Quote from: Ame on April 29, 2008, 04:36:52 PMI often don't even think to write them down as they seem to be nothing more than a reflection of my waking life I'm very much guilty of that too (and I need to work on changing it). But, with all due respect, I think it's actually a mistake. If we regard some dreams as "unimportant", I think it affects the meaning of other dreams to the point where it makes good-dream recall more difficult. At least I think it's that way for me. It may not be the same for everyone.

Quote from: Ame on April 29, 2008, 04:36:52 PM If I'm angry or sad or lonely, I can usually fall to sleep without a problem, preferring an unconscious state to a conscious. I've noticed that as well.  When in a really bad mood, as soon as I lie down, it's like an emptiness envelops me, and sleep is almost immediate.  Probably just because I burnt myself out.

Quote from: Ame on April 29, 2008, 04:36:52 PM I've been noticing real-life events or preoccupations intruding upon my dreams, so that when I wake up, I often don't even think to write them down as they seem to be nothing more than a reflection of my waking life.

On the other hand, more emotional or personal issues can cause very interesting dreams. Have you seen this thread? Sorry for the shameless promoting, but I think it covers what you're talking about.  http://www.mortalmist.com/forum/index.php/topic,268.0.html

I have found when I get to sleep in I have better recall and longer dreams that I remember.  Sleeping in is one of my most refreshing things but doesn't make sense real life wise as you miss out on so much of the morning.  I must say I miss the college days when my schedule was much more open than the responsible adult thing.  I have not found a correlation with energy and recall with me at least, not with exercise either, not with diet either, not with location either, not with bed time either, not naps vs. real sleeps.  Just amount of sleep and personal issues, when I am thinking about things a lot in rea life you can bet they will be in dream world often.  If I am really tired and don't get to sleep long, I usually won't be as active as night dream wise.  8-9 hours per night is my ideal sleep that I like to function.  Stress is subjective for my dreams; sometimes it is not good, sometimes it makes for interesting times in my dream world.

Agree with the sleeping-in.  I've always assumed this is because sleep is light and we're often hanging on not wanting to wake up.  When we do the dream is still there.

OTOH I've not really been able to sleep in lately (too much on my mind) and my dreams have suffered.

Quote from: Burned up on April 30, 2008, 09:52:42 AMAgree with the sleeping-in.  I've always assumed this is because sleep is light and we're often hanging on not wanting to wake up.  When we do the dream is still there. That and the fact that our longer REM periods are later in the sleep cycle. They are probably both about equally responsible for easier LDing.

QuoteOTOH I've not really been able to sleep in lately (too much on my mind) and my dreams have suffered. Ditto. I've got so much going on - inside and out - that it's a tough time for chasing my dream aspirations.

I've been practicing raising my energy when I go to bed at night just by concentrating on each part of my body until I can feel the energy flowing through it, a technique a learned from the book Mastering Astral Projection, which I think has done wonders for my dream recall as I have been waking up almost every 2 hours or less all during the night remembering my dreams.

It is either the energy that I am circulating through my body, or else the 9hz pulses that I am having start in after 90 minutes, or possibly a combination of them both, but something has just skyrocketed my dream recall this week.

For the general idea, what's said about animus tends often to apply to anima also.  My only reservation about anima/animus constructs is that it seems to only apply to heterosexual adults.  What about gay or trans?  Does a gay man have an animus?  I think there's a lot of research still needing to be done to complete Jung's theories.  So my recommendation would be to hold these loosely rather than thinking of them as a recipe for the perfect life.

From http://www.creative-personal-growth.com/aminusandanima.html

Men likewise have a femine archytype called the anima which works in a similar vein to the animus.  Not surprisingly "super macho" men who are rigerously denying their anima tend to be attracted to unusually feminine women.  They can each act out for the other the unconscious functions. This of course always has problems as the partner will fail on many occassions to be the perfect anima or animus and a far more fulfilling feeling will come from integrating your own and becoming a more whole person. Our dreams are an excellent way to begin to do this.

From http://www.mythsdreamssymbols.com/animaanimus2.html

Anima Projection: The unindividuated man identifies with those personal qualities that are symbolically masculine; he develops these potentialities and to some extent integrates their unconcious influences into his conscious personality. However, he does not recognize qualities that are symbolically feminine as part of his own personality but rather projects them onto women. He will project his anima&#8212those particular characteristics and potentialities that are significant components of his personal unconscious and therefore carry a special emotional charge&#8212onto a few women for whom he will then feel a strong and compelling emotion (usually positive but occasionally negative). Infatuation (an instant, powerful attraction for a woman about whom he knows little) is one of the signs of anima projection, as is a compulsive possessiveness.

