Dear fellow dreamers!

SND means SuperNovaDreamer

@Owen: While I'm not in the lab, the only way to differentiate between "still relaxing" and "already dreaming" is, whether I feel my physical body in the position I remember taking, when I lay down. This method is not 100% safe. But it seems, that you actually dreamed and moved in the dream and then you awoke, as you tried handrubbing. Congratulations anyway.

@Alan: Feels good to remember the gazebo. Although I don't smoke anymore. I very much enjoyed our meetings there. Thanks for the hints concerning sleep - posture. I had tried it earlier, especially in the evening after the relaxation on my back. But I can't relax and stay focussed in this position. I stay awake or sleep.

@James: Your absolutely right. Sometimes its not that easy to convince myself to put on my mask and do the 61 points in the face of my warm, tender and beloved girl.

@Mikolas: Welcome back (honestly, I have to look up your posts, once I have the time...)

@Joan: Thanks for your support. I relate my decision to stop smoking to your words, too. You are right to suspect, that I do cough much less. And because I stopped drinking coffee, too, my relaxation works too fast. I drift away nearly in the moment I close my eyes. That's why I have to relearn relaxation and staying focussed since then, but I succeed. And it seems, that it will be much easier, to enter dreamstate, once I've mastered the new "neuro - vegetative" situation.

@Mario: Welcome to the Forum!

Your questions are mine. You've got the point! I, too have the impression, that I have again and again to convince as many parts of myself, as possible, to take the effort and continue the dream - work. There are some forces inside me, that seem to prevent lucidity. Lucidity simply is no habit! Every new skill gets habitual after some time. In my eyes the key to lucid being still is: Making a habit of remembering to wake up from habitual frame of mind and test my state.

Could you go into detail about Monroe's tapes regarding lucid dreaming? I'm very interested in the work of Monroe.

May all your dreams and lives be filled with lucid beams of light

Yours Ralf

Hi everybody...

and thanks to all who read my message.

Alan...as much as possible I'll be posting my questions and experiences and hope they can help other people too 8-)

Ralf:

I went to the Monroe Institute and spent a week there two uears ago. I must tell you it was completly different I could expect.

But, anyway, I would recoment it to those who have the money and time to go there. It can be very instructive.

The Ludid Dreaming tapes are quite good altough I cannot say that due to then I had any lucid state. To me, and this is only my personal experience, the LD 4 tape is guaranteed to make me dream!!! And perhaps, have a lucid state! But, to me, it is not a sure shot! Despite os this, they're very good ones. I use them together with the wake-up and go back to bed metod almost every week. I would recomend it too.

My greater project is to "teach" "normal" people to dream. This is, in my opinion, the only simple and regular method to people heal theirs hearts when a beloved one body dies.

We have a Grief support group here and I can say that almost everybody has a great relief when dreams with their beloved ones.

But our ocidental culture does not teach and does not give any importance to dreaming life! It's almost a crime!

We must learn it to teach it, or at least live in a different way, a happier and more productive way. Living this way, someday, some body will asks why we're so happy when our relatives and beloved one's died. And then will be able to say: "But I dream of/with them everynight!"

best dreams!!!

mario

Mario,

I have the same problem of wearing out each method in one or two tries, and used to ascribe it to my habit of having a somewhat pessimistic bent of mind. But recently I have read with great amazement the book "no boundaries" by Ken Wilbur, and in view of what he says, there is also the possibility that I have to break through a barrier of resistance in the subconscious that is there naturally. In any case, I think that with patience and perseverance we can get to the point of having LD with regularity.

Chris

Hi Chris!!!

Yeah! I think that there could be something like these "barrier" inside me. The "funny" thing is that it looks like a "dumb" barrier since I can sometimes jump over it. And IT LETS ME jump over it!!! If it was a REAL barrier I think I could never, anyway, jump over it!

So what now?

I think that probably there are a non-concious barrier and also there is a deep BELIEF (altough not concious too) that this barrier exist and can prevent me going "there".

Some year or two after our car accident, I had a "dream" where I waked up out-of-my-body, near my bed, almost in front of my bedroom window. It was night and the room was dark, iluminated only by the city lights reflected by the clouds in the sky.

I was laying in the floor and asked for help to stand up, but nobody helped me. So, I had to get up for myself. Then I saw there were four people I don't know there standing and staring at me. One of them, a not-so-high old man, with a little white beard and tiny round glasses, came to me an pointed me directly in my face with his finger. He said: "I declare (or I proclame - I don't remember clearly) you are Free!!!"

I stared at him for a few seconds and said: "Wow!" But I was like a teenager and asked:

"Are you all from SBEE?"

SBEE is the spiritualistic society me and my wife worked on together for about 15 years. One of them knoded afirmatively. There were 2 or 3 man and at least one woman. As the room was dark, I could barely see their faces.

As an inconsequent teenager I asked: "It's my body there on the bed?"

And I received another head sing that it was so. "Can I look at it?" and pushed my head between two of them.

What I saw was a young man lying there (my body now is about 48) different from myself and looking like Keith Moon from the rock group The Who.

The next instant I was awaked, lying in my bed. I noticed anything like a movement sensation or waking up feeling. One instant I was aware and standing out-of-my-body and the next instant I was aware leying on my bed.

Well, this is it. Something, someone, from my subconcious or not, gave the permission to do whatever I decided to. But, things didn't changed so much.

Perhaps the main question is my not-concious BELIEF that I don't deserve it, or that I can't do it.

Beliefs ar like sun glasses with fifferent colours. All of us use them all the time and the most difficult ones are the transparent ones.

