Hi all-

My name is Ben and I've been a LI forum reader for a while now. First off, I would like to say thanks Linus for sharing such a wonderfully descriptive lucid dream. I REAlly enjoyed reading it. Also, thanks Joy and Ralph for posting links to your websites. I especially enjoyed checking out your artwork. I myself am an artist and love looking at all sorts of art from abstract to photo realistic. My URL is on my bio page if you or anyone else is interested in taking a look.

Last week I had five lucid dreams in one night. This is an all time record for me. While lucid in these dreams I was able to fly, spin, count, and try all sorts of other experiments. Without going into too much detail about everything, I noticed that light was often playing a prominant role in these LDs. For instance, at one point, I found myself on the second floor of a house. I wanted to find a way out of the house, but was unable to. At the end of one hall I was in, I saw what looked like a room with light streaming out of it. I said to myself "Ah! That must lead to a way out." Sure enough, when I got to the doorway, a set of steps was revealed to me that led outside. There were several other instances in the dream when I felt as if I intrinsically knew that gravitating toward lighter areas would prolong the dream. Perhaps it's because I always feel that when my dreams start getting dark, they can easily become unstable and end?

--Ben

That's interesting! I made a similar discovery in an LD last week (early morning of the 16th). Experimenting with different ways of exiting a house, I saw a shaft of light and followed it to an opening in the roof, thinking "Good idea!"

The dream went on for a long time, with light parts and dark parts - I don't know if light has a prolonging effect overall in my dreams - I like the dark anyway.

I'll go check out your website now, and then proceed to dreams,

good night,

Joy

Joy

Hi, Ben Naturally, I see possible symbolism in your dream. On the other hand, I read a lot on the forum that indicates physiological reasons for light in dreams - some change in the room - a spouse turns a light on, etc. Anyway, I enjoyed your website and admired your work. I particularly liked the green, creature from the black lagoon looking guy, and the greasy beasties. Also, the scene with the fish head on the building facade, (Was that a fountain?) and the green scene right before that one. Very dream-like to me. I would love to have a model of the green guy. Thanks for sharing your work. Hi, Joy. Did you ever get my e-mails about your website? If not let me know, so I can comment again. I particularly loved the one with the deer in the snow. I showed some of my work to a couple of friends Saturday and they absoutely loved it! It made me feel soooo good. There's one painting everybody seems to want to buy. (They also liked the unfinished normally cat canvas.) Maybe I'll make a website one of these days. I'm beginning to see many possibilities in that. I used to want to offer my editing services. Continued creativity in all aspects of life to all, Kate

Hey, stop that! I'm being all flattered here. smiles

Joy - Of course I'm enjoying school. It's great. What I don't like though, are the lessons. They're just boring and a total waste of time... And yes, I indeed like to be creative. Hmm... What will I do when I'm done with school? Maybe I'll be a genetic engineer, playing with the cornerstones of life. Or maybe I'll be a mad scientist totally lost in atoms and molecular compounds. Or why not a helicopter pilot? Or a tiger. That would be cool. Moving to India and sneaking around in the forests during the night. Well, seriously, I don't know. I've been asking myself that very question several times and the only answer I've come up with is that I don't have a single clue. I guess I'll start on some sort of university, but what I'll be reading is still a riddle.

Kate - About the village... I know I accepted it as being Mossgrift in the dream, but it didn't look as I had imagined at all. I had been picturing a more Asian-looking village down in a little valley, surrounded by thick jungle. A pleasant village with little orchards, flowers, lemurs jumping from roof to roof and small dwarf dragons resting on the windowsills. What I got was a much more Nordic version. A village with sturdy timbered houses, surrounded by a thick forest consisting of old spruces. The village lay up on a hill, not in a valley, and I saw neither dragons nor lemurs. And most important, the village was razed, burned to the ground. Something I hadn't expected. So from that angle it was indeed not Mossgrift. But I'm not sure which version was wrong, the pre-made or the one in the dream. I mean the pre-made was just a fantasy of mine, the other version I've actually visited!

Hmm... Interesting discussion about darkness by the way. I can agree to most of what you guys say. Sunnier, brighter dreams more often tend to be long and stable then duskier ones. A little sad, because I like darkness... But it seems pretty logical that it is this way, doesn't it? I mean the darker it gets the less you see, the less you bombard your brain with information from the dream world the more eager it is to abandon it.

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

Hi everyone,

The following is an account of my first live on cam ld for my www.lucid.tv project. (I'm using the dreamlight in front of a night shot camera connected to an internet streaming system. The dream light has been modified to trigger an external light, thus letting the outside world know that I'm dreaming)

Jan. 17

I had 2 dreams early in the night that incorperated lights coming from the dreamlight but I had not yet made the connection between the flashes in my dreams and the dream light. I awoke at 6am to do the "stay up and stay busy" thing. While awake I did very little but check my emails. I did, however, notice a homeless person walk by the big window of my store front location. I remembered seeing him before because during my "shopping" for a spot he had been the only human to say "hello" to me while I was just sitting outside checking out the "vibes" in the area in preperation for the project. He seems to be in his 40's and had a very long beard and a long dark trench. I remember thinking how special it was to see him again and I remarked that he was, other than me, the only person up at this time in this part of town.

At 07:37 I went to bed. My second dream of the morning was my ld.

I dreamt that I was in my "lab" in bed. A person looking very much like the homeless man cam into the room at walked right up to me and shone a flashlight into my eyes. I immediatly became lucid (it was such an obvious sign). Remembering what Dr. Laberge says on one of his recordings, I immediatly "engaged" in the dream. That is I wanted to create an attachement between me and the dream. I thus started simultaneously to speak to my homeless friend (anyone helping me be lucid is a friend!) and to fly gently around the room. I remember talking to him about a Rave that I had been reading about in my "dream" newspaper (there are no raves in this area).

After a few moments I decided to fly out one of the smaller windows in the room. The window was covered by a wire mesh (unlike the real world window). I remember pushing gently and finally feeling the mesh expand and eventually I was able to pierce a small whole that I enlarged to fly out of.

I then flew to a local hotel. I started loosing lucidity after I approached a girl and started to fondle her (she had exposed breasts).

I'm going to edit and upload the video associated with this ld.