Anima Possession: Since the unindividuated man has not consciously developed any of his symbolically feminine qualities (e.g. emotion, need for relatedness), his personality is apt to be taken over or "possessed" by these qualities at times, so that his emotional behavior and relationships may be acted out in childish and immature ways that are apparent to others but not to him.

Anima/Animus Integration: We can avoid anima/animus possession and withdraw projections by integrating the contrasexual archetype into consciousness, realizing we are cutting off our human potential by recognizing and developing only those symbolic qualities that match the sex of our bodies. In the words of Demaris Wehr, the anima leads a man "into unexplored depths of feeling, relationship, and sensitivity. . . . the integrated animus leads a woman into the world of the spirit, erudition, and the power of the word" (66-67). Integration of the Anima/Animus is often termed Androgyny. It is symbolized in narratives through achievement of a special bond (frequently sexual union/marriage) between the ego-bearer and the anima/animus figure.

And although drifting further away from dreams, I find this article rather sobering for any man feeling obsessively in love with another woman for no explicable reason:

http://www.saskworld.com/bodymindspirit/edition9/11_article_mosely.htm

(I'd attach my saved version of it if I knew how)

Huh - not sure we have that capability here, at least not turned on.  Let me look into it.  If so, it would involved uploading and attaching.

Ok - in the main post screen, (not the quick reply,) there should be a link that says "Additional Options...".  Click on that and see whether there is an Attach uploader there for you.

I'm going to try attaching something here just for kicks and grins...

Thanks pj - I figured it ought to be do-able.

OK - here's the article I mentioned in my last post. (attached!)

Wicked chord sequence, btw.

Quote from: Burned up on May 10, 2008, 12:51:47 PMWicked chord sequence, btw.

Well thank you!  I'm rather fond of it.

I must say that I've become quite interested in this anima/animus concept lately. I'm suspecting I'm probably "emotionaly underdeveloped" or whatever and that dream I had a week ago did follow on a slight emotional breakdown, so I'll definatly be spending more time considering this.

Quote from: Emerald Wolf on May 10, 2008, 02:36:48 PMI must say that I've become quite interested in this anima/animus concept lately. I'm suspecting I'm probably "emotionaly underdeveloped" or whatever and that dream I had a week ago did follow on a slight emotional breakdown, so I'll definatly be spending more time considering this.

It certainly fits how I think about myself and my own struggles with accepting an emotional side to life, which are very much ongoing.  I like practical theories which involve dreams too.

indeed this is very interesting, I thought the article you attached was very interesting mate.

Kind of makes you look back on all the women you have liked and makes you ask yourself why

Thanks for the post mate

I read Freud and Jung many years ago and over the subsequent years it began to appear that they are great story-tellers. To split the personality into parts and then provide each with a name and purpose is intellectual gobledegook and meaningless to the guy or dame in the street. Let's say I fancy a woman because my libido is high, does this imply that I have a female side to my nature or that I am just a randy male? Then I see a female with legs right up to her bum and immediately I am attracted to her, could this be the randy male in me or an inner-sexy lesbian? If I become animated by this pseudo-intellectualising is it my animus or my anima or my anus that is being stimulated? If psychologists seek to jargonise their work it could be simply to justify to themselves that they are worthy of their salary and won't blush when the money goes into their bank accounts. I could continue but discretion forbids.

Quote from: Jennings on May 18, 2008, 05:18:15 PMI read Freud and Jung many years ago and over the subsequent years it began to appear that they are great story-tellers. To split the personality into parts and then provide each with a name and purpose is intellectual gobledegook and meaningless to the guy or dame in the street. Let's say I fancy a woman because my libido is high, does this imply that I have a female side to my nature or that I am just a randy male? Then I see a female with legs right up to her bum and immediately I am attracted to her, could this be the randy male in me or an inner-sexy lesbian? If I become animated by this pseudo-intellectualising is it my animus or my anima or my anus that is being stimulated? If psychologists seek to jargonise their work it could be simply to justify to themselves that they are worthy of their salary and won't blush when the money goes into their bank accounts. I could continue but discretion forbids.

It's a way of making sense of what's going on.  Yes, both Freud and Jung used scientific-type language because that was what was required for them to be taken seriously.

You presumably have your dream interpretation theories to arrive at what you post here.  How would you explain these?  Or are they just guesses?

