Alan

Hope, that dream lights up the shadow for some time. You displayed a fine level of lucidity and dream - control. Bravo! "Admirable!" And interesting, that your "failed" trail using the mask lead to LD.

The fine line: Is it a foretaste of woo woo experiences, lately discussed by Joe ;->

May the sweet memory of this dream fill your days

Yours Ralf

Hey, Keelin !

Funny report by Alan, isn't it? I remember stating him in Maui - Camp : "Leave me alone with this school - boy's stuff!!!" And now he is throwing corks, naked. Isn't that a good development?

I think so!

I wish you many hilarious moments

Ralf

To all,

Thank you for your comments and insights. Though LD is not new to me, the awareness of what it is (in the sense of educating myself on the particulars) is new.

I have passed on the ability to LD to my niece, interestingly enough. She reports success and excitement.

If my way for problem solving sounds rather advanced...it is by accident. It just seemed the natural progression over time I suppose. If I had known about methods of improving...etc. I am sure to have been far more advanced than i am...seeing as I have been on my own in this for going on 20 yrs. A very slow realization and progression.

Thank some of you for your e-mails. (A* I always felt myself to rather morbid when I left my dream body to watch it fall and hit the ground in falling dreams. A morbid sense of joy at the success of seperating myself as well as finding the 'guts' (excuse the possible inappropriate use of the word here) to view the body.

I will check back with all of you in a week. Please forgive my abscence from the discusssion in the interim.

Alan-

My two cents on the ND:

Using the device requires that you be comfortable with it. If you have a lot of angst when it's on, it's unlikely that you will relax and "let go". I'd recommend two things -1) wear the mask a lot to get really used to it's feel & the lights. 2) lower the signal strength so that it doesn't shock you in an annoying way. For me, I enjoy a setting that does NOT awaken me directly from a solid dream (DILD entry), rather the mask seem to go off when I'm "in the dark, between events (dreams)". I'm guessing that the lights are going off during or just after "micro-awakenings" and that the mask is picking up early REM in pre-DREAM. In this state, I always comment "silly mask is going off again"; "I know I'm awake but need to do the R/C anyway (habbitual)... and what do you know, my finger is going thru my head again!!!" WILD Time! I think I described this in MAUI. In fact 80%+ of my ND experiences are similar WILD-like entries. (We could argue WILD vs DILD here, but I almost NEVER see dream signs of "lights" and then 'get-it'.) My thinking is that I have the "sound and light show" set so lightly that it doesn't disturb my dreamscape but is sufficiently set to cue me in when I'm in a REM transition state. In any case if the ND is bothering you, it obviously is not being perceived as an aid. Only when you ditch it, you seem to find freedom and a quick LD. Hummmm..... Maybe it pissing you off does help after all!

Again just my two cents.

-- Dominick

Scott: If you can initiate LD to explore the outcomes of alternative real-life actions, your expertise is already awesome. But then you say you're afraid of falling when LD flying, which doesn't seem to fit with my LD experience. While I am fearlessly aware that I am having an LD (therefore cannot be harmed) I remain mostly subject to the sequence of unforseen dream events. You say you "watch your dream body falling and hitting the ground" - which gives you three bodies: the one in bed, the falling one, and the one watching. Having had similar experiences I observe that 'me' is always limited to one body, one point of view, which means that 'me' is imagining the other. My question is - is this 'imagining the other' the technique you use when exploring your alternative courses of action for real-life problems?

Keelin: While the 'increase lucidity now' incantation has had a stunningly successful effect for me in past LDs - both in awareness and cohesiveness of the dream scenario - this one didn't seem to make much difference. But then again, I was so busy doing everything I could think of (rubbing hands, throwing corks, and wigging-out over everything) that I wouldn't have noticed if it had. The fact is I was absolutely there, and it is difficult to imagine being more there than that. In hindsight, I did actually try to 'engage with the dream' as you advise, but the engagement was involuntary. After all, if you were hanging naked in the air wanting to attract the attention of someone down below, and you suddenly found yourself holding a handful of corks, what would you do? :-)

Ralf: It seems to me that I had zero control in the reported LD, though enormous intention to control. Indeed, it may have been this intention that wigged me out of it prematurely - sort of premature ejectulation? Maybe, instead of frantically doing all the enhancement techniques, and being bamboozled by the results, I should have simply relaxed and enjoyed the view? Next time. And, as forum vice president of woo-woo, I declare no evidence of woo-woo in this experience :-)

Dominick: Your two cents is valued like gold, as ever. I will set the intensity from 3 to 2, and see how we go from there. I agree that the act of simply wearing the mask reinforces the intention. But I would, one time, like to see the flashes in a dream and interpret them correctly. It would be like passing an exam :-)

Alan T.