Ps. Ralf and Kate, thanks for writing and /or posting your comments. I've not had many Lucid Dreamers write in, your encouragement has helped greatly ;)

Pss. Just has I was writing this, my homeless friend passed by. It was the first time I've seen him (4 days) since my ld. Weird. If I truly want to have success with lucid.tv I must ask him to come in and perhaps recreate the ld scene.

One of my goals with lucid.tv was to try to create video based on my dreams.

But how do I approach this man... Hi, I had a great dream with you in it.

It's strange, I understand that my personnal ld goal is to show more and more compassion for my fellow humans (I've been reading alot about Budhism). Perhaps I should just offer him a cup of coffee first ;)

I am standing on the back porch of the house I grew up in. It is cold, and I'm taking a leak because my sister is occupying the bathroom. I look in to the night sky to see not one but two moons, one slightly larger than the other. I become frightened, and call my mom, dad and sis to come validate what I'm seeing. When they reach the back porch, a fire truck pulls into the driveway, sirens screaming, and tear down the front door. My mother starts crying when the firemen tell us the house must be ripped down. I can hear war in the distance. Suddenly, the Earth shakes and the land my house is on slowly tilts downward, while on the horizon I can see another land rising. On the far land, there are giant Tutenkhamen type people setting fire to houses and destroying everything. I can see a few soldiers pulling a Trojan horse. I accept the fact that I am about to die, and that the two moons are an indication of Armageddon. A huge Tutenkhamen man rises from the horizon and lifts a huge sword. It slowly comes down on me as I slowly wake up with a song in my head (that I was able to record on my synthesizer upon waking).

Kevin,

What an incredible dream. Would you to be willing to share a sample of that music with us? I'd be very interested in hearing music inspired by such an intense dream.

Hi, Kevin. Wow! What a dream. And scary as hell. The feeling it gave me reminded me of the nuclear nightmnares I used to have when a kid. Not as imaginative, though. Re what you wrote about 9.11 in your bio, the book about dreaming I'm reading talks about info on the future coming in dreams as being quite common. He writes: "...dream precognition and telepathy are not only entirely natural, but quite routine phenomena. The only wonder is that in our culture, so many of us have allowed our dream radar to gather cobwebs." Michel - thanks for the continued commentary on your experiment, and the sharing of your dream. I'm sure forum readers are finding it very interesting, even if they aren't all posting anything. It's kind of like following a serial on tv. I'd love to hear Kevin's music from the dream, too, but I'm not sure how that could happen. Linus - I magine you'll know it when you find Mossgrift. P.S. What fish? Happy dreams, Kate

Hi, dreambodies. Any lucids lately? If anone is interested, my thoughts about a place in the Adirondaks is causing it to appear in my dreams. So that part is working. I'm hoping it becomes a dream sign. So I'll keep at it. Kate

Hi kate, Had my first one the other night.And although it didn't last for more than a minute or two it was very interesting, certainly enough to encourage further investigation. I've found going to bed at around 9p.m. (as I did on the night in question)helps my mind and body to relax about the amount of sleep that would otherwise be lost through getting up and recording dreams or practising m.i.l.d. or any other induction technicques. Prehap's, at least for some, becoming lucid within a dream is something that the mind has to be gently encouraged to allow to happen, rather than berated into to makeing it happen. Anway good luck. Rob ;-)

Hi Linus and Joy,

I'm not sure where it might have been posted earlier (couldn't seem to locate it with a word search), but to answer your question, Linus:

If you hold your breath in a dream, or if you breathe quickly, do you do it in reality too?

The answer is YES! To quote directly from "Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming", Chapter 2, subtitle " Dreamed action produces real effects on the brain and body":

... "The experiments just reviewed supported the conclusion that the events you experience while asleep and dreaming produce effects on your brain (and to a lesser extent, your body) much the same as if you were to experience the corresponding events while awake. Additional studies uphold this conclusion. When lucid dreamers hold their breaths or breathe fast in a dream, they really do hold their breaths or pant. Furthermore, the differences in brain activity caused by singing verses counting in the waking state (singing tends to engage the right hemisphere and counting, the left) are nearly duplicated in the lucid dream. In short, to our brains, dreaming of doing something is equivalent to actually doing it. This finding explains why dreams seem so real. To the brain, they are real."

This helps explain why, when I find myself underwater and needing air, I either wake up or suddenly discover I can actually breathe underwater without a problem. I suspect the end result of either waking or arriving at an erroneous conclusion may have something to do with the strength of the REM drive at that particular moment.

Being able to breath underwater may not always lead to lucidity (oh, yes, I remember now that I've always known how to do this!), but it is always an excellent dream sign!

Sweet dreams to all, Keelin

Hi, Rob. Congratulations on your first ld. Lucidity is a wonderful thing. You have a point, about trying too hard. I'm thinking there's a line between trying to force things and just being persistent. Dr Laberge trained himself to lucid dream at will, and so have some others. I'd love to get to that point. The good thing is that pursuing lucidity is improving my life in general, so I really can't lose. Ps to Kevin: BTW, I was saying before that my nuclear dreams were not as imaginative as your dream, not the other way around as it may have sounded. Mine tended to be pretty much the same thing over and over, and they certainly didn't have any pharohs in them. Lucidity to all, Kate

Thank you Kate and Michael. The only way you could hear the "theme music" to the Armeggedon dream is if I put it up on my band's website (which I won't shamelessly promote on this one!!!!). When I do, I'll send the address to you.

Here's another one:

I am driving through a forest when I fall asleep at the wheel. I wake up and my car is stuck in a flower bed. I get out of the car, and suddenly out of nowhere 2 ferocious black dogs knock me to the ground. One bites down on my left elbow the other bites down on my right hand. It is very painful when I struggle to get them off me, but I soon realize that if I stop fighting them and stay still, there is no pain. At this point, I become lucid and two Amish men with rifles appear, looking somewhat scared of me. I say to them "I am very frightened by your dogs--I mean you no harm, and if you remove your dogs I will not hurt you." They agree, and the dogs let go of me. I stand up to see that there is an entire Amish family standing behind the two men: two grandmothers, two grandfathers, two fathers, two mothers, and about 10 boys and girls. They all look frightened of me, so I try extra hard to show them I am not dangerous. The grandmother offers me a bag of carrots and the oldest daughter for me to marry. I wake up feeling like I'd just visited old friends, and I am confident that I will see them all again.

Oh here's something else:

I frequently dream that I am back in school at a study session for a final exam in a class I haven't attended all semester. I am trying to decide wether or not I should try to take the exam, or drop the class and take it over the following semester. The dream is not lucid, but it is re-occuring.

