Aloha, Oneironauts!

Exciting news to announce: The next Dreaming & Awakening Retreat in Hawaii will be held on the Big Island, February 26 - March 7, 2002. Details, registration, scholarship applications (and great images for lucid dream incubation!) are available on the LI website at:

http://www.lucidity.com/DAAK02/index.html

If you're not sure what it's like to attend a DreamCamp, click on the "Testimonials" link to read the reviews of a couple of past participants.

Hope to see you there! (my bags are already packed) ;-> Keelin

Hi, Keelin

I envy you and everybody, who will join this camp. The pictures look wonderful. It is surely worthy to join this camp.

All the best for all DreamCampers

Did anyone else do a reality check after noticing this message at the bottom of the splash page for the retreat?

Page last modified: Sunday, December 8, 1901

There's a small chance I'll be able to manage it this year, but does anyone know if there will be another one later in 2002 (as there was last year)?

Tenzin Rinpoche's book has been quite useful to me in relation to practice of the intention technique during the day. Tenzin is crafty, as he formulates his ideas in a way that are palatable to western lucid dreaming thinkers.

Now I'm reading a book by the Dalai Lama. He suggests that it might be better if there were fewer Tibetan monks - that a lesser number of more devout ones might be better! I've already been interested in the idea of reincarnation but I can't take some of the Buddhist baggage, well not yet.

I'm doing the forced Zhine technique now, focusing on the Tibetan symbol for A as recommended in Tenzin's book. It is interesting how the mind wanders. During the wandering the mind forgets about awareness of the A just like, so it seems to me, that the mind loses awareness of the dream state during an NLD.

Owen

Hi, dreamers

Jay

I did notice and did my check... it is always funny finding such oddities on a site related to LDs. Maybe a case of extreme precognition?

Owen

Nice to know, that you are still into the lucid affairs. I've just begun to read the book on Tibetan dream Yoga. Yes, it reminded me of how important the daytime practise is. I have somewhat neglected it these weeks. I'm back to writing down dream at least.

Hey. Ralf...

Sorry to have been away for a while..

No www access....

I am getting my new internet connection this week and look forward to furthering our discussions.

zzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ( What is the mineral?) z z z z Joe

Dear Ralf! Camp won't be the same without you... (The butterflies still call your name ;->)

And Jay! What a fun reunion it will be if you can join us again. Your dreams are bound to inspire us all.

Sweet dreams to all in the meantime, Keelin

Hey, hey, Joe, where ya going with that mineral in your hand?

Good to see your zzzzzzzzzz again. Just browse my website (see profile)

Or use this link http://ralf.penderak.bei.t-online.de/index.htm

and you will find the kitchen shots. Then dream (lucid!), look into the fridge, right below some bottles of Foster's lies the sheet with the word... (I forgot it).

Best wishes for you

Keelin

You are right. The butterflies are calling. But I have some work to do here. Seemsm that my opening my practise is getting closer. I'll have to force myself to spent some time on other subjects (are there really different ones?) than lucid dreaming.

I'll certainly dream of this camp...

Regretting limitations of space, time, matter and so on

Yours Ralf

Hi Jay,

As for DreamCamps later in the year, we've no plans that far in advance -- but we can tell you about workshops in the past! (Nice catch on the 1901 update date! ;->)

In the moment, Keelin

Hi, fellow dreamers. Thanks a lot for your prompt and fascinating responses. Dear Joy ' Maybe you should have accepted the chicken. If you'd awoken in your bedroom in reality with a chicken clucking and running around, you would have advanced the cause of lucid dreaming quite a lot. Joke, but you never know. So much depends on what we're really willing to accept as possible. Everyone on the forum seems to be from a Western culture. Why is that? A fun and interesting dream. I thought about what it is about you that might be the reason you have so many colorful lucids - within the limited area that I have a sense of you. (I hope this isn't too intrusive.) Anyway, you seem to be okay with yourself, and to have just a big interest in things in general. Your postings just kind of radiate health, creativity, and okayness. So that's something for me to think about. I also consider the fact that I haven't been doing any artwork recently because of being busy and tired. Now I'm wondering if there's a connection between that and my 3-week lag in having any ld's. There was some discussion about people on the forum being strong in left and/or right brain acitivites. I'm going to get back to my artwork, but if I end up having an ld, other causes might be involved. Since I'm not a scientist, I don't have to worry about control goups and various variables. But now that my good-at-heart husband and beloved son and his amusing friend have left for a ski trip, I feel like I have no commitments, even though I have to work Monday. I pulled out my paintings and feel the lure of colors and design and interpretation. And ego. I get to see things about myself, and I'm pleased when I like the work. I read recently that "humility" is seeing ourselves in proper relation to "God" and others. Your amusement during the informal meeting among the dark-haired guys interests me. Because they were speaking an incomprehensible language. This reminds me of when, in my last ld, I was pleasurably amused at text dancing impossibly around. There was such a freedom and hilarity and letting go about it all. The idea of things being out of my control, but that's okay. Can you identify with that? Dear Ralf ' thanks for you interesting posting and honesty regarding your relationship with your father. Obviously, only you could interpret what your dreams mean, but it's nice of you to share the possibilities and your thoughts. If there's one thing that's universal to all cultures, it must be the reality of (sometimes) problematic family relationships.

There seems to be a lot on the forum about trees. "The trees are calling me near, I've got to find out why. Those gentle voices I hear explain it all with a sigh.' (Moody Blues.) As a scientist, you can appreciate the similarity in how we operate and how plants operate. Personally, I was amazed when I looked at my son's biology book. I'd expound on that but my science memory stinks. You can fill in the blanks if interested. I appreciate that you thought about me, and actually tried to come up with an ld in part for my sake. It makes me feel good. And I appreciate your "feeling of being deeply linked to our community of lucid dreamers.' I feel the same way. Without being particularly knowledgable about psychology, I still have the feeling that psychoanalysts who say that lucid dreamers who fly are "trying to avoid things" may be being presumptuous. I think people, from childhood, love the idea of flying. To me it would represent a desire to ascend to higher things, an "overview',as you suggested, and simply a freedom. Certainly there's a connection between sex and "letting go.' It's one area where the phsysical and emotional, even if just briefly, supercedes the analytical, and we just "are.' We revel in our human, physical, state , and our awareness of it. It doesn't last forever, and we know it. Why did you write "spinning" and "prolonging" in English? Is there no German equivalent?

Linus ' I knew I could depend on you. When you talked about the computer exploding (which strikes me as really humorous) and your mind saying "maybe it's the power grid" were you talking about how our dreaming minds explain away everything as "logically possible', and keep us from becoming lucid? That's certainly a frustrating thing. I even have that in waking life ' I'm too willing to accept odd things as possible. A right brain handicap, maybe. For me logic is purely a survival tool ' and therefore strongly enforced in my thinking mind. Otherwise it has no particular value. I think the "curing" thing is well worth pursuing. If it worked, what a breakthough. As always, imaginative and pro-active dreams on your part. Longing to share an ld of my own, and wishing everyone happy holidays and happiness in general, Kate

Hi, Kate!

