Hi, Tracy!

Welcome to the LI forum!

Seems that you already had some LD. Would you please tell us, how you came to lucid dreaming? I'm (we are) always interested, everyone is unique, and so is the way to LD. Are you a "spontaneous" LDer and / or did you work on it? If you did, what was successful for you? What do you like about Lding? Did lucid dreaming affect your waking life? Ooops! I said the words. With waking I mean in this case the state of being alive characterised by high levels of feedback with the local time / space we sometimes call consensus reality, I mean the state most people call being awake.

Dear Joe!

I'm glad to hear about your lucid nights. I'm just having a Foster's, which saw the note re the jewel's name. I'll visit uncle Morpheus soon and hope he gives me a sign... ZZZZZZzzzzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzzzz (one, I'm dreaming, two, I'm dreaming, three I'm beaming, four, I'm going, dive, I'm Joeing,....) Z Z Z Z

To Anyone/Everyone,

I am desperately trying to find a new or used DREAM SPEAKER. I understand they are no longer in production. Is there anyone out there who can help me? I will pay anything for one! I have been using the Nova Dreamer for about a month now and getting very frustrated with my lack of visual recognition

Thank you so much.

• Evan

Hello everyone It gives me joy to share this info! I have been a lucid dreamer since I was a child. I guess it was spontaneous, and I remember being deliberate about my actions at about the same time that I learned to tread water. To achieve "lift off", I would use the same muscle memory as well as the same degree of strength as that activity to float in the air or, especially, to start down these WILD slides. At around college age I began to explore many different spiritual avenues such as meditation, yoga, the Qabalah, Sufism, etc. During meditation and the White Light exercise (and some yoga postures), I have an incredible visual of a blue fireball that seems to begin at the back of my brain and then come into my field of vision, speeding off into the darkness, while another one is right behind it. Through practice, I was able to "will" this and other amazing visuals while I was lucid dreaming. However, I have a great deal of difficulty getting past these annoying (if not FUN and always interesting) primal desires during my lucid dreams. I do appreciate these adventures, but I always try to get past the "been there, done that" type of lucid dream. That has been an ongoing challenge. The next most common type of activity is floating or moving through walls, and occasionally running at an exhiliarating pace. I also am able to talk to raptors, usually hawks. I had one experience where I was flying with a hawk on an updraft, and he was explaining to me the reason why he goes for live prey as opposed to carrion. I also commonly have nonlucid dreams about animals that I seem to always remember. LDing definitely affects my waking life in the sense that I think about them all the time, and I am often occasionally confused as to whether or not I am dreaming. For instance I was staring into the mirror reflection of a mylar balloon, and had about five seconds of absolutely being unsure. Sort of eerie, but I believe it comes with the territory. I believe that lucid dreaming has made me a more emotionally intelligent and intuitive person. Or, at least I can say that I am more aware of my intuition. Because of my LD interactions with people, as well as the Non LD dream interactions with people and events that I have good memory of, I have most definitely been made more aware of insecurities that I may have otherwise been unaware of since they are likely subconscious. Being focused on lucid dreaming throughout the day and especially as prepare for sleep has enhanced the spontaneity of LDs. And, not sure if others have had this experience, but a glass of wine can sometimes work wonders on having LD's as SOON as I fall asleep. Anyone else had this experience? Looking forward to sharing more. Tracy

Tracy,

I don't get any consistent pattern with alcohol. Sometimes I sleep like a log and have many NLDs before getting up. Other times my sleep is restless with alcohol and it seems then I have LDs.

The only cast iron thing I can say about my LDs is that after having one I feel wide wide awake. At first (I have been LDing for 18 months now) I thought it was just the excitement of having an LD.

Now I think it is that the LD really wakes me up. Sometimes I feel dizzy with slight headache. I also get this effect with some near misses.

Owen

Dear Owen Although I do have regular headaches (about 2 per month), I have never gotten a headache or felt dizzy from any dreaming experience. Maybe you are not breathing regularly when you are asleep? Also, I don't regularly fully awaken after an LD. In fact, I do my best to stay totally relaxed and try to not even move any muscles if I feel that I have awakened in my bed. That often allows me to get back into LDing, usually back into a continuation of the same dream. This also happens with an NLD, especially if it is pleasant. As far as alcohol is concerned, my experience by experimenting is that my dreams are helped out by no more than one glass of wine. After that I get all foggy and have significantly less memory of any dreams, even after a full night's sleep (since I often dream early morning). Tracy

Hi, Tracy

I'm not sure, what you mean with "tread water", seems to be a phrase, that can't be easily translated. Maybe it alludes to "walking on the water" or to "learning to control the pee" or something completely different.