I think it means I'm putting something off or procrastinating. Does anyone else get this dream or one like it?

Nighty night, Kevin

Hi, Kevin. Recently, another forum member, Joy, had a lucid dream where someone from another culture offered her a chicken. Interesting parallel to your dream. I guess a chicken falls somewhere between a bag of carrots and a bride in value, depending on your value system. Yes, I frequently have dreamed I'm back in school and that report cards are due and there's a class or a few classes where I never did any of the work at all - basically forgot I even had the subject. I've also had a recurring theme in dreams of having to clean two houses and I have barely started on the first, and it's just not going to happen in the time left. I'm going to be letting people down. Also I have a recurring theme of having several articles due for my newspaper and not having started on any of them. (Housecleaning and reporting are two jobs I've had.) I also had a NLD last night that reminded me of your armegeddon dream. (Am looking forward to hearing the music.) Here it is: War outside the window - I was in this apartment with other people, I think they were some combination of family and friends. We were in a cozy living room, and there was a picture window. It was dark outside, but I knew the coast was only yards away ' our place was right on the beach. War had broken out between the US and some enemy ' I think the Russians ' and their troops had landed on the shore, and our people were fighting with them right outside my apartment. I couldn't see this, but I knew it, and I could hear the gunfire. I recall thinking, I guess this is a troop war instead of nuclear so far, thank God for that, but I was of course still horrified, and I couldn't understand why everyone else in the room was so calm and seemed not even that concerned. Someone, it might have been my husband, was pointing out that my emotions weren't solving anything and that serenity was the better way, along with doing the appropriate footwork. And I realized he was right, that my emotions were just an indulgence. But no one was doing anything! I was thinking how with war right outside the window, enemies might come into this place, and we were defenseless and unprepared. I locked the sliding glass door, and was going around checking out windows to lock them also. Then I recalled that I could get information about the war if I turned on the TV, because surely many stations would be covering it. But there was only some silly thing on like the home shopping channel, or an infomercial, or something. I couldn't believe everyone, including the broadcasters, was being so casual and disinterested. It seemed nuts to me ' probably an obvious missed clue. Congratulations on yet another ld! Happy dreams to all, Kate

I've recently had some new experiences in Lucidland which have me puzzled. I'd been intending to ld for healing purposes. On 2 occasions (1/24 and 1/30), I've had a series of 2-4 lucid dreams in the early morning. These ld's are unusual in that they're not vivid, unlike my previous ld's and even the non-ld's dreamsigns which immediately preceded them, and they're interrupted by a period of time in which I can feel my physical body lying in bed and even stretching in bed and hear surrounding morning noises. I'm afraid I'm waking up so i spin furiously to keep dreaming, only I don't have a dream body any more so I have to imagine spinning furiously. I manage to strengthen the dream briefly, but then the whole waking process starts again, and I spin again, etc. This has been frustrating, because the small amount of time that I managed to spend in the lds was very productive. I remembered to ask a dream doctor (who said he was "me") to heal the tendonitis in my hands, and one time he gave my hand a vigorous massage on a piece of paper, and the next week he just touched my hand. I don't believe in healing by touch but it seemed to work in the dream, and in waking life my hands have been better. I don't think these are false awakenings, because I still have the awareness of dreaming as well as of a waking self, but I'm puzzled by the fact that I can feel my body moving and stretching, even scratching an itch, while I'm dreaming, which doesn't fit the notion of "sleep paralysis". I guess one way to test this is to "let" myself wake up and do a reality check then, but if it turns out I'm awake then I'd have lost the lucid dream for good. Any ideas? I'd really like to get back to the very vivid ld's i used to have and keep my physical body out of my dreams.

It happened! It happened! It happened! Oh frabjous day! I got lucid! I was in a NLD where I seemed to be in a hospital and/or hotel, and I kept looking for a private bed. I went into one room and I guess slept for a while. Then I got up, and as I was looking around the room I realized that this was a room which actually belonged to someone already ' obviously a woman. There were perfume bottles and other feminine items on the dresser, and stuffed animals lined up on the other bed, and signs of use like a slip lying on the dresser. It was all very elegant. I was wondering at someone making themselves so much at home in a hotel room. Then I started thinking, I wonder if this is one of those false awakenings, which would mean I'm dreaming? So I thought, I hope I am, and let me start exploring this place and see what happens. So I opened the door and stepped into the hallway. There was a table in the hallway with a basket containing some item that doesn't exist in real life. The items were pink, so I tried transforming their color to blue as a test that I was lucid. I wasn't sure whether it would happen. The items started getting a mottled blue on them, and that was proof enough for me, so I kept walking. I went downstairs, wanting to go outside and check out the outdoors. There were a lot of people in the kitchen, it seemed, and I was heading out the back door off the kitchen and down the porch stairs. The house was old, so there were nice plantings against it and a trellis with a vine. Then a young woman who doesn't exist in real life stopped me. She was standing in the kitchen doorway. She had short dark hair and was evidently a co-worker of mine, and she wanted to let me know that my husband had been trying to get in touch with me and had gotten frustrated and angry because he was misinformed about my work situation. In the dream, this had kept him from being able to reach me. The confusion was something about which dr's I worked for, and that none of them have lead times before their appts. She wanted to warn me that he was aggravated. I was okay with this but was concerned that he might have gotten angry at her, which he wouldn't do in real life. She said she was okay, she just wanted to warn me. I was anxious to get away, because I didn't know how long the dream would last, and I wanted to explore, not hang around at the back door. I'd forgotten about all the prolonging techniques, like spinning. Then a friend I became basically estranged from 17 years ago because of something that was my fault walked past me up the stairs and into the kitchen. She gave me kind of a humorous look and threw up her hands, obviously busy, and I wasn't sure how she felt about me, but I felt now I knew where to find her. She obviously worked there. So I walked along the path lading out of the yard, which was beautiful with long-time plantings, and into a woods. There seemed to be a little dog with me, but he was kind of a vague presence. The sky was a beautiful blue, with narrow clouds like a lot of filmy white dashes in the sky. In the woods, I was walking along a path and saw that the path ended in a lot of smooth, mossy granite stones, with water tumbling over them and ferns alongside, just like in the Adirondacks. I was thrilled, and squatted down to touch the water, and was thinking: how amazing the way the dream source had chosen to do things. Instead of placing me in the Adirondacks in the dream, things I loved best about the Adirondacks were brought to the locale I was in. Then I heard a voice, and I saw a figure. I was defenseless and isolated, so my first thought was, is he a danger? I seemed to forget I was lucid and didn't have to fear harm. I saw a young male, maybe 16, and he looked and was dressed like Apaches on TV shows, with pants made of hide and that kerchief around his head. He was standing next to a motorcycle, and I was aware of the incongruity. Because I took the route of fear, I started running back to the house I'd left. He went running after me, and as I ran I tried to yell for help. I managed to get some decent sound the first time, but then as I got close to the house, I couldn't make any sound. But some male presence came out of the house and killed the Apache, which was not what I had wanted. I was inside the house in the aftermath of this, and then I recalled that since this was only a dream, I wasn't required to deal with the police, so I left again, still determined to explore the outdoors. I was walking outside again, this time in an open area to the right of the woods. I passed some empty building on my right, but then the place was totally open again with another woods to the right - nice, flat-land scenery, and that same sky. I was thinking that since this was an ld, I could make the Apache be alive again and put him in some nice situation. Then I realized that he wasn't real, so I wouldn't bother. In waking retrospect, I suspect I may have missed a wonderful opportunity to talk to a dream guide because of my fear and assumptions, and my being uptight that the dream would end. I was worried as to when the dream would end, and I couldn't think of things to do in order to make use of the dream. I recall thinking that when I woke up I would ask on the forum if anyone had any new ideas to put on the fun things to do while ld'ing site, but seemed to forget the suggestions already there. I thought of Joy in particular. The little dog continued to be with me, a friendly, loyal little presence. Then I decided to fly, and I did a leap to start me off, and was flying! It's only the second time I've done that in an ld. It was lovely, and reminded me of jumping into a pool or lake on a hot day. I was enjoying looking down on the scenery. Then the sky went blank, a sort of gray, and I landed against my will, and I thought, oh-oh, this is going to end soon. But I tried taking off again and was successful, and the sky came back, although the scenery tried to become replicas of the real thing, like little trees and things for model train scenery. I thought to use Joy's suggestion of going to all the high branches we could never reach in the trees of childhood, but then I did wake up. Thanks to everyone for all the intriguing and inspiring contributions, which I know helped. Particular thanks to Owen, Rob and Ted, for reminding me to keep on trying the waking in the early am and returning to sleep method, and their tips. I had set my alarm for 4, and I think this did it this time. Happy dreams to all, Kate

