Summerlander wrote: You certainly had some effect on me, Hagart. Either you are a master or you fluked it. :)

I'm prepared to meet nesgirl halfway if she returns. But I just wish she stopped making assumptions about me and other members here. I have nothing against asexuals or any other orientation. I always respect animals and I don't want them to suffer as my theory of mind also includes them as conscious, sentient beings (albeit to a different degree as evidence suggests). :geek:

I know there will be things that me and her will disagree on but she doesn't need to take it personally. We should all just chill and simply acknowledge that we've all had different experiences in life. 8-) OK, you are freaking me out right now.

No, Summerlander, it's no fluke. I thought I was very apparent when I spoke in the personality thread that I'm a classic INFP. Not only that, I'm an ambivert. I can picture everyone's perspective, and fit into anyone's shoes and try them on for a while, (or at least try).

Why do I feel a need to help someone I can't even see? Richard Dawkins asks that same question.

Maybe I'm insane!

I get no immediate benefit, no physical reward with extra food for a chimp, or money for a 'domesticated human', but it does something in my mind. It's a reward all it's own, and makes me feel good. I do it because it feels 'right'. (Or maybe it's just dopamine controlling this robot mind with Scooby Snacks)

No doubt it's just hogwash, a byproduct of evolution, but some of us Homo Sapiens have this thing we call, "Feelings".

I'm just ripping on you again. You're alright, my friend! :D

HAGART wrote: Maybe I'm insane! It's the opinion of the entire staff that Hagart is criminally insane-sane-sane..

That's an old joke from another page ago, and quite an inside one too. But hey, this is angry cat's thread, who appears to be in jail, and has the scariest mugshot, so who are we to argue with that that face?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=493jG4FkAoI

Ha!! This looks very weird. My avatar.. the song.. :D

I spoke with nesgirl.

The reason my she deleted as many posts as she could was because she feared Summerlander and DeschainXIX would use them as evidence to warn new users about her, and then find her on the internet and warn all other potential forums about her.

You may think that sounds extreme... well, it is. She has Persecutory Paranoia. It's a real disorder you can look up. She felt bullied, and has created some persecutory delusions. I'm just an armchair psychiatrist and read a little bit on the internet which by no means makes me an expert. (And no, delusion doesn't mean you're crazy, it just means it's only from your point of view nesgirl, and exaggerate it.) Those two aren't going to do any of that, I'm sure. I've read quite a bit about it today, so it's all making sense to me, and others can if they choose to. It all started as PTSD from when you were bullied in middle school.

She couldn't delete everything, not what others quoted, and if you read the last post in this thread, knowing everything I know, it all clicks.

http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15618&p=47239

She's apologetic to Taniaaust1. She got off on the wrong foot. She never mentioned she was thanatophobic from the start, and more specifically a fear of being a ghost or the undead. So when Taniaaust1 suggested that her dream in which a person saw her in real life was an Out of Body Experience it scared her and she lashed out at you. But it's all water under the bridge now.

She has many phobias, including genophobia which led to a few debates with Summerlander, and mood swings, so it must be very hard to be part of a group and feel like you belong in this world.

We all came together and realized how we may have mistreated Lucidity Master once we understood they had some problems too: http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=15187 (You were very considerate in that one Summerlander. Perhaps it's only because he shared very similar views to you.)

I don't feel superior to anyone with mental disabilities. Phobias are irrational so it's hard for others to understand.
We all have some problems don't we? I can't really diagnose myself, but I'd say my ergophobia stems from performance anxiety, and perfectionism which leads to alcoholism and a lack of any romantic relationship my entire life. Now that I think about it, that sounds pretty bad actually. :shock:

I think I'm the delusional one who just laughs it all off in denial. More specifically, that delusional disorder many of us humans create in our minds called, 'hope'. ;) It's what keeps us going.