Re flying: Do you mean, that you used the same schemes of muscle action for jumping, flying, sliding in dreams, as you used in "waking" life? That is interesting. These days I don't seem to succeed in using these routines, they simply wake me up to physical awareness. I do succeed by using the memory, how it felt to fly in the last dreams. Maybe there is some change in nervous system comparing childhood and adolescence experiences. Maybe this one is due to change in believe systems, too. I'm not sure.

I don't know what a "mylar" balloon is. But I know these moments of uncertainty. They seem to emerge from the consensus sleep (and then awakening) of consciousness.

Frequent lucid dreamers seem to be mentally and emotionally more flexible. Working on LD and thinking about them makes LD more likely. That is a common experience. I'm not that sure, but animal dreams have increased since I'm lucid dreaming. They are special for me, too. I haven't experienced something like your "blue balls", but some lucid dreamers have recurrent visions.

A glass of wine ore beer... maybe sometimes it pays off, especially, when I worked too hard on dreams, when I did think too much. But in general alcohol hinders my concentration. I very rarely have LDs at the onset of sleep.

Thanks for sharing your experiences and thoughts

Looking forward for more postings

Ralf

PS. Greetings to Owen

Hi Ralf...I just wrote you a message in Word hoping to paste it into this box but it does not come across (I tested my state)

Has anyone else had problem with pasting copied text into these box. I'll have to try again tomorrow. I'm now observing myself getting annoyed by this.

Best wishes,

Owen

Ralf I did it....dragged it across....

I am still trying to focus on practicing MILD but have not succeeded in increasing the number of LDs. I do seem to be having more near misses though. I have a variety of problems with doing MILD that I am trying to iron out (and will describe here at some point) so I'm still optimistic that I will have success in future.

Do you know anything about the variant MILD techniques that differ from that described in ETWOLD?

Just recently I am experimenting with a combination of WILD and MILD. I repeat "one, I am dreaming" etc but try very hard each time to focus on the concept that I am recognizing I am dreaming and becoming lucid as I say it. On some of the repeats I will visualize dreamsigns or lucid tasks. My practice of the zhine technique is I believe helping me to maintain focus on the mantra.

I'm amazed though at how the mind wanders when doing zhine. It seems to me analogous to NLDs. When the mind wanders one is not aware that focus on the mantra, the aim of the meditation, has been lost. Examining retrospectively the wandering of my mind has also shaken a little my belief in free will as I see clearly how one thought simply triggers another. I understand of course that one of the objectives of meditation is to escape from this.

Last month for the first time ever I looked at my dream card in a dream, I thought I had some kind of mental block over this. The card was changed of course.

Best wishes,

Owen

Tracy,

I do not think too much about my breathing. Perhaps I am starving myself of oxygen. I spin in most of my LDs, perhaps this causes the dizziness. I find it very strange the idea of staying still and drifting into another LD, I feel so wide-awake.

Regards,

Owen

Dear Ralf- By treading water, I simply mean the act of hanging out in deep water without swimming: To hold yourself up in the deep end of a pool. I remember having to do this at my swim club every year for two minutes in order to get my "advanced swimmer ankle band" as a kid. That is the muscle memory schema I am talking about regarding getting "lift off" for floating. Of course,it is a bit different for flying, but it is still the same swimming muscles and movements. Unless, of course, I catch a good updraft : ) Sometimes the air is as hard to get through as water, especially whey I am trying to slow down or stop myself. You know what a mylar balloon is- the silver balloons you can get at the grocery store that they fill with helium right there. They give a funhouse mirror effect on the nonprinted side. By belief systems, do you mean belief in gravity? In other words, as a kid you have no clue what gravity is and therefore it does not exist (which is why I did REALLY stupid things with my bicycle before the age of 12.)Or, do you mean a spiritual belief system? Tracy

Folks- Hello. Throughout this forum I have come across several posts that discuss Spinning in LDs. Most recently, Owen spoke of this. I have never done this in a dream and in fact does not seem like such a pleasant feeling. I once experimented with spinning at a Dead show (awake, of course) and just fell down and looked like a big dope. Do you enjoy spinning? Do you get dizzy in your dream? Please review the other benefits of spinning, if anyone feels up to it. Thanks Tracy

Hi, Owen

I sometimes have problems with pasting, but only on the first try. If I repeat the procedure (tag, copy, paste) it always works.