Callooh! Callay!

Joy

Naomi, good to see you back at the keyboard! Your dream doctor must be effective indeed. I wouldn't worry about the brevity of the sessions - sounds like he's a typical modern physician who treats you in record time and shows you the door!

Seriously, I wonder if it's somehow best to wake soon after the treatment so that no intervening dream content dilutes its effectiveness.

Last night I asked a dream character for "spiritual guidance," immediately woke and wrote down what I was told, and felt very pleased at having captured the exact quote, only to discover later that it was a false awakening and I remembered not a word!

Joy

Thanks Naomi for posting those LDs. I'm glad that your interest in healing imagery in LDs has been producing some results even though the degree of lucidity you achieved was not as high as you had hoped for.

I have tendonitus in my right arm and shoulder and I have wondered myself whether or not I could somehow create healing imagery in my LDs that could help with my problem. Trying to meet with a healer of some sort sounds like a great place to start. I'm going to have to try it out :o). I've also thought about finding hot springs or a special salve that could cure me. I must ask, in the two LDs where you met with a healer, did he look or act similar in both dreams?

If you're interested in other stories and down to earth advice about healing, Dr. Andrew Weil wrote a wonderful book called 'Spontaneous Healing' in 1995 that discusses how the body maintains itself and how it can also potentially heal itself from debilitating or deadly diseases. He maintains that we can increase the possibility of healing ourselves without medical intervention through changing our lifestyles, mainly our diets, exercising habits, and our mental states.

--Ben

congrats Kate on your LD! I really enjoyed reading it :o)

Hello Lders, It's good to be back, though I don't have that much time to post on the forum. Joy and Kate, I'm always amazed at how prolific you both are. Congrats on your wonderfully intricate ld, Kate, and Joy, I'm really looking forward to meeting you in Hawaii. As for my pale but possibly healing mini-ld's, I don't think post ld dreams dilute the effect, Joy, since the session where I got the healing massage turned into non-ld. About your question, Ben. In my very first, very dramatic ld ( i posted it on 12-10-01 on Learning Lucid Dreaming: Helpful tips for getting started) which took place in the mid-80's, I was chased by, and then confronted a very creepy doctor who, when I asked "who are you?", said, "you" (meaning me). Since then, I've found myself occasionally asking a dream character who they are, and when they answer "you", I know I'm dreaming and become lucid. (this is probably not the best reality check, but a habit my dream self picked up). In both of my recent ld's I first became lucid and then remembered my mission and willed a dream doctor to appear. Both times they were "me" (i didn't even have to ask, it was understood), but the dream was not vivid enough for me to see what they looked like. I didn't even have a dream body at that point. the doctor gave me a massage on a piece of paper. I am a skeptic and don't go for a lot of new age stuff like healing by prayer or touch, but i do agree with the the notion of us having more potential for using our consciousness in ways we haven't fully developed. I've also practiced yoga for many years and experimented with various lifestyle changes, and found that a lot of things do help up to a point, but none deliver the miracles most claim. Even the Dalai Lama goes to Western doctors. rationally lucid, Naomi

Hi, Naomi. It's nice to hear from you again, and I'm glad your fingers are so much better. You lucky thing, going to Maui too! I feel so left out... Oh well. Thanks for sharing your experiments with healing through ld's. I think there could be great potential there. As to your troubles in lucidland, although I'm not that experienced, as you know, I have to say I connect your experiences with being too close to waking consciousness. There's definitely an overlap area, in my experience. It's wonderful you were able to ld though, and able to summon your dream doctor. To me, us having more potential for using our consciousness in ways we haven't fully developed ties in with spirituality. However, your point about the Dali Lama speaks for itself. Joy, also nice to hear from you. I wish I could be at the adult pyjama party with both of you. (Of course I know it will be much more than that, but that's what comes into my mind, and it sounds so fun!) Ben - I'm so glad you enjoyed reading my ld! I know it takes up a lot of space, but I like to put in all the details. That just seems to be the way I am. Barely rational and marginally lucid, Kate

Hi, fellow oneironauts

Interesting developments here.