She didn't have to delete her posts as I wouldn't do what she fears; I'm usually busy working, spending time with family, reading or watching documentaries. Nesgirl has nothing to fear from me if she comes back but if forums deepen her paranoia, perhaps she should avoid them.

I remember what we first described as thanatophobia (I don't think that's how she referred to her condition) but perhaps it was more like uranophobia as she feared the possibility of an afterlife. Didn't she favour nonexistence at death? Anyway, I'm curious if she has tried lucid dreaming as a form of therapy. Perhaps to mitigate her paranoia. Has she? I'd love it if she posted here at least once just to clarify. It could be the first step to make a comeback. Or not.

Summerlander wrote: She didn't have to delete her posts as I wouldn't do what she fears; We all know that. Even after you tell her that she probably won't believe you. That's the delusional side of the disorder.

Summerlander wrote: I'm curious if she has tried lucid dreaming as a form of therapy. Perhaps to mitigate her paranoia. Yes, she reports that only in her lucid dreams can she ever feel at peace with everybody without fear of persecution. Unfortunately they don't last forever, but at least a part of her life is spent in peaceful solitude. She also uses them to act out her aggression on those she feels have wronged her. I don't know if that mitigates or intensifies the problem though.

This thread should be considered a sanctuary. A garden of olive branches if you will.... (Not the Olive Garden, Blechh! :mrgreen: )

In my perfect world, she'd write something here, face up to her 'bullies', and move on with life, with a little less burden weighing her down. But, I'm being delusional with my dream.

I will keep doing my thing. You don't mind, uh?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH-_9cwdLug

I like people that don't 'fit in'. I know I never did. I was always Wicked and Weird. I feel at home with those who feel like an outcast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wyyVh3uc5Y

We follow our own path, and I'll take my own road. I don't scold people at the side of the road, who I feel different and fell to the wayside from me, who seem to want to take me in a different direction. I'll continue forward and pick up hitchhikers and gather a group in my car and carry on.

This is both a funny and serious video.

That sums me up: Serious and funny. I won't change.

I might even be the puppet around here, but I don't want to be anymore.

P.S. When you see him sleeping in the back seat and a puppet is driving, how can't any of you realize it's a dream metaphor?...... Just Saying.

HAGART wrote: Nesgirl thinks you're trying to lure her back in, Summerlander, and she certainly doesn't believe in Enra Traz's future.

Say what you want here; She reads this. I can act as a go-between.

I'll light some candles, and we can all gather around a table. I'll channel her dead spirit that committed forum suicide and speak with her. I'll be her voice, allowing her to speak through me.

(I never know if she finds me funny or offensive. I really don't get her humour, but common... that was funny! ;) )

You claim to be a forum medium but I'm sceptic now. How do I know you are for real? There is no proof. You could be making it up. Why would YOU be in touch with nesgirl? :mrgreen:

ps. Nesgirl can do what she wants.

My last post was made at 4:14 a.m. (my time), and I was intoxicated. I thought it was a really good idea at the time... :?

But I woke up and watched the video, and it's actually a very good metaphor. She needs to move on and be herself and forget about others and leave them behind her. Forget about 'The Dog' next to you, Nesgirl. We all need confidence being ourselves and give a middle finger to everyone behind you. I also did it to share with Desert, because I know they like interesting music.

ANYWAY, (*puts on sarcasm helmet)

I know you don't believe me, Summerlander. I have a paranormal ability that can't be explained. Indeed, I can channel Nesgirl. What I do is wait until after midnight, light some candles, or if I don't have them turn on a light switch, and I go to my special device with many letters and numbers on it. No, not a Ouija Board. What do they call it.... oh yea, a "Lap Top". I then press a few buttons, and let my intuition guide me.

I go in a trance and see many things... mostly letters. I Then allow my inner spirit guide to form them into, not only words, but also sentences, which, believe it or not, form paragraphs that I interpret and find meaning in.

Then I come back to this village, like a messenger who descended a ridiculous number of steps from a shrine after speaking with the oracle, and tell my tales to you people.