The MILD technique: I often use similar variations. Recalling a (the latest) dream seems to be important, but I often don't get to step two and three, because I drift off. I still haven't convinced myself to interrupt my nights sleep for half an hour or so. But I get into the habit to awake after five hours of sleep, really don't know why. Maybe because of my intention to simply spread out consciousness into the night. Or because of the habit of wearing ND mask with wake - alarm in ca. two of seven nights. Then I focus on sharpening my thoughts for a while, do RC, while I still lie in bed with no lights on. After one or two minutes I recall the latest dream, confirm my intentions and plans, count and / or focus on the white dot and re - enter the dreamstate (mostly unconscious, as I must confess). Free will: Yes, that is an aspect. I'm over and over surprised, how easy I drift of into non - lucidity, although I resolved to stay aware. It needs a lot of training. I practise pot shaped breathing more frequently the last week. It helps in collecting awareness - energy.

Nice to get a message from you

Be the focus

Yours Ralf

Dear Tracy!

Thanks for explaining your words. I know this feeling of "hovering" in the water. It is a good comparison to the hovering in LDs. I know these mylar balloons, too. I didn't find the word in my dictionaries. Believe systems include both: The simple acknowledgement of gravity or the spiritual side. It is that we learn to believe, that it isn't possible for us to fly, what keeps us from trying it in day and dreams. I suspect these days, that the (my) lucid dream ego is subject to this kind of believe, maybe more, than my non - lucid dream ego. Seems that bad habits of daytime ego show up in the night, too, if you look at how I did evade fearful situations in my last LD. I wonder, whether this is a sign of advance or regression in establishing the lucid ego in the dreamstate. If I look at my first lucid dream - reports, I did accept the dream - situation much more. (Maybe because I was not experienced) Now I'm trying to change the run of the dream. As if the dream ego has to go through all the phases of development, just like the waking ego did. Like a kid testing the limits of control over environment, people, parents. Finding ways to ignore the world, the truth, etc. Sometimes I think, that with growing lucidity the dream ego successfully uses all means of waking ego. It may be important to observe and guide the actions of dream - ego, just as important, as it is having dream ego is a construction, too! Maybe I'm taking it too hard again. But these are my thoughts on how I behave in dreams and why it is so.

Spinning: Spinning is used as a technique to prolong dreams or to change the dream - scene. Look up the subject in: http://www.lucidity.com/LucidDreamingFAQ2.html#preventwake http://www.lucidity.com/NL7.34.RU.SpinFlowRub.html

If you type "spinning" using the keyword search in LI forum you find over 60 matching pages. I have used spinning successfully to keep lucid dreaming.

I wish you long and pleasant LDs

Yours Ralf

Dear Ralf I think that your acknowledgement of ego in your dreams as having an impact on your dreaming behavior most definitely is a sign of advancement. Give yourself some more credit for how far you have come in exploring your subconcious. I find this topic fascinating. As I mentioned earlier, I often struggle with (my perception of) the "id", since my first thought is to make out with anyone in the room with me!!!I wake up and think to myself: "Now, why couldnt I just get past that situation and move on to something that I have never explored before?" I do not know how to gain more control of my decisions in LDs. Sometimes I have it, sometimes I dont. What is it that determines the difference?? Tracy

Tracy,

I use spinning a lot. I throw out my arms and spin round. Immediately everything goes black - the black void.

The sensation I have is similar to a rhythmic thumping in my head.

I always have a dream body and usually clothes etc, and if I bend down I can touch the ground. It is exciting to explore in the black void. I find all sorts of things, walls, doors, windows, people ....

Usually I can sustain the rhythmic thumping sensation while I explore.

I have found that the following things help to get a dream scene back when spinning normally......

Lie down on the ground and roll over and over and shout or sing...

Rub the fingers of my left hand while rubbing my lips and mouth with my right hand

Suddenly reverse the direction of spinning. If a dream scene does appear it appears as I reverse and experience the 'shock' of changing direction

I assume these things distract the brain from awaking just as, as Stephen says, spinning does.