Kate, congratulations to your LD. I wish I had so much time in LDs, as you in this one. It reminds me of my first and long LDs. Now I have to work on prolonging LDs. But I think ist is worthwhile to find a more conscious way to to do it, than to be just subjected to whatever comes.

Naomi and Ben This may sound as an advertisment. But nonetheless I know/ have learned, that your tendonitis may be successfully treated with osteopathic means. Thanks for sharing dreams on healing. It is a very interesting subject for me.

Joy False awakenings provide some of the best jokes in my eyes.

Lucid living for all

Yours Ralf

Hi, Ralf!

Yes, I was more amused than dismayed by that one. Whatever higher power may exist, it is having some good laughs at my expense lately and I can't help but join in. After reading in Stephen's book about calling upon "the Highest" in lucid dreams, I tried it and immediately broke into little dissolving fragments of blue light and promptly woke up. Well, if I've been learning about spiritual traditions wherein the highest aspirations are "dissolution of Self" and "awakening," what should I expect?!?

Joy for all

Joy

P.S. I would rather have a chicken than a bride.

Dear Kate, You asked about my recent LD in the frustration support area:

Since I have the habit of mentally saying during LD's "stay calm, its a dream," I often tell characters around me that its all a dream. Some ignore me, some deny it, some agree but this one taught me something. I've read of how mystics, yogis, etc. speak of creation and all of us as part of a big cosmic dream. I've been drawn to this concept but couldn't identify with personally.

Well in this LD I tapped a friend on the shoulder & she jumped & was bugged at me. I assured her it was OK as I was dreaming and she and everything was all my dream. She agreed that it was all a dream but earnestly assured me that she wasn't my dream but was dreaming too! I laughed at her audacity and said "So you are saying that tomorrow when I wake up and see you in a meeting and ask you if you remember this dream you will?" She so sweetly and confidently said "Yes I will!" I was a little unsure because she was so convinced she was real and seemed to have such a strong sense of self. I laughed some more and awoke. Of course the next day I asked her if she remembered any dreams lately and she said No, then explained my dream. She confidently assured me it was not her. That my subconscious could create such a seamingly real, self-conscious character gave me a better personal understanding of how I might also be a character in the big dream and not realize it. Sweet dreams, Ted

Hello, fellow dreambodies! Was I lucid? - I was in a dream where I was in some kind of bedroom, I think. There was a sense the room was in a basement, like the room my mother made up in the cellar of their house years ago. I was on the floor by a bed, with a dog and a cat, or two cats, I'm not even sure which. I can't recall how I became lucid, but I realized I was, and I was telling the animals something about since I was lucid I was going to go do (something). There was some thought in my head about how lucky I was to get lucid again so soon. The recall is pretty poor, and I don't think the dream lasted that long. I often have the sense, after a lucid dream, that I only dreamed I was lucid. This time, I'm really not sure. Is there any way to tell? Thanks, Kate

Ted - Thanks for responding to my question. What you wrote, and your dream and your realization afterward, is intriguing stuff. I'd like to respond later, either here or at another site. Keep dreaming, Kate

Kate,

Congratulations on that long LD you posted Sunday! I've had few LDs as long as that. It was impressive.

I achieved a new task last week. This was to swim in the sea.

I generally try to remember 4 tasks at a time and then introduce another when I achieve one of the 4.

Currently I have:

Writing with my left hand (I'm right handed) Shrinking myself down to a very small size Swimming in solid ground in a dream scene (I've done it in the black void) Trying to feel as elated as possible

I remind myself many times during the day of the tasks and visualise doing them, usually I remember one or two in the LD.

Best wishes,

Owen

Hello Lders, About your question, Kate, of whether you were lucid or only dreaming you were lucid: You are dreaming that you are lucid in all lucid dreams. I think that, by definition, when you realize you are dreaming during a dream, you are lucid. There may be varying degrees of awareness that you are dreaming, and thus varying degrees of lucidity, but you are always in the dream state, thus dreaming that you are lucid. ps I still haven't received any suggestions to my query of a few days ago: How can I tell if my awareness of my waking body stretching in bed during early morning ld's is my real body or a dream of my waking body, without waking myself up to do a reality test and loosing the ld if it really was my waking body? dreaming logically, Naomi

Hi there everyone! Naomi, I'm not sure if I agree. I believe you can just dream you're lucid without actual being it. I remember one dream in which I said to myself "this is a lucid dream". But I didn't understand the meaning of it. I wasn't aware. I wasn't present in the way I usually am in my LDs. I didn't understand that my real body was lying in my bed. I didn't understand that what I saw around me wasn't real. It was just words. Words without meaning. So in that way I think you can dream you're lucid. It has only happened to me a few times. Two-three something. But still. Hmm... But whether Kate was lucid or not I don't know.

Very well, I hope you all have been sleeping well. January turned out very good for me. I bet my old record from October, 15-16 lucid dreams, with almost the double, 28 dreams. I'm very satisfied and I hope it continue this way.

I've also been using the "rubbing hand"-technique very successfully. Through out the whole dream I keep bombarding my brain with impulses from my sensory nerves. I rub my hands, touch my face, kiss the back of my hand, pat my belly and so on. For me this works very well to stabilise the dream and prolonging it.

Now to a fun thing which happened to me this morning: I had just awakened from a lucid dream, but I hadn't moved and lay still in my bed. Trying to renter the dream world. It took kind of long time, longer then usually, and I begun thinking I had spoiled the whole thing by thinking too much. I was fairly awake and aware of my body. Then suddenly a dog, a bearded collie if I'm not mistaken, leapt out from behind me. I was almost scared of the sudden occurrence. It was a total black void. Only that dog and me. I turned my head and watched him pass my leg. I followed him with my eyes, and when he stopped 4-5 metres a head I was looking out over a desolated desert. I stood on a dusty road which tortuous down in a little gully. It looked a little as an oasis because down in the gully there were trees and a lot of green vegetation, in contrary to the rest of the landscape, which at most had a few dead bushes. There were also these odd houses built in the treetops. I was pretty excited because most of my lucid dreams take place around my own home. I still wonder why. Well, I rubbed my hands and ran down the road towards the gully. But I think I looked down and said something to the dog, and when I looked up again all the trees and houses were gone. Instead there were a few bushes and an old shack. The dream continued for a while but nothing worth telling about happened.