@Alan - So to pass the exam, you have to study-up. Seems to me that by decrementing the settings for a while, then incrementing to find the right point (setting for you) is the task at hand. No kidding, you must also get used to your new friends - the "little winking red lights" - a little sense of humor and some gratitute toward those little bugggers can go a long way in adapting to ND-land. BTW, my minimal setting approach will not help with you trying to see 'lights' in dreams. With some luck, you may find a "black" space in trasition to or from a REM dream. This is one of my targets. It may not necessarily be the one for you- especially if you want to dial in a DILD. Nevertheless, something between your shocking settings and my minimalist approach would seem appropriate.

Shimmeringly,

Dominick

Hi, all.

This is my 5th LD this month, I just broke my 4 LD limit /spell

@Alan: I think, the woo-woo meter has to make a twitch, because of the astrological (and religious) elements. Forgive me, please!!! ;-<

Lucid spheres

I'm with Astrid. We are looking for our and / or some special astrological constellations. It's a 2D sight of points /symbols moving in a circle, like a moving horoscope. Then the horoscope is projected to the skies. It gets more and more vivid, with twinkling stars and coloured planet's points. Now I see Jupiter, with his great storm - eye. I ask myself: How can I see that from my point of view? I must be dreaming. As soon as I think so, the vividness and the colours are increasing amazingly. Lots of balls, transparent and coloured, rotating, are flying into the scene, filling my sight. I feel lifted and I'm being lifted, filled with joy and exultation. I awake. Comment: I did let go of reality checking, the mask and MILD for three days, just to get some rest. Yesterday I've listened to "Missa Brevis in G" by Mozart and some other pieces, performed by a local choir, in which Astrid took part. There were times, when I shivered and the music took me higher. And it was wonderful to know, that my beloved Astrid was creating and was part of this wonderful music, that touched me so deeply.

Ralf,

Don't get me wrong. As woo-woo is simply the inability to leave a proper space for ignorance to exist peacefully in the human mind, I detect none in your report. If, however, you had interpreted your LD as some sort of message from Jupiter, and rushed off in the morning to research its astrological significance on your personal problems of current concern, then started to fill your home with gaudy statues of the ancient god Jove, well, then you would have certainly been woo-woo as hell :-)

@Alan

Oops!! Does anyone need some statues of Jove? They are really good conserved!

Thanks for going deeper into woo - woo meter's functions. It twitches, when anyone shifts his interpretation from 95% po to 100% true? Aren't then some "scientism's" opinions woo - woo, too? Real scientific opinions must include the authors ignorance!

Ralf

CAUTION: WOO-WOO METER PEGGED MR. SMITH!!!!

Now were getting somewhere's fella's!....

Just how much parrallel processing is occuring? I see this as analogous to theories proposed in the context of quantum computing...Those quasi-reflexive behaviors governed by instinct seemingly independent of cognitive reason... Can we hone these skills to multitask in the waking realm?

These plots that seem to unfold as logical scema, with the puzzle pieces assemble just beyond our cognitive reach....And now, a collective few puzzle master, forging their own virtual realities for personal gain.....Able to share the skill with those openminded enough to listen....

Pretty far out stuff...

zZ(Is Alan the elusive 20th Century Schizoid Man?) z z z z Joe

Ralf,

If you have ever read any scientific papers you would surely have noticed their traditionally stodgy, ponderous, almost unreadable prose, but maybe not analysed that one of the reasons why they are so difficult to read is because the writers are bending over backwards not to make any kind of statement which could be construed as an opinion. Thus, for example, you get sentences such as: "These results seem to support a number of earlier studies which have suggested that it may be this activity which is implicated in the possible modulation of the putative interneuron." In short, a proper scientist is someone who never believes anything to be 'true' except that all observations are mental constructs which may or may not be useful in developing a new paradigm of reality.