Well, I got a chance to accept the chicken that very afternoon: a neighbor girl called and told me she had to get rid of her chickens and asked if I would take some. I accepted two hens and a rooster. If I awaken this morning and find them running around my room and clucking, I won't know what to think!

And this afternoon my sister read a story to her children about an old man and woman from eastern Europe who brought Christmas trees and chickens to all their neighbors. I made the connection with my dream after she told me that her favorite book by the same author is about her overcoming dyslexia - that's when I remembered the letters changing places when I was trying to read!

My other sister & her family just arrived - I gotta go - more another day. Joyous holidays to all!

Hi everybody

Some of you may be amused by the following quote from the excellant SF novel BETTER ANGELS by Howard V. Hendrix...

Quote:

After that, time blurred and smeared for them both. Mike remembered the KL group (most of them bent quite a bit beyond trapezoid by the chemical) eruditely arguing the nature of Santa Claus. For what seemed like hours.

Was the jolly man in red and white -

A. A single magical master elf and judge/accountant/keeper of lists who in a single night sequentially visited all homes in Christendom to dole out gifts on the basis of the potential recipients' having "passed" or "failed" according to the simplistic criteria of certain ethical tests?

B. Millions of parents acting in parallel, who independently bought gifts, hid gifts, dispensed gifts under trees, all on the basis of household income, gift affordability, and sense of familial obligation while falsely attributing all this covert multiple parallel activity to an open singular sequential fiction with eight tiny reindeer?

C. A singular Catholic saint noted for his gift-giving?

D. The time-eroded remnant of circumpolar shamanic ritual practice, in which myriad shamans, over thousands of years, claimed to climb from this world via a tree, then to "fly" between the worlds through the ingestion of hallucinogens present in circumpolar strains of the red and white (Santa's colors) mushroom Amanita muscaria, helped along the way by tryptamine "elves" - said mushroom often being located as a result of the shaman's noting the "flying" (i.e. Amanita-affected) behavior of reindeer that had consumed the mushroom, the deer then often being killed and the urine in their bladders drunk off because it concentrated the hallucinogenic properties from the mushrooms the deer had eaten, so that the shaman might experience a swifter and stronger "flight"?

From shamanic healers to toys under the trees - what a long, strange trip, Mike remembered thinking. He didn't know if he fully believed any of the explanations, or even a combination of all of them.

Anyone who likes really intelligent, metaphysically-inclined science fiction would probably love Hendrix. I fully endorse Kim Stanley Robinson's comment, "Howard Hendrix is one of the very best of the new science fiction writers. Conversant in all the latest in cosmology and subatomic complexity, he has the rare ability to track those concepts to their intersections with the human heart, in novels that stand as works of high adventure." All his novels so far take place in the same wonderful multiverse; his first novel is called LIGHTPATHS, however they don't need to be read in sequence.

Adastra, thanks for the delightful quote! Kate, thanks for your impression of me which has done me great good these past couple days: with 11 people in my little house I've been reminding myself as often as necessary, "I'm a person who radiates okayness!"

The T key is wearing out on my keyboard; I have o hi i really hard or everyhing I ype comes ou somehing like his, so I hink I won' be wriing much unil I ge a new one. Merry Chrismas o all and o all a dream-filled nigh !

Joy to the world

Hi, everyone. Happy post-solstice. Adastra, the quote you shared all made perfect sense to me. I'm not sure if it was supposed to. What the reviewer wrote is very promising. "Tracking the concepts of cosmology and subatomic complexity to their intersections with the human heart" reminds me of Madeline L'engle, and in a way, what we get into on the forum sometimes. I'm not a sci-fi reader (murder musteries, actually) but I think I'll check him out. I've now loaded myself with several books on my agenda, but that's fine. I started the Robert Moss book, and I really like him. VERY easy to read. It just flows interestingly along. Joy - thanks for the laugh! I love to laugh. Lucidity in all things to all, Kate

Joy, Kate

Glad you liked the Hendrix quote.

Dreaming as a spiritual path, gateway to deeper/other dimensions of being is something that comes up in Hendrix's novels from time to time, incidentally. In one novel, the "four D's" were mentioned as ways to achieved higher states of consciousness: dreaming, drumming, dancing and drugging.

Hi, fellow dreamers!

Kate:

Pleased, that you liked me sharing this dream. BTW we had a very warm Christmas. My father and his wife visited us on 25th and we spent some really good hours with sharing gifts and talking and eating together. It was a very special and close situation, we haven't had since years during Christmas. This may show, that it is rewarding to care for the shadow and enjoy life deeply in anyway. "Why did you write "spinning" and "prolonging" in English? Is there no German equivalent?" There are equivalents. But these are termini technici for me. And somewhat I get to a fusion of English and German with the years spent in the forum. I sometimes don't find the right words regarding LD, when I speak in German about them...

Thanks for the quote, Adastra!

Have a wonderful New Years Celebration

Yours Ralf

Hi, everyone! I have a new keyboard now and needn'T Try To limiT uTilizaTion of The leTTer T.

Hey adastra, I haven't read any science fiction in years; might try Hendrix on your recommendation. I'm an avid practitioner of the first 3 D's and interested in seeing how far I can get without the 4th! Also - I think it was you who once enquired about the realism of a dream shower; it must have been for you that I dreamed the following on Christmas Eve:

I was going in the house of people I didn't know; I began to worry that I'd be seen and when I saw a bathroom at the top of the stairs, I thought I ought to duck in and take a shower. Then the nonsensicalness of this struck me and I realized I was dreaming. Oh, well ' might as well take a shower anyway! In waking life I hadn't had a chance to wash my hair in a couple of days, and I was looking forward to it. So I did. It felt quite luxurious: plenty of good warm water, and the feeling was very realistic of warm wet soapy water streaming down my hair.

Then the man and woman of the house and their adolescent daughter came upon me. There was a little initial nervousness but they weren't at all shocked: they thought they recognized me as the actress in an ad for a feminine hygiene product (I guess TV makes people used to the idea of strangers taking showers in their homes)....

Kate, you and my sister both suggested I should have accepted the chicken in my last-posted dream, so the rest is for you, and anyone else in this season of giving and receiving:

I left their house and found myself in an unexpected, unrelated and unfamiliar scene, walking among many people of many nationalities. I reminded myself that I was dreaming and walked for quite a while just people-watching....

