to cut and paste.

... I exclaimed in delight and wonder and succeeded in reaching one of the flying fish that swam nearby, catching it and pulling it close to feel it and telling everyone, yes, it does have scales ! We (all biologists) felt concerned about injuring it by holding it, so instead of passing it around I quickly let it go. I remember a brief conversation with a short, friendly gray-haired woman; I forget what we said but her face stands out in my mind.

Watching the flying fish, I considered the possibility that I might be dreaming and soon concluded this was the case. I picked up my keys, marveled at their realism, read the lettering on one that says "DO NOT DUPLICATE" and watched with amusement as the words doubled.

As with two days ago, I spent a very long time being lucid and returning easily to the dream as I began to slip into waking awareness, at the expense of recall. It was wonderful fun. One remembered highlight: In waking life there's a vent in my ceiling for which I'm going to make an insulating cover for winter, but I need to get up there somehow to measure it. In the dream I thought, "Hey, I can fly up and measure that vent! Who knows, it might even turn out to be the right measurement in waking life!' I got my yardstick from its place and flew up, while my friends debated whether this could possibly be effective. But it changed shape as I tried to measure it.

I also thought that I'd like to try my usual meditation technique within a dream, and began to do so, but sensed that focusing inward and drawing energy upward might on this occasion draw my awareness toward waking.

In the end, once again I decided that what I most wanted to do was...

...

The rest is X-rated.

Joy

Hi, Joy! Thanks, I enjoyed the dream. Liked the part about catching the fish and feeling the scales, and the keys with a sense of humor. I wonder if when we reach out to capture something unusual, it's a significant theme. Since your thoughts at the end of the dream were X-rated, I assume the short, gray-haired lady was Dr Ruth. Dream on, Kate

Hey, dreamfriends!

I'll be off for a week or so.

CU later lucids for everybody!

Ralf

Hi dreambodies!

Salvia Divinorum is a (so far) legal entheogen/psychedelic that may have significant overlap with the dreaming experience. At sufficient dosage level it produces an experience that is very dreamlike and unlike any other mind-altering drug known - its mechanism of action in the brain is not related to any other known drug. I have read anecdotal accounts of people being observed under the influence sometimes producing rapid-eye movement just like that which occurs during the REM cycle. It is very short-acting but extremely intense and can produce immersion in vividly real alternate worlds, which can contain beings that you can hear, touch, etc. One person whose account I read speculated that what Salvia does is to switch the brain into dreaming mode; another related that the body distortions at the outset of the experience were similar to those experienced at the outset of a WILD or an OBE.

Salvia Divinorum is a sacred vision plant that has been used traditionally in Mexico for centuries, in ceremonies that take place in darkness and silence, and has been described as an "oneiric" substance.

For those of you living in the land of the free who might be interested in experimenting with this, act now for the DEA has it in their gunsights - in the not-too-distant future it will likely become illegal in America. It seems likely to remain legal in Canada for the forseeable future, however.

There is a wealth of information on this important plant at Daniel Siebert's website, http://www.sagewisdom.org/

If you decide to experiment with this ally, be sure to read Siebert's excellant FAQ and play safe. One other comment: I've heard from some people that using small amounts of it before bed has interesting effects on one's dreams.

Actually, it seems that the DEA passed on this plant, but apparently someone in Congress felt that Salvia use must be contained. It is quite unfortunate, as Salvia is not a "recreational" or "party" drug. Many websites tout Salvia as being a "legal LSD" or a substitute for Cannibas, neither of which is even remotely accurate. But enough of that.....

Adastra's recommended link contains all of the info on this subject one might need to make an intelligent decision regarding its use. A word of caution: If you have no experience with psychoactive substances and/or lucid dreaming, experiment with caution. The "change" can be quite dramatic. Be smart, be prepared....

Dear fellow dreamers!

Have a happy holiday!

And CU next year...

Yours Ralf

To Ralf and Keelin and other LDers, have a successful New Year!!

I've been having my usual clumps and dry spells recently but also some success with WILDs. I believe I had or 2 or 3 genuine WILDs this month.

