Hi! I had unusually many and funny dreams last night. I played both GTA 2 and Red Faction, very cool. And I was at a big amusement park. Rode all kinds of breathtaking roller coasters. I also drove four-wheeler. I would have killed myself if it had been reality. Later on, in an other dream, I stole a car and speeded away as a maniac. Ha! I love dreams! I also met a very (with the stress on very) nice girl. I saw another picture that I think I'll never forget. It was in Japan. A big hill with a magnificent tree and the sun, rising up above the horizon, behind it. The whole scene was accompanied by music made by Enigma. Incredible beautiful. And i even had a lucid dream!

After freeing a poor little frog captured inside a vacuum oven (don't know the correct translation) I suddenly stopped and thought back on what I had done, and how I had been acting the last couple of minutes. Then it struck me that I didn't act like this in reality. That this was a characteristic way for me to act in my dreams. In a blink of an eye I was transferred to our house and put on our balcony. (I can't figure out why so many of my lucid dreams starts at my house). Now I was lucid. It was a wonderful, cold winter morning with snow on the trees and a blue sky. I flew down from the balcony and landed on the street outside. I didn't remember my village. Instead I started walking. I don't really know where I was heading but suddenly I remembered I should try to rub my hands. And so I did. I don't know if I got more lucid. But it was indeed a greater success then that spinning technique, because I got aware of my body in a way I wasn't before. Suddenly I could feel every part of it, from tip to toe. I felt the cold and as a result of that I got goose pimples. It was really cool, so real. I touched my face and kissed the back of my hand. It was almost more real then reality.

I started moving again. I wanted to find some dream characters. Up the street a truck came. It stopped at one of the houses and out stepped a man with dark hair. I said I wanted to discuss something with him. I thought this could be a fun idea. I mean discussing with yourself to see if you think the same. He begun unloading tons of books while saying: "Sure. I'll tell you how it is. I'll explain it all. It's interesting to discuss. I'll teach you everything." It was impossible to make him listen. He just kept taking out books from his truck and pile them up at the street while mumbling about ancient cultures and stuff. He showed me some books about the Aztecs and the Inkas. I suggested we could discuss religious beliefs instead. Then I don't remember much more. The dream disappeared and I woke up. I took up a paper with a dream form from the floor and begun filling it out. But when I was about to rate the sexual activity in the dream and gave it a six I became a little puzzled. I didn't do any sexual activities at all in that dream, so why did I give it a six? I woke up. For real this time.

By the way, interesting ideas about scene-changing in LDs. I'll soon, I hope, try the technique I described a while ago. The one involving a control panel. I'll get back to you with the result of the test as soon as it's conducted.

Sleep well!

Hi dreamfolk

Barbara, I share your irk about the "aliens built the pyramids" thing. However, I disagree with both your position and that of the "literalists" (or whatever you want to call them) regarding OBE's.

It seems to me that, at the very least, we probably agree that there is a valid distinction to be made in labelling certain events as "Out of Body Experiences", since many people distinguish these from other sorts of dreams and experiences. After that, though, there generally seem to be two main schools of thought. One group holds that the experience is "real" in the sense that they are literally in some sort of energy body travelling around in the (so-called) "real" world; another contends that it is "merely" an illusory experience, the brain constructing a realistic environment just as it does when you're walking around in a physically awake state.

I don't know which position is closer to reality. Is the brain more like a computer, or more like a TV set? Is it like a lens, focusing universal mind into a particular location in space and time? I don't know; I don't think anybody knows yet, and maybe we never will. Wasn't it Stephen Hawking who said that even if we develop a complete mathematical description of physical reality, we still wouldn't know what "breathed fire into the equations?"

As for the dreambody concept, I agree with what you say, dreambody is a useful metaphor; however, I would also note that according to some BS (Belief Systems), the dreambody survives physical death. Does it? Not having been dead before - as far as I recall - I really don't know...

Anyway, see you all in hyperspace...

Ralf, Keelin: re "creating/going to special environments":

I can't claim this is any sort of method, since it isn't anything I controlled, it just happened once in an LD and I found it very useful. But maybe someone with more "control" could use it as a method. It is near the beginning of the following dream report, from September 2001:

<following a report about an NLD I'd just had> Earlier this morning I had splendid lucid dreams. I don't remember much now. I was going from room to room of a huge house--noticing the new magnificent complex design of each room. I was aware that I had come up with a great method for gentler transitions. Not spinning and completely losing context, but just entering each new room, giving my brain a chance to create a new setting. Each one was very beautiful and completely different from the previous one, and I felt "surprise" even though I knew my mind must be creating it.

I was also aware that everything was so clear and hung together so well and it was such a shame that when I woke up I'd probably have trouble remembering most of it. I was very aware that there was none of the fragmentation that dream memories have later--my experience was just as coherent as being awake.

I did try to focus on one thing and remember it, but I don't think it was the one thing I do remember: an end table made out of a hollow fused glass cube. The top contained many layers of colored fuseed glass on one side and not on the other, so that it formed a sort of ledge; not sure whether it formed a "bridge" or not. It was very beautiful.

This is the end of the relevant portion, but since this is the "Post your lucid dreams" forum, I guess I can go on and report the rest of the dream for whoever might be interested:

I was going up a stairway when I had most of these thoughts. Generally the rooms were about their appearance, what objects they contained and how everything combined together to make the look of the room. But one room was simpler; it just had a giant pool table in the middle, and there were people in that room. There was also a net-like floor that I fell right through when I walked in. So I was falling for a while, neither afraid nor thrilled, simply observing it as one more fact.

Twice I woke up (or thought I did). The first time it was from closing my eyes, not sure if it was when I was falling or some other time. I knew I was in my bedroom, or rather it looked a lot like my bedroom but I knew it wasn't real. The vision was very "gray", as if only my rods were working even though there was enough light for the cones to work.

I know I made it back to the going-from-room-to-room dream after the second "awakening", not sure about after the first one." (Yeah, I know that sounds backwards, but that's what I wrote) Also, during one of the "awakenings" I was only floating about, hesitant to use my legs for fear it would wake me up. I did eventually get them moving. Also, one of the times just as I was going to sleep I felt body sensations. Still unusually lucid, I remembered to notice the sensations. That seemed to be a bad idea because I immediately felt a strong strangling pressure on my throat, as if it were being pushed from the outside. I grasped my throat with my hand to calm the sensation, much as I would when awake (indeed, I'm doing it now [when I was writing the dream down] just from recalling the sensation). When it first happened I think it was a dream hand calming it, but I'm not so sure it was a dream throat.

Hi, fellow dreamers

Keelin, Linus and Laura

Thanks for your tips. I'll try them out. My next aim is to use the spinning technique to transform the environment. I tried the MILD exercise this morning, but didn't succeed. I have already been too awake.

Keep on good work

Ralf

P.S. Linus and Laura, very nice LDs. I think, if somebody read only these two dreams, he would certainly think of LD as worthwhile to try. I sometimes think about a kind of "advertisement page", containing a chosen few wonderful LDs. Maybe with pictures and music (like in Linus' LD). Wouldn't that be fine?

Just dreaming...

Kate

Thanks for your posting, too.

My OBE - like dream wasn't too frustrating. But what bothers me is that I didn't have enough awareness to stabilise it. I think it doesn't need "body separation", I just have to be lucid with a clear mind.

Kate, Barbara and Adastra

We had a discussion on the LD - OBE connection. There is a thread. I won't get too deep into it again. I think, there has been done reseach, and there is a lot of experience re many positions. OB - like experiences may be: Dreams, fantasies, autoscopy, perceptions of other realities, malfunctions of the brain due to low oxygen, correct perceptions of distant places /happenings / physical reality. Somehow I knew, that posting OBE - like dreams would cause a discussion. And I hesitated. It is not easy to use the right terminology regarding these experiences. But it is worthwhile keeping open - minded AND sceptical. It is worthwhile (at least for me) to go on and research these phenomenon. Working on these experiences means working on great questions of humanity. To say it simple: As long, as I don't have a proof, that an OBE - like experience contains anomalous (Psi) perception or is mutual / consensual, I say: This is a dream. That means: When I'm lucid and my mind is clear and I have the impression to be out, I try to prove it. So, I can only after the experience say: This one had anomalous perception. And: I still can't tell the experiential difference between an OBE and a lucid (flying) dream, that may include ESP, too. But that is only for me. Some experienced subjects say, there is a difference. The whole subject leaves me with more questions, than answers. Stephen LaBerge once questioned re OBE (as far as I remember): "What then does it mean to be IN -BODY?"

"Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really merely commonplaces of existence."

Sherlock Holmes to Dr. Watson

I found this quote in: Dean Radin, "The Conscious Universe", 1997

Sure, I can see the ad now: "Try lucid dreaming--you'll feel like someone is choking you!"

As for OBE's, I like what Stephen says in his first book (paraphrasing from memory): "If you think you're not dreaming when you have an OBE, try reading some text or looking at a digital clock."

Der Traum - Job 08122001 #NT #LT #DSA3 #Krankenhaus #Träumen #Spinning The dream - job I'm in the hospital. A square table. I'm speaking with closed eyes. As I open them half and half, I see my superior and a former colleague of mine (a superior, too) sitting on the left edge, staring at me. I say, I'm just dreaming and talking to someone in the dream, I'll be back soon. Close my eyes, listen to the voice and think: Now they must think, I've gone entirely crazy. I wonder, if they let me continue work in hospital. I open my eyes and look straight into their eyes. At that instance they fall asleep, both simultaneously. I'm surprised. I must be dreaming! I get up and walk to the window. I feel calm. I shortly look outside. The view is fuzzy. I turn around. The two have vanished, I'm alone. My mind is getting clearer. I perceive my movements are not free. I think I'm rather close to waking in physical body. I have to do something to prevent the physical awakening. So I engage the dreambody and walk and move my arms. It feels like moving my physical arms. But I keep on. The feeling of dreambody gets better. But the visual environment fades. I thought about the spinning task before. Now I do it. It starts like an electric jolt, flashing through my body. I'm surprised and think, I used to much willpower. I try to calm down. I see the blurry stripes, but soon perceive my physical body again. Comment: The success is, that I had a LD again. In fact a WILD with only a little gap between perception of physical body and dreambody. I'm getting better in having LDs at will in the morning hours. I wonder, if I actually moved my physical body while dreaming. I did it often in the last weeks. Seems, as if there is a change in physiology of dreaming and waking. Has anyone ever observed similar effects? Maybe I should interact with the dreamcharacters firstly. Maybe that would stabilise the dream. And maybe it had a meaning, that exactly these characters appeared. They are connected with my decision to start my own business as non - medical practitioner in the long run and this had effects on the intensity, with which I worked on LD, too. BTW: The day before yesterday was the Christmas celebration of the neurology department (where I work). Astrid and me sat on a table with the department's physiotherapists. The talks came to the subjects osteopathy and dreaming. Very interesting reactions: One did prefer to laugh about lucid dreaming and the strange books, I always read at work. One couldn't imagine, that lucid dreaming is even possible. One has had lucid dreams, one was simply open for the discussion, because she had a spiritual approach. Back to the subject: I seem to always disturb the run of the dream by focussing on experiments. Maybe I shouldn't care that much for dreambody or perception of physical body, but somehow stabilise the visual at first. Maybe I should try handrubbing. I think, I'm still too hasty. Too much willing the thing. What do you think?

@ Laura

Some people like the "chokey" feeling ;->

... and all of you

OBE- like: Of course you are right, Laura, and Stephen is right, too. When I had OBE - like dreams, have really been "out" and could test something, which has actually been the case two times, I saw, that there were flaws in the dream setting compared to physical reality. This is my small basis of experience so far. All my OB - like experiences felt rather dreamlike and took place in unknown or in comparison to physical reality rather altered environments. In the face of these facts I still want to keep an open mind, because the OB experienced subjects say, that they discern LD and OBE. I think, I am aware, and I want to stay aware of the great role, that my belief - system (BS), my semantic framework, plays in forming my experience. Relating to the sheep - goat effect in Psi - research one can say, that our abilities of (anomalous) perception depend on our BS. That means, transferred to the dreaming state: The degree in which we are able to perceive physical reality depends on our BS. And every LDer knows, how the ongoing dream strongly reacts on our expectations (in most cases). Regardless, whether the concept of astral body or being OB is correct or not, I think we have to stay aware, that our perceptions of physical reality in dreams may be correct, at least to a certain amount. What about the thought, that by will we change parts of the dream, that contain / represent anomalous perceptions? Who said, that these representations have to stay stable on our intention to morph them? It is like I said: I want to keep an open mind. I want to include and integrate as many important findings in my believe system, as I can. If I wanted to neglect the findings of neurology or psychology, the findings of Stephen and the LI, I wouldn't post in this forum and I wouldn't work in a neurology department. I very much admire this work, I admire the scientific and spiritual approach to LDing. It is a great benefit, that we can have discussions on LD on a high level, using the findings of LI.

I'm somewhat sorry, that I did go deeper into this subject. I sometimes wish, the nights experiences would be more simple to explain and to research and that consent may be more easy to be found. But that seems not to be the case. I'm not certain, whether this discussion is fruitful, at least at this point of time or this place. Some people react very strongly, when it comes to OBE or ESP. I don't want to insult anyone. And I'm happy, that we all exchange our experiences and thoughts here in the forum. Our exchange always encourages me to go deeper...

...into the light in day and night

Yours Ralf

Hi, Ralph, every(dream)body

These experiences are all interesting, whatever we call them! These days I find the distiction between Consensus Reality (CR) and Non-Consensus Reality (NCR) very useful. I've discussed this elsewhere in the forum. Basically, CR being the things most people agree on most of the time, and NCR being things that have little agreement.

OBE's and LD's are both clearly NCR experiences, though they have some CR correlates (activity in certain brain regions etc.) If someone picks up accurate data about the CR world in an NCR experience which they perceive as an OBE, that still wouldn't prove that they were actually outside their body.

For me the main point here is that NCR experiences are just as real, just as much a part of what the universe is doing, as CR. It's just that, by definition, we won't find much agreement on the nature of an NCR experience. It's more a question of, what did it mean to you, how did you experience it?

I love NCR experience, especially lucid dreams and OBEs and such! Let's have more of them! wheeeeeeee!

Hi, fellow dreamers. Barbara - I don't believe OBE's are possible because of thinking the mind couldn't invent such an event. I just feel, why not? Because I feel there's something in us that transcends the physical. I did read the Leberge book that came with my novadreamer. But my retention is patchy and subjective. Somehow the term "dreambody" I didn't connect with, so it didn't stay in my mind. But it is a very good term, really. How did the yoga in the night thing work out? I thought it might be particularly good since waking and then going back to sleep can be a good time for ld's. Personally, I have problems relaxing. Although not in my ld's. There never seems to be a feeling there of pressure, anxiety, physical illness, or anything like that. Linus - Do you think the black-haired man with the books may have represented your issues with school? He promised to tell you how things are, but wouldn't listen, and then just droned on. The idea of having a discussion with yourself I love. I hope I get the chance. I checked out luis Aroyo. He's a good fantasy artist, I see. But for my taste, a little too perfect. The picture of the woman on the stairs facing the big demon face reminded me of your female warrior dream. Adastra - I see ld's as a CR thing, inasmuchas I understand the terms CR and NCR. Even though every time I have an ld, I'm left with the feeling that it was really a regular dream. Can you recommend a book for the total layman about physiology of the brain? Thanks. Laura - I loved your dream about the house. I have had many nonld's of that kind, and I love the beautiful and strange items the mind can invent. Like your table. A house of many rooms was in both of my latest ld's, but I don't seem able to stay in the house. The scene changes on me, and I usually don't mind - I just go with the flow. But actually, I want the chance to stay in the house and explore. Maybe next time. Ralf - "I'm getting better in having LDs at will in the morning hours." Congratulations! Joy - Where are you?

