Keelin,

That's an inspiring story above. I'm also sorry that here where I live that there's no group of people that I can meet up with. I feel now that I know enough to help others to have the limited success I have. The forum is a great help even though there are periods when I don't post a lot.

Maybe at some point I'll lose interest in LDing but I suspect I'll always have LDs. Actually if I have a good cluster my will to doing reality tests declines, its as though a craving for LDs is satisfied.

Regarding the tacit lucid dreams...I had another last night.....I was in a laboratory with a man and woman, strangers. I turned to them both and said that this is a dream. I said to the man that he was a figment of my imagination and gave him a playful push backwards.

It has continued to puzzle me why I do much much less state testing and thinking about LDs when I'm dreaming than when I'm awake. It's not really coming through much. What about you, you've been doing this for decades?

Owen

Dear lucid friends!

I'm glad to see all these vivid discussions here. As some of you might have noticed, I'm absent, digging in the fields of psi dreams. But nonetheless I'm (at least superficially) reading the posts here.

The line of discussion I'm referring to now started with an invitation of mine to join in praying for world peace in dreams.

I added the words "Remember that prayers DO help!"

which caused some discussion with Reverie:

"Not everyone on this Lucid Dreaming Forum shares that point of view, but isn't it nice to have the freedom to express it?"

with Robert:

'only the dead have seen an end to war'

And some with Peter (only loosely citing, here...):

"I feel compelled to ask THE question: If prayer works, especially when practiced in unison by many, then why do so many large groups who pray with great faith and conviction (i.e. the millions who are starving and suffering unbelievable oppression in Africa and Asia, and uncounted Christians and Moslems worldwide) rarely if ever get that for which they collectively wish?"

and

"It's wonderful to be subject once again to your responses!

Just one more thing -- please please please don't assume that I am without spirituality because I am not willing to accept as proof statements, suggestions and conjecture that have no foundation in fact. Proof in the end is proof -- a measurable result of an event that you know (not assume or believe) caused it."

On another note, Peter and the Forum moderators reminded me to keep the focus on lucid dreaming. The moderators:

"It seems time once again to post a friendly reminder regarding the intended focus of our Forum -- which is primarily that of an educational discussion site on the topic of Lucid Dreaming."

I wrote earlier about how I see connections of praying and lucid dreaming. You might easily see, that every mental task can be performed in lucid dreams. And if praying can be no application of LDing, I don't know, why. And if you look at how effective praying for mental and bodily health can be, then I wonder, why you think this topic being out of focus. We have with our lucid dreaming skills a powerful tool to transform our lives. Why not use that skills for fostering world peace?

And then - for the educational aspect - I at least find this conversation educational. Or can't you learn anything by it?

So, and now back to Peter's arguments:

Proof in the end is proof -- a measurable result of an event that you know (not assume or believe) caused it."

I provided proof earlier and asked you to discuss the proof. You didn't do that. Maybe my quotation wasn't detailed enough. And not everyone can relate to the books I have read. So I did a short online research for articles touching our subject.

I ask you and friendly remind you - all - please and one more time - to look at the evidence. And then see, if you can accept, that my statement is founded in "facts", as Peter so insisted.

I'm hoping that the following articles can somehow supply an anchoring of this worthy discussion in the body of scientific proof. And of cause I hope this may continue to be an educational discussion. I still have to read these articles in detail, and I think, it may take some time to digest all this. The authors of these articles are not no - name, but on the top of scientific research.

I repeat here an earlier statement of mine in this thread:

"It is reasonable to believe that prayers do help."

And I beg you, one more time, please look at the evidence supporting the word "reasonable"!

Yours Ralf

Empirical Explorations of Prayer, Distant Healing, and Remote Mental Influence William G. Braud

http://www.integral-inquiry.com/docs/649/empirical.pdf

Study on "Feeling of being stared at" Schlitz, Marilyn J.; LaBerge, Stephen

http://mars3.gps.caltech.edu/ctt/show212/article1.shtml

Does Psi Exist? Replicable Evidence for an Anomalous Process of Information Transfer Daryl J. Bem and Charles Honorton

http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/dbem/does_psi_exist.html

If it is true:

Does it then follow that if all the expert lucid dreamers pray in their lucid dreams that all the novice would be lucid dreamers develope the ability to be expert lucid dreamers then there will be a measurable rise in the number of lucid dreams experienced by the novice lucid dreamers?