They make us feel like we're using no glasses at all!!!

So, is anyone seeing the glasses I'm wearing???

all of the best

mario

@Alan, Dominic, Mikolas and all right side (not right wing ;-> ) nappers

I tried the recommended position prior to night sleep. And I had the impression, I could relax. Especially my throat and neck - region is better relaxed in this position. And that's were I'm glued to, when the take off to dreamland is to happen. But yesterday I wasn't able to stay in the recommended position for more than ca. 15 minutes. I'll give it another 20 or 30 tries.

@Mario and Chris

Chris, thanks for the book - title. I've already read "Up from Eden" a time ago. I very much enjoy Wilber's approach to life. The "barrier" is a very exciting and often frustrating subject. Sometimes it seems that easy to enter dreamland, as if it doesn't exist. Sometimes it seems impossible to cross. I still have the impression, that - especially regarding my WILD practice - there has to be a certain mood, that's not easy to be described. It's rather emotional, than rational. I think, it is right to say, that we are free, if we feel so. Free from pain, fear, suffering, distress, shame, hate. We have to be detached, not enmeshed in daily life, but alive. And then it is necessary to be trained, to have the right technique available to deal with all kinds of situations emerging on the way into dreamworld. And, as I found out lately, there is a physiological aspect to it, too. If I smoke too much and drink coffee all day, it's very hard to relax. If I haven't been into physical activity, I can't relax. And of course, there is a rational aspect. Our beliefs play an important role regarding what we can perceive and do both in waking and dreaming world. There are so many variables... I still haven't reached the point, where the barrier entirely looses its force on me, but I will reach it. That while I just go over it again and again, just cut in the path deeper and deeper every time, I'm on the way.

Mario, I find your approach regarding working on grief using dreams very worthy. That's one thing, I will surely imply, once I start my business as "Heilpraktiker".

Glasses: I don't think, your or my glasses are transparent (without a colour). But we are so long used to wear them, that we have forgotten, how the world looks, when unshaded. But if we take off the glasses of belief, we still look through the eyes of ignorance, of not knowing, what really goes on. No matter we don't know, what's really going on, we can do something! We can experiment and experience. And exchange thoughts and use methods and see, whether we can replicate something, whether we find, that our experiences have something in common. We can refine our methods to find new consent about former seemingly woo woo experiences. And we can have a lot of highs and a lot of fun while doing so. That's science!

Keep on good work

Yours Ralf

Ralf & Maui Group -

If your curious about the Monroe Institute (TMI) and programs, etc. Please e-mail me separately since it's a bit different than the LD topics we generally cover here. I don't know if I mentioned to the Maui Group that I've had an affiliation with TMI for about 18yrs and go there annually.

Though it's not an LD institue and the programs only ocassionally stimulate LD/Classical OBEs, the "inner tools" and techniques are very effective in ASC work. At least I have found them to be so...

You Maui Guys/Gals have my private mail, should you want to go further on this. For anyone else, TMI has a website for 7 day residential programs (eight now) and HemiSync(tm) technology. There are also 2-3 day into extension seminars available around the country/globe. BTW, HS is their method of promoting ASCs including LDs.

Shimmering Light, Dominick

Thanks Dominick and Ralf for sharing this information,

It's nice to have the world wide web... I didn't know about the form until two weeks after Hawaii, I could have read somewhere, but didn't ! Hermine

Hi, Dominick!

Nice to see you. I'm interested in the Monroe Institute. I'll post you, once I have the time to phrase my questions.

So long

Ralf

Hi guys,

I need some help here. Over the last few weeks I have ben having the most amazing dreams. Really long and vivid. Only thing is, I just cannot seem to realise that I am dreaming. I just don't catch the hints ...... I have started recording my dreams in a dream journal - not all the the time, but when I feel that they are significant enough to perhaps indicate a new dreamsign. This morning for instance ..... I had a terrible long dream about me stopping a bomb from going off, but it seems that all my efforts on becomming Lucid are not working.

Are there any suggestions from anyone. I am reading LaBerges' Books before bed too, and I am trying my best to do the exercises to induce WILDS etc. but it seems they are not working..... ..........HELP!!!

Starving for Dream Food, Daniel PS-Can you not buy Lucid Dreams from corner shops ? ;-) hehe

Dear Daniel,

it seems that all my efforts on becomming Lucid are not working.

You mean your efforts are not working "yet"! ;-> If you're getting enough sleep, recording your dreams and noting dream signs, doing reality checks, informing yourself with reading on the subject, and doing the awareness exercises, you are traveling in the right direction! Be assured that every step counts and that continuing along optimistically will get you where you want to be sooner that lingering in the land of discouragement.

Strong motivation is also an essential part of preparing to lucid dream at will. Do you have a clear goal for your upcoming lucid dream? What kind of dream food do you want on your menu?

May you soon be feasting! Keelin

Hi every body!!!

I have a strange question: I read in every book or article on dreams you have to write down your dreams contents and look for dreamsigns. Then you have to look for these dreamsigns in your dreams so you can program yourself everytime you see this or that inside your dream you can become lucid.

Ok. That's great! I can imagine people with about 1 or 2 dreams a night and 5-10 dreams a week doing this. Dreams are a not so common thing to them so they can see some dreamsigns.

My "problem" is that I have LOTS of dreams! With LOTS of contents!

In the last 4 year I've been writing them all down, I've had almost 2,500 dreams writen, including some OBEs and LD!!!!