Hi, Kate

I've been thinking about CR and NCR more since reading your comment yesterday. A lucid dream, in my opinion, is part of CR in the sense that we all agree that they exist, so it's part of our CR - here in the forum at any rate. But the lucid dreaming experience, it seems to me, is occuring in NCR, since we can't share it in the same way we could visit a museum or a cafe together. You can have a lucid dream and then later give me a report of it, and the report is part of CR, as are any brain measurements etc that might be made on a lucid dreamer while in that state; but your experience while lucid dreaming is intrinsically happening in NCR since none of us can be there with you or witness the dream itself.

Mutual dreaming, if it occurs, would blur this distinction quite a bit, since then two or more dreamers would be able to share the same dream. In that case I would say that the dreaming had become part of a CR for the people involved. But personally I've never had one (that I know of) so I'm provisionally skeptical about it...

Oh, and I can't really recommend a good book on brain psysiology, sorry. I haven't read anything recent except for bits and pieces of things and articles here and there. But I'd be really interested if someone else has a good recommendation.

Hi, Adastra. Now that you mention the part about not being able to share the ld experience with anyone, I see what you mean about it being an NCR. I was thinking, saying ld's were NCR meant that there was a question among some that the experience exists. And I think the LI has proven in a scientific way that it does. Besides, I've experienced it myself. That's all I need. Successful dreams, Kate

Hi - I'm here! I've been very busy and have just been ducking in here from time to time to see what everyone's saying. The discussion has encompassed my perspectives so I didn't feel compelled to add anything, and none of my LDs from this week struck me as being of general interest so I wasn't moved to post any (but see Attack of the Mango Woman under "Learning to LD- Helpful tips for getting started").

I've had mutual dreams. Elsewhere in this forum I offered to post one - the offer stands. But, you know, I could relate my own anecdotes until I'm blue in the screen and they wouldn't convert a skeptic, nor should they! - although they might help open the door for a provisional skeptic to experience the phenomenon himself.... For me, experiencing them opens the door to all manner of other wonderful possibilities.

Dream on, Joy

Hi, Joy. I wish I could say "...none of my ld's from this week." You seem to have a great frequency. Nice to hear from you. Kate

Hello Oneironauts:

Has anyone seen the film "Waking Life"

If not, make it a priority...

You will really be happy you did....

zzzzZZZZ( What happened to the Maui 2001 topic, Keelin?) z z z z z Joe

Hi Joe!

Re the Maui 2001 topic: Did you look twice? ;->

Check under "Open Conversation: Dreaming and Awakening May '01 @ Maui". I think you'll find us all still hovering about.

Tropical dreams forever! Keelin

Joy,

I for one would love to hear of your mutual dreaming experience(s). I think a good place to post it would be under the heading Synchronicity, Precognition, Remote Viewing, Space & Time, which is a sub-category of Research, Theory, and LI experiments. That is where I posted my "possible dream telepathy" experience some time ago.

If you decide not to post it, then please email it to me, I'd love to read about it.

Of course, anecdotal accounts won't convince a hardcore skeptic - and of course, they do not constitute proof - but they are at least suggestive; they are "things that make me go 'hmmm'." It's worth noting that reputable scientists once ridiculed absurd reports of hot stones falling from the sky, which flatly contradicted the crystal spheres paradigm of the day. Who's laughing now? Certainly not the dinosaurs.

Yeah, to me anecdotal evidence has an undeserved bad name - it's just swarming with testable hypotheses.

I'll post one or two, where you suggested -

Joy

Just thought I would mention quickly. I posted the same message in the Nova Dreamer section, but it might be that no one visits there anymore. I have a short report about the way my ND light cue appeared in a dream recently. I dreamed I was in a very tall tower, very dark and gothic with Vincent Price as a mad scientist and at a point in the first half of the dream there was a pulsing dark red light at the top of the tower. Very forboding and I knew it meant that one of VP's mad experiments would bring forth scarey stuff. I ran down stairs to beg him to stop all caught up in the gothic romance of it all. Cool dream, though I didn't recognize the cue! I have more interesting themed dreams when I use the Nova Dreamer.

:-))

Hi, Barbara. Great Gothic dream! Thanks for the tip about Novadreamer cues. Kate

Hello!

It seems as I've gotten into a LD-period. (Whieee!!!) As the one I had in the middle of October. Since last Thursday I've had eight lucid dreams, and several half lucid. As in one were I was at a big Tolkien based LARP and thought: "Wow, cool dream." Then I just continued the dream non-lucid, by some weird reason. I'm very satisfied of having so many lucid dreams, but the quality of the dreams haven't been high. Most of them have been rather short and my lucidity has stayed at a low rate. But I've done that rubbing hand thing a couple of more times. And it works really well both when it comes to prolonging the dream and increasing the awareness. I believe it's much easier to stay in your dream body if you get signals from it, like when you rub your hand creating sensation of touch. I've also tried that scene-changing technique of mine. I looked down on my arm but didn't find any control panel, only a enter button. I pretended there was one there anyway and typed in "mossgrift", then I hit enter. I looked up, but I was still at the same place. But it had changed. Now the forest around me was much closer, bigger and thicker. And now it was big old oaks and elms and such. Not little alders, birches and pine trees as before. And now they were all dressed in the colours of fall. Red, orange, yellow that is. The trees also had this magical, glittering light over them, as a sort of guardian spirit. Maybe a forest protected by elves? Then it was at least a step in the right direction. I'll try it again.

Now I'm about to go to bed. Tomorrow I'll read what have been said here on the forum since last time I was here, which is a weak ago. Because last Friday my computer died. It took me the whole weekend to bring it back to life again. And then it have been so much in school to do, so I haven't had time to read what have been said here...

Good night!

Hi, fellow dreamers. Surely someone has had a lucid dream lately? Or an intriguing nonlucid? I need some inspiration! Sweet dreams, Kate

Okay - this is from last night - hope it'll inspire or at least amuse!

As well as I can remember, I was busy doing something interesting that involved a lot of small objects when I heard a loud snore. Assuming the snore was my own, I realized I might be asleep and dreaming. Great! I took off and, sure enough, flew - definitely dreaming.

I still had all those objects in my hands, and since it was a dream and they weren't real I figured I could drop them all for ease of flying, but after dropping a few I thought maybe I'd like to hold onto some because I liked the realistic feel of them in my hands for their dream-retaining value. Noticing I was flying with swimming motions, I considered trying other styles but when I stopped swimming I coasted to a halt, and so I just went along with it and happily swam through the air.

I was flying over a grassy rural landscape with a few spreading, broad-leafed trees. Everything was very dim and gray and out-of-focus. Was I having a problem with visual vividness? It was as if I were seeing through a fog. I looked at my hands; they were bright and vivid. I concluded that it was indeed foggy - something I don't often see at home in the desert.

I looked around for detail to keep my attention. I could see, through the leaves, a man working with a horse under one of the trees. I'd flown on past when it occurred to me that I'd like to interact with some dream people. I spotted some activity beneath a tree up ahead and, brushing the treetop, came in for a landing.

An old man and old woman were tending a chicken coop. The man wore a baggy shirt and pants; the woman had a long skirt and head scarf. What would I say to them? All I could think of was the last thing I'd asked a dream character: "Can you tell me how to stay in the dream?" - but I wasn't having trouble staying in dreams lately, and didn't want to bother them with inane questions. I picked up a seed packet with a glossy picture of a hen and chicks, thinking it ought to be interesting to try to read the label and see if it changed. Not only did the letters move around, but it was in some language that looked to me like it would be from eastern Europe, and I couldn't read it at all. It was fun watching the letters change places. The old people, speaking in accented English, offered me a chicken. I politely declined.

I thought I'd like to find some more people, and next thing I remember, I was in a room full of them - mostly dark-haired, young to middle-aged men. Some kind of informal meeting was taking place. I listened to the discussion with interest; I remember noting with amusement that it was no more intelligible to me than the seed packet, but it seemed I knew what was going on anyway. After a long time of just sitting and listening I thought, "Am I still lucid?" and looked down at my hands and the objects I sill held, as a test of volition.