Do the ELD's (expert lucid dreamers) not do so because they know that a number of the NLD's (novice lucid dreamers) will then use the power of lucid dream praying to gain undue influence over others and maybe even the course of history?

I dont know Ralph, seems to me like your banging the drum over your political point of view and tacking on, 'oh by the way this is really about lucid dreaming because I can reassert my political ideas in my lucid dreams'.

'Cry havock and let slip the dogs of war'

"If it is true:"

If what exactly is true?

My exact point is that this is the Lucidity institute not the pray for peace institute.

Dear Forum Friends,

As previously acknowledged, it's quite natural for conversations to drift, but no matter what the topic, we all need to be aware that here, online, we do not have the luxury of seeing face-to-face expression. We miss out on the subtle smile of mutual understanding, the silent nod of the head, the slightly raised eyebrow of questioning. What this means is that the tone of our written words is left to be interpreted by the individual personality and mood-of-the-moment of the reader. So I ask now, that we all keep in mind a wise motto: Don't get angry. Get lucid.

And Ralf, we can indeed say more on the topic of lucidity (both in dreaming and in waking) and the effects of what we do with it on both inner and outer realms. I will try to respond more fully on this soon. Unfortunately, today cannot be the day as time does not allow.

Warm light to all, Keelin

Hello, Dreamers. It's proving a tough thing to do, and the line may be indeed be both gray and fuzzy, but I personally appreciate all efforts to keep us focused on topic. I strongly suspect most Forum members prefer that we not unintentionally morph into a political forum... despite anyone's sincerity or good intentions. Thank you all, dreaming friends, for giving this notion some thought. :-)

Reverie

Dear Keelin and Robert

Thanks for responding.

I agree we have to take care how to use words. And I think it is good to speak out clear, what sometimes includes controversial discussion.

I meant to make an invitation to join peaceful dreaming ELSEWHERE. I think, that is and was clear. And didn't mean to really discuss this here. It is of cause clear, I'm supporting peaceful solutions. That is a political statement, especially in these days. But I don't want to say more to the specific political situation here in the forum, and I think, I didn't until now. I do discuss that elsewhere.

What I find worthy discussing here is mainly the role of psi for dreams. I mean that what and how we are dreaming may have more or different impact on waking life, than we expect. Prayer is only one of the "mental" phenomena researched by parapsychology. We discussed other phenomena called "telepathy", "precognition", "deja vu" and similar here.

Before I sent the invitation to our group here, I hesitated. I wasn't sure, where to that might lead, and if it would be welcome. It is clear to me, that this subject has political and religious connotations. That makes it hard to keep detached. But it has scientific and experiential and spiritual aspects, too. And it does relate to lucid dreaming, same as meditation, a well discussed subject here. So, I thought, this might be challenging, but at least situated at the rim of our focus here.

Robert, I didn't totally understand your last sentence, although I understand the single words. I think maybe it is better to not go deeper into the personal meaning here...

I really look forward to further interesting discussion.

Into the light

Yours Ralf

P.S. Reverie

You see I agree with you, not making this a place of political discussion. Certainly we all are political, and our presence here in the forum or elsewhere always had and still has political meaning, I think.

Ralph:

Though there is certainly nothing wrong with a bit of pot-stirring, and we can and should always expect our larger personal feelings and beliefs to wander into our posts, I think that what's really being spoken so much more gracefully by Keelin and Reverie is that this is not the forum for espousing those beliefs, no matter how true you feel them to be. I know we have forum pages (i.e., Synchronicity, Precognition, Remote Viewing, Space and Time) which allow us to mutually peek into psi -- I've caused some trouble there myself -- but this site has always been careful to center on the subject of bettering lucid dreaming. Sure, there are countless places lucidity can be found in life; including in prayer. But, when you attempt to prove, or even defend, personal beliefs that you hold as truth you will stretch to the breaking point the beautiful integrity of this site.