I achieved this by focusing very hard on holding images that came into my mind while counting...one, I'm dreaming...two I'm dreaming etc. At a certain point the images solidified, usually a wall or a sign with writing and I was drawn into a dreamscene. Some nights I see the solid images for a second or two but they then vanish. Most nights I cannot generate them.

I do not use a passive focusing, rather it is intense concentration and I'm sure that the forced zhine I have been doing for the last 15 months or so is connected with my little success.

My only doubts concern how we can be sure a WILD is a WILD. For example last night I was looking for the images and realised my legs were thrashing about in the bed...then I appreciated they could not be. I felt my body in the bed and tried but could not move my arms. Then I became completely awake. Had instead I seen the images and been drawn into the dream I might have assumed a WILD. Whereas it would really have been a false awakening from a dream turning into an LD.

Owen

Dear Owen

My answer to your question were: You displayed a more or less clear, but continuous consciousness while entering the dreamstate. And you have already been dreaming (at least part of you: your legs and the parts of brain connected with the legs, to make it simple) Continuous consciousness is the main characterisation of a WILD in my eyes. I even agree including small gaps in consciousness in the definition of WILD, but they should not be longer than a minute or so (if that matters in any way for the experiencing subject.)

It is interesting, that you make your way into the dream by using force and will. For me it is different in the last weeks. I didn't practice for LD, only watched imagery while entering dreamstate, with the "effortless" intention and a yearning to get lucid somehow. Had two lucid dreams during Xmas by "doing" so.

All in all there is too much going on in waking life, as to post here frequently, but I hope I'll return next year, presumably in February. I'm happy that in waking life some of my dreams come true now and materialising them is the work I'm doing. I feel as if there will be a closer interweaving of day and dream in my life in the next years. All in all I can say, that the skills useful for LDing and the experiences in LDing serve me very well in waking life: I'm more able to consciously intend changes and I can better create loving situations. This increasing freedom is maybe the greatest reward of being lucid.

More light!

Yours Ralf

Dear Owen & Ralf,

Owen: Thanks for your post regarding recent WILD accomplishments. Your approach ("focusing very hard on holding images that came into my mind while counting...one, I'm dreaming...two I'm dreaming") is a good reminder that exploring personal styles pays off.

Regarding your question about WILDs ("how we can be sure a WILD is a WILD"): Sometimes it can indeed be hard to determine! Recognizing the actual onset of dreaming is certainly more difficult when the transition includes the completely reasonable and vividly sensational impression of one's legs thrashing about as opposed to a sudden appearance of bizarre, anomalous imagery. I agree with your assessment that, in the account you related, it would seem to have been a false awakening from a dream turning into an LD. A fine distinction!

Ralf: Wishing you the joy of unexpected but well-deserved lucidity in your busy days ahead, and the best of all possibilities to you & Astrid as your dreams manifest!

And to all, a WILD New Year, Keelin

Calling All Oneironauts!

You are hereby enthusiastically encouraged, and warmly invited, to join us in a return to the ever-dreamy Kalani Retreat Center on the Big Island of Hawaii for the upcoming "Dreaming and Awakening" retreat, Friday May 9 through Sunday, May 18, 2003!

Please visit TLI's website for details, online registration, scholarship applications, and testimonials from former "DreamCampmates". http://www.lucidity.com/DAAK03/index.html

If you have any questions about the retreat, please don't hesitate to contact us (you'll find a direct contact link on the website).

Hope to meet many of you there! Keelin

Dear Oneironauts,

Esteemed writer and fellow DreamCamper Bucky McMahon knows how to tell a dream -- and more. ;) Be sure to catch the full story in this month's Esquire magazine (February 2003 issue)!

"Adventures in My Bed" will bring back fond memories of last November's Dreaming and Awakening Retreat for all of us who attended, and no doubt inspire others who read it to wonder what fantastic lucid dreams may lie within their own nightly reach.