The problem is that there are SO many different things happening in my dreams I'm not sure what shall I take for a dreamsign!!! The most common issues are cars, streets and buildings, but they're not specific enough . That's all I can detect happens with some frequency. But the rest is incredible different: from dead mooses to whales looking at me while I'm in a boat near the coast. From hospitals to walking in the forest, seeing bears and stuff. From been killed in a medieval castle after a cardinals meeting to floating over a "place" where people comes to "dream".... From seeing women crying and grieving a semi-death body in the middle-east to driving a Mercedes to have a treking on the walls of a volcano... See what I mean?

Any suggestions?

best dreams

mario

Keelin > My menu is far too great to write on paper, and besides, I may look a little greedy with such a big appetite ..... ;-)

Thanks for the support. I am over my 'down' stage now. I still have not managed to break the dry spell. This desert of plain sleep is long....

I have been experiencing a lot of sleep paralysis over the past week, so I am hoping this is a good sign. Will let you know when I ride the tidal wave of my dreams !

No smoking on this bus please Daniel

Dear Mario

Just look for dreamsigns, that lead to lucidity in your dreams. And focus on recognising them day and night. Or just focus on recognising all strange phenomena. Just like Keelin put it: "Odd. How odd is it? Reality check!". Or, if you are so used to remember the dreaming side, try Jason's "technique" to see everything as made of thoughts, as of the nature of dreams, day and night. "The first thing I do is to keep in mind the dream-like nature of everyday life."

Keep on trying

Yours Ralf

Mario > The best dream signs I find, are ones that are impossible for us to experience in real life. For instance : One of my dream signs would be my father, because I know he lives in another country and I hardly ever see him.

Try to pick up on common denominators. That's what I do.

I am sure you get the point.. ;-) Good luck.

It's just a step to the right, Daniel

Hi! Yesterday night I woke up about 3:00 am and went back to bed at 04:30. Then I begun to repeat to myself till fall asleep: "Next time I see anything strange, I'll test if I'm dreaming." I also let the Monroe Institute Lucid Dreaming # 4 running all the time (wich happens to be a good tape that makes me dream almost every time I use it).

Then I had a very long dream where I flight a lot inside two rooms I've never has been before, made acrobacies in the air and heard a person I know talking something I couldn't understand anyway... the words were truncated, cutted, scrambled.

So....

Or I am not succeding on pass to my dreaming mind the instructions to perceive anything strange,

or

I have a very little critical mind while I'm dreaming.

Any suggestions?

mario

Hi, Mario

Mind is less critical in dreams. This is why strange things seem familiar. You have to learn to recognise familiar things (dreamsigns) and do RC, or "simply" increase lucidity in their presence. This is the reason, why we do the Dream - Sign - Awareness Training.

Ralf

Hi folks! Hi Ralf!

It happened again!!!

Today I had at least two dreams full of clues and didn't get lucid anytime.

The first one I was in a place like China (wich I has never been before), with a viaduct with little chinese roofs style over the guard rails on both sides. I looked at one of them from bellow and asked myself if it was different or not from the other one. Also I saw the cars over the viaduct had their steering whells (is this the correct word????) on the right side, and the other cars, bellow the viaduct had theirs on the left side. There were people talking in chinese but I dind't notice this a strange thing.

The next moment I remember I was walking on a large street between medieval castles somewhere in England, where I never went before too. I saw water on the street rocks and all the ambiente was clear and bright.

The next dream was ever weird! I had bought an wirelless optical computer mouse that had a little keypad or numeric keyboard on the botton. Then I went walking on the street, and the "mouse" rangs and it was a cell phone! A friend of mine was calling me and it begun to rain hard with wind. I heard a waiting line tone on the call but nothing call my attention to the strange equipment. There are other minor impossibilities too but this were the major ones.

As Ralf said, the mind is less critical in dreams. Also, to myself, is not like everything is a dream, but as much as everything is mental. As Heisenberg said, "We do not live in the universe but in a description of the universe." And a description is always mental.

So....

Does anybody knows any other technique to increase, or transfer the critical capability of the mind to this dream state?

I by myself am very analitical and logical. So it would be reasonable to expect to be aware of this "ilogical" or "impossible" things in dreamland. But, it seldon happens... 8-(

I think this logical capability works agains me since I almost always find a "reason" to things be the way they are - in this "more-material-world", no matter how strange they are!

One of the longest (about 30 seconds!!!!) lucid dreams I had, happened when I saw that the time sequence in the dream was impossible to happen in the "normal" world! So, sometimes, the mind critical/analitical capability is "on" but, most of the time, it is "off".

I've tried some self-hipgnosis but I have no way to measure the results...

best dreams to all

mario

Real is what promotes a change!

MISSED DREAMSIGNS ARE STEPPING STONES TO LUCIDITY ...IFF... If and only if, that is, you tell yourself when you notice one: "OK, next time THAT happens, I'll realize I'm dreaming!"

A common mistake among novice lucid dreamers is to focus on how uncritical their minds are during dreaming, using each missed dreamsign as another example proving that they "never recognize dreamsigns". This is, as I said, a mistake! If you do that, you use missed dreamsigns to learn that you're too unreflective/stupid/ or whatever to become lucid. This isn't what you want to learn, is it?

What you want to learn is how to recognize when you're dreaming by getting to know dreamsigns. Thus you should make sure you reflect on which parts of your dream could have told you you were dreaming, and RESOLVE THAT NEXT TIME SOMETHING LIKE THAT DREAMSIGN OCCURS, YOU WILL REMEMBER THAT YOU ARE DREAMING! This is the basic exercise as described in EXPLORING THE WORLD OF LUCID DREAMING and THE COURSE IN LUCID DREAMING. If you aren't absolutely clear about this point, you'd better re-read the book.