My understanding of dream is based on recognising the meaning of allegorical language which, of course, is universal and of considerable antiquity; it is based, not on what is seen to be happening nor what is said to be happening but, rather, what is actually happening. Genuine tales from folklore are structured in this manner which today's society too often regard as children's stories. The tales of Christianity posses the same features and impart a profound secular message to which many are blinded by religious dogma and early life indoctrination. If, and when I guess, I make this known. If those scientists are trying to make sense of what's going on (guessing), as you described, then this proves my point about jargonising. To place a name on anything limits its comprehension. Whenever I see an attractive female I scrape the ground with my right foot and bark! It is of no consequence whether the genders share similar traits but, what is important, is that we are comfortable in our roles. I am masculine and look at the world through the eyes of a male; no doubts whatsoever about this so I am not interested in how scientist's squander their time at seeking to prove their worth but, I am interested in LDs and OBEEs and I do not want any scientist to tell me that this is because I scratch my bottom or pick my nose!

Jennings you have some fantasies about psychoanalytic theorists being rich.  To my knowledge neither Freud not Jung made millions and I haven not made a penny out of my own little corner of understanding.

When it comes down to it, none of the theories can be proven.  All, including yours, are attempts to put a language - jargon or otherwise - onto what they see.  I do not see your position as being any different to anyone else's.  Allegorical language recognition (care to describe how to do that?) is another theory.  As is structural analysis of folk stories.  All have their supporters and antagonists.  I certainly can't go along with your claim that "the meaning of allegorical language which, of course, is universal ".  You cannot prove it.  You can only use it.

I don't disagree that folklore is a good place to start - Bettelheim had an interest in this and indeed Jung's archetypes are rooted in western folklore and mythology.

Frankly I'm with Lewin on this - there's nothing so practical as a good theory.  Put differently, a theory is not "good" unless you can use it - which is what you are doing with your theories and others with theirs.

I don't think it's helpful to criticise theories and trivialise them as you do.  All have their place.

You are being provocative and I am not here to take issue with you. It is becoming apparent that you may suffer from intellectual myopia and feel threatened by those who hold different views to your own. I do not deal in theories. You eminently lack the capacity to understand folklore; there are no antagonists, only doubters like yourself which is caused through ignorance. I too can read English in sentences and have read Freud, Jung, Adler, Bethleheim, Pavlov, Maslow, Chomsky, Argyle, Milgram, Goffman, and Skinner to mention but a few. I have a broad understanding of human motivation, child development, and a comprehensive knowledge of group dynamics which is part only, of my avocational interests. I have spent years counselling others in addition to many other roles. I cannot recall having said that Freud nor Jung had made 'millions' yet it is intriguing that you seem knowledgeable of their financial positions. I made comment about the thread's topic to which I understand is the entitlement but I cannot recollect criticising you and I abhor your diktats so do please adhere to the subject rather than attacking member's views that differ from your own.

Whatever I may have been, when in harness, being an egalitarian, I did not carry it with me outside of the of the office.

If it is likely to be cathartic to you, then do please have the last word.

Quote from: Jennings on May 19, 2008, 04:20:43 PMYou are being provocative and I am not here to take issue with you. It is becoming apparent that you may suffer from intellectual myopia and feel threatened by those who hold different views to your own. I do not deal in theories. You eminently lack the capacity to understand folklore; there are no antagonists, only doubters like yourself which is caused through ignorance. I too can read English in sentences and have read Freud, Jung, Adler, Bethleheim, Pavlov, Maslow, Chomsky, Argyle, Milgram, Goffman, and Skinner to mention but a few. I have a broad understanding of human motivation, child development, and a comprehensive knowledge of group dynamics which is part only, of my avocational interests. I have spent years counselling others in addition to many other roles. I cannot recall having said that Freud nor Jung had made 'millions' yet it is intriguing that you seem knowledgeable of their financial positions. I made comment about the thread's topic to which I understand is the entitlement but I cannot recollect criticising you and I abhor your diktats so do please adhere to the subject rather than attacking member's views that differ from your own.

Whatever I may have been, when in harness, being an egalitarian, I did not carry it with me outside of the of the office.

If it is likely to be cathartic to you, then do please have the last word.

Cathartic indeed.  I'm more than happy to have a sensible discussion with you, and indeed hope that our future correspondence will develop like that.   So no, I hope this is not the last word, whatever you wish the thread to be called (nice try).