*If anyone wants to know what a 'sarcasm helmet' looks like. It's a hockey mask like Jason with a propeller on top.

I should address the elephant in the room.

Summerlander and DeschainXIX have turned this pleasant forum where everyone should be free to talk about dreams and went militant atheist on everybody and are scaring a lot of people off. I don't disagree with your views, but you need to be more tactful. You really are the bullies of this forum.

I've seen it before. I've been here a long time, and it's getting worse. I don't know how Buildit puts up with you and DeschainXIX. It's like you set traps Summerlander and get giddy when someone falls in your web (a religion thread). "Looks like the spider caught himself a fly.... bring out the gimp!" And then DeschainXIX follows you around like a pit bull and chews apart people's beliefs, tearing them new ones, even if they didn't want one. Even if it's over simple semantics, you guys belittle others, and seem like bullies to many users. I know I speak the truth and many people can back me up.

The internet is vast and you both can troll a You Tube comment page and get your kicks there.

There is nothing more divisive than politics and religion and I don't want to see it anymore. Not here. Take it elsewhere.

I'm not a moderator, but I should be.

I believe in free speech and I'm just telling it how I see it. You're both free to defend yourselves.

EDIT: I cleaned up the language a little, but it's mostly the same.

When I got here I was very surprised that everyone (and I mean everyone) was so nice, polite and a thinker. It's the first forum I know that has so many beautiful members! I was delighted.. That's the main reason that I couldn't accept that there would be people being disrespectful and that's why I felt so disappointed.

In You Tube, you expect it so you it's different and it's full of people who discuss (very impolitely) religion, science and a lot more things. Trolls should remain there. At least we will know where to go and post if we want to have fun.

CyberBulling is a real threat and many don't take it seriously. People actually decide to commit suicide because of it. It's not a game.

Some people should type more carefully.

I was pretty harsh again. I do that to make a strong point.

Some of us have a harder shell and let things roll off our backs. That's why I never had a problem before. But now that I'm thinking about it, it's getting out of hand, and I know a few people, even before nesgirl, who left because they had enough of it all. (Lucid in the Sky for one.)

Even Rebecca, herself PM'd me back in Aug. 13, 2013: "you seem perfect for breaking up the heated arguments that Summerlander frequently inspires. (He is such a strong contributor, just a shame he comes off a bit arrogant to some and we go off track...."

So I know I'm not the only one.

I checked my own posts and I haven't written anything helpful about dreams at all in over a month. I've gone off track too. It's about time we all remembered what this place is for again, and get back to our roots.

This is a lucid dreaming forum. Don't forget that.

What a sneering, unabashed liar you are, Hagart. I don't know what weird Freudian thing you've got for nesgirl, but I don't care. I've never said anything as petty and insulting as the things you've said (you're like an idiotic schoolyard bully, turning this forum into a high school where you can play daddy and preach from your ivory tower), and nowhere have I attacked anyone for simply lucid dreaming. If you're going to be low enough to cash in on the mindless, vengeful mob mentality and to accuse someone of cyber bullying, you better build a solid fucking case instead of making drunken generalizations and complaining about how buildit doesn't win any debates.

By the way, I've never met anyone so conceited that they say that they should be moderator so they can ban two people simply for winning debates. It's pathetic, and it's reactionary, and it's egotistical. Especially if all that person did was gossip, post YouTube videos, and show off their ability to tell jokes...

I'm also ashamed that I've let you draw me in with your infantile jeers, but ell well, it's done now.

Oh, great. This thread will be closed now. :(

Why can't we be a little more polite and don't hate all the time? We can do better than this. And it's not for the others, but only for us. I was expecting a little more maturity here.

I deserve that DeschainXIX. I started it and what I dish out, I should accept in return. I was very insulting wasn't I? It doesn't feel good to be at the receiving end for a change now does it?

I was out of line, and edited my post a little. It's still mostly the same though. Let's just call it a draw. 1-1. We both got some things off our chest.