We obviously welcome your views -- I brighten whenever I see your name atop a fresh post. But, Ralph, all we ask is that you try to keep in mind that many of our valued forum participants will bristle when subjected to ideas involving prayer and politics. This is personal stuff, and, though your intentions are no doubt admirable, trying to get people to adapt their personal viewpoint to yours (or even to understand perfectly your personal viewpoint) is not where this site wants to go.

We use this site to learn about lucidity. From that we will grow, and some of us might even use it to transform our lives. How lucid dreaming transforms our lives comes later, after the work of this site is done.

Please understand that we care about your opinions, and I for one enjoy hearing them. But this site's expectations, though I believe truly profound, are limited to the advancement of lucidity itself. To explore every facet of personal reality that lucid dreams can touch would simply spread us all too thin, and perhaps generate too much animosity to advance anything at all.

I know I've rambled a bit, and perhaps am being redundant at this point, but these points are worth repeating. We want to hear your ideas. We even want to hear about what you believe as it relates to lucidity. But, in this forum, we might not be inclined to believe what you believe.

The best of dreams to you, Ralph, and please keep the posts coming!

Peter

Dear Peter

Thanks for all the effort you put in this thread of discussion. I highly regard your patience and understanding.

I think, I've said all, what I wanted to say to this subject now. And given there is no more input(maybe Keelin wants to add something, given the time) I feel this is a good point to end (at least pause for some time ;) ) this discussion.

I'm thanking all contributors and all listeners/ silent readers for your attention.

I'll keep the posts coming for sure.

Tons of lucids for everyone!

Yours Ralf

Hi Owen,

While I have just a few moments here, I'd like to respond to a comment you shared awhile back:

"It has continued to puzzle me why I do much much less state testing and thinking about LDs when I'm dreaming than when I'm awake. It's not really coming through much."

In an excerpt from Lynne Levitan's article "A Fool's Guide to Lucid Dreaming"* , she is responding to the question of why we do stupid things in dreams, but I think her explanation will address your observation as well:

"Another possibility is that the dreaming brain is actually less intelligent than the waking brain, at least sometimes. Perhaps there is something about the activity of the brain in REM sleep that, on occasion, makes the dreamer's actions seem like those of a brain-damaged person.

The "brain damage" theory is plausible, given that the electrical activity of the brain varies tremendously in REM sleep, from less to more than in waking. Maybe our inner experiences change along with that activity, ranging from dull and irrational, to ecstatic and sharp-witted."

This theory seems to well explain why we just don't get it sometimes or why we often don't reach even the lowest level of self-reflection that would inspire a state test. It is simply far easier to get caught up in what we believe to be really happening, and as we know, the dreaming brain can do an incredible job of creating all the details to support our most absurd illusions!

BTW, I would encourage all to read the entire article which can be found at: http://www.lucidity.com/NL62.FoolsGuide.html

Reflect on! ;) Keelin

Keelin, thanks for that feedback and the article.

I think the quotes you give are more oriented to why we don't recognise that we are dreaming.

I was more focusing on that the concept of lucid dreaming occurs to me several times an hour or more often while awake.......why doesn't it happen this often while dreaming. I'm not suggesting that I should become lucid on each occasion, just that in the dream I'd think about dreaming. You are I think involved in a very serious perhaps professional way with lucid dreaming, I'd expect you to think about LD matters quite a lot in dreams, just as I think about my non-dreaming connected work and colleagues.....

Owen

I seem to experience very little thought of any kind in my dreams, lucid or otherwise. There's very little "internal dialogue". I have to force myself to think anything, such as where I might like to travel or other actions I may wish to take. Is this true for most of us? I've been practicing state testing assiduously for quite a while, now, but still have had no success triggering lucidity in the dream state, even when I fall asleep thinking about it. How could someone increase dream thought in general, does anyone know?