I thought I ought to do something with my lucidity besides just observe. I wanted to interact with people; but whom? Just then one woman stood out in the approaching crowd: she was very small, about half my height, and made of a silvery engraved metal that was tarnished to a nice dark patina. At the same moment I remembered advice my sister had given me when I told her my last lucid dream: "Next time someone offers you something in a dream, accept it and ask them what to do with it.'

The metal woman said, "Oh, there you are, Doy-Doy!' ' using the name my brother called me as a baby, which has remained a term of endearment for me within my close family. "I have this for you.' She walked right up to me and stopped beside me smiling but without looking straight at my face ' as a blind person might do. Concerned that she might give it to someone else, I quickly took what she was holding: a doll-sized version of herself.

"Thank you, ' I said. "What should I do with it?'

Another woman, a bystander, said, "Take it back to your room and be good to it as if for yourself.' The metal woman smiled and nodded briskly, looking satisfied with that answer, and started to continue on her way.

"Wait!' I said. "What kind of things should I do?'

The metal woman looked troubled and said something in awkward English like, "Word are hard for me to use'.'

Again the woman bystander spoke for her: "For instance, you could rub a little buttermilk diagonally across its chest.' The metal woman smiled and nodded again. I was satisfied with this answer too; it seemed like it must be some sort of traditional ritual....

Drumming, dancing and dreaming,

Joy

Joy

Thanks for dream reports.

I've just watched "Highlander" with Christopher Lambert. It's not easy to say, whether movies improve or depress our critical thinking. Must depend on your attitude while watching, as always. Often, when I see ads, I can't keep from commenting about how the advertisement industry abuses our dreams and wishes by offering substitutes for real and basic experiences in a dreamlike way.

Hi, Joy and everydreambody

Cool dream, Joy - glad to hear the shower was realistic and enjoyable! It was indeed I who asked about the realism of your dream showers.

I think there is something to be said for all four of the D's in various circumstances; I did some experimental drugging while in university - mostly psychedelics. These days I'm much more interested in dreaming as a vehicle for altered states.

However, there is some overlap. For example, I'm very interested in an experiments I've heard about, involving taking small doses of psychedelics before sleep to enhance REM activity; I long ago read an article about people who were given small doses of LSD through an IV after they fell asleep (an amount too small to produce much effect while awake) - if I recall correctly, there was up to a 500% increase in REM time, with more vivid and bizarre imagery.

And then there's the theory that the pineal gland may release small amounts of DMT - a powerful psychedelic produced in the human body - during REM sleep...and larger amounts during ecstactic experiences produced by, for example, prolonged drumming or dancing...

BTW, Joy, are you familiar with the Robert Moss technique of using drumming to re-enter a dream? Have you ever tried that? And, do you get into ecstatic states from drumming and dancing? And even more of interest to me - if you've been doing one of those activities, does it effect your dreams after? Oh, and hey - ever tried drumming or dancing in a lucid dream?

Kate, I loved Madeline l'Engle when I was a child.

-Aldara Godbody, O.B.E.*

*the soon-to-be-Ancient (dis)Order of the Bawdy Ecstatic

Hi, fellow dreamers. It was great having so many postings to read. Ralf ' could you explain what you meant by: "it is rewarding to care for the shadow?' Also, could you explain: "I hope, this is the onset of a basic change into meta ' cognition.' Poor Ralf! You don't have to if you don't have time. I'm glad to hear that you and your dad and other loved ones had a really good Christmas. What you said about "the effect of opening my mind and (simply ;->) expecting to dream lucid" is a very good point. And in fact, I'd been thinking about how this may be a key reason I'm having such a problem. Because of the way I think, I really don't expect to get lucid now, even though I'm doing many things to promote it. And also because of the way I think, I can't shake this belief. The only thing I have going for me is the fact that I have lucid dreamt on a semi-regular basis, so I know it's possible in me; and my innate doggedness. And whatever it is in me that allows me to lucid dream at all, and welcomes it.

"I am SO controlled! A coping mechanism I can afford to let go of now.' I wrote that, and I think it may be another key to my problem. My control has worked well when lucid dreaming, so that's a good thing. But I think it's in the way of getting lucid.

Joy ' "focusing on a mental image, letting the image become very soft and gently glowing, and then allowing yourself to become that image.' This is the kind of thing I can't do. But maybe I'm on the edge of changing. I'm not good at science and math, but it's starting to seem as if I'm as left-brained as they come. Look at the analytical way I'm doing this post. Aldara Godbody, O.B.E., feminine alter ego ad hoc - I have to tell you that I realized aldara is a pharmaceutical cream. For warts. I work in dermatology and had heard the name, and got mixed up. I hope you don't mind. Anyway, "There are ways to achieve higher states of consciousness: dreaming, drumming, dancing and drugging.' I too would leave out the drugging part, although what you said about the hallucinogenic chemical the brain itself puts out during REM and trances is very interesting. So in a way we're "drugging" whether we choose to or not. In addition, different things can be mind-altering, including caffeine. But I'm wanting to get away from that, and am getting into more herbs. I love to dream, but never was a dancer. This says something also, but I have a friend who can help me with dancing/yoga.

"Ecstactic experiences produced by, for example, prolonged drumming or dancing...' Sounds wonderful ' but it's hard to picture it happening in me. But I know it's all in where you come from mentally, and what you are capable of believing. I read "People of the Lie" by M Scott Peck, and even though he's a scientist and a person who is well in touch with our collective concept of "reality,' I found I couldn't believe the part about an exorcism. I don't think he's lying, or psychotic ' I just can't assimilate it as real. That's an example of how trapped I am in what I can believe. I'm so Western it isn't funny. I'm sure my problem in "letting go" or whatever it is, all comes down to fear'and as a matter of fact, in my interpretation of what Peck is saying in "People of the Lie,' fear is at the root of "evil" behavior in people. Not that I'm saying I'm evil! I'm just noting a cross-indexing.