I will take some time today and find some instances where you came across as arrogant and belittled others, not to further this argument, but because you're right. I should find evidence to support my accusation.

I know of one right now: http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=15420&p=47061

DeschainXIX wrote: Oh ... and just so you stop making yourself look so unlettered and illiterate: The phrase is "piece of work," not "piece of art." (That was to R99. English isn't their first language, and admitted that.)

DeschainXIX wrote: Oh. Are you leaving? Good riddance. You bring nothing new, interesting, or exciting to the table. You’re antiquated news, and poor news at that.

I don't want to be moderator to ban you. In fact, I don't think I should be after my earlier post. I just feel we should get back to discussing lucid dreaming again which is the main purpose of this forum.

I will always speak my mind. It is not my intention to make people uncomfortable. If people don't like what I say, tough. It's their problem, not mine. And we give as good as we get, and sometimes, yes, I say this unabashedly, better!

Let's not get sidetracked here from the fact that nesgirl was no saint. Let's not forget either that name-calling and traducement was very one-sided. She clashed with many people here and she left -- perhaps the best decision she ever made.

Here’s a classic example of my analogy. You two weren’t actually that bad, and perhaps I exaggerated a little. OK, a lot. I like hyperbole. I apologize and should have worded it better. But this does seem like a religious debate trap to me that Desert Explorer saw coming:

http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=16047&start=100 (Are You Religious?)

The user, Pika?, unwittingly fell in to that ‘trap’. Desert Explorer said what I was thinking and anyone else who’s been here for a while.

Desert Exploer wrote: Pika, nice to meet you.

Hold tight..

Pika? wrote: what did u mean by ''hold tight''?

Btw nice to meet you too!!!!

Desert Explorer wrote: You will find out, don't be impatient. Just make sure that you spend enough time here.

Desert Explorer wrote: Here it comes..

Pika? wrote: Ok, I smell a religious argument coming.....

To be honest, I am ill equipped with knowledge for a religious debate. I know the bad image of Islam in the modern times. But I do believe in the fundamentals of Islam which is to believe in Allah, strive to be a better person and help others. Basically, the Islamic lifestyle is peaceful and virtuous, thats why I consider myself lucky to be a Muslim and try to be a better one every way possible.

I know very well you guys dont agree with me. Im only 18, i hardly have enough knowledge to argue, my big exam starts from april and I am seeing myself being doomed. So im not really in a position to defend.

Pika? wrote: Ok i didn't say that my religion is indefensible, its just that I cant defend it. I try to acquire knowledge as much as possible, be it religion, science or other things. Its true that I don't have enough knowledge to defend, but I do have enough knowledge to practice, apply the religion in my life.

I just learnt that most of the people here are atheists therefore pro at bashing religions, so I'm just gonna walk away......I have neither the intention nor the capability to argue with you guys. So lets just drop it, eh? Its a lucid dreaming site after all, we have the same goals, we shouldn't create differences among us just because we hold different religious views, should we???

Btw if you really want to flex your arguing muscles, then email Zakir Naik or William Campbell or whatever..........unlike me they do have the experience!

It wasn’t that bad actually, but it goes to show how some people get scared off from this site when it seems like Summerlander and DeschainXIX start to gang up and attack beliefs all the time.

All the time? The topic was religion.

If anything, I was no worse than R99, at most I was a over-reactionary. That post where I corrected them was intentional--R99 called me a "piece of art"; I think it's entirely fair that I make fun of their inability to look up what the actual expression is before typing it out of blind anger. I hate to say this, but if you insist on playing daddy, I must: He started name-calling first. He called me a piece of work, I called him illiterate--yeah, Hagart, looks like I'm luring people into my spider's web so I can "rape" them again. You know that I wasn't "raping" or indulgently attacking R99 as my personal victim in that thread (especially not discouraging him from talking about lucid dreaming in other subforums), you know that we both were very derisive and engaged in an intense debate, so step down from your high horse and stop preaching, saying I personally am poisoning your forum.