Hi Paul,

For me, concentrating on academic work for around four hours a day appears to increase apparent verbalised thought by myself and other dream characters whilst dreaming. Focusing on reading and writting can help to (hmm wonder where I can do some writting?)

Also learning new skills, breaking with routine, and experiencing new things has been shown to increase the amount of rem sleep that individuals have as well as the incedence of remembering dreams and reported vividness.

So move town, learn a new trade, change your name, and take up a new hobby.

Rob ;)

Rob, I'm going hanggliding the weekend before Kalani. Really! Lookout Mountain, Georgia. Is that breaking routine enough?

A good place to do writting is on a typewritter.

Dreamily, Paul

Paul, if it works then I guess so.

I will be routinely breaking with routine on a regular basis in my rem tonight.

Rob

What are some good ways to induce really wild dreams/nightmares (besides illegal drugs)? I've heard there are some vitamins that help, some foods. Anyone?

Hi Richard,

B6, Salvia Divinoruim, always read the label.

If you enter these two terms via this sites keyword Search you'll gain further info.

Daniel Sorbets, Sage Wisdom site is v.informative regarding Salvia.

Rob

Thanks, I'll look into it. Also, anyone know of any non-food/drug methods, such as new social situations, unusual sleep patterns, etc. I'm wary to try Salvia, even though I know it will probably work, because I'm looking for a long-term solution to the fact that I only obtain lucidity when my dreams are REALLY bizarre, and most of the time they are REALLY mundane.

Dr.E

Aloha, Dear Oneironauts!

We warmly invite each and every one of you to join us for the upcoming Dreaming and Awakening Retreat -- Friday, October 24 through Sunday, November 2, 2003 -- on the Big Island of Hawaii! Details, online registration, and scholarship applications are available at: http://lucidity.com/daa.

If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact us. And if you're wondering what it might be like to participate in one of our programs, you'll find a variety of testimonials from alumni at: http://www.lucidity.com/DAAK03/testimonials.html.

We look forward to meeting and dreaming with those of you who will be able to join us in creating yet another memorable adventure in exploring the wondrous realm of lucid dreaming!

Tropical dreams to all, Keelin

Keelin,

I'll be there in spirit. You might even see me in a dream...

Paul

Dear Paul,

You will be warmly welcomed in any wavelength, shape-shift, or phantom form.

Aloha! Keelin

koan, koan on derange

Have you ever wondered what pingpong would be like in the matrix universe?

Keelin:

These Dreaming and Awakening Retreats in Hawaii sound absolutely wonderful and I would love to join everyone at one of them. Unfortunately, there's no way I could possible make it to the one coming up in October. I do look forward to hearing all about it though! Do you know when the next one will be? I would like to start planning for it now so that I will be able to attend.

Blue Topaz

Hi

In case I was too obscure, the highlighted words in my last two messages are links; "koan, koan on derange" links to a strange little provocative phrase generator; it's actually called "zentences" on the website. The "pingpong" link takes you to a bizarre pingpong game that's very matrix-y. Both are very dreamy, and the pingpong one is downright hilarious, at least IMNSHO.

Dear Peter and fellow dreamers!

Ah, yes, and where would we be without our waking lives? (Well, of course, I agree, I'd rather be lucid dreaming!) Indeed, they (that is our waking lives) do often take more time to tend to in ways we'd rather they not, and I suspect many of our dedicated dreamers are experiencing just this.

I should say "were" now that the comments and questions are once again appearing here and inspiring thoughtful response. And so this would be the perfect opportunity for me to bid a Warm Welcome to all our new Forum members -- and equally Warm Greetings to those of you who have been with us throughout the dips and surges in our ongoing discussions.

I have surely missed the more frequent contact and exchanges with all of you that typically brighten my days and hope to be more in touch once again.

My heartfelt thanks to fellow moderator Peter for continuing to keep us woven together and thoroughly inspired!