Owen

Dear Owen I have never heard of the "black void" that you speak of. Do you mean that it is the lack of physical visual focus since you are spinning? The light actually changes from what is in the environment, and you are able to clearly see other things? As though the spinning itself is a portal to something else? Do you use spinning only when you are losing the lucidity, or do you use it to enjoy those other aspects? I wonder what that "rhythmic thumping" is. Possibly your heartbeat? FASCINATING STUFF!! Sincerely, Tracy

Hey Tracy,

I was experimenting recently with drumming while dreaming at the suggestion of another forum person (adastra) and my intentionally-generated "rhythmic thumping" sometimes carried me into dreams, helped me retain them, and other interesting effects - I posted some of them somewhere in here. One time I gradually woke up and noticed that the slow drum rhythm corresponded with my physical heartbeat. Definitely fascinating stuff. Hope more people will experiment with the effects of rhythm in dreams.

I never thought about it much but I guess when I'm spinning it's usually dark around me. One time when I was spinning to try to regain a dream, the spinning took on a rhythmic thumping nature with a sudden stop at each 180 degrees - WHUMP! WHUMP! WHUMP! It was weird and disconcerting but I persisted and was rewarded with a totally unexpected dream orgasm... you just never know what you're going to run into out there in the black void....

Joy

Hi, Tracy.

Thanks for your supportive words. I speculate, what the reasons may be. Some people are very "free" in their actions. I'm rather free, too, once lucidity is stabilised. Only sometimes do I do things without wanting so. But my thoughts are often somewhat fuzzy, what leads to involuntary actions. It is a question of awareness at least. The subconscious plays a role, I think. Experience, technical abilities are important, too. There may be other reasons.

CU

Ralf

Hi, Joy. I don't recall the dream too well, but I was at the camp, and I'm pretty sure you were there, and also Naomi. In the second part of the dream, I was reading the forum. Apparently, someone (who doesn't exist) had applied to go on the retreat and was turned down. I was reading a posting which explained to the unfortunate person why they couldn't come. This dream reeks of my past personal issues, but I thought I'd share it anyway. Happy dreams, Kate

Hi, fellow dreambodies. I had a nld last night (really just a portion of the whole dream)that reminded me of a conversation from the Maui '01 site in October re being in different perspectives from the standard "I" in dreams. So I'm posting it. There was a man ' an older, thin man like Josef Sommers - that I was grooming for a public appearance. He was some kind of politician, but he was quite passive, like a child being dressed that doesn't know how to yet. I was apparently the aide, but also an observer, or maybe switching between the two. There was a part where the politician and I/the aide were standing a little apart from a group of people who weren't really looking at him at that moment. I saw that on his chest, under an underclothing thing, he had breasts that were bound, and that he was really a woman pretending to be a man. One breast had come unbound and was showing its shape, so that anyone looking would see unmistakably that he had breasts. As the aide, I rushed to put myself in front of him, blocking the view, and did something to fix the underclothing. At the same time I was also the observer, and so was totally surprised to find that he was really a woman with bound breasts.

I recall wondering what he would look like when out of disguise, and thinking that I didn't see how he could be all that attractive as a woman. I seemed to be thinking these thoughts as I stood in front of the door to nowhere in my parents" old dining room. As if at that point, I was totally myself and not mixed in with the persona of the aide. Any thoughts on related dream experiences? Lucidity to all, Kate

Hi, kate

If it was my dream, I'd wonder if it had something to do with feeling that I had to hide my femininity to fit into a certain role. But what I really want to know is, did your parent's dining room really have door to nowhere?!? If so, what did the view through that door look like?

Hi, Adastra. Thanks very much for the suggestion. It opened up a line of analysis that makes a lot of sense. I'm becoming much more assertive lately, and without knowing it consciously, I think I may have been brought up with a concept that to be so is to be unfeminine. The binding thing certainly fits, doesn't it? We are often so bound and manacled by the gender concepts society thrusts on us. As to the door, that is going to be a disappointment. Symbolically you might say that my parents had a door to nowhere. But in reality it was just a door the previous owners had put in the dining room wall, with the intention of building a garage off that wall. But no one ever built it, so there was a door with no steps going down to the ground that simply opened onto "nothing" in a way. This just always intrigued me. Particularly since otherwise, the house was a typical, unmysterious, 1950's ranch house. So the view was simply our yard, but I always found magic in the yard, in that there were a lot of trees and squirrels and birds and seasonal and weather changes. There were dogwood and laurel flowers and lacings of pastel buds in the spring, and red dogwood and blue viburnam berries and fire colors in the autumn, and much more. I could go on and on... I've been dreaming quite a lot lately of doors and windows, and sometimes of enemies I fear getting in, including last night. I'm sorry the door to nowhere was not what the phrase promised. Good to hear from you! Kate