Joy -*I don't have a lot of experience with WILD but when I've done it, there has definitely been a moment of trusting and letting go.' Could you elucidate? I like the sound of it" Joy and Ralf ' excellent advice: "It's fun. It's all fun. I think it's likely that delighting in whatever one gets, feeling happy about a vivid or interesting or well-recalled dream whether it's lucid or not, ultimately promotes lucidity. "It is rewarding to'enjoy life deeply in anyway.' That's something I can get my mind around, and work at, and actually do. It's a beautiful day in San Diego, and I've been greatful for and enjoyed the soft air and dream-like atmosphere. I've also enjoyed my cats ' they just strike me as endlessly amusing, and very loving. I watched surfers, who hung at intervals (I guess where the good waves were expected) along the coast, and then sometimes caught a wave and rode it. And joggers and dog walkers, and gorgeous scenery. But I got restless. I've got a lot of (mental) work to do" Joy- What an excellent dream! You should post it on the post your ld's site, for people who don't check out this site. I think it would be inspiring. I think you said in the past that you don't mind if I analyze your dreams? Mary did, but I can't recall for sure about you. However, it's hard to picture you minding. So, it just strikes me as a tremendously healthy dream (as well as cool) and if you look at it from the Gestalt angle, you were being very kind to yourself, and telling yourself to be good to yourself, and even making sure you understood the concept by providing an interpreter. And possibly drawing to your attention the anthropological importance of rituals? I'm very impressed! And I think it would make an excellent art project. The metal woman would be so cool to render. Aldara Godbody, OBE ' Peasearch? Was that a Freudian slip? Or is there an agricultural connection to ld's I'm missing? Is there a legume/psychotropic essence we should know about? Are there drumming tapes designed for trance stuff that can be ordered? If so, please post about it. (I'm really not that interested in peas.) Regards to all Kate

Joy - I've had dreams where I was in someone's house and didn't belong there too. I never like that feeling. But this morning I had a couple of dreams with Bea Arthur and Harrison Ford. I don't recall the stories totally, but in the Bea Arthur one, she was basically the Dorothy character from Golden Girls, but very serious cause the situation was serious. We were trying to direct a train that was barely moving, in a place where there was hardly any room for it. On the side I was on, there was a wall. Then I saw there wasn't going to be any room at all if the train didn't angle more to the right, because the shoulder of the road alongside the wall was running out. I was about to do something to redirect the train, when I saw there was freeway on the train's other side, and all the drivers on the freeway went over to the right lanes and gave the train room. Then it took off, and I was ahead of it at a crossing, and I was afraid it would hit me. I called for help, but no one was helping me. Then I saw a little boy and girl who were not being watched, so I took them by the hand so they wouldn't get hit. They seemed clueless about the danger. In the other dream, I was in a story that I knew was a story, with Harrison Ford. I don't recall most of it, but we were on this weird metal structure way up in the air that was more like a sculpture than a scaffold or grid, or whatever. I was leaning back on a flat, rectangular piece of metal that was kind of like an amusement park ride seat. We were outside this brick building with a window, and Harrison Ford was stuck hanging onto this one broken piece of metal, about to go in the window. I remember thinking "oh yes, this is the part where he goes through that dangerous thriller scene by himself.' And I wasn't afraid, because we had been through the same story before already, so I knew it came out all right. Big missed cue. But I had that same metal structure way up in the air in a different dream a week or so ago, with a couple of women dream characters. I wonder what it means? I seem to dream frequently about traintracks and children. Sweet dreams, Kate

Dear Kate

It is rewarding to care for my shadow. That means, e.g. during Christmas I well remembered this dream re the relation to my dad and the thoughts and the history linked to the dream. It is speculation, as always. But I think it is due to caring for this dream (and my shadow - aspects, the shadows, that lie in our relation) that I could even more deeply enjoy our meeting. The more I include, the richer is my life. Very simple psycho - arithmetic. ;-)

Meta - cognition: Is being aware of the process of cognition, i.e. being lucid, i.e. "monitoring" my state of mind (in a dream / in physical reality). A basic change into metacognition means to get into the habit of performing this "monitoring". I hope, that all this state checking etc. finally pays off and it seems, as if I by time develop the habit to simply be aware of my state. That is a basic change. Isn't it?

Through the dark into the light!

Yours Ralf

Hi, Ralf

Yeah, metacognition rules! Similar to the concept of "metacommunication" in process work - being able to clearly communicate about what is happening to you in any altered state you're in; I speculate that practice with metacommunication over years may lead to increase in incidence of lucid dreaming for obvious reasons. I posted a question about that on a process string and got a few responses saying process work had indeed led to increases in lucid dreaming.

Kate

A pharmaceutical wart cream?!? Sheesh. Well, at least it's not a hemorroid cream...hmm...this could explain why my psychic warts have been shrinking since I let Aldara into my mindspace...

Peasearch...hmmm...don't know where my unconscious was going with that one - perhaps some sort of "princess and the cosmic pea" metaphor. Let's all sleep on it and see if we can feel that kernal of reality under all these layers of illusion...

Never heard of a psychotropic legume, though there is a superpsychedelic mint called "Salvia Divinorum" which amazingly is thus far still legal.

Good luck loosening the boundaries of your western conception of reality. The first big crack in my own cosmic egg occured on the occasion of my first acid trip many years ago. However, I would certainly not recommend experimentation with black market synthetic chemicals. Anyway, you've got a great technique I didn't have at the time, namely lucid dreaming.

Ralf - I definitely like the idea of keeping the dream and what it had to tell you in mind in your interaction with your father. And how well it paid off. As far as monitoring our states of mind, I'm not sure what to think. You said somewhere that the self-monitoring is a good thing, in terms of not just auto-reacting in the same old way. I like that. But I'm trying to get away from being so self-conscious, and trying to get outside myself in that sense, into a broader mindset. But that's just me. Adastra - Thanks for your amusing response. I was actually afraid you might mind about the aldara thing. But of course you're right about the hemorroid thing. Everything is relative. I connect Salvia with some kind of popular garden flower. But maybe there was more kick in mint julips than most people realized. I was serious about the drumming tapes. Do you know of any? I hope my egg cracks soon...it may be a matter of comfortably juggling mindsets. If so, that would make the transition easier for me. I could let go and still be in control? I won't consider myself as having the technique of ld'ing until I can do it more regularly. But I appreciate your point. Success in lucidity, Kate

Dear lucid friends!

After 3 days without internet service (a drawback of desert dwelling) my line has been restored and I've just been spending the last few minutes of 2001 (A Dream Odyssey) catching up with you all. Now I need to sleep (perchance to dream) but tomorrow I'll reply to all queries.

Meanwhile - adastra, Wart Creme to the Stars - I just gotta tell you that I would have had to answer "no" to all your questions, but after reading them I was blessed with two nights of prolific lucidity and had several opportunities to try drumming and dancing while dreaming. I'll post results tomorrow. I thank you for the inspiration!

Happy New Year, everyone. 2002 is a reversible year such as we haven't had since 1991 and won't have again until 2112; but 1961 you could flip upside-down. Life's simple pleasures. Love and lucidity to all,

Joy

Kate: By trusting and letting go I guess I mean something pretty simple: can't fall asleep without going ahead and falling. If I try to constantly maintain focus and intent I just stay awake. I have to sort of set it up and then let go and see what happens. You know: like raising kids.

I don't mind at all if you take a shot at interpreting my dreams - you may see things I miss from my too-close perspective. I like your idea that I was already following the metal woman's advice just by dreaming that.

adastra: I read your questions very quickly just before losing my internet connection but I must have internalized them. I'm not familiar with the Moss technique of drumming to re-enter dream and forgot you mentioned it but then "discovered" something like that in my subsequent dreams! Can you describe what Moss says?