Bright dreams to all, Keelin

Hello fellow dreamers, I had a dream this morning where everything seemed so normal and I was sure I was not dreaming but inexplicably I could float. I thought, "Boy I have got to write my friends at the Lucidity Forum and tell them; they'll be amazed!*/+$#?!!. Ha Ha. Then what I was saying sunk in some more, and I thought I should do a serious reality test just incase. I lept into the air and begin to fly. Shigrinned and amazed, I began telling those around me that I am dreaming and unfortunately they were all now only part of my dream! Lucidly yours, Ted

Hey, I was woken up last night by the doorbell ringing continually for quite a while. It was around 3am and I panicked thinking it must be something urgent. I lept out of bed and called out of the window, to say that I was on my way. I threw on a dressing gown and went to the front door. There was not a soul in sight, it was a very frosty morning and everyone was probably tucked up in bed. I thought - oh I must have dreamt it. I did a reality check just in case, but I really was awake. I was amazed at how realistic the doorbell sounded, but I guess it must really have been a dream.

Isn't it odd how sounds can manifest themselves in dreams, I guess it could have been the noise of a car horn or anything really. Pitty it woke me up completely, in the past I wonder if such things have sparked up a lucid dreams.

Hello, Geoff.

Interestingly enough, a sound can indeed occur in a dream-- lucid or otherwise-- without any outside sound at all to trigger it (although that too can happen). And as you observed, it can seem incredibly realistic.

What people sometimes forget is that anything sensory we experience can, in effect, be hallucinated in a dream. The same brain that gives you the experience of seeing, smelling, tasting, feeling, and hearing in your waking hours can give you equally vivid representations of these things during dreaming. The only difference is, in a dream, the sensations are usually created without the help of real-world outside sensory information.

We tend to think of dreams mostly in terms of imagery, and aren't necessarily very aware of other sensations in dreams unless they are something quite striking. But once we start to look for them, we find they're there.

It's an interesting project to try and notice the presence of various sensations in our dreams. Beyond being of interest in its own right, this practice of paying close attention to sensations in our dreams would seem to make lucidity more likely.

The next time something does wake you up completely like that (whether it's from the outside world or your inner one), wouldn't it be fun to try to go right back to sleep and have a lucid dream?-- a Wake Induced Lucid Dream.

All the best dreams, Reverie

Interesting comments Reverie, I agree with you on this.

I do hope to post a lucid dream soon, but in the meantime here is a non-lucid one.

Last night I had a series of dreams for what seemed like over an hour. I remember quite well what was going on in my dream(s), my recall was very high.

I was battling hard to try to turn a very depressing dream situation into one that was more cheerful. This was really hard work and I just couldn't quite succeed. I wish that I had realised what was going on and had become lucid. I think I was very close to becoming lucid, maybe next time I will recognise the signs better.

In my dream, I was in a distant land, somewhere in the far east. It was hot but very overcast. Everyone spoke a foreign language. I got seperated from my friends and spent most of the time looking for them. I got lost many times, and had loads of trouble with accomodation and loosing all my money etc. It was a frustrating experience, and also a lonely depressing one.

This can be a pretty common theme for me. I felt like this was a familiar situation and that I ought to be able to manipulate it to make it better. I tried to think of a tropical island, with me scuba diving with all my friends.

I was conscious that I was in some way directing my dream, but my direction was very poor. Pitty it didn't gel in my mind that I was dreaming and become fully lucid.

Never mind maybe next time.

Hi Reverie and Geoff,

Thanks, Rev, for the good reminder of how amazing our brains truly are at creating the mental models we take for reality -- whether awake or adream. And while it is indeed interesting to focus on various sensations in dreams (remember the NightLight experiment "To Touch A Dream" comparing a pinch, caress, and press? NL6.3.94), it's also a good way to stay engaged in the dream, which, as we know, helps prolong the state (lucid or not).