Hi, Kate

The door to nowhere still works for me. It reminds me of a house I saw on a documentary one time that was owned by a woman who believed that it was haunted and kept having additions built on to it - I forget what the justification was, maybe that the ghosts would get lost and not be able to find her. But the end result was that it had a lot of rooms and stairs and hallways that went nowhere or doors that just had a wall on the other side and such. It sounded like a really crazy house, probably a good place to hold a dream camp or a seance - but not so great if you had to find the bathroom at three o'clock in the morning.

If I think of it maybe I'll try opening a "door to nowhere" in a dream and see where it leads me - pehaps to the Talking Heads' "Road to Nowhere." And maybe that'll lead me to the "Holy Moment" referred to in Waking Life...

Hey, Keelin, your hypnagogic dreamlet in the latest LDE was hilarious! I think you should share it here... :p

Hi, Adastra. I think you're thinking of the Winchester House, in San Jose Ca. www.winchestermysteryhouse.com. I've always wanted to go there. And I agree it would be a great place for a dream camp type thing. BTW, I got a CD of shamanic drumming. I always listen to it while I'm writing down my dreams, because Robert Moss wrote about drumming to put people back inside their dreams to see if they could recall more. Sometimes I lie down and listen to it, to see if it will take me anywhere. Also, I just started reading the Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep. If you ever plan something around the Winchester House I'd be interested... Happy dreams, Kate

Hi there. I got a question, I think it is an interesting one and ask it in all seriousness. Has there been any research done or any thought given to how some dreamers are more able to dream/recall/become lucid during their menstral cycle?

I have found this to be true of myself. Has any other females of this group found that? I am usually very tired, it might be that I am just able to sleep more deeply and am more relaxed when I do. But, I do wonder if this rare vividness that I experience will go away once I hit menopause. I'm closing in on that age, with relish I assure you.

It is such a hard thing to get into a good dream recall groove normally, then all of a sudden I get these vivid dream days...I'd hate to not have them ever again once I am post menopausal.

Does any of the people doing dream research at the Standford U test on animals?? I recently found an old tape showing a man talking about his dream research and there was a cat in a glass box with horrifiying electrodes and wires coming out of its head. All I got to say to that is I hope that man dies a horrible death. In fact, I think it was at Stanford...If it was, and if they do I want a refund of my $35.00 that I gave to join the LI because I WILL NOT support testing on animals of any kind, for any reason. Even if I never dream again.

Barbara :-))

Barbara,

That's an interesting subject.

Prehaps the lucid dreaming ability or pontential in any individual is, at least durin the learning process is related to the level/levels of hormone, (which type I don't know)in the body.

I make that connection because as we know the levels of are various hormones influence are mood and therefore influence are mental performance. I can't sight any research papers, however if you look at the personal reports and some of the small studies involving the hormone precusor DHEA some state that one effect of the drug is an improved memory and sharper mind.

Happy dreams Rob

Hi Adastra! and Dear Oneironauts, one and all,

Re the dreamlet in LDE: Funny, I thought I'd already done that -- but maybe I was dreaming? So here it is (again?). A bit of humor from the hypnagogic horizon:

Protesting Buddhist monks demonstrating/chanting: "What do we want??" "Now!!" "When do we want it??" "Now!!"

;-> Keelin

PS: Thanks to the generosity of Rick Linklater, we got to see "Waking Life" at the retreat. A rich, provocative and highly inspirational film indeed!

@ everydreamingbody

Please feel free to join our next experiment: Prolonging. For details see thread: Open Conversation: Dreaming and Awakening May '01 @ Maui.

Yours Ralf

Hi folks,

I'm not sure if there is a better topic to post this under, but I wanted to share the most amusing missed cue I've had to date. I was reading a newsgroup about pinball (I am a bit of a pinball fanatic in waking life), and there was a post from a guy who was listing his collection of machines. Amongst several real-life titles was a machine called "Lucid Dream".

I commented to myself what a cool name that was for a machine, but did not go lucid.

On an unrelated note, does anybody experience certain patterns in LD frequency. For instance, since I have been trying I have 5 LD's in five weeks, each once a week. The first three weeks, I had one on Sunday night, and the last two on Monday night.