Though aware of precedents from other cultures and fascinated by the possibility, I haven't entered altered states of consciousness while drumming or dancing. Beginner - too busy concentrating on getting it right.

Not enough data to say whether drumming and dancing affect my dreams afterwards. I took up dreaming shortly after I took up drumming; could be a connection - in fact it was my drum teacher who told me that people seek LDs intentionally as part of spiritual practice. Intriguing: I dreamed drumming the night after reading your query; the next day I practiced drumming for a good hour and then spent 2 hours choreographing and practicing a dance; that night I was lucid all night.

I never tried drumming or dancing in a dream before you suggested it. Here's my report from subsequent LDs including a new one from this morning. It's pretty long even though I edited out the possibly less relevant parts. [LD] in brackets represents whole lucid dreams I've deleted and ....'s represent long, rich fragments. I tell you this because there seems a good chance that drumming-in-dreaming enhanced the experience overall, besides producing more immediate intriguing and unexpected results. Anyone who plows through this or skips to the end will find me asking you-all for a bit of guidance. Thanks!

28/29 December

0700 Just as I was waking [after LD] I remembered that adastra had expressed an interest in whether I'd achieved altered states by drumming or dancing or if I'd drummed or danced in dreams, and I'd had the intent to try drumming. So after going through recall, without moving I drifted in and out of WILD.

There were three drumming dreams. In the first, someone helped me tie my djembe around my waist. I found that my hands moved surprisingly slowly so that each drumbeat stood out individually. I let my drum class teacher take over because he's extremely steady rhythmically and I wanted to see what happened when he was drumming; but I soon woke.

In the second, again I was in slow motion and the drum beats were slow, deep and resonant. I noticed that I was doing the first drum rhythm I'd learned, a very simple base-tone-tone pattern with alternating hands. I was impressed by the fact that with each beat I could hear the sound, feel the drum skin with my hands and feel the vibration through my feet and throughout my body and all around me. Observing my mental state, the sensations inside my head, I found it dark and gray and foggy and absorbed in the vibration; and then there was a sense of slowly levitating.

In the third I found myself doing a more complex pattern, an exercise with a complicated switching of slaps and open tones which I was executing relatively rapidly. But I lost track of the rhythm for a moment and in pausing to regain it, and insisting on getting it right, I woke.

After that there was a hypnagogic event in which I was aware of my physical body while my mind was dreaming drumming, and each drum beat was resulting in a very enjoyable pulsation of sexual energy. I kept this up for a while as I gradually rose toward full waking awareness and it got increasingly intense, near-orgasmic. Nice!

29/30 December

0100 [LD]

0200 After writing the above I went to the bathroom, returned to bed happy with my little lucid episode and very optimistic about further lucidity. I felt a little shaky, as if with the chills of a fever, but not unwell. Soon after lying down I was overtaken by a strong shaking feeling that encompassed all my body but originated in my head. There was an almost out-of-control feeling to it, but I sensed it was lucidity-related and encouraged it to continue'.

[Watching a scene as if it were a movie and then remembering that I was dreaming] I started to wake up, and found that I was sitting at a table and so couldn't very well try spinning, so I tried hand-rubbing. It felt so realistic that for a moment I was convinced that I was rubbing my physical hands together in bed, and so it wasn't really working! I continued anyway, and also tried drumming ' I thought that hands hitting a drum ought to be as good as hands rubbing together, and I'd know it was really a dream as I had no drum in bed!

Eventually I found myself in bed in the dark, but I felt certain that I was still dreaming. I rose up into the air as a test and was outrageously happy to find myself still dreaming and lucid'.

I flew outside, where it was full daylight'.

Suddenly I was in my house and it was dark again, and I turned quickly to find a drum. I saw a big, unfamiliar drum sitting on the floor and immediately started playing it without risking losing it by pausing to get it up off the floor for better resonance. I played Kakilambe [a somewhat complex African dance rhythm]. The sound was indeed dull and my hands felt awkward, but I exerted will and improved both; soon the sound was surprisingly resonant. I felt very pleased with my success at improving the quality of the dream'.

'.found the water was running in the sink. As I was clearly quite stable in the dream state I felt I could afford to continue acting responsibly within the dream, and go turn the water off. I figured I could enjoy walking to the sink, anyway, and I sort of skipped over with tiny, bouncing steps. That reminded me: "Dancing!'

I turned off the water and then tried it. At first I was dancing across the floor and it was very fun but strange because no matter how I moved my feet, it felt like they were both together and touching each other. I figured they probably were, in my physical body in bed, and that must be what I was feeling ' maybe I was even trying to move them in my sleep. I floated up into the air and tried several mid-air ballet-like maneuvers ' leaps, twirls ' "All this stuff I can't really do!' I thought delightedly. I was exceedingly happy even though I felt a little awkward and sometimes ended up in very ungraceful positions!'.

0430 [LD]

0545 [Upon becoming lucid] I thought I should find a drum, quickly; I found a cylindrical ice cream carton with a lid, and drummed on it. It needed an opening in the bottom so I made it have a round hole, and that improved the sound.

In the garage of my childhood home, I was flying and talking'.

I was holding a 35mm film can ' possibly the improvised drum had changed into this ' and I also had a little yellow sticky-note paper which I tore into bits and stuffed into the film can as I flew around the garage, just as something to do and enjoy the realism of doing. I wanted to go outside and fly'.

31 December / 1 January

0600 [LD]

0845 [On becoming lucid] I also began to wake. So I commenced hand-rubbing ' it was working; it felt very real ' and at the same time remembering that I'd hoped to have more drumming experiences to report to adastra, since my hands were occupied I imagined someone tying my djembe around my waist for me. But in my physical body there was a pause in my breathing followed by a sudden intake of breath which woke me up.

Insistent, I straightaway began imagining drumming. I thought, "Slow is okay, maybe even good in dreams,' and dream very rapidly took over as I hit the drum with a large swinging motion of alternating hands. It felt real enough although I couldn't hear much and I only saw white light, and I seemed to be moving as if through the air. I found myself standing beside the road on a hill ten miles from home, with my eyes still closed, but also seeing myself as if from above; and heard an unseen entity instructing me: "Good. Now you can move about without seeing or hearing,' and urging me to go onto the highway and head north.

There isn't much traffic on that road but what there is tends to be big trucks, and besides, this was right where I once hit a deer. So I chickened out and woke up, but only long enough to become aware that my heart rate roughly corresponded to the beat of the drum (slow ' I counted 49 bpm later, before getting out of bed) and to have the thought, "Why not consider this some sort of valid shamanistic training?' With that I was dreaming again and on the road, happily bounding northward with big half-flying steps, vividly feeling my feet touch the pavement, and hearing myself mentally articulate the phrase, "Good, now I don't have to run all the way to my childhood home" ' without knowing what I meant by that. The bright image that appeared was my old hometown as if I were zooming down into it from the north, but stopping not at my childhood home but a house a little further along the road.