A relevant passage from a later issue of NightLight (NL7.3-4.95) states: "A problem with using vision to stabilize a lucid dream is the fact that when a dream ends, the visual sense fades first. Other senses may persist longer, with touch being among the last to go. The first sign that a lucid dream is about to end is usually a loss of color and realism in visual imagery. The dream may lose visual detail and begin to take on a cartoon-like or washed-out appearance. This may all happen very fast; within a few seconds, the dream can fade to black, leaving nothing visual to focus on! For this reason, one might speculate that focus on sensory modalities other than vision may be more useful to stabilize dreams. As it turns out, one would be right. [For full article on prolonging lucid dreams, see http://lucidity.com/NL7.34.RU.SpinFlowRub.html].

And Geoff, thanks for sharing the non-lucid dream in which you recognize recurring themes (losing things, loads of trouble, getting lost) which resulted in frustration and depression. Excellent! You now have everything you need to go lucid next time if you set your intention correctly. Rehearsal will help. By imagining a similar scenario and feeling the natural emotional reactions you will likely have again (the stronger, the better, in this case), you can prepare your mind to respond differently to the situation. For example: I can't find my car! This is sooooo frustrating!! Oh, wait a minute, I've felt this way before ... hmmmmm ... must be time for a reality check. ;)

Sweet dreams to all, Keelin

Hi Ted,

Thanks for sharing your lucid dream -- which has inspired the question below for one and all:

Do you believe that those "others" who populate our nocturnal adventures are doomed to be merely unfortunate bystanders (i.e.: just dream characters) even in our most lucid dreams?

Okay, I'll admit this is something of a "Trick" question, but I'm curious to hear what our oneironauts think. And, after all, it IS Halloween!

May we all be Treated to lucid dreams tonight!

Certainly bewitched, rarely bothered, and eternally bewildered, Keelin

Keelin and all,

Had a very short lucid dream last night that I feel compelled to capture in writing.

In a way, it represents a bit of a break through for me, and I feel sure that it was inspired by this forum and the kind encouragement I have recieved from you guys, thankyou.

I dreamt last night that I was studying for some professional exams as part of my work. This was a bit of culture shock for me, since I hadn't sat an exam since studying fulltime some 20 years ago. I felt under a lot of pressure, because this time I was working and studying.

I was getting behind with the reading. I had this weeks reading, plus all the other previous weeks to catch up on. I felt very guilty, and decided to make a special trip to the office at the weekend, to collect my notes and begin my studying. I remembered thinking - oh my god I don't even know what the course subjects are. (The above situation is a pretty common dream scenario for me, one that I still hope to recognise whilst in a dream)..

I started driving to the office; At this point it became very difficult to remember the way or to work the car. I became more and more upset and disallusioned by the whole experience.

I found I had to to focus real hard to make the car go, or to read road signs etc. I gradually became aware that I was actually directing the dream. One minute I had a passenger who was helping, then I ditched him because he wasn't helping me much, the next minute I ditched the car altogether and started looking on foot.

Then I thought, oh this is all a waste of time because in these situations I never find my way, so I'll never find my office, or my notes, so I may as well give up and invent something else less challenging. It was at this point it dawned on me that it was odd that I could make these choices, and also that getting hopelessly lost was very familiar.

I decided that the familiarity was that I was in this dreamworld place. I realised that I was in fact dreaming. At this point I conjured up the most elegent reality check. I saw large single numbers as signs on a wall. They were very big and clear, nicely exagerated. I knew I had placed them there. Then I began making them change at will. Then I turned my attention to everything around, it was all beautifully vivid, not at all gray or faded (for a change). The sky was a gorgeous blue, and everything seemed vibrant.

I was very excited, I tried to calm myself down and to contemplate what was happening and what to do next, I briefly attempted flying, but the whole thing collapsed before I could even rub my hands. I then woke up.

The period of lucidity was disapointing, but the realisation that I had at last spotted one of my dreamsigns (getting lost) was a revelation.

Cheers Geoff.

Hi Keelin & Everyone,

I have had conversations with dream characters where I have told them they are not real and that I am just dreaming. My dream characters never seem surprised by my saying this but it does seem to help my lucid dreams become very vivid.