Having many dreamsigns means having many opportunities to set your intention. But you must do so, if you want results. This is how MILD is done.

Learning lucid dreaming isn't magic, but it does take careful attention to what you should be attending to, and setting your intentions to achieve what you intend to accomplish. Being clear about how exactly helps.

Mehr Licht! Stephen

@Stephen: Thanks for frustration support. I'm not that frustrated about missed dreamsigns anymore, but about dry periods, although I work and work...

@Mario: Take a look at my today's post in "dreamcamp maui 2001" Training our dreamsign - awareness pays off!

Keep on enlighting

Ralf

Hi folks!

Thanks Stephen for the clues! (hummmm... are you THE Stephen?????? ) And also thanks to Ralf.

What do you think would be the most interesting way to use the MILD techniques:

1)after you just awake from that dream and recognise the dreamsights you lost?

2)using the 61 points relaxation for instance, (or a self hipgnosis induction) several times a day to reafirm your intention to recognize this and that dreamsign you know you have been loosing?

3)while awake, simply remember several times a day your lost dreamsign list and remembering yourself you'll remember you're dreaming nest time you see anyone of them?

I'm also trying to repeat to myself while dozzing off "Next time I see anything I'll ask myself if I'm dreaming!" Poor results till now!

What do you think?

mario

Mario:

Not to put too fine a point on it, the only recommended and effective way to practice the MILD technique is: 1) immediately after awakening from a dream.

And yes, that is when you are supposed to think about dreamsigns and set your intention to recognize them in the future.

The only exception to the above advice is when practicing the sleep interruption/nap technique, you should awaken from a dream; memorize it; get out of bed for 30-60 minutes; then do MILD with that dream when you return to sleep.

In my view, the other two times you suggest are a waste of time. ;)

Again, RE-READ EXPLORING THE WORLD OF LUCID DREAMING! Improperly applied techniques are likely to accomplish little...

A Stephen I Am

Dry period time again

Following a long dry period in May, I had ten (mostly short LDs) in about the same number of days at the beginning of June....Now nothing again. It is really FRUSTRATING. During the clump I think I've cracked it...now I'm in "I'm never going to have another LD" mode.

I had this curiosity last week though, probably I can log it as an LD?

"I am sitting in the study looking at my computer screen. I am thinking about lucid dreaming and am playing with a computer program connected with dreaming. The screen has a random noise like pattern. I am focusing hard on this to produce lucidity. Everything goes black and I feel myself floating. I feel my body floating upwards from the chair. I am excited, I am having an OBE. Instead of allowing myself to drift back to the chair I allow myself to drift to where I believe is the floor. I "awake" from the dark OBE and am lying on the floor. Ending on the floor rather than in the chair proves to me it really was an OBE. I feel triumphant, finally an OBE. I get up and reflect on how I might generate a body in a future OBE by rubbing my hands or opening my eyes.' I awake.

Dry spells are frustrating to me because I just cannot identify any correlative factor. I read on a yahoo thread a poster with regular LDs(1-2/wk) suddenly have nothing for 2 months or so, but then the LDs restarted out of the blue.

There was some speculation that the brain needs time to recover in some way from LD learning and success.

Owen

MILD...Dear Stephen, your comments above about MILD and dreamsigns are very helpful to me.

Please could you clarify a couple of things.

With MILD is the intention to go back into the same dream and come across the same or similar dreamsigns, whether or not sleep is preceeded by a long period awake?

Can an expert MILD practitioner be expected to have LDs at will without a long period awake prior to nap? In this circumstance would the dreamer tend to go back into the same dream?

Do you think that the arousal involved in recalling the dream details described in your book might be playing a similar role physiologically to a longer period of awakening as in the Nap technique?

Perhaps I have been making an error with MILD. I have tended to use visualisations of my best dreamsigns irrespective of what happened in the preceeding dream. (I appreciate doing this does not follow your method, I just thought it was a good idea.) Also perhaps I am giving to much effort to the part of MILD where I resolve to remember to recognise rather than thinking about the dreamsigns...

Yours sincerely,

Owen

Dear Dreamers, Owen especially:

"DRYSPELLS" AND EXPECTATION IN LEARNING LUCID DREAMING

I have argued in my books that THE major factor determining dream content is EXPECTATION. Apply this concept to lucidity. If I have just had a LD, I feel like it is not really so unusual (recency effect) and having done it just now, why not again? "If one drop falls, why not two?" If on the other hand, it's been a while since I have had a LD, I begin to think "there must be a reason why I haven't had any LDs recently. Maybe I can't anymore!? Or at least they are relatively rare and thus I don't expect quite as much to have another one soon." I believe this sort of self-fulfilling prophesy is a partial explanation for the clustering on LDs that I have verified in the statistics of my own LDs. There are likely other factors, perhaps neurochemical as well as cycles of motivation and attention. Some of these may be beyond our controll, but we can become more aware of self-talk and correct maladaptive habits inhibiting our learning.

I often say to people trying to learn LDing that an important key is to realize that: LUCID DREAMING IS EASY! (That is, once you know how. ;) Like everything else.) Part of the challenge of learning lucid dreaming is to think of it as a straightforward skill that you can learn by applying yourself and PAYING ATTENTION TO WHAT YOU ARE DOING.