There was another loud snore and I woke in a bedroom in my childhood home, with my mom in the next bed over. Was I really awake? I was wearing my old blue dress which I recognized as real and thought I remembered having worn to bed; it looked perfectly real, spread out around me; and I remembered having had a conversation with my mom. I could hear children in the living room, and thinking I didn't want to miss anything, I jumped out of bed to join them. But then I thought I should have tried to recall all of the dream before getting up, and with that thought I was snapped back to the dream-body in the dream-bed as if by a rubber band!

I thought, "Wow - I guess I'm sill dreaming! Maybe I should continue." But the snoring was still going on, I realized it was not me but K all along, I became aware of my real body in its real bed and real children in my real living room, and I had the feeling I'd forgotten what went on in the meeting already and I'd better do my recall. So I woke.

I never did remember any more details of the meeting and in retrospect I realized that they probably were speaking an unfamiliar language and that was why it reminded me of trying to read the seed packet. It wasn't until a while after waking that I put all the separate odd elements together and noticed that the whole dream had presented a fairly cohesive and plausible scene from rural eastern Europe. Funny how I went through the whole thing noticing details and missing the bigger picture!

Sweet dreams - no, wait, too much sweet stuff around here lately -

Spicy dreams,

Joy

Sunday, 23. December 2001

Hi Kate and Joy and fellow lucid dreamers

Before bed (at 0116) I thought of Kate's request for some inspiring LD. I don't know whether mine really are, but I'll post them nonetheless, because Kate's wish was part of my motivation. I set intention to consciously and focussed dive into the sea of dreams and to remember to recognise, that I'm dreaming. I put on the ND mask and have a rather unfocussed 61 points exercise. But I didn't force it too much, I just tried to maintain minimal awareness or to "automatically" regain it. This worked for some time. Next thing I remember is the ND wake alarm (at 0445). I simply quit it and set a 20 minutes delay. Then later:

Krieg und Bäume 23122001 #NT #LT #DSA3 #Spinning #Gewalt #Baum #Papa #Familie #Fliegen

War and trees I'm on patrol with a fellow soldier. He detects some movement in a hedge 200 m off. He points with his gun and shoots, while I'm feeling somewhat depressed and alarmed, because I didn't notice anything. I could have been shot. The enemies shoot back, I'm not sure, if somebody has been hit. I have a pistol and lift it to be ready for the worst case. My comrade follows our premier direction, up road. I decide to turn around, because it is too dangerous here. Here are some trees at the side of the road. I feel safer. A civilian, a young man, on a bike comes from behind. I point my pistol at him, but don't shoot. He seems to be no danger. (Note: The scene reminds me of a German anti war film, I saw years ago). I go on. I see cut down trees. That is remarkable. I want my father to see this. I think it must have been a long time ago, when the trees were cut. A pictured story overlays the scene: How the Russians cut down and carry away nearly all trees in Europe, while they are occupying one country after the other during WW2. (Note: My fathers ancestors were German Russians, my fathers family flew, when the Red Army came (back), my father was born during the flight 1941, he didn't fight in this war). Somehow my father is identified with the Russian Army in this pictured story, he is performing a real ravage. When the story (film) is over, I try to get an overview. I lift myself to a flight. This is when I recognise, that I'm dreaming. Just enough time to short and deeply enjoy the flying ecstasy and the depressing outlook on a deserted land with chopped down trees before I awake. I try spinning, but it doesn't work. I don't get up, don't write down the dream, but remember my position and the nostril laterality and go on sleeping. Comment: Besides the historical dimension this one may relate to a struggle I had with my father the day before yesterday. Lately we have some controlled "skirmishes" (like in the beginning of the dream), although I'm not really sure, why we do so or if I do want it this way. The dream seems to show that the reason is a greater conflict, we had in the past, that showed me, that I'm much more emotional regarding our relationship, than I was aware in the past years. But I won't get to deep into interpreting. It is just to show the links of day and night. And this dream shows, that it is good to get an overview, it is sometimes good to dissolve, to retreat from the situation. In this case I recognise the amount of depression that lies in war, in the deserted landscape of our relation. It is discussed, that flying is a way to avoid things. Especially the Freudian school of dream interpretation rather restricts the flying thing as a symbol for sexual activity. Some psychoanalysts think, that lucid dreamers avoid facing certain conflicts by flying away (or magical changing the environment). In some cases they may be right. But in this case flying has been initial the (unconscious, non lucid) impulse to get an overview, that is a way to gain new insights. And the insight was depressing. I mean, I did FACE my shadow, I didn't FLEE it. And the flying experience was ecstatic, once lucid. Freud was right in saying, that flying has a sexual attitude. But I think he was wrong in restricting humans to the lower levels of existence. Flying is a good example for comparing different schools and worldviews regarding dreams.

Ca. an hour later around 0800:

Das luzide Netzwerk 23082001 #NT #LT #DSA3 #Falsches Erwachen #Prolonging

The lucid dreaming web I'm in a house somewhere. I just got up to have breakfast. Some people are there. It is still dark. That is what I think. But the others tell me, it is late afternoon. That is strange. I'm recognising, that I had a false awakening and I'm still dreaming. Immediately I look around and keep moving (like Linus did once suggest). The dream tends to fade, but every time I look around a new corner, there is something to see (like in Joy's LD). After looking around some corners, I get to a room with a window facing the street. This time I don't hesitate (like in one of my last LDs), but follow what I think is the plot and jump out of the window. I have no fear. I awake, before I touch the ground. Satisfied that I could prolong lucidity (I'm humbled these days) and satisfied, that I had two lucids in one night. I don't disturb my sleep too much, note the things for LI - experiment, go on sleeping and have another (non lucid) dream. Comment: That is what I wrote yesterday: I profit by participating in the forum. That is the very special mood, that LD sometimes brings: It is, that your ideas and experiences are present in my mind and actually my dream is made up by your ideas. I very like this feeling of being deeply linked to our community of lucid dreamers. My Astrid says, I've been very turbulent this night. I still suspect, that something physiological has changed. I still wonder, why my lucid dreams are that unstable in the last months. I seem to be too awake (physically). Should I include expressions like: "My body sleeps well, while my mind stays awake" in my pre - sleep intention?

Hope this is some food for the brain, the stomach will have enough the next days.

Uplifting LDs for you all. I hope to have more in the holidays, although I work in hospital during Christmas.

Yours Ralf

Hi there!

A few days ago I had two lucid dreams. Both rather long and stable, not too lucid though. The first one ended a gigantic science fiction epos that I was a part in. One of the longest dreams I've ever had. After a few weird acts which certainly did not fit in reality I was transferred to my house. Now I was lucid. I did a lot of stuff. Fooled around with my dream companions, flew a little, and I tested a new reality check I've begun using. The last weeks I've tested reality by checking if the light switch works. But the test has turned out to be a total flop. Because I've done it several times in my dreams, and all times it have malfunctioned in pretty obvious ways. Still I've been able to explain them some how. And I soon got tiered of those ridiculous occurrences. I mean: "Oh. I better check if this is a dream. I try to turn on the lamp. boom Ops. The computer exploded and the lamp is still off. Hm... I guess it's just something wrong with the power grid." Argh... So I begun thinking of what would be a waterproof reality check. And so I thought. What can't be explained? What would be so obvious that I not possible can deny it's a dream? Hm. Something with the gravitation maybe? So this is my new reality check: I target an object 10-15 metres away and try to jump to it. If I succeed it's most definitely a dream. Because I can't possible jump 15 meters in reality! And when I tried it in the dream it worked exactly as I had thought. I landed on the exact spot which I had target. After a while I began a rather animated discussing with a dream character. A little too animated discussion, because soon I forgot it was a dream. And when I once again remembered it I woke up.