I woke, and pondered the significance of that house: The only time I was ever in it was as a six-year-old, when the big seventh-grade boy who lived there met up with me walking home from school, asked if I could read the book I was carrying, and wound up taking me home to read from several big books and declaring me a "genius." I think this means something about dreaming but I'm not sure what.

I think it has something to do with acknowledging that something anyone can learn to do just came more easily to me, and maybe not hiding it but being more open about it ' thus opening myself to more opportunities to learn how to develop and use the ability to benefit all. Advise me, lucid friends!

Joy

(P.S. I told my sister about this dream and she pointed out to me that when I left the place where I'd hit a deer, I was bounding like a deer ' maybe I could think of the deer having granted me this. I like that. She also reminded me that the big boy up the street played drums; sometimes we could hear him practicing. I'd forgotten that!)

Joy,

Have you contemplated the concept of the akashic records, aka, the hall of records? Have you developed a corresponding metaphor? Have you included such a metaphor in your lucid dream arena with the purpose of accessing information/knowledge?

As for me, I have not been LDing of late. I remind myself of a lover who has been given a gift by her true love. The lover spends time with the gift, forms a relationship with the gift, becomes infatuated with it, and (temporarily) forgets about/ignores her true love. She forgets to spend time with her true love because she is so distracted by, busy with, sometimes frustrated with, the wonderful gift that her true love has given her.

The gift of course is my life, family and job. I have not been giving time to pursuits that strengthen my relationship with the Divine. I do like reading of your progress, however, so thank you for your postings.

Mary

Mary - I have no idea what you're referring to in your first paragraph, I regret to say.... Can you elucidate? Meanwhile I'll try a web search on "akashic records" and see what turns up. Thanks!

Surely your life, family and job are part of your relationship with the Divine, which has plenty of time to enjoy watching you cherish your gifts.

I'm right now at a phase of life when family and job are less demanding and I have the precious leisure and opportunity to explore other aspects of awareness. The ability to dream lucidly is the gift I'm now unwrapping. What I seek from all forum members are your thoughts on how to nurture, share and use it for the greatest benefit to all.

Valuing your insights,

Joy

Joy,

I have seen the concept of the akashic records defined in a myriad of ways: etheric storehouse of knowledge; cosmic record of all events, thoughts, feelings, etc, through all space and time--anything that has occurred, is occurring, or will occur is recorded in the akashic records. If you have done a web search, I'm sure you have found much material. I have particularly liked the Edgar Cayce material which has a lot to offer to any seeker, but there's lots of other good material as well.

Cayce's descriptions are as a library with record keepers who were helpful to him in accessing information--mostly, I might add, he was accessing the records to help other people.

I have known people who go up elevators to a top floor which houses a library and the hall of records is within the library. Some who go up terraced mountains to temples which house the hall of records. Others who access them in a desert cave, or on a beach, or in an underwater cave. On a space sattelite, in a moon crater, within the core of the earth. Or one can go micro and picture the hall of records contained within a single cell. Whatever metaphor the imagination creates, I suppose, can suffice.

Does that help elucidate?

Mary

Yes, thanks; I'll apply for a library card tonight!

Joy

Hi everybody... I don't post frequently but here are my two cents:

Till one year ago I've never heard anything about akashic record or libraries or whatever related. But I had a very interesting "dream" about 2 years ago. It was not a "complete/standard" LD since I was conscious that I was "there" but not conscious I was dreaming.

I was walking on a dark and empy street at nigh when I arrived at a corner where was my first floor apartment. But there were some suspicious guys standing at the corner and I decided to continue walking instead of getting in my front stairway door.

The street went getting narrower and narrower. There were a lot of little stores with the doors closed and the external lights on.

Suddently I felt the urge to urinate and looked for a place were I could hide myself and do it. I turned a corner and begun to flutuate. Imediatly I closed my fly and the urge disappeared. The night gradualy went off and I begun to see a landscape like little european farms. Trees were aranged to make large square areas to crop on the ground and I saw several little castle like homes, with 4 towers each corners. The sky were blue with normal clouds. It remembered me something like French countryside despite I'm a brazilian citizen living in my onw country and never went to europe that time.

I begun then to getting lower and lower till I saw some pine trees and became a little concern about crashing on them. But I pass through without any problem. There were high ones and there on the ground there was having something like a funeral. I could see a lot of graves, the sun rays passing through the misty air in the mornig between the high trees.

I became a little upset thinking if that could be my funeral but it was not. I went softly to the groud and could see that all the trees textures, a deer, the grass, were ultra-realistic, as if it was like an old artistic Disney cartoon.

Then I saw this not-so-old lady using a gray dress and a open pullover with a white skirt. She tells me she were there waiting for me and that there were not much people who could go there.

She then lead me to the near castle basement that we could go in using a side door. It was a very heavy granite door that turned around its center when another unknow guy went to it and press a litlle card against the middle of the door.

When we got in, the first room was fabulous. There were two counter-like low bars in a kind of rotating device that controled the number of people that went in that hall.

There were two cubic stones by my right, about 25 cm side each, with black chinese ou something-like-that signs carved on them. From the top of these stones, there was water flowing down over the sides. Both were there over retangular wood sticks. All the hall roof were covered with wood plates with these strange characters and the wood depth were painted in black. But the "letter" itself were in gold as if there were a gold plate bellow that wood plaques.

All the roof shape were as if you were inside a pyramid and had cutted the top. The next room was really BIG! It was like a huge library room with thousands of books and all of it glowed in a kind of golden light. There were several persons inside it doing I don't know what.

At this point the next thing I remember is being on my bed awaken.

It is interesting since I heard about this akashic thing only a year after this "dream" ... but unfortunately, at least consciously, I've never returned to that little castle.

mario

Sorry for posting again on the same subject but about this akashic libraries I would like to add that, the interesting thing about this "dream" is that I never heard anything about this library thing before the "dream", I was not intending to have a flying dream, and I was not looking for anything like books, knowledge or libraries.

The only thing I was looking for was to talk to my departed wife by an OBE... and, eventualy I didn't got it - unfortunately 8-(

mario

Mario - fascinating dream...interesting connection. Mary - I'm going to apply for a card, too. I read Edgar Cayce years ago, when a kid. I got his books out of an earthly library. Knowledge to all, Kate

Mario,

Nice dream. I like pyramids. I would love to hear what could happen if you went back into that same dream and dialogued with the "several persons inside it doing I don't know what."

Best wishes on relating with your departed wife. Have you read Reunions by Raymond Moody?