I was wondering if it was just coincidence, or if maybe, my mind is almost "expecting" to have one on those nights at this point. Just thought it was a bit unusual.

Jeff

Hi, Jeff.

I haven't noticed a pattern in LD frequency, but I'm glad to be reminded of the concept that my mind may LD or not LD based on what I'm expecting. When I don't LD for a while, I start feeling like, "well, it's never going to happen." I need to learn to convince myself that I will LD this night, every night. Easier said than done. But I'm thinking that maybe it works like affirmations do. I envy your frequency. Funny dream! Is there a relationship in your mind between pinball machines and LD's? Kate

Hi Kate,

Hope you don't mind my jumping in here. Just wanted to say that with my own history of lucid dreaming, I've noticed they often come in clusters -- a bit like meteor showers. Occasionally there's the singular, usually spontaneous one, but then there may be several in a row. There's also an apparent correspondence with the level of activity in my waking life. When the day is demandingly full, the night tends to be more quiet; and conversely, a serene, inner reflective day may lead to a night of active awareness.

As for increasing your frequency, a positive attitude is absolutely essential, but so is practice! Each and every non-lucid dream can be a stepping stone if you learn to use it wisely. If you work on improving your prospective memory skills and master the MILD technique, you'll soon develop the skills you so desire.

Brilliant dreams to you! Keelin

Hey Rob

I knew a woman who experienced significant changes in characteristics of her dreaming, e.g. vividness and lucidity, based on where her mother (who lived in the same house) was in her menstrual cycle. When her mother started using depo-provera, which modulates the cycle over four months, my friend then noticed alterations in her dreams in a corresponding four-month cycle. Clearly the mother's cycle was influencing the daughter's hormonal cycles, as of course tends to happen when women live together. In any case, clearly hormones had an effect on dreams and specifically lucidity in my friend's case.

Since men have a hormonal cycle that is generally forty days long, perhaps some such effect could occur in men as well; however, I've not noticed this myself.

Keelin, I seem to recall that Patricia Garfield, in her book PATHWAY TO ECSTACY, related that she was more likely to become lucid on days that were particularly full, varied and taxing - the opposite to the pattern you mention in your post - which nicely demonstrates the wonderful personal variety in this game, as indeed in all aspects of human (and nonhuman) life.

I'll try to remember that when my daughter starts her menstrual cycle--and stay away from the DepoProvera. Hehehehehe. I'm with Keelan. When at Dream Camp recently, taking in all sorts of knowledge, meeting all sorts of folks, I was lucky if I had a remembered dream. Never mind a lucid dream. But I came back home, back to the old routine. Things got quiet--and I got lucid.

Hi, all. Keelin - thanks for your advice. I'll have to read the part about MILD techniques in the book again - maybe several times. I'm also reading The Tibetan Dream Yogas book, and Let your Body Interpret Your Dreams. I've been recalling dreams almost every morning since I started with that tea, but so far this has not changed anything LD-wise. But I'm keeping a dream journal. As to your suggestion, I do recall that the second to last LD I had came after a relaxing day of just doing what I felt like, and not feeling restricted time-wise. Thea - thanks for giving your example, which points out that the busy, full mental time can be a positive situation, but nevertheless too stimulating for LD's. Wishfully, Kate

Greeting, All:

In my continuing compulsive efforts to "get the word out', I find myself hitting a snag repeatedly'..

After breaking the ice (about LD'ing, that is) with newly found acquaintances, one question comes up frequently that always seems to make me re-evaluate my explanation given the audience"

In conversations with less open minded people (even if these people claim to have actually been lucid), the question of this nature often surfaces:

"Well, So What?' or "What possible good is it?'

The difference in experience is what is hard verbally bridge'.

Suggesting emotional healing is often to personal for people with obvious defenses mounted'.

Making practical use of the time (practicing skills, encounters) sometimes works'.

How do you all handle this?