Since it's Halloween...I have to wonder about those in my dreams. Are they always just creations of my mind as I usually believe they are or...might some of them be something else? I always like to keep an open mind so I shall give the people in my lucid dreams the benefit of the doubt

Blue Topaz

Hello to all! This is my second post since I "began" the Course in July, but have hardly had time or energy to devote -- and no LDs. Still haven't begun using my Novadreamer! I thought I'd first get farther along in the Course -- but my awake life takes almost all my attention and energy.

I HAVE been able, as I'm going to bed, to listen to cd's from brainwave-entrainment.com, which help to remain conscious at deeper levels of relaxation.

Falling asleep listening to a CD last night, I heard the recorded voice suggest that I imagine throwing a ball up in the air and catching it, repeatedly. For whatever reason, I felt myself throwing a ball W-A-Y up, using all my strength. Next thing, my whole physical body really JERKED, like sometimes happens when you're starting to fall asleep or when you dream you've fallen, and it awakens you immediately.

I think the "shock" or "jerk" feeling is your dream body very quickly realigning with your physical body, coming back inside of it. I think I experienced the very initial stages of a lucid dream.

Comments, anyone?

I've read a lot of good info on The Forum, and want to thank all who have contributed.

-Karen

Hi Karen. I think you will get different answers to this question based on peoples beliefs. Someone who believes in astral projection might indeed say that the dream body is realigning with the physical as you suggest. A more scientific mind set would probably say that it's a reflex of the nervous system responding to the dreamed movement, since there is no separate dreamed body/entity to be aligned or unaligned with anything and it all takes place in the brain, or something along those lines. It sounds to me like you were close to inducing a wake initiated lucid dream, but perhaps the body was still a bit tense, or just not used to staying relaxed in the face of dreamed movements. These kinds of sensations are common when inducing w.i.l.d.

Hi Blue Topaz,

Thanks for your comments. I'm tempted to respond further, but will hold off till we hear more from others.

Hope your dreams on All Hallow's Eve were pleasant! Keelin

Hi Geoff,

Thanks for sharing your lucid dream with us. Sounds like you had a great breakthrough with the realization of familiar territory. The search for your car reminds me of a similar dream I had once in which the guidance of Stephen LaBerge came through in a voice-over to the scene: "Can't find the car? There IS no car!" A most timely reminder. ;)

So what will you do next time? Got a plan envisioned that will quickly come to mind? As you know, there's less chance of getting too cognitive and losing the dream state if you've mentally rehearsed an engaging activity. (I'm sure we've mentioned this here before, but it may be worth repeating for the sake of newcomers.)

And now that you have this dream written up, here's a perfect opportunity to let the experience you've recorded help further the understanding of lucid dreaming for all. TLI needs dedicated lucid dreamers like you -- and all who seek to call themselves true "oneironauts" -- so please, one and all, consider helping us by completing the report at: http://lucidity.com/dreams4.html. You'll have TLI's gratitude plus the joy of knowing you've helped pioneer that wondrous Land of Odd we so love adventuring within.

Lucid dreams to all, Keelin

Hi Keelin,

Thanks for the reply. I look forward to your comments and hope to hear from others as well

Yes, my dreams were mostly pleasant on All Hallow's Eve with the exception of a personal issue that I was working on in a lucid dream.

I have had some very enjoyable dreams during my recent 3 days off. I find both lucid dreaming and regular dreaming to be excellent self-help tools!

Blue Topaz

Hi Karen,

Glad to hear you're making progress with the "Course in Lucid Dreaming". I've been meaning to suggest the articles below which I believe you'll find of particular interest regarding the experience you described in your post of November 5th:

1. "How are Lucid Dreams Related to Out-of-Body Experiences (OBEs)?" http://www.lucidity.com/LucidDreamingFAQ2.html#OBE

2. "Dreaming, Illusion, and Reality" Curiosities of dreaming consciousness: Out-of-body experiences, dream telepathy, and "mutual" or "shared" dreams. http://www.lucidity.com/LD9DIR.html

3. "Varieties of Lucid Dreaming Experience" by Stephen LaBerge and Donald J. DeGracia. http://www.lucidity.com/VOLDE.html

May your adventures be fun and enlightening! Keelin

Happy Holidays!