More Light! Stephen

SOME ANSWERS TO SOME FAQs ABOUT MILD

Q. With MILD is the intention to go back into the same dream and come across the same or similar dreamsigns, whether or not sleep is preceeded by a long period awake?

A. No, not usually the same dream. Usually not even the same dreamsigns. What you are practicing in MILD is SETTING YOUR INTENTION TO REMEMBER TO RECOGNIZE THAT YOU ARE DREAMING. How are you going to do that? By recognizing dreamsigns and remembering your intention.

Q. Can an expert MILD practitioner be expected to have LDs at will without a long period awake prior to nap? In this circumstance would the dreamer tend to go back into the same dream?

A. Certainly. When sufficiently 'in training' all that is necessary for results is to awaken from a dream and think "Oh yes, that was a dream. Next time I'm dreaming I want to remember I'm dreaming." Rarely the 'same dream'.

Q. Do you think that the arousal involved in recalling the dream details described in your book might be playing a similar role physiologically to a longer period of awakening as in the Nap technique?

A. Certainly. Thirty minutes of doing MILD (correctly, of course!) is probably much better than 30 minutes of wakefulness with no focus on LDing.

Q. Perhaps I have been making an error with MILD. I have tended to use visualisations of my best dreamsigns irrespective of what happened in the preceeding dream. (I appreciate doing this does not follow your method, I just thought it was a good idea.)

A. Yes I do think that is an error, only to be done if you don't remember anything from your previous dream (in which case I'd suggest you don't bother trying). NB if I thought it was a good idea, I would have said so. ;)

Q. Also perhaps I am giving too much effort to the part of MILD where I resolve to remember to recognise rather than thinking about the dreamsigns...

A. Perhaps. The two go together: you visualize doing what it is you want to remember to do later. The visualization is the Mnemonic part of the technique. But without the resolution to remember, the cue would be meaningless.

May Inner Light Dawn! Stephen

To Stephen (or anyone else for that matter),

The problem I have had with MILD would be falling asleep after the 30 minutes of staying awake(and yes, for more than 30 and less than 30 I still have problems. So lessening the time or increasing the time have not worked). would you have any recommendations to help me fall asleep while doing the MILD technique?

Joseph

Hi everybody! Hi Stephen!

Thanks for your answer! It will help me a lot, I'm sure. I begun practicising it this morning.

If possible folks, help to clear two more things:

1. Following what you've said, I guess the most important thing on recognizing dreamsigns just after awake from a dream (or even in the morning) is the "ATTITUDE" of recognizing dreamsigns. Is this correct??? The "closer" the dream the best I suppose.

2. So... if the attitude is everything, what do you think if I do the following: everytime I see something looking like one thing, one movement, one emotinal state, one situation I remember from a dream, shall I do a RC??? Even awake?

I'm asking this cause I'm not sure what are my dreamsigns... As I wrote some messages ago, I have A LOT OF DREAMS!!! And practically all of them are completly different. So, If I understood correctly, the main thing is the attitude of recognizing any relevant part of a dream - if a "dreamsign" the better. If it's not a dreamsign but it's from a dream you remember, you can use it... Or shouldn't?

best of all

mario

What is not a dream????

Dearest Joseph -

I too had the same problem - but actually it is more of an advantage in some ways if you think about it. You have more time to think and concentrate on becomming Lucid !

Just a thought. I think that not being able to fall asleep quick enough can cause a lot of frustration while trying to become Lucid. For me, this doesn't help. Instead of getting mad - get Lucid ;-)

Hope this provides just a tinge of inspiration ! *shrugs

In porceline as usual, Daniel

Hi Mario:

I think basically it boiled down to recording as many significant dreamsigns as possible. I suppose the more, the better. Try to use dreamsigns that will be easy to use. I think there was a classic case of this in Steven's Book in Chapter 1 or 2 > Where are person had seen in his dream that the stones on a floor he knew were positioned in the wrong way - this he noticed and became Lucid !

To me, this points out that even the smallest of detail can be used as a tool.

The more tools (Dreamsigns) you have, the better. I say, record and use them all - Hallelujah ;-)

Jingle all the way, Daniel

Stephen....thanks a lot for the advice!

One thing was not clear. You suggest it not worthwhile trying MILD if cannot remember dream and you reject my idea about using favourite dreamsigns. What is it so important about the remembered dream just had if in general you do not go back into it? Is this just an empirical observation about when MILD works best or is there a theoretical reason?

In prospective memory tests in your book why have hitting the target only once rather than repeatedly during the day for further practice? Is it to allow beneficial effects of recovery from the training during the remainder of the day?

Regards

Owen

Joseph, I had the problem of not being able to fall asleep doing MILD. Keelin suggested doing it earlier in the night so there is more of the night left to fall asleep in. Then if you do MILD several nights running and cannot sleep IMO you will be extremely tired and have no trouble sleeping!

Owen

Owen, after how many hours would you suggest I wake up to do MILD(for 30 minutes of course) in order that I can be assured to fall asleep quickly? I sleep an average of 6-7 hours a night(if I am lucky, the past few days I have had problems sleeping so have gotten less).

Joseph

Hi, Joseph! I just see your question remained without anwer. "after how many hours would you suggest I wake up to do MILD(for 30 minutes of course) in order that I can be assured to fall asleep quickly?" I think, it would be better for you to wake up earlier, near the end of 2nd sleep cycle, that is a few minutes less than 3 hours after sleep onset.