Joe,

I find your prose as difficult to understand as some scientific papers, but I think the above comment covers your query. And it happens that I am, in fact, a 20th Century Schizoid Man. A recent clinical measurement study has shown that close relatives of schizophrenics show low-levels of the same class of symptoms exhibited by the patient. Like many scientific discoveries, this comes as no news to the mums, dads, brothers and sisters affected. But it's nice to get it out of the closet.

Dream on

Alan T

Lucidity AGAIN! :D

Wow, this is impressive! Another lucid moment in such a short moments of space, for me anyway J this happened in an afternoon nap from 3:30 to 5:15 because I had got nuff all sleep the night before'like 6 hours or so.

I am now very used to my entrance to lucid dreams. They start of with my whole body feeling like it is being moved around in a trance like motion. Sometimes it gets so rough it feels as if people are grabbing the real you, the inner you, from the inside of your body and then making you depart from that of your actual physical body. In this stage I just tell myself, "The next thing I see, will be a dream" I repeat this many times over while this unstable state of what I believe is sleep paralysis takes over. Soon an image appears, when I mean soon, I mean about 5 minutes after that uncomfortable feeling has settled down. The image is that of my self, first person perspective walking into our pool place where I usually play pool and where I will be playing pool tonight. I say something to a woman who I have not yet seen in there as a pool attendant and as soon as I speak I realise that yes, this is a dream. I haven't done any reality checks, but for some unknown reason, I know it is. I say something like "Do you have any money?' while the lady is attending somebody. I walk away quickly realising that I am dreaming and am thinking wtf did I say that for. While this all happened the colours in my vision were that of many however a beautiful soft purple colour on entering the dream took over the shadows and made the pool place very nice to be in. I walk away over to the slot machines and view a sign on the wall. The sign says text that is magically appearing as I read each line a new one emerges below. The text is in small capitals and each letter is a different colour. I cannot remember what it says, but I do no that the message in the board was that "there is someone in this room that you know, don't you" I couldn't believe what I had read but very comfortably looked round to see an old friend who I used to play tennis with "James" sitting down at a small table on a bar stool having a beer. I look away with a smile and stop. I tell myself that everything I am seeing is an image in my mind. With that thought lodged in my mind I proceed outside for some flying lessons. I do just like I did in my other dream. Crouch the legs so that my thighs are touching my chest. And just before leaping into the air, I remember that I couldn't do it last time. Just on take off, I new that something felt special about this launch. I leap into the air and the jump was truly spectacular. It felt like I had just had the turbo button engaged as within 3 seconds I had gone from the point of ground to space with stars around me. I couldn't believe it. Imagine the star ship enterprise hurtling past you while your present on a stationary ship. The intensenesses of this was truly and utterly something very special. I touch the stars and then come probing back to earth out of control. As I hit the ground it doesn't hurt one bit and I hop up and walk along to my car. (While walking along, me jumping like that had been a very serious achievement in my beginner lucid dream world and each launch I do for flying purposes has now reminded myself that I too am like a space rocket flight. Exploring the outer limits of what I have always thought would never be possible) As I head back to the car I see a friend in my car (drivers seat) and some other people I used to know who had hit into the front of my car. At first it didn't bother me, but as they reverse to get out of my front bumper I somehow get frustrated and resort to violence. I start yelling and cursing the driver who also used to be someone I played tennis with, long ago. He starts yelling back and soon a fight is about to break out. He approaches me and I step forward and think of him going back like 20 meters from where he is standing and then I push him. I cannot remember exactly if he did go flying or not but from here on I lost lucidity. Parts of the dream from here are very vague. But I do remember one scene where I wasn't sure if I was dreaming. I was walking along some path and there was green lush grass and wonderful flowers of many colours surrounding me. The sun was high and very bright, so I tried to get rid of the glare. Sure enough the glare calmed down and things were looking fantastic. I then spoke out loud "Increase lucidity/intensity" (cannot remember which one) things prepped up with colours becoming more and more intense and everything was really perfect. I then tried to take all the contrast out and things got dark pretty quick. It was like I was the remote on the T.V adjusting my picture to how I suite.

Then I woke up, and felt really refreshed for some reason. I also noticed my pillow was wet, due to dribble LOL! :P must have shown how stunned I really was ;)

Mathew,

Thank you for the fascinating account, which emphasises, for me, how our lucid dreaming imagery is as intensely personal as our non-lucid dreams. The difference between the two is defined only when you make a decision to do something outside the dream 'script': that is, when you are able to exercise your rational will in the dream world.