MAHALO, Bucky, for a most excellent article -- and especially for the treasured memory of your bright wit and beaming smile that told us, before you even said a word, that your night's lucid adventures had been beyond your other wildest dreams.

Abundant aloha to all, Keelin

Dear dreaming friends!

Jean Campbell from the World Dreams Peace Bridge asked all members to forward this message. I'm glad I joined in that group lately and ask you to support this worthy project, that fosters peace in a dreamy way.

Remember that prayers DO help!

Yours Ralf

http://home.t-online.de/home/Ralf.Penderak/index.htm

I copied the following from the World Dreams Peace Bridge website:

Peaceful Solutions Dream-In

On January 18, 2003, while thousands marched in protest against the U.S. military buildup in the Persian Gulf, as a possible prelude to war, an AOL poll showed that 67% of those who voted saw war as inevitable.

We do not believe that war is inevitable, and we do believe that the ordinary people of the world can unite to dream of peace. We invite you to join us during the week of February 8-15 in a "Peaceful Solutions Dream In."

This action is easy, and it's free. Just ask yourself each night before sleeping: "How can I (and my friends) promote world peace and prevent war?" Expect an answer from your dreams.

You can share your dreams, if you'd like, by either posting them to the World Dreams Peace Bridge web site in the form below [If you are on the site, of cause... Ralf] or at the Peace Bridge discussion group, which you can join by sending a post to worlddreams-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Thank you for joining us.

P.S.

The web page of the dream - in is:

http://www.worlddreamspeacebridge.org/dream-in.htm

Ralf

Not everyone on this Lucid Dreaming Forum shares that point of view, but isn't it nice to have the freedom to express it?

Sincerely, Reverie

Dear Reverie!

I like your ways... and I wanted to cause some reaction by being so "overly - simplifying", at least I didn't expect to post this without causing any discussion here. In fact, now that I think about it, I'm glad, you commented.

So, you seem to like food for your critical brain. I love that too, but there are other parts of me wanting different tastes... Isn't it nice to have the freedom of tasting different fruits? I'll quote a recent posting of mine to ASD psi dreams group for you to devour.

Dream WILD

Yours Ralf

The quote:

Hi , psi fi fans!

Skybird

Thanks for your profound thoughts: "When I recall a dream maybe I need to send good thoughts, prayers... blessings into the universe to anyone I saw in my dream."

These remind me of some passages in Radin's (1997) psi review, in this case the chapter on field consciousness:

p. 157: "Neuroscientists believe that consciousness is spawned by the rich interconnections and complex information exchange among billions of neurons in the brain. If this is true, then considering the rich interconnections and information exchange among billions of intelligent minds on Earth, might this imply, that the world itself has something like a "global" mind? Recent experiments suggest that the answer may be yes."

P 160: "Beyond this, as philosopher Evan Fales and sociologist Barry Markowsky of the University of Iowa suggested after reviewing the Maharishi effect, "Presumably, if the material world can be influenced in purposive ways by collective meditation, INANIMATE detectors could be constructed and placed at varying distances from the collective meditators." This is essentially the approach we took, although our motivations were based upon a logical extension of laboratory research on mind - matter interactions using random number generators, and not by the claims of the transcendental meditators."

P 174: "These studies also have profound implications for the understanding of social order and disorder. They suggest that a previously unsuspected cause of global violence and aggression may literally be chaotic, malevolent thoughts of a large number of people around the world. ... By contrast, peaceful protests such as those embodied by Ghandi and Martin Luther King, which fostered noble intentions among groups, may have been successful not only for psychological reasons, but also for physical reasons that we are only now beginning to glimpse."

This is much of citation. But the words of Radin brought me to let go of some of my resistance to prayer, embodied in words like: "Praying is for naive people." For me Radin's words and the findings of parapsychology mean: It is reasonable to believe that prayers do help. And the more people we get together in peaceful group meditation or prayer, the more peaceful gets the world, even on a physical level. And it also means, that my mood seemingly directly influences organic beings and matter, that is important and a confirmation for me to be positive, even when most people around me are in distress at work. Think about why everything works fine, when your happy... There is, in a way, no way to tell me apart from anything or anyone. This may sound contradictory to what I said earlier. But still it means, that we have a choice, what to think, how to feel, what to "radiate" in our environment, which we (co-) create.