Thanks, Ryan! Happy Xmas to all. And all the best for your new Year!

Dear Oneironauts!

A warm welcome to our new Forum members, and a wish to one and all, for the brightest of dreams in the new nights to come.

May the joy of your best dreams be manifested! Keelin & the elves of The Lucidity Institute

Thanks Keelin I hope I'll see you around here.

Hello all, I had another LD last night (DILD)and I want thank this forum and Keelin in particular for letting me take part in these discussions. The frequency of my LD experiences is definitely increasing.

I have noticed a few things in my own experiences concerning WILDs and DILDs that I wanted to get other peoples opinions on.

First DILDs: These are more awe inspiring to me. As I come to realize that I am dreaming I am really astounded to notice the detail of the dream world and how real the experiences are. I can't put into words the feelings that arise in me. For WILDs however this isn't really the case. I believe that this is due to the fact that I am entering the dream directly from the waking state and skip the stage where mind is fooled to think that the dream is real.

Also, I have proven to myself that I can remember to do "dream experiments" in both WILDs and DILDs. This is very encouraging to me to be able to bring something from the physical world into the dream world even if it is just an idea about actions that I want to take. I have noticed, however that my success in those experiments is much higher in the WILDs than the DILDs. I am theorizing that this is due to the fact that I have in general, more steady emotions in WILDs than DILDs. DILDs cause great excitement to grow inside me and WILDs are more like my day to day emotional level.

Anybody else notice any major distinctions between DILDs and WILDs other than the process of becoming lucid?

Thomas

DILDs are more colorful,vivid, brighter. They are also "deeper" than WILDs. WILDs are less emotionally intense then DILDs. I think also that WILDs are shorter in lenght then a typical DILD. Very often in WILDs you need to stabilize the dreamscape because its vibrating wildly and is pretty unstable. In WILDs you can experience a lowly detailed surrounding, sometimes without a trace of sound. In DILDs these effects are highly uncommon.

Nenad, Thanks for your input. My experiences are somwhat different. In general my WILDs are longer than DILDs. I also haven't noticed a difference in vividness between the two. Both seem extremely vivid. When I make the transition from NLD to LD however during a DILD it does seem to have a bigger "WOW" factor. In all the WILDs I have had during my life (even going back to childhood) I have always had a fairly high level of "dream control". During a DILD however the level of control seems to be somewhat less. For example I may try to fly through a wall and just bounce off or I might try to transform myself into an eagle and find that I "flick" back and forth between eagle and human. It seems, so far, to be easier to accomplish these tasks in a WILD.

I have two theories that I would love to hear others input on.

Theory one: your emotional state while in a LD affects your level of control.

Theory two: A dream can have a momentum to it. After taking an active part in the dream script it is more difficult to break out of the script and hence control the dream. In a WILD, however you have control from the very beginning and the dream momentum never really gets going therefore making it easier to control events and actions.

Your thoughts?

Thomas

Yesterday my friend with a very unusual name 'Xyrus' said he had a dream about being a cat, for about the last 2 weeks. He would be running, and then start to claw the ground to pull himself faster and this turned into him believing he was a cat. Pulling himself along the ground his 'claws' digging into the earth to get a better grip. All very well and blah blah... so what... till. Today my friend who doesn't know Xyrus tells me he has met a new friend who has a cat called....... Xyrus!?!?!?! mmmmm?????? WIERD.....

FYI

Here is what I presented in the IASD Copenhagen conference about "Wake Induced Lucid Dreams help dealing with my Fear of Death"

http://home.t-online.de/home/Ralf.Penderak/wild.htm

My heart goes out to Stephen and Keelin and all of you, who taught me lucid dreaming, which turns out to provide ways leading towards lucid living, too.

There were great presentations in Copenhagen on lucid dreaming, including presenters like Robert Waggoner, Beverly D'Urso, Jean Campbell, Curtis Hoffman, Fariba Bogzaran. Sorry, Stephen wasn't there.

Thank you very much!

Into the light...

Ralf