As a result of my last days experiences, I tried the MILD technique today. I set my alarm clock to 4,5 hours after bedtime and did really wake up at 0600, remembered no dream. But while trying to remember and telling myself to remember, that I'm dreaming, I dreamed this one :

In a dusky room. I'm looking at the back of a man's head, he is sitting in chair with high back. I fear, he is someone, I think to be dead, someone who can't live, because I shot him down, using 13 bullets. Now he turns around and he is it. I'm shocked, but in the same moment everything turns funny, like it is just a game. Now I see he is being given money by other gangsters, and he gives a receipt to them. I'm amused. That is absurd. I hurry towards the scene, yelling: "Let me see that receipt! ", because I can't believe it. But before I arrive there is a shift in the scene and my awareness is torn into the new plot. We are in a large lavatory. I hear him yelling something, then he is laughing. Every sound is distorted by the echoing bare walls, but his laughter sounds extremely mad and nagging on top of that. I'm frightened and awake. Outside I hear a blackbird nagging in the same staccato rhythm, in that the gangster laughed. Ach so!

Now I have a dream to do MILD with. I recall the dream and imagine myself becoming lucid in the presence of dreamsigns (the believed - dead gangster, the absurd receipt) and then rubbing my hands to stabilise the scene. But I'm disturbed again and again. I have to get up and close the window, then put in the earplugs, because the birds are still too noisy. I wear the ND mask anyway. I'm disturbed by another (now too bright) cue. Press the delay button. Now I can't get rest, get up, visit the waking life lavatory, get in bed again. It is 0800 already. I try the MILD again, but dreams are very unstable now:

I'm looking into my aquarium. There is this female wagtail (no, not the bird. In German, it is called Schwertträger, or Xiphophorus (helleri)). I now, this fish is dead, she died a week ago. This means I must be dreaming. Whoosh. I awake.

OK. This is my first morning MILD attempt since a long, long time. Nice success, with DSA2 and DSA3. But next time I shouldn't set the frame to "it is just a game", when I'm frightened, but test my state and get lucid. And what to do about the prompt awakening, like in the second dream? I don't know. I know the stabilising techniques, but until now, I had either no time to use them, because I suddenly awoke, or I didn't need to use them, because the dream has been stable enough "by itself". Maybe I'm too exited in that moment, when it comes to mind, I'm dreaming. I have a look in my "Course in Lucid Dreaming". There it is: I am to stay cool. Maybe take a deep breath, next time I encounter a dreamsign (that is my idea). And then engage in the dream scene. Observe the surrounding, look, listen, feel. Run, fly, dance. And I should do, what I suggested Joseph: Wake up earlier to easier re - enter sleep. The other thing is, that reality - checking very rarely enters my dreamstate directly. I seem simply to know, I'm dreaming. But there is a correlation between frequency of RC/RI and LD in my statistics. So I can say, testing pays off, even if don't perform it in my dreams. I'm prepared to doubt my waking state. Seems, that in dreams its sometimes enough, to have this initial feeling of oddity, leading to lucidity. But only sometimes... I want to dream lucid at will, that's why sometimes has to turn to most of times (or even every time)

Has anyone advice on the question of the missing RCs in dreams?

Yours Ralf

Joseph and Ralf'..I've been on holiday, which is why I've not posted recently

In my experience and opinion (for what it's worth) MILD is not an easy technique to LEARN to carry out properly in the way that Stephen LaBerge describes'..never forgetting that I'll find it dead easy once I've mastered it. I have not tried it much during my first year of Lding, relying instead, when I wake up at night, on gentle intention to have a LD. I am entering my second year of LDing and my goal this year is to try to learn to MILD properly.

My problem with MILD has been that if I wake myself up completely, I find that doing the MILD keeps me awake. Then when I stop doing it new thoughts intrude rather than me falling asleep. On the other hand if I am not completely aroused I tend to fall asleep in the middle of the MILD exercise. Initially I found that if there was any success it was that I dreamt about doing MILD Itself.

This month I experimenting with breaking things down into elements that can be carried out independently or linked together,

1. When wake up recall dream and identify think about dreamsigns.
2. Imagine being back in the dream, note the dreamsign, generate the sensation of "How odd, Oh YES this is a dream"
3. While noting the dreamsign, think "Yes I'll REMEMBER to recognise that this is odd and I'm dreaming.'
4. Simply focus hard on sensation of REMEMBERING that on seeing something odd that this means I'm dreaming.
5. Imagine being lucid and carrying out lucid dreams tasks

Hmmm''..appreciating the distinction between 2 and 3 is not easy when one is sleepy

Stephen gave us some useful hints on MILD recently, which I found extremely encouraging, but there is one thing he said that completely escapes me. He said in response to questions that it is probably not worth while carrying out MILD if you have not recalled a dream in the preceding sleep period. He said it is not worthwhile to use a favourite dreamsign from say another day.

My puzzle is, what is so special about the dreamsign in the immediately previous dream, if as Stephen says one would normally become lucid in response to a completely different dreamsign from the one just dreamed. If I've just dreamt about my dead Father, why cannot I instead substitute in the MILD a dream about my dead Grandmother I had last week, if I am to become lucid on, for example, seeing that I am wearing pink and blue striped shoes. I just don't get this at all.

Owen

Hi, Owen

I already wondered, where you were. So, here we go again...

"This month I experimenting with breaking things down into elements that can be carried out independently or linked together," And what were the effects? I think it is worth while performing any of the experiments, because that strengthens your intention to get lucid. But a complete MILD feels more effective.

"My puzzle is, what is so special about the dreamsign in the immediately previous dream," I think, the sign is fresher, more lively, more able to induce or strengthen the (previous) REM - mood again.

Get lucid!