Shortly thereafter I was back in the dream though, and almost at the same place where I had left it. I flew around a little. Then I did something fun. Something I think I've been talking about before. Setting up games. I explained to the two dream characters, who was with me, that it was only a dream. I explained how the dream world function and so on. I knew I was talking to myself but I thought this was the best way to make them do as I wanted. I told them to steel a car each and hunt me. I told them they could behave as maniacs because it was impossible to get hurt in this world. Then I stole a car myself and speeded of. Very fun. But my car broke down after a while and I tried to crash it. Sadly I didn't succeed. I just drove it down in a ditch in a very undramatic way. One of my friends though, he managed to do what I had wanted to do. When I stepped out of my car I saw him behind me. His car skidded, hit a pile of stocks and flew like 20 meters before it crashed into a tree. When I went to se how he was he just laughed. I thanked him for doing as I had told. Then I flew away.

Later on I remembered what I had decided to do before I went to bed. I had decided to try to cure myself. I've gotten a cold you now. In the dream I thought something like: "Oh divined spirit, fill me up and cure me." I took a deep breath and for a short second I felt like a soft electrical tension all over my body. When I later woke up I was still sick. But today I feel pretty well. I still doubt it had anything to do with my lucid dream. It was fun though.

Now I have holiday and I can sleep as much as I want. No school. Ahh... I hope I have many lucid dreams.

Merry Christmas everyone!

Hi, fellow dreambodies. Thanks for your lucid offerings. I enjoyed them in a very liesurely way. It was great. I posted a reply on open conversation/comments and conversation if anyone's interested. To lucidity and it's full promise, Kate

Hello!

Ahhh... It's sooo nice with holiday! I enjoy every second. And I've dreamed so much! Two lucid dreams the last week (one containing a short dialogue with a dead cow). Sure, I had hoped for more, but still, I have two rather then none. And the amount of non lucid high quality dreams compensate the lack of more lucid dreams.

I can't understand my brain. It just keeps impressing me. My dreams are masterpiece movies. In a dream some days ago I believe I played four different roles, jumping back and forth between them. My dreams are full of perfect tracking, skilled cutting, impressing scripts etc. They even have all the latest special effects. I mean perfect sound, the best music you can find, amazing lighting effects, wonderful scene work. It's... arhh!!! It's so incredible! Yesterday I dreamed me through at least half of Alice in Wonderland. And the day before that I dreamed parts of the Fellowship of the Ring again. I played Frodo at first but after a while I left him and took the role of Sam instead. Yesterday I also dreamed an episode of the X-files. Pretty scary, but so fun!

I also have a little question for all of you. That our muscles are paralysed while dreaming I think most of us can agree to. But still, if you move your eyes in a dream you do it in reality too. And when you do thrilling actives and similar your pulse rise, and your breath are also influenced, right? So this is my question: If you hold your breath in a dream, or if you breathe quickly, do you do it in reality too?

Hm... I guess I have to explain that thing with the dead cow. Otherwise you'll just go around pondering about it. Well, my lucid dream had just begun. I was at the school yard of my old school. I looked down on my arm but didn't find the control panel I was looking for. Instead I thought: "Well, I just start walking some direction and see what my mind give me." When turning around the corner of a house shortly thereafter I found a big cow lying on the ground. I thought: "Ha! I wonder why my brain put a dead cow there." Then it opened its eyes and ogled on me saying: "Aaaa! Can't you see I'm dead. Leave me alone!" And so I continued. 10-15 seconds later I tried to explain for someone, don't remember who, the different between gooseberries and currant. But I mixed them up and (as a punishment maybe?) I woke up.

A happy new year to everyone!

Go Linus!

Linus, you do have great dreams. Your talking dead cow is hilarious. Thanks for telling us about it! You were right: I would have gone around pondering.

Here's a light, flaky bit of sweet dream for you all:

I got to bed late and woke early with a cat jumping on the bed and meowing naggingly - not the long-haired calico who usually does this, but another. I figured the only way to sleep would be if I managed to incorporate the meowing into a dream....

Recall begins with my 19-year-old son (who's home on winter break) in my bedroom asking rather complainingly if I was going to get groceries today. Then the long-haired calico cat, sitting on the bedside table, began asking in a whining cat voice if I was going to be getting more cat food any time soon. Strange. I went to the kitchen, found my son there and asked, "Did you want me to go to the store?"

"No!" he said as if annoyed, and reminded me that he was leaving on a camping trip today (which is true).

Hmmm, I thought - guess I must have been dreaming. Talking cat. Yup, dreaming. Probably still dreaming now.

The layout of my house was the same as in real life. I wandered into the utility room which serves as a pantry. Someone had been telling me about a new kind of date bars that were really good. I found two left in an opened package and tried one; it had a light flaky crust and rich, sweet, gooey interior. Yum! Much better than Fig Newtons. I thought I remembered Kate on the LI forum had asked if they would be named for her. Date Kates? ....

(This dream went on for a while but wasn't too interesting - I should have hired Linus' script writer. This is the first time I remember finding that my dream sense of taste could be as vivid as visual, audial and tactile - I wonder about smell? Anyone have vivid smells in your dream that you couldn't trace to, for instance, the person sleeping next to you?)

Joy

Joy - I seldom sleep with people who smell, but that's just me. Seriously, I don't recall the sense of smell in dreams, but I'm sure we could make that happen. It certainly means a lot to me in waking life. (I'm becoming more in tune with the idea that waking life is really the dream, by the way.) Anyway, I've read that the sense of smell is the most evocative. And it seems that way to me. The smell of pipe tobacco used to call up the sense of my one grandfather, whom I can't really recall with any of the other senses. I really miss the 4 seasons of the northeast, where I grew up. The smell of burning leaves in fall, and wet leaves, wet earth, ozone before a summer thunderstorm, and the sharp smell of snow. So many natural scents. But the desert has a lot of good smells, especially sage in the sun. I'm so excited that you had me (in a sense) in a dream! I'm noticing in the Robert Moss book, and actually in past readings, the use of puns and things like that in dreams. I've never really understood why dreams have to resort to things like puns and symbolism, instead of getting to the point. In reading about dream groups, it occurs to me that maybe the difficulty in personal dream interpretation is for the purpose of making people interact with each other in their search for understanding. But I'm sure there's more to it than that. None of my cats are insane, so that may account for the fact that they are absolutely useless in promoting lucidity. Usually, when I'm alone, I throw them out of the bedroom because they wake me up with no useful consequences. It seems to me, in my reading on the forum, that we can experience whatever sense we want, if we beleive enough and/or are interested enough. (In reference to taste.) It seems as if almost everything from waking life can be experienced. Yes, Linus's dreams are amazing. But yours are just as imaginative. I hope I'm not failing to ld because of some foolish ego thing about how my lucids aren't as interesting as some. All I want to do is just ld', whatever the dreams turn out to be. And speaking of dates, I recall from my childhood something about dates showing up as a treat at Christmastime in my family as a child, and my thinking of them as highly exotic - like persimmons - and I always recalled the taste. Also, there is a recurring theme in my dreams about a pantry that I seem to find fascinating, in the way that a child can find a room or a place fascinating. I have no idea what it means, but I thought of it when you mentioned a pantry in your place. I Like the idea of little alcoves, and side rooms, and even secret rooms. And speaking of talking cats, I'm doing a painting of the normally cat and enjoying it. It's a dreamscape, with eyes in the hills and streams that are snakes. Thanks for the inspiration, and wishing everyone lucidity on a regular basis, Kate

Heeey! "I hope I'm not failing to ld because of some foolish ego thing about how my lucids aren't as interesting as some." I certainly hope not. If so I'll stop telling about mine... Now you listen to me. Tonight you'll be lucid! And that's an order. If you're in a dream thinking it's reality, then you can bet I'll be there telling you it isn't. Okey?

Hm... Anyway, I think the only way to really find out if you can control your breathing while asleep is to test it. I'm doubtful you can control it, but it would still be fun to know. Next time I have a lucid dream I'll hold my breath. But the thing is, if I'm wrong, if I really do it in reality too, what happen then? I mean when I'm out of air. Do I wake up? Do I pass out? Hmm... I guess the future will tell.