I realize that my passion for LD's may often be confused with some type of lunacy, and have learned to contain myself, well, most of the time''

I can see an analogy to people who said years ago that the internet was of no use to them, and now are more wired than me"

Zzz("Oh Yes, LD's are real, and scientifically proven!') z z z Joe

Aloha, Joe, Thea here from Maui. When talking to people about lucid dreaming, I try to tailor the message to my audience, as I imagine you must do. For instance, when I talk to my young children, I talk about having the ability to fly and turn monsters into more fun things. When I talk to my very practical, almost pragmatic husband, I talk about the good of being able to rehearse behavior or change one's attitude, of learning new habits and unlearning old ones, during lucid dreams. When I talk to my friends who are creative in some way, I talk about the endless possibilities for story ideas or music in LD's. When I talk to my sensual friends, I talk about the joys of dream sex, and members of my church are told about the spiritual journey available in LD's. There is of course some overlap. But I of course don't talk to my kids about dream sex, nor of course the members of my church. I don't talk much about the more pleasurable or frivolous stuff with my husband. I do when relating my own personal dreams, but when someone asks, "So what? What good does it do?", I try to tailor my answer to their personality, belief system, and so on. And of course, I always point them to the website if they have a computer. Personally, I'd like to see more blind people checking out the world of dreams. I was the only blind participant of this year's Dream Camp on the Big Island. I'd like to see that change for next year. Well, enough of my rambling for now. I hope I've been some help to you. ALoha. THea.

Hi, Joe and Thea. What I've found is that some people I know LD spontaneously, but don't like to and try to wake up because they find it to be frightening. Go figure. I like to talk to individuals about LD'ing, but I find that I have this selfish wish to have it be special to me and some others, and not shared by the population as a whole. Probably an ego thing. But given what the practice of LD'ing can promote, I think it would be a fine thing for everyone to start doing, really. I've never had anyone say "how weird" or "what's the point?" But then, I'm very enthusiastic when I talk about it, so they can tell I love the experience. LD'ing sounds like a wonderful option for many blind people. Sweet dreams, Kate

Aloha, Kate. So far, I've only had lucid dream romance. Not even sex yet, hehehehe, but getting there. Since sensual pleasures are my favorite experiences in the dream world, I thought I'd start with those. But physical freedom without having to use a cane or wonder what's in front of me is something I'd like to try. However, I think I'll have to try to unlearn, at least in dreams, the mobility and safety conscious habits a life without sight has taught me. I have never seen, and can barely imagine what it would be like to run unfettered along a beach, or ski down an alpine slope without some form of guide or feeling of restraint. So when I do that in an LD, I bet it will be quite a joyful experience. Maybe I can combine the romantic LD characters I've created (the twins) with an experience of complete physical freedom, such as in skiing, running, or flying. Those who have had sight at one time can conjure visual images in LD's. But even someone born totally blind like myself can have plenty fun in a lucid dream. Hell, I've had plenty fun in NLD's as well. Aloha, and lotsa lucids.

Hi, Thea!

The visual impressions you get in dreams - are they based on what you imagine, using input from touch and other senses? Or is the visual situation the same as in waking life? Does running along a beach in a dream involve no visual, but the sound of the waves, and the feel of the wind and spray and the give of the sand, and the smell of the sea? I haven't gotten into the sensual part of LD's too much but I think that's because I have other priorities in them. Once I get adept, I'll have more chance to explore various facets of lucidity. Because I agree, there are endless experiential possibilites in LD's! Lotsa lucids to you too, Kate

Hi, Kate. No, there are no visuals in my dreams. None whatsoever. I have no visual memories upon which my subconscious can draw. It is as you suggest. An experience of running along the beach would involve only the salt sea air, the sunshine, the sand, etc. And of course all the pleasant emotions that would go along with it. I have yet to experience the exhilaration of running along a beach. I've concentrated on the very personal, sensual dream for the time being. Aloha. Thea

I have been working with Lucid Dreaming now for several years and continue to have several lucid dreams a week when I focus on it. I have noticed through my lucid dreaming the many similarities between waking life and dream life. It seems that the more I have focused on making my lucid dream experiences as sold and extended as possible. The more I have come to realize just how similar the two states can be. Without sounding to "out there" I have come to the realization that to me the two states seem to be "one in the same'. Lucid dreaming being the conscious "internal" world that is experienced by oneself, and the waking conscious experience which is experienced externally and being shared by everyone in the world who is in this waking dream as you read this. At first I was scared that I might be loosing a grip on reality and shied away from the idea for quite a long while. Just the thought that I would have to take responsibility for continuously creating my waking dream scared the hell out of me. I was not ready for the responsibility of something like that. Then something amazing occurred! I let go of my fear. When I did that, I came to the understanding that what I thought would dissolve away and leave me stranded on some Carlos Castaneda realm. Did not happen. What did happen is I received an understanding and confidence in knowing for me what it means to be truly free. I also learned that my waking world would not fall apart or dissolve away because everyone sharing this waking dream is helping to hold our reality together as we go along with our waking lives. Lucid dreaming has opened many doors for me in consciousness and enriching my life. With this in mind I ask to following question.