I've never gotten into a dream that abrupt before. Usually you lay there fantasise and then suddenly you realise it's a dream. But now I was thrown from reality, into a black void, into the dream world in a matter of seconds. Very cool. I hope it happen again.

And Keelin, thanks for your answer on that thing about breathing, I appreciate it.

So long!

hi, I think there's some semantic confusion here, Linus. I agree that there are various degrees of lucidity. Some lucid dreams are more lucid, with total awareness of the lucid state and its implication, and some dreams are less lucid, with the lucidity being just words to that effect, rather than awareness, like in your example where you realize that you're dreaming but still think the world around you is real. My point was that all these lds, with their various degrees of awareness, are DREAMS. Thus, we're always dreaming when we're lucid in an ld, and therefore dreaming that we're lucid. The alternative would be to say that we're actually awake when we have an ld. This would greatly complicate things, as far as I'm concerned, because then we must be asleep when we're awake! (Oops, did I just prove that what the Tibetans have been saying is right?)

Still no help with my dilemma, posted above on Feb 4 and Feb 8. Come on, somebody must have some ideas about this!

Philosophically lucid, Naomi

Cool. Sounds like you landed somewhere near MY home. Please send the dog to take me somewhere near YOUR home.

Joy

Naomi

Try to fly or to spin. If it works, you are dreaming. If it doesn't, take a very close look at how your body feels, if anatomical limitations / proportions are respected, if the place feels like the bed you actually sleep in. I had similar experiences and didn't want to wake up, like you (none of us oneironauts wants to interrupt an LD, mostly). If you take a look at Linus' postings, you see, that it sometimes takes long spinning or handrubbing, until a dreamscene is established. Just experiment!

Ralf

Naomi

I finally found one of my reports, posted in the thread "The LDE -OBE connection" in 2000. This is for illustrating what I wrote in the last posting.

... I hear this noise, just like in the onset of last "OBE". This time I'm not afraid. I decide to let it happen and to be aware. The noise stays loud. I feel my physical body lying in bed and something is turning around and around through this body. Feels like another body. I speculate about the anatomical and neurological connection between acoustical and vestibular afferences and their processing. Seems, as if there may be some disturbance in both sytems during sleep onset. I then decide to focus on the noise and on deeper relaxation.

It works: I feel an abrupt shift between two perceptions:

1. My physical body lying on bed, now on the right side.
2. The other body hovering approximate three feet above the surface of the bed, lying on the back. Perception is shifting between 1. and 2. several times. I start counting: "One, I'm dreaming, two..." I can't count further. I'm torn into a fully blown up dream - scenario. No picture, but a film. I'm fully aware, but soon I'm torn out of dream again. Now, perception is shifting between 1., 2. and different short dreams for several times. I'm sorry, but I can't recall the content of the dreams.

Now I decide to do some hand - rubbing to stabilze dream perception. Again, perception is shifting:

1. It feels just like I remember rubbing physical hands. Anatomical limits of skin and range of movement are respected. But I can't believe, that I actually move physical body. I don't want to open my eyes, because I'm sure this would be the end of this interesting state of perception.
2. It doesn't feel like normal hand - rubbing. Anatomical limits are not respected, rubbing is abnormal fast. I percieve a flow of energy. Feels ecstatic.

I do the same with my feet. Feet - rubbing. Feels like 1., but this time I'm sure, I don't move the physical body. In waking I'm not able to lie on my back, put the soles of my feet together with both knees touching the matress. While writing, it dawns on me, that my physical body was lying on the right side, not on the back! There is no visual perception while rubbing. After some time, perception is getting "normal" again. I open my eyes and do a state - check. Now, I'm not dreaming. I feel very good. The pain inside my belly is gone. I'm very glad. I "achieved" my first WILD during sleep onset and experienced some interesting phenomena connected to vibratory state. ...

Thanks, Ralf, for replying to my query. I still feel misunderstood. The problem is that in these cases I have no dream body so I can't rub my hands. I'll explain more in detail what happens. The first time, it was after going to sleep with the intention of becoming lucid and to ask my dream doctor to treat my sore finger. I did have a lucid dream and remembered to ask for the doctor and got a treatment. I was aware that since I was dreaming the doctor was a manifestation of "me". The treatment consisted of the doctor giving my hand a vigorous massage on a piece of paper. (the paper was understood to also be a manifestation of me and therefore could receive the treatment for my hand.) During the procedure I was aware that I didn't have a body in the dream (therefore the need for the paper to replace my hand for the treatment), and I also was aware of my sleeping body lying in bed and stretching. I heard the usual sounds I hear mornings, like my son turning on the shower in the bathroom, so I thought I might be waking up and started spinning to prevent that. Since I had no dream body, I could only imagine spinning, but it worked enough to strengthen the dream a bit, so I started flying in the sky, but got a scary feeling. I started becoming aware of my body lying in bed again, so I imagined spinning again furiously, and this went back and forth several times until I wound up in a nonlucid dream.

The next time this happened was about a week later, this time I started in a nonlucid dream where I saw a colorful lizard in my living room, then a big frog. I opened the balcony door and the frog jumped out and I chased out the lizard. As I was watching him jump down to a ledge below and shake as he landed, I realized I was dreaming. I spun to keep dreaming, but when I stopped I again had that awareness of my body lying in bed and stretching (I can't control this body) and hearing morning noises, so I spun again. At one point between spinnings I saw the doctor again, who gave me some kind of healing by touch. I went back and forth between spinning and feeling my waking body several times.

This was about 10 days ago and i haven't ld'd since. I think I have to come up with a different strategy to prolong ld, since it's hard to spin or rub hands with no body. I remember Keelin once said to engage the dream environment in order to strengthen it, so I'm trying to think how to do that.

I hope these things aren't OBE's. I'm trying to have ld's and not get into OBE's, which are a bit too weird for my taste. I hope I get a choice about these things!

Sticking with ld's Naomi

Naomi,

During sleep there appears to be different levels of awareness of one's physical body -- from the usual lack of awareness to full awareness. When awareness of the physical body is high, one may experience sleep paralysis or, if lucidity occurs, "out-of-body" phenomena. Even though the term OBE is descriptively accurate (I had seven last month), I feel it misrepresents what is happening. I do not believe in god or souls and find no evidence that my OBEs are "real." For me, the more awareness I have of my physical body during lucidity, the more difficult it is to spin, control my dream, and change the dream scene.