Mary

Kate,

Cayce is fascinating. I was lucky enough to spend time at the library in Virginia Beach that has all his trance readings available on the shelf. There is a fellow by the name of John Van Auken that gives conferences and workshops regarding Cayce and related materials, and I have gotten a lot out of the couple I attended.

Mary

Hi Mary...

Yeah... I would like to go there (Akashic library) again more conciously... who knows?

There are more "things" between "here" and "there" that can imagine our poor mind/imagination !!!!

I have Raymond Moody's Reunions book but this kind of contact is not what I'm looking for.

There's a "different" thing happening between my wife and me: we REALLY lived a conscious paradise life here together. In almost 20 years of marriage we had HALF of a discussion (argument??? what's the correct word for this marriage quarrels in english????)!!!! Believe or not!!!!

There was also several episodes when we spontaneously had the same dream and waked from dreaming the same dream, been at the same "place" doing the same things. But we were very young at that time and asked a spiritual guide to help us on not having any more of that experiences.

At that time that spiritual guide told us he tought it was great we were having that kind of experience but, as I told you, we were very young and were frightned by that "weird" but also delicious experiences. At that time, it didn't fit in my cause-and-efect and linear model of life.

So, some time later, to our relief at that time, the experiences stoped. Also in our 20 years together, I had only 3 out-of-body-like experiences.

Than we had a terrible car accident that destroyed our family. This was almost 5 years ago. My wife's and my 15 years old daughter's bodies died and I decided that having OBE's was our way out to continue living our conscious paradise life together. Since then I've writen down all my experiences, went to Monroe Institute once (I'm intending to return again this year), listen almos everyday some of its tapes, doing some primitive meditation (I'm not a pro in this matters 8-) ) and some self hypnosis lately.

Today I have more than 3,000 dreams writen down in this 5 year period, about 50 OBE's or OBE like experiences and lately (the last 2 years) about 50 or more lucid dreams (about 500 handwriten pages on notebooks and 900 Word files).

The LD is increasing last months I really don't know why ... I guess it's because of my focus on it. LD seens to me a more broad, general and more inclusive experience than "simple" OBE's... You can meet more with your-"self" and experience a more wide range of "realities". OBEs seems to me a particular case of Lucid Dreams since we can ask if we are really dreaming or not right now!!!

So, what we (my wife and me) are looking for is to live our Love any-way! LOVE demands to be completly experienced, till its last drop, in the unique point os awareness we really have: HERE AND NOW!. And it's not because our bodies dies that we shall wait and wait and wait...

In time: hope is the last terrible thing that remained in Pandoras' box!!! (look for the original story) It's not in intself a "good" thing! SO, we have to solve/live our "dreams" and desires in the unique moment avaiable: Here-and-Now!

There's always a way out when the "prize" worths!

Thanks anyway to remember me about "Reunions".

best dreams for all!

mario

PS: sorry for the poor english, ok?

Hi, Joy

Shamanic drumming is supposed to facilitate entering into an altered state of consciousness, in this case, to "re-enter" a dream. Some people might argue the point of whether it is "really" a dream, but I think it is possible that some sort of WILD might result. In any case, Moss talks about dream reentry through shamanic drumming in his book CONSCIOUS DREAMING, and has an exercise for it in his recorded workshop DREAM GATES: A Journey Into Active Dreaming, which is basically a workshop recorded onto 6 cassettes. I have it, but haven't used it yet (and probably won't in the near future).

I've seen tapes of shamanic drumming, any shamanic drumming should work. I think the basic idea is to relax and let the drum beat carry you into an altered state, possibly with the intention of re-entering a particular dream - or just let it take you where it will.

Here is a quote from CONSCIOUS DREAMING. Quote:

Shamanic drumming, perhaps the oldest technology for transcendence, seems to work amazingly well with rational, Western-educated people in the post-industrial era...If the exercise is properly framed, and the purpose is clearly stated, nine out of ten participants embark on powerful, fully conscious dream journeys on their first exposure to a drumming session that may last no longer than twelve to fifteen minutes.

Shamanic drumming...At it's simplest...is one or more drummers beating at a steady rate, usually four to seven beats per second. This drumming may produce striking vibratory effects...

The steady, peremptory beat serves as a focus for concentration. It helps get rid of the clutter. It quiets the chatterer and numbs the skeptic who live in our heads. It reduces the tendency of the "monkey mind" to wander off in any direction. It overrides old mental patterns...

Some psysiologists believe that shamanic drumming may harmonize neural activity inside the brain with the frequency of the beat, an effect that is also described as "sonic driving." The pace of the drumbeat corresponds to brain-wave frequencies in the theta band (four to eight hertz) associated with the hypnagogic state and its dreamlike imagery. The theory is that during exposure to shamanic drumming, our brain waves get in step with the beat, carrying us into the patterns of the theta state and its corresponding flow of images.

According to your preferred model, you can choose to believe that shamanic drumming works because "sonic driving" herds brain waves into the theta band, or because it helps the dreambody to get loose from the physical body, or because you have spirit guides who are eager to communicate and will give you a lift as soon as you open yourself up to them. What matters, demonstrably, is that shamanic drumming works - faster, more reliably, and more safely than certain alternative techniques for inducing altered states of consciousness. It is certainly a welcome alternative to "improving the mind through chemicals." It may also be better adapted than Eastern methods of meditation in assisting Westerners, with our endemic hurry-sickness, to get beyond our left brains.

Hope this information is useful to you, Joy. Thanks for the fascinating report on dream drumming and dancing. It delights me when I influence people's dreams like that!

Mario,

I can see why you would want to continue with such a wonderful and close relationship. Sounds great. I would like to hear a report of your next visit to the Monroe Institute--I liked his books.

No need to apologize for your English. I wish that I could communicate half so well in a second language. What is your primary language? Portuguese? Or maybe Spanish?

Mary

Hi Mary...

The Monroe tapes are very exciting and intriguing.. there is a "fenomenon" that happens when you listen to some of them called "click out". It's just like this: you really click out!!! It's not like dozze off to sleep... You are fully concious, listening to a tape and, all of a sudden you .... continue conscious... but it has passed perhaps half an hour or more. You can't notice or remember anything!!! A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G !!!!! (this is my personal experience, of course!)

The explanation they have for this is that for some unknown reason you are not prepared yet to remember what happened while "you" were "out"...

It's not a good explanation, but is the best I could discover.

With another tapes, they depend on who is listening: some of them has a spetacular effect and to others, no effect!

But if you persevere, things probably will gonna happen.

I strongly recomend any Monroe tapes but advise: don't give up untill you had tried for at least one month on a consistet basis.