So, let us pray for peace...

Ralf

'only the dead have seen an end to war'

Ralph:

If the there truly is a global mind, then it has a real self-image problem!

Three things:

First, believe what you wish. As you've noted, great personal strength, and happiness, can be drawn from a firm belief in something. Anything.

Second, I feel compelled to ask THE question: If prayer works, especially when practiced in unison by many, then why do so many large groups who pray with great faith and conviction (i.e. the millions who are starving and suffering unbelievable oppression in Africa and Asia, and uncounted Christians and Moslems worldwide) rarely if ever get that for which they collectively wish?

Third: Aside from the power that could possibly be gleaned by consciously "touching" the prayers eminating from others, what does any of this have to do with lucidity? I think this site was created to advance lucidity, not to promote mystic solutions to political nightmares whose causes and prevention lay beyond the reach of almost everyone.

Please forgive my gruff tone, but as an American I've been enduring this quest of our unelected president and his cronies for quite some time now, and both question the validity of attacking Iraq and the odd ignorance by our government of the other troubles plaguing the world (i.e. failing economies, rampant 3rd world famine and disease, and Africa's unending attempt to destroy itself through petty civil war and "revolution." And what ever happened to Osama Bin Laden?).

Save for convincing powerless people that they are "doing something," prayer, no matter how it is defined, isn't going to help. Only time, plus a little less nationalism, religious fever, and dependence on fossil fuels, mixed with real love and compassion, will heal the earth's current disease...that, or a collision with a very large asteroid!

Peter

P.S. If you want a mystical solution, how about directly visiting the dreams of George Bush and Saddam Hussein, and trying to soften their obsessions from the inside? ;)

Dear Peter!

Thanks for your clear words. Hope to find lucid answers.

"If the there truly is a global mind, then it has a real self-image problem!"

Had that over and over...

"Three things:

First, believe what you wish. As you've noted, great personal strength, and happiness, can be drawn from a firm belief in something. Anything."

Did I only talk of beliefs and not of evidence? Why don't you look at the evidence and comment it?

"Second, I feel compelled to ask THE question: If prayer works, especially when practiced in unison by many, then why do so many large groups who pray with great faith and conviction (i.e. the millions who are starving and suffering unbelievable oppression in Africa and Asia, and uncounted Christians and Moslems worldwide) rarely if ever get that for which they collectively wish?"

Did I say: "Prayer helps in any case as stand alone method?"

And if you dare and follow the psi - speculation, isn't the unbelievable situation a global one? Everybody is touched somehow.

I wish there would be no hunger in the world. We agree in that. I know that it needs action on many layers to foster world peace. And, seemingly like you, I am very depressed and angry about the situation.

THE question is hard to answer, although experimentation supports the view, that thought / emotion /intention can affect matter and biological systems despite physical shielding. Like I said, there are many tasty fruits. And mostly more than one factor or explanation or solution to a situation.

"Third: what, aside from the power that could possibly be gleaned by consciously "touching" the prayers eminating from others, does any of this have to do with lucidity? I think this site was created to advance lucidity, not to promote mystic solutions to political nightmares whose causes and prevention lay beyond the reach of almost everyone."