Have any lucid dreamers out there had similar experiences in lucid dream study? "Specifically the fear I once experienced of the dream consciousnesses and waking consciousnesses blending together?'

Any responses would be appreciated. Thank you.

Aloha, Don. I consider myself a baby in LD's, and truth to tell, in many things. But reading your post gave me "a star to steer her by" to go along with my LD ship. Realizing the oneness of experience between sleeping and waking life, that both are what you make it, would help me toward maturity. At the moment, though, I'm enjoying LD pablum. Dream sex, fun, entertainment, escapism. Still trying in some ways perhaps to escape my waking life with LD's rather than integrate. But a worthy goal, I think. Thea

Don -

Doesn't scare me; it totally attracts me. Castaneda's quest for "personal power" and immortality didn't much motivate me to cultivate lucid dreaming; but when I read about Tibetan dream yoga and they gave as a goal what you describe, with the ultimate purpose to "benefit all sentient beings," I dove in headfirst. My frequency of lucid dreams is similar to yours and having only begun a few months ago, I look forward to continuing in your direction. Already unexpected doors are opening. Thank you for encouragement from further along the way!

Joy

Hi, Don Thanks for the inspiring post. As a matter of fact, this weekend I had an experience somewhat like yours, in that while awake, it seemed to me that I had already dreamed things I was encountering. I connected this with something I recently read that said we actually have a natural faculty for dreaming of the future that we don't cultivate in this society. I also hoped it indicated a blending of the dreaming and waking worlds for me. Then, in my dreams, I was dreaming I was experiencing things in the waking world that I had dreamed, and that there was a blending going on. I think that mostly I'm just going to go through the day reminding myself that I'm dreaming, and doing RC's. I'm becoming very discouraged, actually, but maybe I shouldn't, in that I just started this work in October. But anyway, I would very much like to have that blending take place. It's possible that another part of me fears it - I don't know. Enjoy your lucdity, Kate

Don:

(My name's Peter ' I'm new to this forum, but not to LD'ing, so please bear with me).

Don't worry; you're not alone. Intensive lucid dreaming back in the early "80's gave me about a year of, well, basic confusion about where exactly my consciousness truly resides. I did have some very fearful days, days where I could not convince myself that reality was a dream, or a dream was not reality. It was a real (drug-free!) trip, but the rush of true freedom that you described so well quickly quelled, or at least qualified, the fear. Not the confusion, however ' I still bump into that, decades later. In any case, I logged the fear as a necessary step, and confusion as a necessary hurdle, toward the higher states of consciousness that LD'ing may offer.

I also reached your conclusion ("lucid dreaming being the conscious "internal" world that is experienced by oneself, and the waking conscious experience which is experienced externally and being shared by everyone in the world who is in this waking dream as you read this.), and hold it as a basic tenet of my understanding of LD'ing. Plus, I braved asking more questions, like, "Is the conscious experience in my dreams also shared by everyone in the world who is dreaming?' That may sound a little too new-age bizarre in type, but if you bring that thought into your dreams, you might find yourself "Fleshing out" the characters you experience/create, and gaining all the more depth in your understanding of your dreams, your reality, and the two as one.

I hope this made sense. If not, read it again ' maybe it changed!

Peter

Aloha, Oneironauts, One and All!

Exciting news to share:

We are planning a return to the Big Island of Hawaii for the next "Dreaming and Awakening Retreat", Friday July 19 through Sunday, July 28, 2002!

Details, on-line registration and scholarship applications are available at: http://www.lucidity.com/DAAK02/index.html

We look forward to meeting and dreaming with those of you who can join us in creating yet another unique, inspiring and memorable retreat. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact us (you'll find a direct contact link on the web site). And if you're wondering what it might be like to be a participant, you'll find a variety of testimonials from our alumni also on the web site.

Sometimes waking life unfolds just like a dream! Keelin

All I can say is that I just love this Forum! Am I dreaming?

I can say that I've not read this page on the forum. Am I dreaming?

sketchess guidance

Michel

Michele:

Maybe you are.

You must remember, there is no page...

Michel:

I just noticed that I've been spelling your name wrong.

Sorry about that, and I hope my inadvertant genderbending doesn't have any long term effects.

Peter