But I am not prepared to ignore your insults or have words leveled at my posts like "gobledegook" and "pseudo-intellectualising" not to mention your recent contributions like "intellectual myopia" and "lack the capacity to understand folklore".  If I was hasty in connecting your response to my post with criticism of it then, well, it happens.  But do take a look at my replies and you'll hopefully see I wasn't criticising you at all.  In fact I was showing in interest in your methods.  And there are no diktats (how am I in the position to make these?) - I was just responding in the same challenging style which you introduced into this thread which I started because people were showing an interest in the anima/animus construct.

But you seem to be saying that folklore analysis in the way you do it is "true".  Perhaps uniquely "true" in the context of making meaning.  Yet it is just one of many ways of making meaning, none of which including yours can be proven.  All are essentially theories no matter how much we would like to believe them to be true.

Do stop your fatuous nit-picking which serves only to expose deep-seated insecurities. If we can stay on the topic and if I can comment candidly without you taking issue then I just might find your attitude a tad more congenial; just might; so put down your broadsword mate and let's have a cuddle and a kiss or it will be 'smacked botties' for you!

Has my 'baptism of fire' now concluded?

Quote from: Jennings on May 19, 2008, 07:11:19 PMDo stop your fatuous nit-picking which serves only to expose deep-seated insecurities. If we can stay on the topic and if I can comment candidly without you taking issue then I just might find your attitude a tad more congenial; just might; so put down your broadsword mate and let's have a cuddle and a kiss or it will be 'smacked botties' for you!

Has my 'baptism of fire' now concluded?

As far as I'm concerned, yes.  But as I said, I won't ignore insults.

I look forward to reading your posts Jennings.

Just out of curiosity, what does your Dream Journal look like here is mine;

My DJ is a dream itself, so it doesnt have a physical body

...OK....lol

I use steno pads, which have the spiral at the top.  I've found that easier to deal with at night for some reason, flipping it up to the next page rather than to the side.  I find a spot where there are a few blank pages in a row, trying to use both sides.  I have like three of them going at any one time, as I carry them around and lose them in the house.  Sometimes that's annoying, because I have to search thru a bunch of cryptic writing for last night's cryptic writing, and if there's more than one of the notebooks there it's just that much harder.

The pen is more important than the paper.  You want something that is reliable, that writes from the first letter every time.  It shouldn't have a cap, cuz that's too much to deal with in the middle of the night.  It shouldn't be the kind that leak all over if they touch something (my sheets and pillowcase learned that the hard way.)  It shouldn't be too smeary either.

Wow MANIN207.. your journal is beautiful!!

Quote from: Moonbeam on December 27, 2008, 08:55:10 PMI use steno pads, which have the spiral at the top.  I've found that easier to deal with at night for some reason, flipping it up to the next page rather than to the side. LOL!  I use a small notebook with the spiral on the side.

Quote from: Moonbeam on December 27, 2008, 08:55:10 PM The pen is more important than the paper.  You want something that is reliable, that writes from the first letter every time.  It shouldn't have a cap, cuz that's too much to deal with in the middle of the night.  It shouldn't be the kind that leak all over if they touch something (my sheets and pillowcase learned that the hard way.)  It shouldn't be too smeary either. Totally agree on all points!

Quote from: Clairity on December 29, 2008, 02:09:44 PMWow MANIN207.. your journal is beautiful!!

Why thank you. I love my girlfriend so much, a lot of people I tell I have LD's kind of look at me like "OK sure you can", but she embraces me and the idea.

haha, I went the cheap route.  standard size binder paper notebook from staples.

I usually keep it open to the last entry, and I have a bunch of pens/pencils on my desk.  When one stops working, I grab the next and hope it writes well.

I had been using my computer, but I still use a small spiral notebook.  It's about 8 inches by five inches, red, and has a palm tree pattern around it.  Nothing too fancy, but not a simple spiral.

I'm picky about my pens.  I used to take my mom's pens when I was younger because they were really nice and I wanted them.  Then I started buying  my own pens and dread whenever someone asks me for one because I'm afraid they won't give it back...  I have a nice black gel pen which writes very reliably.  It "trails" a little bit when I don't lift it enough between words, but it works great.  I also have a ball-point pen with an LED light in the grip that I received from work (very nice pen) that writes well, but I only use it every now and then.

Oh yea, I used to have one of those pens with a light in it...I should another one of those, maybe I wouldn't struggle to read my writing so much in the AM.  It would definitely cut down on write-overs.

My total complete dream journal is on my computer, two copies, just in case I do something stupid to delete it.