The idea of some (serious, scientific, "anti - mystic".. ;-> ) interpretations of the quantum entanglement effect is that it expresses a fundamental web of non - local relations of objects / processes / minds. It is clear to me, that there are more interpretations to this effect. So, calling this interpretation "mystic" is itself an interpretation, if not a (dis-)qualification. "Beyond the reach" seems for me to be an expression of a materialistic worldview. And my impression is, that "time and space have run out" somehow to only look at the world like this. Talking about lucidity, I earlier said that I profit largely by the training in lucid dreams, thanks to the work of Stephen and Keelin and all the people here in the forum. And I said before, that lucidity serves me well in daily life, too. Lucidity and freedom of thought and action are very closely related, I think most of us agree in that. So why don't do reasonable things like praying for peace, dreaming for peace, talking about peace, doing things to foster peace? Many people take Aspirin for whatever reason and have scientific evidence supporting their action, as do those who use "anomalous" methods to protect their hearts. (I hope I'll find the right studies, if you ask me to ...) Although is Aspirin in the scientific community, in medical mainstream and among the users quite popular. Taking Aspirin doesn't seem to challenge their worldview. Stephen once referred to the "powerless body of ether" in that OBE believers find themselves and praised the incomparable freedom of knowing to be in dreams in a world of your own creation and acting according to that knowledge. I know he would add "95 po" my own creation, if you asked him. And maybe then say the rest is po anomalous. Possible anomalous perception. I talk about these "5 po" here, if you prefer to grab a number. And I say: Why not use abilities we have good reason to use? That is freedom. What is lucidity? Being aware of the state I'm in. Could be dreaming state, raging state, sad state, psi perceiving state. Some people seem to feel, when they are in psi mood. And for the more practical side: there are people working for peace in lucid dreaming state. Could easily make up a thread here with the subject "Praying in Lucid Dreams", but I do discuss that elsewhere (at least until now ...) And I know we focus on lucid dreams here, and myself has often called to keep that in mind. So, now I'm rambling ;)

"Please forgive my gruff tone, but as an American I've been enduring the strange quest of our unelected president and his cronies for quite some time now, and both question the validity of attacking Iraq and the odd ignorance by our government of the other troubles plaguing the world (i.e. failing economies, rampant 3rd world famine and disease, and Africa's unending attempt to destroy itself through petty civil war and "revolution." And what ever happened to Osama Bin Laden?)."

I do forgive, that you don't think like me. More people should do that. (Do what? No pun intended. Now, choose what you desire) Maybe you sensed some cuspids, they were meant to prick... I do have a lot of questions and frustrations, too, regarding world politics.

"Save for convincing powerless people that they are "doing something," prayer, no matter how it is defined, isn't going to help. Only time, plus a little less nationalism, religious fever, and dependence on fossil fuels, will heal the earth's current disease."

I agree to a lot of what you said, even in your last paragraph. If any of that helps, I would gladly be proved wrong in exchange.

Only let me quote something here (I think I used that quote before)

"When a scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right; when he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong."

Arthur C. Clarke

"Prayer is not an old woman's idle amusement. Properly understood and applied, it is the most potent instrument of action."

Mohandas K. Ghandhi (1869 - 1948)

Both quotes stem from my "psi - bible" ,Dean Radin (1997).

I pray not to get into scientism...

"Peter

P.S. If you want a mystical solution, how about directly visiting the dreams of George Bush and Saddam Hussein, and trying to soften their obsessions from the inside?"

Not only me or you must have thought about that. But how many people pray for peace, how many for war? And how do you learn how to do it? Do you think its emotional easy to share someone else's dreams or soul, if he is one who has murdered or who is willing to send millions of people to death? Many "psychics" find that hard to bear.

Thank you for your challenging questions. They are helpful to get clearer, at least for me. And I enjoy being online here again.

Robert: The wording may be right, at last. I don't want to go into details in what sense I mean that, now. Bedtime...

Peaceful dreams

Yours Ralf

Ralph:

It's wonderful to be subject once again to your responses!

Just one more thing -- please please please don't assume that I am without spirituality because I am not willing to accept as proof statements, suggestions and conjecture that have no foundation in fact (no matter how impressive the person who makes the suggestion).

Proof in the end is proof -- a measurable result of an event that you know (not assume or believe) caused it.

And mysticism is always mysticism. It is not an interpretation, it is a definition, a state of being that does not require a firmly grounded foundation. Now, there's not necessarily anything wrong with that, but try not to shove it aside as a real obstacle to acceptance of the things you are discussing.

And, finally, would psychics who are capable of communicating through dreams with world leaders really not do it because it is too distressing? My God, I hope not!