Linus - Thanks! I hope it works. And please don't stop posting your ld's. All the dreams I read are inspiring. If I do have an ego issue re ld's, I need to work it out, not be coddled. Submissively, Kate

Interesting, my "ego thing" about LDs is that I don't want to post so many that I feel as if I'm "showing off" - I can almost feel the flow of dreams squeezing off when I let my ego have the driver's seat. For me most of all this exploration of consciousness takes place in a private realm and I like knowing within a dream that I may or may not choose to describe it to you all! Kate, I think having one tonight is a good idea too - I'll be there with Linus reminding you to take notice. From there on, dream whatever you want without wondering if anyone else is going to think it's interesting!

Looking forward to seeing your "normally" painting!

Hay, Linus, I think I read some discussion about holding your breath somewhere in the forum, from a long time ago .... Anyone remember where to look for that?

Joy

Last night I had a short LD. I was in a NLD in a large school with many floors. I was trying to accomplish something or find something--I don't remember what. I went out of doors and it was dark. I did not feel that the neighborhood was safe so I went back indoors, and up a couple floors. I encountered two young girls (one blond and one dark-haired) and an older man who was in the background holding something large. Somehow seeing the girls prompted me to realize that I was dreaming. I tried to communicate with the girls and tell them that I was lucid dreaming. Their affect was bright and cheerful, but we did not seem to communicate or share meaning. I thought to myself, and perhaps said aloud, "I want to remember that I lucid dreamed," and I began walking towards the older man. I think that the dream continued as an NLD. I cannot say what led me to lose lucidity as I often can when I lose an LD (usually it is getting caught up in an emotion or a willful conflict.) I think that my energy level was low and my energy ran out. Usually when I realize that I am lucid, I feel a lot of excitement, but this time I did not. It was much milder.

Hihihohohaha!

Six long, stable and wonderful lucid dreams in one night, could I have a more perfect end on my Christmas holiday? I doubt it... I still can't understand how I managed to struggle my way back into the dream again and again. I lost the dream, woke up and everything. But every time I laid there not moving a finger. I just cleared my mind and tried to find my dream hands somewhere in there, in the big black void inside my head. And when I did it I rubbed them as a maniac, and soon I was back at the same place where I had left. It felt as if I could have continued for centuries doing that. But after losing my dream for the sixth time I didn't wan't to risk falling back to sleep non-lucid, being asleep for hours before waking up again. I feared that if so I would maybe forget many details from the dreams I just had. So after waking up for the sixth time I moved and wrote them down. But I'm sure that if I had wanted I would have been able to get back in the dream a seventh time, and maybe an eighth thereafter. If I hadn't moved I mean.

I know the "play dead and don't move a finger"- technique is useful, it have been successful before. But combining it with the "rubbing hand"-technique was brilliant. (I feel like a genius. smiles)

All the dreams were pretty long and stable and I had time to do a lot of stuff. I did several different reality tests, just to check how they failed. I flew a little, as always. I didn't remember my village, to hold my breath, or that I should try to plays drums (another thing I've decided to do). I just watched different details, examined things, tried to find odd things etc. But the world was perfect, nothing to complain on. And on that "Sexuality, and experiences in lucid dreams"-topic I can mention that I tried to get Sandra Nasic (the marvellous singer in Guano Apes) into my dream. But well, it wasn't a total failure, but it wasn't a splendid success either. I'll try it again...

The last dream was the best one, then I broke into a very luxury home. I was really cool. A litte "aquarium shop-like", or jungle like. Ehh... What I mean is that it was very warm and damp, a lot of plants, spotlights, aquariums everywhere, filled with exotic fishes etc. I even considered trying to dive into one of the aquariums transforming into a fish, but it sounded to hard, so I changed my mind. But now I wish I had tried it, well, I guess it'll come other chances. They had this big waterfall in one corner too. I touched the warm water and bathed my face. It was as real as it can possible be, without being really real that is... Hm... Well, I think you get what I mean. I even found a half alligator in one aquarium. I thought it was rather weird it was still alive. Maybe I should have asked him what had happened. Hm...

Argh... And in seven hours I'll be in school. Whieee!!! I can't contain myself... It's so fun learning so much useful things from so educated and pedagogic teachers. And I mean, what would you do if you weren't in school? Maybe being creative, learning things you want to learn, or maybe even having fun! What a gruesome thought! Oh... I just love school.

(P.S. Anyone ever heard of irony?)

Hi, fellow dreambodies. Any lucid dreams to report? Even a fragment would be good to hear about. I'm sure someone out there is flying, or transforming, or exploring, or somehow enjoying that other world. Sweet dreams, Kate

I've been flying backwards with my eyes closed,

Joy

Thursday, 10. January 2002

Mein Traumtor 10012002 #NT #LT #DSA2 #Maui #Badendorf #Lübeck #Tor #Fliegen #Wasser #Mauer #Angst #Körper #Keelin #Joy #Hermine My dreamgate I'm on my way from Badendorf to Luebeck, just short before the little hill, called "Windberg". A traffic sign warns, that there is a gate on the top of the hill limiting the height of cars to pass to five meters or so. The sign shows a strange form of the gate. (I saw one yesterday evening, as I browsed www.amazon.de for books on lucid dreaming and found one on the cover of Robert Moss: "Dreamgates"). And there, on the top of the hill is this gate. I know, it doesn't belong here. I walk through and next thing I remember is, that find myself having a birds view on an extended facility, made of large, light brown bricks. Its purpose seems to be to control the water. There is but a tiny rill flowing through the facility (from Badendorf to Luebeck). That is all, that is left after huge watergates have dammed up the river. I see the "everyday" road leading through the facility and wonder, why I never explored the side streets. (This has been my way to school and to the city for more than a decade. My mother still lives in Badendorf.). Now I discover, that I'm standing on a thin wall some meters above a roof or the surface of the hill on my left side. On my right side, deep below me (maybe 50 meters) is the water (which is now running faster and the stream is broader), running over the bricks in this channel. I think, I will go down and see, what is going on there. I am afraid to fall. And I know, I'm dreaming. I know, I could jump without being hurt. I think, maybe I would loose the dream, when I simply jump, like in one of my last LD, where I awoke before hitting the ground. I would very like to jump and fly and part of me is still afraid to fall. I look for different ways. There is an open window below me on the right side. I could step on the wing and reach the down ? pipe of a gutter, then climb down. That would be cowardly. And the question is, if I would loose the dream while going down. While standing on the wing, it somehow loosens. I repair it, thinking, that I should really reduce my weight. And I think, that this is no safe way to go down. I decide to jump down the few meters to the left side and try another way. Done that, I do a gentle flying training, it is safer here. Someone of the forum is with me. Some woman. I'm not sure, maybe Keelin, Joy or Hermine. I can't remember, if she had done something. My mistake seems to be, that I close my eyes. Everything turns black and grey. I can't lift myself up, my feet still touch the ground. I feel my right foot loosing contact to the ground, it must be, because I'm standing on the edge. One step further and I fall down. I'm not that afraid, but decide to use a position lying on my back to succeed in flying. Now I finally loose the tactile sense, too. There is nothing more to feel or see now. I awake in physical body.

Comment: This one goes deep for me. The spontaneous impression was: This one relates to why my lucid dreams are so short in the last months. It is a kind of slow - motion fading, not so fast, as in other LDs. And dreamscape and my behaviour do parallel in a way: The dreamscape is the desire to control, turned to a stone - made facility. It shows a relation to my adolescence (that was the time, when I moved from Badendorf to Luebeck). On the way I learned to control my emotions, so that the (my) great and intense flow of life turned to a tiny rill. I feared my emotions, they were too overwhelming. I very well remember this time. My way to react was to fear and to control. And this is what I (the lucid dream - ego) do: I fear and try to control the flow of the dream. I exclude more and more dream - qualities, until there is nothing left. And I finally awake in physical body. There are possible solutions to my fears in the dream: The window and the down pipe offer a way to stay in the dream's flow and to prevent awakening due to fear. But I'm too proud, I won't admit my fear. I dismiss the offer. Another help seems to be offered by the forum woman (whoever she is). Reminds me of the Tibetan dreamers advice to call "Dakinis" to help create security. All of the three women I mentioned are giving good examples how to go with the flow of dreams, seemingly without fear, but they do have control, too. In a relaxation exercise some days later I imagined myself opening the watergates and I watched, as life did spread in the former inanimate facility. That felt good.