The dreams you are asking about I would not consider OBEs. Perhaps your mind is thinking, "If I can feel my body in bed I can't have another one." To remain lucid I'd try looking at the floor, and try repeating to yourself "I'm dreaming." That has helped me.

So far, I have not been able to control whether I have an OBE or become lucid while already in a dream. I prefer the latter.

John

Hi, Ted. I like to simply tell myself to stay calm when I realize I'm lucid, also. Or if the dream seems as if it's trying to end, I'll do something within the dream to try and prolong it, like transforming something. I never seem to want to do anything practical with my dream body such as spinning, hand rubbing, etc., although I'm sure I will, if I recall within the ld to do it, and I think it will work. But getting too excited and waking up doesn't seem to be a problem for me anymore, anyway. It's as if I learned my lesson in a ld I had where I dropped to my knees and gave thanks, and immediately awoke. (Nice if I could have learned lessons that quickly and easily in waking life!) Fascinating that your dream with the friend, which seemed so real, gave you a more personal experience of understanding the Tibean dream peoples' beliefs. I have no problem getting a sense of, "this is all a dream" in waking life. The thing that holds me back from getting "into" that concept is my logical mind saying "but what about the world of physics, which exists in the waking world, but not in the dream world in my mind?" I think I should read the Tibetans next. I just finished "Conscious Dreaming." I've just been reading in that book about dreaming of others, and then it turns out that the dream had a message of warning about the other person, or that the other person had a corresponding dream, but not the same one. (In reference to your experience of dreaming so realistically of your friend.) Joy has offered to share her experience of a mutual dream on the forum. I'd sure like to hear it - I'm not sure what site would be good. Maybe it would even entice Adastra back from the stars, to comment once again on the forum. Keep dreaming, Kate

Dear Kate, On the question of "who's real and who's dreaming, me or the giant ME?" I guess what I meant is not necesarily my physical existance but my personal sense of conscious separate identity, my ego. Whether dreaming or awake I sure feel real to me. The concept that I might be really the cosmic dreamer who just needs to awaken is expansive for me.

Regarding being held back by the world of physics: I've never felt the physicists are likely to get a handle on ultimate reality anyway. They have a long way to usefully connect consciousness to their ever changing theories on the cosmos. If science is ever to understand what's really occuring on this "stage of life," anytime soon it will come from the scientific study of subjects like Lucid Dreaming and scientists like Dr. LaBerge! Anyway thats my 2 cents.

Happy dreamtime, Ted

Ted,

I had a wonderful conversation with a friend today in which we explored a view of the sciences as a multitude of paths leading outward from the little central room that is the egoic self, each path fascinating and ever more finely divided, each ultimately opening out onto the same vast view of infinite mystery beheld by the first hirsute hominid who stared in wide-eyed wonder at the stars.

That's my 22 cents (two cents and a paradigm),

Joy

Hi, Ted and Joy. It's not that I feel that the science of physics answers all questions or is the last word on anything. I was just making a distinction between the waking world and the dreaming world, in that one is subject to the laws of physics as we understand them, and the other is (wonderfully)not. So I have trouble seeing both worlds as being dreaming ones. But, since I haven't read any of the Tibetans, I know nothing of what they say about this concept. So I'll really have to start reading on this subject. In the meantime, I raise you both a quarter. Dream on, Kate

Hi, Naomi and Linus. Thanks for your comments. "There may be varying degrees of awareness that you are dreaming, and thus varying degrees of lucidity, but you are always in the dream state, thus dreaming that you are lucid." I don't know the technical situation, if there is one, for lucid dreaming. But on a personal level, I always feel in a lucid dream that I am awake within the dream, rather than dreaming I'm awake within the dream. I make distinctions between the two worlds in my mind, and am very conscious of what I'm doing. After reading your comments, I realized that what felt different in the experience I described compared to my regular ld's, is that I didn't have as much of a sense of being awake within the dream. It was more as if I were dreaming I was lucid. Which pretty much bears out what you said, Naomi, about different levels of awareness within the ld. BTW, I'm never aware of my real body lying in the bed during an ld - I don't think about it either way. All of "me" is concentrated in the ld experience. I agree with John re the different levels of awareness of one's body when mentally between the waking and dreaming worlds. And I think there is often a trade-off between dreaming some more, and staying conscious in order to recall a dream before it fades - things like that. The state of sleep paralysis has entered my dreams the most often in my attempting to scream, and not being able to. Owen - thanks for your thoughts, and for reminding me once again to do regular reminder tasks throughout the day. I keep saying I will do so, and then just get lost in busyness. I think the answer is to put a sign on my computer and on the wall by my desk. It will be fun deciding what to use for signs. Elation in all dreams to all, Kate

Linus - What an exciting experience you had with the dog. It sounded at first as if you'd had a false awakening, but I get the impression you were truly awake, and then fell into the black void with the bearded collie. I'm not clear at what point the scene changed from your real room to one containing the dog, and then to the black void. But it probably doesn't matter. If it were my dream, I would consider what it was, conceptually, that the guide dog showed me, and what dogs and being bearded mean to me. It sounds like your ld experiences might be expanding to new realms. Congratulations, and keep reporting on it. Also, congratulations on your pursuing the dream in the face of your fear. Now you have a new creature to join your dream fish. You can start a menagerie. Zooilogically yours, Kate

Hi, Kate!

Meet your quarter and raise you one! After one and a half millennia of Buddhism teaching "Regard all events as if they were dreams," reinforcement for this paradoxical paradigm came from an unexpected quarter: quantum physics. The waking world IS "subject to the laws of physics as we understand them" - classical, Newtonian physics. But this whole world turns out to be made up of tiny particles, quanta, that are mostly empty space and whose very nature seems to depend upon when, how, and if we observe them. If you've read about the double slit experiment, in which light exhibits completely different behavior as a particle or wave depending entirely upon how you set up to observe it, you know how perplexingy paradoxical these phenomena can seem.

Alan Wallace, who spent many years as a Tibetan Buddhist monk before studying physics, gives an intriguing introduction to the interrelationship of quantum physics and Buddhist philosophy in pages 95-110 of his book "Buddhism With an Attitude" (and has written whole books on the subject which I haven't yet read). Excerpts:

...the simple mnemonic, "Regard all events as if they were dreams," shakes the very foundations of our existence. Neils Bohr's comment about quantum mechanics - "Those who are not shocked when they first come across quantum theory cannot possibly have understood it" - is equally true of these teachings....