Keep up the good works, and the excellent contributions!

Peter

Dear Friends,

It seems time once again to post a friendly reminder regarding the intended focus of our Forum -- which is primarily that of an educational discussion site on the topic of Lucid Dreaming. While we understand that conversations tend to wander naturally, ideally, we would like this site to function as an extension of TLI's FAQ with the added dimension of your personal lucid dream experiences and on-topic questions and commentary. We all make the Forum what it is, and with this in mind, we ask that everyone please think about the purposes behind their contributions prior to posting them.

We are currently in the process of redesigning the format of our Forum. Although this may take a few months, our goal is to make it easier to find basic information for newcomers (i.e.: not to bury it in the Archives!), as well as offer a fresh, rewarding and worthwhile read to all who visit. We would welcome your suggestions.

We look forward to your continued sharing with us and hope this message will bring out the best in all of us who seek to be "oneironauts" (explorers of the dream world!) in the truest sense.

With gratidude, Your Forum Moderators

Hi, TLI,

Suggested suggestion for redesign of TLI sight;

Many of us use the sight as an adjunct to are excercises, dream diary's, reality tests and so on. The way in which each one of us does this will vary.

For instance I'll bet that a number of us execute reality tests as we log onto the TLI site because we are prompted to do so by the very nature of what we are about to examine.

Therefore would it not be fun and functional to have some kind of (optional) randomly generated pecularity happening accur on screen as we tour the site. Such as having the entire page disolve into a whirlpool that consumes itself or any other bizare and unusual image. The point being that as we become obsorbed in a dream report or whatever we are ambushed into asking ourselves if we are dreaming in a subtle and artistic way. I say subtle and artistic just because it would probably be a bit dissapointing to just have the question 'are we dreaming' flash up on screen in the manner of a microsoft word reminder (although something would be better than nothing)

Anyway, what do you think?

Hi Dreamers I live in the UK, and we don't have anything like the Lucidity Institute, or a Forum, that we can relate to. Not wanting to leave the Lucidity Forum, it would be nice to have something like it here in the UK. Chatting like this is one way to stay in touch but it is not as good as a face to face. Meeting other people with the same intrest in Lucid dreaming as you have, sharing ideas and working together as a group. Saying that it is just as hard to get induction devices such as the Nova dreamer Mask. Is their no way you at the Lucidity Institute can create a sub branch here in he UK. I am sure that their are many like me that would benifit from a sub branch, say in London, who would enjoy the oppitunity to meet with other Brits. You are so far away, and I feel so alone, it would be great to meet with others, without having a four thousand mile trip to do so.On LDs I am still getting Dreamsigns in my dreams but as yet am unable to see them for what they are until I awake and write down my dreams, and say YES now I can see these are Dreamsigns, but as yet can not make the connection in my dreams to become Lucid. Will keep trying!!! On a brighter note I am remembering a lot more dreams, and a WHOLE lot more about them, since I started my Lucid Dreaming Course. Sorry for such a long letter, Thanks for your ear. Frank

Keelin,

I have an idea if you're redoing the site.

It'd be interesting to have an area where folks could post tasks. Then when we're a bit low on ideas we could visit this area.

I'd suggest that you limit the length of each post in this area to a title and say 50 words.

Owen

Frank, I am so pleased at your level of interest. It's fabulous. I would dearly love it if there were Lucidity Institute brick-and-mortar establishments all around the world. If I could, I myself would be on my way to London to set up a presence there, just as you suggest. I love London, and I love lucid dreaming... and would do it in a heartbeat!

For now, all we have is the Institute's presense here in Cyberspace. Even here in the U.S., we don't meet face to face unless we make specific arrangements to do so. It's both exciting and inconvenient that lucid dreamers connected with this organization are scattered all over the globe.

Yes, it's great to meet in person, whether it's at an academic conference, someone's home, an office, or even in Hawaii near your friendly neighborhood active volcano! Without going into details, you can probably imagine the ongoing funding challenge to keep our lucid dreaming dream alive.