And, by the way, at one point you said that you were on my side and that buildit was in the wrong. And, since of course you are the patriarchal arbiter of morality and right and wrong here at WoLD, I at that time thought I was in the right. We debated, I won, he was resentful. Nothing has happened in that intervening time. But now, you're saying I'm in the wrong and you've adopted this mercurial resentment and hatred. The holy word of Hagart has been spoken--I now am in the wrong!

What I can agree on is that things go Off-Topic far too often here. It's only because there are literally a handful of people who even care about this forum, so no one really minds if we keep things informal; when it's so difficult to get a conversation going in the first place... This is our special place and we don't care much for rules; that was my perception at least.

It is a sinister, politician's lie, I assert, that Summerlander or myself are the reason there are so few people here.

Hagart, you posted on that thread just a few hours after I did for the first time. Looks like you're one of Summerlander's fucking "gimps" too. That thread is remarkably civil, as is our exchange with Pika?. What's so objectable? We weren't off-topic either...

Oh, damn. If I go, the only reason will be that I can't stand to be more of an off-topic guy. I have given up in LD almost completely. If these random ones wouldn't happen, I could feel very embarrassed that I'm still here.

I think we were very civil with Pika. If anything, she is probably reading a ton of books before she returns to this wonderful and enlightened forum. 8-)

By the way, guys, what is 'gimp'? :mrgreen:

Right, I promise I'll post more oneironautical stuff over the summer, when I can get proper sleep (I get up at 5AM every day and usually can't go to bed until 11PM). Usually during school periods I literally can't lucid dream at all.

Watch Pulp Fiction, Summerlander. Great film.

There are so many better things to do than sitting on your ass all day and reading books. Always friendly, DesertExplorer.

Hmm, I should make this my signature. :)

Deschain, nothing can compete with the beauty of your dog. I tried to, but I failed. My little bastard is not as beautiful as your bitch is.

You post at your own pace and post what you like, Deschain. You are not here to please everyone. I will watch Pulp Fiction properly at some point. (I think I watched part of it stoned ;-) )

By the way, Desert, 'Better things to do... than reading books' is subjective. And, speaking for myself, I do do other things. Reading is a hobby -- and a useful one, too. :-)

I know. From the moment someone says the word "better", becomes subjective.

I noticed we're talking Quentin Tarantino here!

Reservoir Dogs is a masterpiece!! If you haven't watched this either, then make sure you do, Summer.

I've got it on DVD. Cool movie! 'You gonna bark all day, little doggie, or are you gonna bite?' 8-)

Mr. Blonde is awesome. :D

"Alone at last.." :D

How many dogs do you have?

I wouldn't mind a life where I could just sit around reading (and writing) all day. Provided I could go for long walks at my leisure. I rarely trust an idea unless it comes to me when I'm out in the fresh air, walking or hiking someplace interesting, where the mind isn't prone to forget about the world.

I only have one dog. The sheltie in my old picture died a while back, and I recently adopted a new puppy. I haven't been conscious of my avatar in a long time, and you reminded me that it might be appropriate to replace it. :D

I always think better when I walk. And whatever doubt comes to my mind, I welcome it more easily.

deschainXIX wrote: Right, I promise I'll post more oneironautical stuff over the summer, when I can get proper sleep (I get up at 5AM every day and usually can't go to bed until 11PM). Usually during school periods I literally can't lucid dream at all.

Watch Pulp Fiction, Summerlander. Great film.

Did you manage to watch the film, Summer? I want to make a spoiler.

No. But I will. ;-)

OK, nice!! I am looking forward to hear your opinion and we all share some spicy scenes.

I took a month off to sober up. Sometimes we need a punch in the face to wake up. I come back stronger.

And smarter. :? Maybe...

Or I just learned to Shut The Fuck Up!

Upon reflection, I've realized that I grudgingly miss having nesgirl around. Hope she comes back.