Ralf,

That is right there must then BE a difference between the dream just had and the dream of last week. Just to elaborate what you said about REM.

The dream I had last week of my dead Grandmother is stored in my long-term memory. Perhaps the neurons and connections involved in this are some way removed from the REM/dreaming system. However perhaps the dream just had is stored in a different way, in shorter-term memory that might be closer to the REM/dreaming system. Thus carrying out MILD with the more recent dream might activate something close to the forthcoming dreamsign.

Owen

What is special about MILD......

What is the difference between Stephen LaBerge's version of the INTENTION technque described on page 69 of ETWOLD and Stephen's MILD technique described on pages 78-79 of ETWOLD.

Both involve setting the intention to recognise the dream state, focus on the identification of dreamsigns and involve visualisation of this and an intended dream action.

There is the emphasis on improving prospective memory in MILD. Also there is the curious REQUIREMENT in MILD of using a dream in the immediately preceeding sleep period, something which to my mind has not been justified fully in anything I have read.

I don't see that many people on this forum who claim to be able to have lucid dreams at will yet evidently many have been practicing MILD for some time. It must be that most of us (me included) are not doing it properly.

Owen

MILD - I would be interested if anyone can comment on my preceeding post on this thread regarding the differences between MILD and Intention technique.....and again why does Stephen think it so important to use the preceeding dream in MILD.....but this is not stressed in his Intention technique?

Owen

Owen,

When I find my copy of ETWOLD (temporarily misplaced,) I will read the sections you mention and comment. I am not sure what Stephen says about the Intention technique, other than focussing one's intent.

I do suspect that we can do all the techniques in the world perfectly, and yet still something else has to happen. That something else is a development that comes as we sojourn along--a development that is aided, I think, by relaxation, meditation, etc.

I will comment further on your Aug 2nd post when I look at ETWOLD again.

Hi Owen!

Your detailed report (under "Post Your Lucid Dreams - Miscellaneous) is proof to us all that you are anything but "lazy"! Thank you for sharing your encouraging and impressive account.

Regarding your question about the MILD technique: I believe the reason Stephen places importance on using the dream just prior to awakening is that it should be the easiest and most vividly recallable experience of dreaming that you can access. After all, you've just been there, in that mental model. At that point, you have the freshest understanding of what it means to be dreaming. And this is what you want to take with you as you return to sleep.

The reflection-intention technique is designed to help you deveolp the general habit of state testing and for the improvement of prospective memory skills.

May you surpass your WILDest goals in the coming year! Keelin

PS: The NEW Nap Experiment is much simplified! The folks at Lucidity Institute encourage everyone to participate, so please check it out under the topic heading: Research Theory and LI Experiments or go directly to: http://www.lucidity.com/DreamYoga.html

Dear Keelin,

Thanks for your comments. Because of some recent experiences I have had, as well as going over past events in my journal, I now have the suspicion that there might be a correlation between the likelihood of me having an LD and the amount of effort I put into trying to recall every possible detail of my preceeding dream, irrespective of whether I am trying MILD.

Best wishes,

Owen

Dear Keelin, I have a MILD Question based on your post explaining MILD: On the rare days that I have a LD, is it advised to not pick the LD as the dream to relive? I've been picking the LD and imagining it continuing (most of mine are 10 sec. or less).

Hi Ted,

As mentioned previously, the reason it's suggested that you use the last dream you can recall when doing the MILD technique is that it will provide the freshest memory of what it's like to be dreaming. If your last dream was a lucid one, that would be all the better as you would have the clearest understanding of exactly what it means to realize you are dreaming. In fact, if you're able to hold on to the experience vividly enough, it's quite possible to slip into a WILD (Wake Initiated Lucid Dream), sometimes returning to a scene from the previous dream, or continuing where it left off. This is more likely to occur in the later hours of the sleep cycle.

By all means, do imagine the dream continuing lucidly and carrying out your intended goal. While you're at it, it's also a good idea to include a dream prolonging technique (like hand-rubbing or spinning) as part of the fantasy.

Merry MILDing! Keelin

Hi All !

I've bought a NovaDreamer several weeks ago, so I'm relatively new to the techiques of Dr. Stephen, though I had some of LD before. I was a little bit frustrated, because I didn't see any clues in a dream or even if I saw it, I just treat them as a natural events. I was impatient to achieve results, so I increased the number of flashes, their intensity and decreased rate to 2 flashes per second. First night they simply woke me up every time I had a REM period. I start decreasing intensity along with the number of flashes. Finally my brain was able to accomodate ND's lights without losing dream condition. But ! The flashes were still strong enought, so the poor brain was not able to select appropriate clue. I didn't see police car, lightnings, laser guns or explosions, I saw a complete disaster. The world itself disappears twice a second and I saw pure red light. It didn't take me a long time to understand that I'm dreaming. I had three LD already using these settings, so my advise is this: don't be afraid to increase intensity, number of flashes and use sound. Very probably that many of us are using too soft settings. Another problem I've noticed -- the brain get used to the extenal signals. We all get used to refrigerators in the kitchen and noisy cars outside, so probably one week sleeping without ND will be a good relaxation.

Hi, Dmitri

Welcome to the Forum!

Thanks for your encouraging message. I'm working with ND mask these days. I'll try your advice and increase cue duration (intensity is already at level 4). I had this kind of cue incorporation, too, whith all the world vanishing. I had a very nice incorporation a week ago. I showed my son a book concerning the developement of universe. I turned the page. On the new side was the (moving) picture of a galaxy in the moment of a SUPERNOVA explosion. It was wonderful (although I missed the cue). But this was infact a very wordly correct incorporation of a (SUPER)NOVA dreamer cue, wasn't it?