But I always try to be optimistic. Perhaps what you could do is try to locate lucid dreaming afficionados geographically close to you, and arrange to get together with some regularity. There might be some way we can assist you with this.

We enjoy your participation here, however! Even if you become involved with local dreamers, we hope you stay with us here. In the end, the Lucidity Institute is a group of people, whether we meet in person or online.

Thank you for being part of the dream,

Reverie

Dear Robert and Owen,

Thank you for your very thoughtful ideas! We will surely take them into consideration in the redesigning of our Forum.

Inspiring dreams to all! Keelin

Near Lucid Dreams?

Been having quite a lot of this type of dream passage recently, doing tasks but not being lucid - both these below last night.

"''I am looking down at a smooth, lake and floating above. I look down and see a huge orange goldfish, about one metre long, just below the surface. I fly around following the fish. I slow down to a stop. I make an effort to speed up and succeed in this. I think that normally I have difficulty making myself fly faster and feel pleased. I float near to a post a vertical post and slow down. I push myself away from the post and speed up gain''"

"''I am walking with Tony Blair, our prime minister. I think about how faces of familiar people can change. I look at him carefully and feel that his face has indeed changed. I turn away and look back at him several times and try and succeed in transforming his face on each occasion. I feel quite pleased with this success. We carry on walking'"

Owen

Dear Owen,

As you've described them, these experiences sound like what we might call "tacit" lucid dreams. The dictionary defines "tacit" as "understood without being openly expressed". When you say, "I think that normally I have difficulty making myself fly faster and feel pleased", this sounds more like reflective thinking than simply dream control. So it appears you had some level of dream awareness, just not the degree of clarity we'd call highly lucid.

I've had similar experiences, most often with recurring activities I've come to associate with dreaming, such as gliding down stairs, skateboarding, or dancing en point in bare feet. When I dream of doing these things, I'll often continue enjoying the action without much thought as to what else I might do in this unlimited state. There's just a pleasant, background understanding that where I am is not in waking reality.

Would like to be there now, come to think of it! Keelin

Hi Frank,

Your plea to meet on a physical plane with other oneironauts brought a sweet, nostalgic tug to my heart. About ten years ago, I moved to Portland, Oregon for a four-year stay. One of the hardest parts about leaving the Bay Area was that I could no longer attend TLI's Onerionaut Research Group (ORG) meetings. Indeed, there is something very special about sharing face to face. So once I got settled, I began asking around for lucid dream groups to join in my new neighborhood. Alas, casual inquiries led nowhere!

Then I began to wonder... If I couldn't find the lucid dreamers, maybe I could draw them to me. What would happen if I tried to start a group? This was something I'd never done before and immediately I felt a little inward thrill. In the next moment however, I bumped into my own self-doubt. What did I have to offer besides endless enthusiasm for the topic? And exactly what was my goal? After musing a bit, I realized I'd never done TLI's home-study "Course in Lucid Dreaming" and that it would be much more fun to do with a group. It would also offer an excellent format and focus for meetings. So I made up a flyer and posted it all over town, offering my home as a meeting place and myself as facilitator. And voila! A lucid dream group was born! On hearing about it, TLI offered the group a generous discount on the Courses.

I had never led a group before and the idea of speaking in front of others (even as a mere facilitator) absolutely terrified me. So, naturally, I practiced in my lucid dreams for the gatherings to come. Then, as my confidence grew, I began to realize I actually did have something extra to share. It was the depth of knowledge and understanding of lucid dreaming I'd gained from being in the fine company of Stephen LaBerge and the dedicated ORG members -- and it was simply too good a treasure to keep to myself.

As it turned out, this experience was a major turning point in my life. After leading a few more workshops, I invited those who wished to explore further to form an ongoing group. We met every three weeks for over a year (and then I moved back to Cali). To this day, I'm still in touch with some of these dreamers and we've even managed a few reunions.

I offer this story as an example of just one way to take a positive step towards making your own dream come true. Why not give it a try? And if you do, let us all know how it works out for you.

Bright dreams to all, Keelin