I'll tell you if I go there this year. You know how are money budget and stuff... 8-)

By the way: our native language is Portuguese. 8-)

best dreams

mario

Mario,

I have heard another person describe her experience at the Monroe Institute in much the same way, that is, going somewhere way out there, not falling asleep, but not remembering where she had been. She found it to be energizing and exhilerating. She said that it definitely was not sleep.

Which Monroe tape would you recommend to someone that has never listened to one?

Mary

Greetings, fellow LD'ers:

The Monroe Institute topic sounds quite interesting...

Domminic, who I met in Maui (Hey Dom!) first mentioned it/him to me while driving. He said something to the effect "most people go there in hopes of having an OBE, but end up having a LD".

This makes me wonder about the connection between the two. ...

In the past few months I have had a few coincidental (?) occurances...One was seeing a quote by Edgar Casey where he predicted the Lucidity Institute 45 years ago. Further, I saw a book in the marked down box on a sidewalk book sale my a MacMonegal (sp?) called "The Ultimate Time Machine". He was the mysterious Mr. X in a goverment "see-ers" program (Stargate, I believe). These topics really have me wondering if there is a time travel ability within this altered state, and moreso if we LDers can ourselves do it..???

zzzzZZZ(Dreaming of more Simple Times) z z z Joe

Hi, Joe. I never thanked you for welcoming me to the forum back in October. I appreciated it. Re the time travel thing, this is what Robert Moss says in Conscious Dreaming: "Where your explorations in conscious dreaming will take you will be determined by your purpose, your courage, and your familiarity with the many levels of dreaming. After attending some of my workshops, a Wall Street attorney reports a series of fascinating experiments in "folding time" through conscious dreaming. He recently hooked up with a physician in Victorian London, circa 1870, and says they have been investigating the nature of time travel together.' Moss doesn't like the term "lucid" dreaming, and is disdainful about novadreamers because they aren't natural. But I'm not taking any source as my great guru. Just taking what's useful to me. There's so much material out there! I haven't even started with the Tibetan guys yet. Moss also talked about sexual energy powering spiritual journeys, and about how in many other cultures, people see this connection rather than feeling sexuality and spirituality are "opposites." And that was kind of a coincidence, because I was reading that portion right after the subject came up on the forum. Basically Mary introduced it in response to Lisa's question. Although that was on a different site... Anyway, Sweet and successful dreams Kate

Hi Mary and all...

Regardig Monroe tapes:

I use (and recomend), with a lot of successes, the tape "FLYING FREE" It has two sides, one verbal and other with only sounds.

I use it with the "wake-up-get-back-to-bed" method. Every day I wake up about 03:00-04:00 AM, work a little (about 1 or 2 hours) at the computer and then go back to bed. Them I put this tape to run on my auto-reverse walkman and go to sleep. I have two computer speakers each one by my bed side. But of course you can use that tiny earphones.

Meanwhile I repeat to myself: "Next time I'm dreaming I'll remember I'm dreaming!" or some variation like "Next time I'm flying I'll know I'm dreaming!".

It's almost sure I'll dream I'm flying and then it's much more easy to gain lucidity.

Try this one and tell us, ok?

best dream regards

mario

Greetings, Fellow LD'ers:

I have mentioned the film "Waking Life" once or twice here, and am very suprised no one chimed in...I caught it in Cincinnati, where Mark Twain said "eveything happens 20 years later"!

There is a web page.. www.wakinglife.com check it out...

I am happy to say that when I touched the link that read "What is Lucid Dreaming?" it connected me to the LI's FAQ page!!

I would not be suprised if SLB had some more input into this fantastic movie...

zzzzZZZ("Dream is Destiny" into message from film) z z z z z Joe

Joe, I'm gonna be the one to pick up the glove (do you use this saying or am I just translating the untranslatable?). I somewhat missed your prevouis posts concerning the movie but I feel your enhusiasm has some serious reason so I'm gonna try my best to get a copy of it [ probably an illegal rip somewhere on the Internet - got no other chance ]. I've quickly rushed through the site which is just BEAUTIFUL and really dreamy - but I prefer to know as little as possible about any movie I'm willing to see, so I don't want to gahter any more information on it. However, the interactive oracle on that site is wonderful piece of net-art and I want to encourage everyone to go there and try it for themselves!

I'll post more when I've seen the movie so bye till then and thanks for a tip.

______ dreams!

Mikolas

Hi Joe, Miko etc

Glad to hear your enthusiasm also, Joe! There has indeed been discussion on Waking Life, on the "forum films" section, a subheading of "Miscellaneous." I loved this movie, and saw it each of the first days it appeared in local theatres. I plan to buy a copy of it, and hopefully get ahold of a copy of the script at some point. This is the movie on lucid dreaming I've waited for since becoming interested in the subject. I have more to say in Forum Films. I'd really like to hear in detail what others thought, so zip on over to Forum Films and let 'em rip!

Mario, thanks for the Flying FRee recommendation, I may try that out at some point...

Mario,

I looked on the Monroe Institute website for the Flying Free tape. It apparently is sold as part of the Hemi-Sync series, available either in the subject album (6 tapes) or the support album (6 tapes). I am not sure how I want to order it, and will ask the website for clarification. Do you have any further advice?

Mary

Hello LD community I am a new member of LI and I am absolutely beside myself with joy that someone is talking about WAKING LIFE. I absolutely loved that movie and I believe that my subconscious also found it to be inspirational because I slipped into some effortless LD action the evening that I saw the movie. Unfortunately I only have flashbulb memory of the dream(s), so the context is rather blurry. I know it entailed me walking by myself in the woods on a path to New York City, and I awoke when I discovered a beautiful weasel type animal that quickly morphed into a calico cat and followed me. I was unable to manipulate anything around me, except that I was able to run and run without getting winded. It was exhilirating. No "lift off" this time, however... Tracy from New Jersey

A Jersey girl. All right.

Hello,fellow LD'ers:

Thanks, Tracy, Adastra, Miko for "chiming in". Sorry, Keelin, for not abiding by your so well organized topical structure.

Yes, the film has raised awarness, at least with the sub-culture willing to go and see alternative films. But, I dont know if presenting LD'ing along with the other metephysical topics is the correct exposure in order to gain public acceptance of LD'ing as an actual REAL occurance...? We all know it DOES happen, but we are so lucky to actually practice it!

If I break the ice with someone (discuss LD's, that is), it is the mention of SLB's "eye signal revelation" that is the small bit of unrefutable science that most often captures thier interest. But just getting to that point can be hard... Oh, it is so frustrating at times! It is a great feeling when someone goes from thinking I am a crackpot, to actually expressing an interest and asking about this website!

zzZZ(Another "Social Lubricator of the Dream World"!) z z z Joe

Note: My recent posts have kept LD'ing in the forefront of my mind, and sparked near nightly frequency!! Thanks, to you all!!