My first DJ was a small red notebook, which had a sort of velvet cover. Then I started using my iPod to write the notes down. Then I stopped taking notes completely.

The pen I used for the notebook had a nice pinkish red ink. It was actually meant for a kids' body tattoo thing I got a long time ago. When it ran out, I felt sad.  That's when I switched to my iPod.

I should start taking notes again. Maybe when school starts.

Cheapo spiral-bound pad, A5 size.

PS, Moonbeam.  Use a pencil instead

Mine is a Microsoft Word document. I started it in 2003, and it is currently 90 pages long in 10 pt Verdana font.

I've never had a physical DJ.  Just the one here and the one I started on DV.

Quote from: Burned up on January 04, 2009, 05:08:47 PMPS, Moonbeam.  Use a pencil instead My 7th grade teacher was the one who hooked me on pens.  We actually weren't allowed to do our assignments in pencil, so I just became used to it and began to prefer pens over pencils.  I didn't realize just how much pencils smear until I opened up a notebook I'd been writing in for a few years (a story I'd been working on) and it was all smeared and shiny.

A matter of personal preference   I love my gel pens.  They may "trail" a bit, but I usually don't have to worry about them having some of the ink problems that inferior ball-point pens can have.

http://www.nicetoys.com/yasutomogelxtreme.html  I used these a lot to take notes in college.  They have a .5mm black pen which worked SO WELL, but the student store stopped selling them.  I was sad.  I need to buy more.

Nice journal!

Either in my mind in a Mead Composition notebook, or my hand.

Its a shame I don't have a digital camera handy, because I so wanted to show mine off. Anyway its a handcrafted wooden book with sturdy covers and a small bronze plate with a celtic-style pattern on the front, a soft black leather binding and an attached bookmark with a smooth purple-hued stone at the end. The pages are blank and A5 in size.

I use this type:

I usually get these mini journals, they're about $5--

On the back of the page there's a bunch of room to put own detail.

Wow! Thats awesome. Only thing I would change is the space for the dream itself... Make that bigger, and maybe shrink the other sections.

Well, on the back side of each page there's a whole page of space for more of just the dreams.

Then that makes even more awesome!

I'm jealous...

Wow some pretty cool RL DJs around I should get one LOL

Mine is currently my memory transcribed into my MM based DJ!

After much deliberation I chose a paperblanks 'Old leather foiled ultra' lined journal, quite reasonably priced on ebay and good quality.

My original one was a small black book but now I use JDarkroom on my MacBook. It's a distraction free writing program. It fills the screen with black and has light colored text(colors can be changed but the default is perfect). I like it because I can write in the dark without hurting my eyes. It's a really cool program. Plus, I can always read my typing but my handwriting can be bad. Especially after waking. But there is something nice about having the actual notebook.  I think I might write my dreams down from my computer to a notebook, just to have. That's a cool journal Manin. You need something next to it for scale. I can't tell how big or small it is.

Wow, Naiya. I might have to get one of those.

I just use a regular composition book, but on the back I made a collage of dream related pictures from various magazines.

Quote from: Gameover on October 21, 2009, 10:37:01 AMMy original one was a small black book but now I use JDarkroom on my MacBook. It's a distraction free writing program. It fills the screen with black and has light colored text(colors can be changed but the default is perfect). I like it because I can write in the dark without hurting my eyes. It's a really cool program. Plus, I can always read my typing but my handwriting can be bad. Especially after waking. But there is something nice about having the actual notebook.  I think I might write my dreams down from my computer to a notebook, just to have. That's a cool journal Manin. You need something next to it for scale. I can't tell how big or small it is.

That sounds really nice.  Bad handwriting is a huge problem.  I'm going to look into something like that.

I go the other way, from scraps of paper to my computer DJ.   Let's see what I'm up to: 783 pages, 371,189 words.  That's 3.5 years of dreams.

Mine is a little spiral bound notebook. My writing is too sloppy to put into a nice looking dream journal.

Recently I started typing up dream fragments on my ipod. It takes a little more time but at least I can read it in the morning and it gives me quick access to notes stored on it like lucid task lists, the meeting place, personal tasks that I can quickly skim over before going back to sleep.

edit

Speaking of the little i-devil, it just told me it's time to get my ass to bed. G'night.

Mine's about as tall as a regular book, but very thin with a metallic silver cover.

... That's right, I resurrected this thread. I finally got a DJ going. =)

I'm also chugging along in EWOLD so I am doing the DS cataloging. =)