Cue be dobedo....

Ralf

Hello LDers, Very tragic events since I last posted. Apart from everything else, it brought to the front of my mind a sad perhaps rather spooky aspect of LDing that I had not really reflected on before. Very occasionally when I am awake and have cause to test my state I do sincerely believe that I might be dreaming. Now I have considered how I might feel if I were confronted with a very sudden and tragic event affecting myself or a loved one. Would I think I was dreaming and test my state. Would I lose my mind and desperately look again and again for writing that would mutate, so it could be a dream, so I could make it a dream. Seeing those poor people plunge from the burning building, I thought would I myself in that situation, as an LDer, try to fly to safety, never accepting that I was about to die. Or would I simply be wide-awake and everything crystal clear?

Owen

Dear Owen and Oneiroanuts,

Such horrific events as we have all witnessed recently give good reason to ask "What if...", to pause and consider what lucidity in such circumstances might have to offer.

Owen, your questions are profound. How can we ever know for certain what our future behavior will be when confronted with novel and distressing or demanding situations? I think the best we can do is to consider preferred responses, rehearse in our minds the shifting that allows us to open up to greater awareness, to our best possible selves. After all, isn't this what we do with our lucid nightmares? It seems to me that flexibility in decision making is one of the most worthwhile skills we can develop through becoming adept at lucid dreaming.

I can do more than hope that when I reach my own final moments in this reality, I will be able to pass over Death's threshold with the grace of a true oneironaut. I can practice in my lucid dreams.

Keelin

Keelin, thinking on your notions of rehearsal and greater awareness in relation to my previous message, I'm going to speculate really wildly.

There is a theory that arises out of quantum physics that suggests that the world actually follows a myriad of realities. When I toss a coin and it comes down heads I follow that world, yet there is another world in which the coin has come down tails with a parallel me (and you and everyone else). The number of such worlds would be beyond comprehension but my consciousness at present is following this one.

It occured to me that if I recieved terrible news about the death of a loved one - the news being true - then my consciousness could not pass seamlessly to an alternative reality in which my loved one was still alive. Such worlds would exist but my current consciousness could not get there without jumping back in time and I would be aware of the anomaly.

But suppose that it was possible to develop special LDing skills. It might be possible to jump backwards in time to a similar lucid dream in which essentially the same terrible events were taking place, then to wake up from the dream into a world where the terrible event was destined not to occur.

I stress lucid dream because it could be that the testing of state by a super aware and skilled lucid dreamer might in some way effect the jump.

No anomaly would be noted. The dreamer would, as usual first believe that he or she were awake. Then it would dawn that it was just a dream, rather a nightmare, from which the LDer might then rapidly awake.

Essentially what I am speculating about is whether it is possible to turn reality into a lucid dream. I have thought about this earlier, I'm sure others have too, but not from the viewpoint of avoiding bad events.

Perhaps I should accept bad events with grace, as you say, but this is not the point of my argument.

Owen

Hi Owen, Keelin

Very interesting speculation! Keelin, I agree that lucid dreaming is a good realm in which to practice dealing with the transition of death, in which hopefully we pass to another reality rather than into oblivion; either way I'd like to be as aware as possible as long as possible in whatever reality I find myself.

Owen, your idea of hopping to a more favorable parallel universe is a fascinating one which I have also been thinking about. Some belief systems seem to contain this possibility. I suspect that if it is possible a great deal of skill in dreaming would be required. It seems to me that it would probably be far easier to visit such a parallel world in a dream than to physically wake up into such a world.

If someone dies, it seems possible that their consciousness could pass into a parallel world in which things turned out differently, since one way or another they've left our consensus reality (CR) at that point.

A while ago I had a non-lucid dream in which I visited someone I loved who had died. It was great to see her and we had a wonderful time. When I woke, the dream seemed to me to be like a parallel world where things had turned out the way I feel they should have in this one. Was this merely wish-fulfillment or did I somehow really visit her? I think there is no way to say for sure, but it was a comforting experience either way. Obviously one could deliberately seek such an experience in a lucid dream.

In my opinion, dreams are fantastic "loopholes" in reality from at least a subjective viewpoint. They are non-consensus reality (NCR) events in which we can have experiences that are not "allowed" in CR. Because of their NCR status we cannot say for sure whether they "really" happened in another level of reality or whether they were entirely constructed by our brains. Obviously there are CR brain events that correlate with dream experiences, but do the brain events CREATE the dream experiences? In any case, as Robert Anton Wilson observed, "reality is what you can get away with," and in dreams we can get away with a LOT.

Hi adastra Owen and Keelin...

I do not post so frequently but you have touched a very special thing to me: this parallel "dream" reality stuff.

Haven't any of you ever read ou heard about some Seth/Jane Roberts books? He/she has a lot of really "new" ideas and standpoints about this "dream" realities and "parallel worlds.

This NCR I think is a very good model to our dream experiences.

I have A LOT OF dreams that cannot be simple "creations" fo the mind/brain. It's really hard to explain these "dreams" if you do not accept other kinds of "realities".

In time: Real is what causes a change! If a "dream" changes you, anyway, anytime, it sure IS real.

Our strugles with "subjective/objective realities" can, perhaps, be solved by an ancient Sufi saying: "Imagination is perception."

So, the question is: how can we perceive/live the reality we want to?

I think the "so-called-dreams", for lack of better CR word, can really be a gateway.

Let's learn.

mario