Hi, Ralf. Thanks for the report. I also read your postings on the Maui May site. Fascinating, and I particularly liked your adding your analysis at the end of some of the dreams. I was struck by the part about how you work hard, but your ld's aren't lasting as well, but the woman(Hermine?) was abducted in her dream and immediately became lucid. That struck me personally, because of my failure for some time to ld, and my continuing efforts to "let go" in pursuit of ld'ing. Also you talked about wanting to control as a coping mechanism based on fear. Similar issues come up for me in terms of my learning how to "let go." The three women are able to go with the flow of the dreams without fear, but they do have control - or, they are not helpless? That's what that meant to me, personally. And that's something I'm working on. That gets into higher power issues for me, and I won't get heavily into that because that's not what the forum is about. On the other hand, dreams, lucid or otherwise, are about spiritual and/or pschological development. Anyway, the idea of letting go, having no fear because of trust, or faith, or just being freed from the fear monster, is what your dream made me think of. That letting go doesn't mean losing identity and autonomy, but actually gaining it. The three wise women? Maybe for you, the fact they are women has to do with going with the "feminine" traits of intuition, etc. Just a thought. This reminds me of a nonlucid I thought about posting that to me may represent thoughts I have that would keep me from ld'ing. I'll post it on some site and perhaps you'll have time to comment. Have to go to work now - for some reason they like me to be on time. Thanks again, Kate

Dear Kate

Thanks for your interest. I always wondered, why I seem to be the only one with this tendency of fear or resistance regarding lucid dreaming. I just thought: OK. That is my part. Although it wasn't easy to see myself as the great exception. I couldn't believe it. Fascination is an ambivalent feeling: Interest and fear. Approaching and evading. I've learned to touch spiders, take them in hand. They fascinated me. At first I only feared to touch them. Then I was interested. Then I came closer and finally could let them crawl on my arms without shivering. But it is controlling my emotions, rather than really "embracing". Only years later I felt something like compassion with spiders. Today it hurts me, when someone squashes a spider. The same counts for my fascination of dreams and similar strange things like ESP (or girls ;->): At first I shivered on the thought of the immense great, boundless reality, that showed up in myself. I felt lost, or, like you express it: Helpless. And then I learned to control. But this reduced the great flow of life to this tiny rill. In the last ten years or so I work on getting into the flow again. Lucid dreaming is the focus, the motor of this work in the last three years. Today I am closer to the fascinating and overwhelming mysteries I experienced in my youth, than I ever expected, I would come. This is certainly encouraging. And still there are many rivers to cross...

Get into the lucid flow

Yours Ralf

Here's the last lucid dream I've had, dated 3rd November, 2001.

After having briefly awoken in the middle of the night and then laying back down to sleep, I retain full consciousness while I drift into a dream. Mind you, this is only one of three successes at lucid dreaming I've ever had, so I am by no means an expert. At first all there is is darkness, my eyes are closed. Then, shimmering to life in a bubbling blur, a landscape appears before me and I know instantly that I am fully asleep, fully dreaming and fully aware. As stated above I have had lucid dreams (albiet few) though never have I gone completely from the waking state and directly into lucidity - nor did I think I would ever be able to achieve a lucid dream in this fashion. For me, this was amazing, and it was this enthrallment in the whole situation which spoiled the moment for me. Allow me to expound...

As if high atop a mountain, or high in the air without the sensation of flight, I see a lush green landscape far below. Animals dot the scenery on the ground, perhaps giraffe - I cannot recall which. This whole event has only lasted literally a moment as I begin to think "Now that I am dreaming and lucid, will I be able to refrain from waking?" At that very instant my entire vision goes black and I have awoken, in my bed.

I think one of the best ways to achieve lucidity is to wake up in the middle of the night, only for a little while. In the morning, when I am dreaming the most, I am just too prone to be unable to fall back asleep, where as in the middle of the night no matter how excited about a dream I am, I will be able resume my slumber sooner or later.

Fenrir

Fenrir- Thanks for sharing that experience. It sounds like you went into the hypnogogic state and then instantly into a dream. I think staying calm once lucid comes pretty easily to most ld'ers. Since you are conscious, you can remember to just relax and let the dream take you. Good luck with this. Ralf - Good point, about the difference between controlling your fear of spiders, and actually embracing their "spiderness" and appreciating them as life forms. It reminds me of the concept, discussed by S Laberge, of confronting nightmare characters with love and so disarming and transforming them. Excellent analogy your dreaming mind came up with of the flow of life reduced to a rill. I've always loved brooks, but that probably doesn't symbolize a narrow band of receptiveness on my part. But then again, maybe it does... Something for me to think about. Anyway, I'm posting the nonlucid I mentioned on the lerning ld/helpful tips site. Appropriate, since I seem to be back at square one. I would welcome your comments. May spiders and giraffes awaken us to our possibilities, Kate

Thanks for the reply Kate,

I think I altogether skipped the hypnogogic phase completely, either that or it lasted a millisecond. Because I went straight into a full fledged dream nearly at the onset of sleep.

Either way it was a fascinating experience for me. Hopefully I'll have another one to post here soon.

-Fenrir

Ralf,

I'm totally delighted to be among your dakinis!

Joy

Hi, Fenrir. You would know, whether you were in the hypnogogic state or not, I would think. I thought of that simply because you mentioned the scene "bubbling" into existence, and I'd read about scenes forming in the hypno. state, and people being able to enter the scenes, and so lucid dream from there. I've personally never heard of your experience before, but I'm not experienced either. It sounds wonderful, anyway. And I try to do that - to be conscious and somehow retain some aspect of that as I fall asleep, so I can have that intention strongly in my mind for when I start dreaming. But so far I can't do that. Once I fall asleep I have no control. Unless I become lucid. And then it's only control within the dream - the dream forms itself. Which is fine with me. It's kind of fun that way - to just fall asleep and have no idea what experiences you'll wake up recalling. Kind of like, will I give myself the gift of an ld, and what will it be like? Like Christmas morning. But that's too random. If you have any tips on how you were able to take your consciousness with you into the dream state, please share them. My experiment for now is going to be to think a lot about a place in the Adirondaks that I'd love to be in, during the day, and to every night have a strong intention about going there in the dream state as I go to sleep. I'll see how that goes. Ralf, re your dreams and my personal interpretation about embracing the "feminine" side, it also occured to me that when you were stroking the face of the dark-haired girl, you were emracing your "feminine" side. An integration process. This is just my own impression, of course. Just a thought. What do you think? If you care to answer, I guess we could go to a conversation site? Lucidly, Kate

ps to Ralf - If I've opened up a can of worms, feel free to just dump them out into the garden. Kate

Hi there everyone! I hope you've been sleeping well!

Hmm... January has started of really well for me. So far I've had 15-16 lucid dreams. But except those six dreams I had the night before school started they've all been pretty short and not too lucid, sadly. I played drums in one dream, but it wasn't any special about it. And I actually succeeded to get Sandra Nasic (the signer in Guano Apes, if you've forgotten) into one dream. Something I'm pretty satisfied with. Except these two successes I haven't done anything sensible. But the trend with short and unstable LD's fortunately ended this morning...

I had been dreaming for quite a while. I was down in a basement with a couple of others. We sat on a snow-mobile each. It seemed as we were about to start some kind of survival trip or similar. One guy, the guide I guess, was talking about how fun it was going to be. That we were about to learn how to survive up in these deep forests wintertime, that we would sit around the campfire telling stories and such. I wasn't prepared. I didn't have any equipment or anything. Not even a proper winter jacket. But I didn't really care. I was sure things would work out anyway. But then this guide changed and begun talking about how serious this was. That it wasn't a vacation at all. And now I became a little anxious. But it was just getting worse. He told us that there were only room for two in the hut we would spend the night in. So six of us had to spend the night outside. I didn't have a sleeping bag. I knew I would freeze to death. And so I stood up and thought: "Well to hell with this, they can't force me to go with them. I just leave right now." The second thereafter another thought bubble up: "No, why leave? I know this must be a dream. Of course I should stay."