At the turn of the century, physicists were astonished to find that the fundamental components of physical reality seemed to depend on the mode of questioning and method of measurement.... As physicist Bernard d'Espagnat recently commented, "It seems we are forced (by physics, not philosophy!) to acknowledge that we cannot know mind-independent reality as it is. In other words, the world described by science must be considered as being a picture of mind-independent reality, not as it really is, but as it is seen through the selective and deforming lens of our own sensory and mental structures."

...A more radical view of physics asserts that in order for phenomena to shift from a state of being merely possible to being tangibly real, consciousness is instrumental. Awareness of an event is the actual trigger that makes potentia transform into physical reality. This is a minority view... held by some very brilliant people....

Physicist Nick Herbert wrote: "The source of all quantum paradoxes appears to lie in the fact that human perceptions create a world of unique actualities - our experience is inevitably 'classical' - while quantum reality is simply not that way at all.... Since physics assures us that our lives are embedded in a thoroughly quantum world, is it so obvious that our experience must remain forever classical?" .... But integrating insight into experience is exactly what Buddhist contemplative practice is all about.... How deeply the insights of quantum physics and those of Buddhist contemplatives actually coincide remains to be seen. It certainly deserves careful investigation.

-B. Alan Wallace 2001

That makes $0.74 worth of food for thought.

Joy

http://www.fortunecity.com/emachines/e11/86/qphil.html for more about the double slit experiment and other quantum wierdness

Hey! Hmm... I see what you mean Naomi. But still... I don't know, maybe it's me not knowing the language, but it feels wrong somehow. I mean saying that you are "dreaming you're lucid". It sounds as if you only believed you was lucid, but in fact you wasn't. In a true lucid dream you ARE lucid and you ARE awake. The conscious you are awake, even if the subconscious still maintain an illusion. Saying you're dreaming sounds like if you wasn't aware. As if you was still taking part in the illusion like fool, believing it to be reality. But sure, I understand what you mean. It's still a dream. I just don't feel comfortable saying it because the one I am, my conscious part, my ego, are no longer a slave under that illusion. It has broken free and taken control. Maybe the word "dreaming" have slightly different meanings in English and Swedish, I don't know.

"Congratulations on your pursuing the dream in the face of your fear." I must admit, Kate, that I'm confused. Very confused. Because I have no idea what you're meaning. Could I have an explanation maybe? Or do I need to find the answer elsewhere?

And what fish? You mean those fishes which occasionally are found after my "so long"? Then I must inform you that those fishes are not my fishes. They're borrowed from Douglas Adams. Heard of him?

Anyway, after a few lucid dreams the day before yesterday I had a false awakening and experienced a rather amusing dream. Thinking I was awake I went back to the scene where my recent lucid dreams had been taking place. It was a little as if going backstage. Or viewing a "how they made"-documentary. I met all the people who had been working "behind the camera" in order to maintaining my dream. It was really fascinating. I could never have imagined there were so much hard work and so many people involved. I can only name like a tenth of what all that they did is called. There was everything from light-technician to flow-engineers and co-ordination supervisors. They showed me around and I met all the actors, saw how the scenes really looked like and so on. It's indeed fantastic how much they can do with computers nowadays! And it's fun, at one stage in my lucid dream I was having this fight with a guy up in the air. With my "magic powers" I sent him away on a rather nasty flight. Now afterwards they told me that one of the strings, invisible to me in the lucid dream thanks to blue-screen technique, had snapped and that he had broken his arm in the fall. I felt pretty bad about this. But they assured it wasn't anything serious and that it was part of the job. When being a stunt man you have to take a few hits. This calmed me a little but I told them to give him my excuses.

Soon thereafter I awoke, thanking my brain for all the bizarre and humours dreams it bless me with. Long live my brain!

Lucidity to everyone!

And so long! (no fishes this time)

Long live your brain, and on behalf of all the fish, I thank you.

Hi, fellow dreambodies. Linus - "I was almost scared of the sudden occurrence. It was a total black void. Only that dog and me." Evidently, I read something into your experience that wasn't there, based on these words. I was "perceiving" through the filter of my own outlook. I feel I have too much fear, and liked the idea of you merging undaunted into the black void. As to the fish, I had the impression you dream of them a lot, and mention them. But I must be thinking of something else... Joy - You are certainly putting me through my mental paces, but I guess someone has to do it. I'll have to read your posting a few hundred times and check that website, and then get back to you. I do recall someone explaining to me once about the basis of quantum physics - the first instance they've found of something that won't be tied down to a consistent rule of behavior. (As we know rules of behavior.) I will call the esoteric bookstore tomorrow and see what they have on the Tibetans. Right now I'm reading The Pagan Mysteries of Halloween, by a demonic-looking anthropologist. Thanks for keeping my brain on it's toes, Kate

Hi all you dreamers, Excuse my long absence; waking life takes way too much of my time. Thanks to those who reponded to my queries, especially john with reassurances about my concerns that I was going into OBE's instead of LD's. After looking through my dream journal for LD's, I realize my problem in the last year has been that my sleep is extremely light, especially in the early morning when ld's tend to come, so that waking consciousness tends to intrude. This is very different from the problem others have of not being aware enough to be truly lucid, just "dreaming" that they're lucid. Maybe these are opposite problems. Maybe there's an "awareness continuum"; at one end non-lucid dreams, then increasing awareness with increasing degrees of lucidity, then lucidity with awareness of physical sensory input, then waking.

I liked your link to quantum physics with the further links to consciousness, Joy. That stuff fascinates me too. I read the Dancing Wu Li Masters and Tao of Physics years ago, and wonder if there's any new developments. Someone out there is hopefully creating more bridges between the western and eastern views.

And what's this about fish? I missed the start of that topic, but I've been having a lot of weird dreams (non-lds) about fish the last few months. In one the fish keep swallowing each other until someone pulls the plug and they all go down the drain, while in another they start growing out of control until someone pulls the whole pond off and hauls it away. I was wondering if it's a metaphor for my acceptance of the view that life is a dream, and all it's fish can disappear just like that.

to deep, very lucid fishy dreams naomi

Hi, Naomi -

I just borrowed a copy of Alan Wallace's "Choosing Reality: A Buddhist View of Physics and the Mind," published in 1996 by Snow Lion. I'll let you know what I think of it.

Joy