And so I was lucid. Somewhere in the middle of the scene the basement had disappeared and been replaced by a glade in a snow-covered forest. I rubbed my hands and remembered my village. (Mossgrift you know. The village I've been talking about since the summer.) I asked the nearest guy in which direction I could find Mossgrift. (Asking for the direction worked with Leonardo da Vinci's workshop.) But he was just babbling on with the guide, ignoring me. I tapped his shoulder thinking: "Poor little dream character. Not knowing what's best for him." But I didn't do anything nasty, instead I went on asking another guy. In the same moment I saw a track leading out in the woods. The snow was gone now and it was summer. I knew that was the track I should follow but I waited for the guy to answer anyway. He mumbled quietly while looking around in a weird way. I was just about to leave him when I pointed in the direction of the track. I skip a few weird occurrences here if you don't mind.

Well, the track went uphill. I crossed a little brook and soon I saw the piling being the village wall. Instead of following the track leading to the main gate on the other side, I ran up the steep slope and went through a hole in the wall. But there were no village, not anymore at least. The ground was scorched black and it was only a few ruins left of the houses. I went through the village looking on what was left of the houses. I wondered who had done this. On the other side of the village I found a torrent. It looked wild and threatening. The sunlight had slowly disappeared and the dusk had set in. The earlier blue sky was now covered with scattered grey clouds. There was a sort of ominous tension in the air. As if a giant thunderstorm was about to brake out. I scratched a little on a wooden wall once being part of a house. The soot made my fingers black.

Suddenly I heard a woman's cry for help. I looked up and caught a glimpse of a girl further of between the ruins. I rushed of to her. She was very beautiful, short but with long black hair reaching down to her waist. I would guess she was something like 22 years old. She looked on me with big dark blue eyes, filled with tears, and pointed on what was left of her parent's house. (The combination of black hair and blue eyes looked really special.) Somehow I knew she hadn't been here when the village had been attacked. She had been elsewhere, and now she blamed her parents death on herself. I saw that it lay something in the ruins. I kneeled and swept the dust and soot away. It was little figures in some kind of black shiny material. Like a mixture between metal and ivory. I took one of them up. A little figure picturing a plump, scantily clad lady wearing a basket, filled with grapes, on her head. I felt a little excited. Everything was so threatening and mysterious. I knew I was about to reveal something. I looked up. The dark forest looked intimidating. I could feel something evil hiding in the shadows between those big old lichen-covered spruces. The ground was covered with moss. A little brook made the border between the outskirts of the village and the forest. It had darkened more now. I could feel the cold and damp night air stroking my face. I turned my face back to the mystical figures. I bent closer to see better in the dusky light. But it was just getting darker and darker.

Suddenly I remembered I sat still. I dropped the figures and rubbed my hands. The dream was about to slip away. The girl had climbed down a ladder on a nearby wall. I jumped down after her while rubbing my hands. I landed on the ground and rolled over. The dream felt more stable. It looked as I had made it this time. Now the moon was casting it's dim light over the village and it wasn't as dark as before. I noticed a little wand at the foot of the wall. It was half buried in the ground. I went closer to get at better look of the inscriptions. But the girl behind me said something. I believe she warned me for sitting still, but I'm not sure. I looked on her. Now her hair was a little shorter, but it was still long, and it had purple locks in it. She was indeed beautiful. I suppressed a sudden impulse from my cerebellum. I didn't want to do that sort of stuff right now.

I rose and looked out in the dark forest. The evil was not as strong anymore, but I knew there were creatures out there. This ominous feeling in the air was till left. Now I also noticed this wonderful woman song. It was a distant, very sad anthem. I couldn't make out any words but I still have it in my head. It went straight into my heart and made the atmosphere even sultrier. I begun pondering, maybe these creatures had a camp somewhere in that thick forest? Maybe they had taken prisoners from the village? I said to the girl that we would find her parents, that they wasn't dead. I walked away towards the forest but she was a little reluctant. I smiled and said that she shouldn't be afraid. This was my dream. Then I took her hand and helped her over the little brook. After a few steps the darkness returned. My view slowly disappeared. I rubbed my hands but tripped. It was totally black. The last thing I felt was the wet moss under my hands, then I woke up.

I tried to get back asleep but realised my arm was dead. I was lying on it. I turned around and lifted it up. It just fell down on my face. Pretty fun. After a few seconds I got my feeling back and soon I could move it again. I smiled and lay there a while enjoying the dream I had just experienced. Or, not only that dream, the whole night had been marvellous. I played both Red Alert and a game called Downtown Tycoon. I've never heard of the last one before. But it was fun. In the Red Alert dream I also watched a few really good skaters. It was quite a sight. And of course I had an aquarium dream. I just don't understand it. But I have been dreaming about aquariums very often lately. And I don't have a clue why! Well, the lucid dream was the perfect ending of the night. I'm kind of surprised that it was so long and stable even though it was late in the morning. Ahh... I think I'll continue the adventure this night. Hey! Subconscious, did you here that? I said: I'll continue the adventure tonight! Understood?

Very well, sweet dreams to all of you!

Dear Kate

Thanks for sharing the dream. I think it is appropriate to post LD related NDs. I'll send you some thoughts on dream interpretation privately. You know, we had this discussion.

Excuse me please, but I haven't much time these days. I only hurry through all your postings. The coming week I have another workshop. I'll join you all, soon. You didn't open up a can of worms, everything is OK.

Lucid dreams for everyone

Ralf

Hi, Linus - enjoying school???

A marvellous dream you told. If you're willing to tell, I'm very curious as to what ideas you might have of what you'll do when you're done with school. Something creative, I hope. You write very well and your dreams are magnificent.

Joy

Hi, Linus. "Hi, Linus - enjoying school???" I think Joy has heard of irony, don't you? Going happily through my e-mail this am, I read your dream first, and later read Joy's reply. It's funny, but I had the same thought before reading Joy's comment: that perhaps you will end up being a writer. (If you survive school, that is.) Part of my thought was inspired, I think, by how well you described the atmosphere in the dream this time. You pulled the reader into your experiences, letting us share them. Your prolific imagination was already a given. DON'T LOSE IT as you continue to "grow up." The process of moving from chidlhood to teenhood, and from teenhood to adulthood can cause the loss of so much that's really the heart of what life is about. (In my opinion, obviously. But also in my experience.) Then those of us who are lucky enough to notice the problem end up in recovery, trying to regain what we started with a children! (More irony for you.) Fascinating dream. For me I saw a lot of possible symbolism and stuff about psychological issues you might have right now, such as pressure to perform at school, or whatever, but I won't intrude on you or the forum with any of it. (Except for the part I just slipped in.) You can thank Ralf for helping to keep me in line re that kind of thing. "Well to hell with this, they can't force me to go with them. I just leave right now." The second thereafter another thought bubble up: "No, why leave? I know this must be a dream. Of course I should stay." Significant, that a strong, self-respecting and self-caring decision in the nd led to going lucid. Thanks for the tip, as well as the entertainment. Was the burned out village Mossgrift, or somewhere else? Continued success in ld's, Kate

Hi Ralf. "You know, we had this discussion." I know, and I wasn't sure if I was "pushing the envelope" by pursuing the interpretation thing to the level I did. Kind of like a kid, I guess. You gave me some leeway, and I ran with it, testing the limits. You must be more consistent with me if you want me to learn! Seriously, I read your private comments on my dream, and not only do I appreciate your taking the time to respond at this very busy time in your life, but I appreciated the insights. Very, very useful to me. I feel that I'm on the edge of something. I don't know what, exactly, but some major change in mindset. Thanks again, and hoping your workshop brings powerful and prodcutive results, Kate