Best wishes

Alan T.

Thanks, Alan:

I don't know if I want to be included in that group, and for the purpose of inciting juicy dialog, I promise to be less nebulus in future posts. I appreciate your interesting definition on woo-woo, and promise to credit you when reciting it.

The "20th Century .." reference was made to a lingering song in my mind, having seen a band Mon eve named King Crimson (with mostly original members, I must add), ...Interesting references to Atlantis and the Lemarians in some of their earlier works...Zappa-esque...A whole lot there still to discover....

Two intersting article in Science news this week with refereence to your main field of study, my friend.... one on a renewed interest in trace amines, and the other describing PET supported data showing effects of psycho vs. chemical treatment for depression....go to: http://www.sciencenews.org

enjoy...

zzzZZZZ(how can I keep this ND thingy on my head?) z z z z Joe

@Alan

You are right. Real scientist are very careful in using expressions like "It IS so and so." But some scientist are too human. They phrase their thoughts as if they were the truth, they have their opinions and witch - hunt heretic colleagues. That is "scientism", no real science. Never heard about it? I do!

@Mathew

Wonderful success. Congratulations. Lucidity faded, as you began acting aggressive. That is interesting. Just like in real life...

Hi, dreamers... I'd like to offer some important distinctions here that I hope won't be seen as nit-picky. It was inspired by reading a thoughtful recent post from Alan T, quoted here for convenience:

" The difference between the two [lucid and non-lucid dreaming] is defined only when you make a decision to do something outside the dream 'script': that is, when you are able to exercise your rational will in the dream world. "

I think I know what you mean, Alan, and I'm not picking on you. It's just a good opportunity for a discussion.

In non-lucid dreams, we are making behavioral decisions much as we are in lucid dreams, and in waking reality, for that matter.

True enough, lucid dreaming is by operating definition more rational, in that it is based on more accurate information: to wit, that the environment is a mental construct based on inner workings rather than one reflecting the external physical world. But rational behavior per se is not what distinguishes lucidity from non-lucidity, and neither is departing from a script.

Our degree of mental clarity varies within both lucid and non-lucid dreams.

Furthermore, sometimes we 'behave' by reflex, sometimes by instinct, and sometimes by conscious choice. This is true in waking, non-lucid dreaming, and lucid dreaming.

In non-lucid dreams, a situation unfolds around us, and we (the dream-ego, if you will) are making behavioral choices of one sort or another.

We are often more aware of our decision-making in lucid dreams because that emerges from the more accurate information: the powerful knowledge that we can do whatever we choose without those constraints that would be imposed if we were acting in the physical world. We are less likely to behave by reflex or instinct, in part because those are irrelevant behaviors that are survival-based and designed to guide us in waking reality. We are also more likely to observe our own thought processes, i.e. meta-cognition. And our thinking may indeed be more clear.

Nevertheless, we still run around in non-lucid dreams and do the best we can. Things happen and we figure out, one way or another, what to do about it...often in an essentially rational manner.

Consciousness and free will are not absent from non-lucid dreaming.

What's missing from non-lucid dreams is not conscious departure from a script. Our behavior in any dream does not appear to be scripted, per se. What's missing is the clear understanding that one is dreaming. That's an important difference.

This knowledge often results in different choices as the dream unfolds... but they are still all choices.

Happy dream-trails!

Best regards, Brenda Giguere aka reverie

Brenda,

Thanks for your thoughtful response. I used the expression "outside the script" for brevity, and to indicate that dream content is generated by a mental-feedback mechanism outside our conscious control - like a script we do not write.

My comment about rational will was an attempt to name the mental attribute which, by being exercised, generates higher levels of lucidity. When we practice lucidity-enhancement techniques, for example, we choose to deliberately, wilfully separate from the scenario around us and perform an action "outside the script'. Perhaps I should have used the term "reflective consciousness" instead of rational will, but reflective consciousness always sounded to me more like a description of non-lucid dreaming than the mental mechanism which generates lucidity.

I must disagree with you when you say we make "behavioural choices" in non-lucid dreams. Here, we are not making choices but merely responding and reacting automatically to the delusory situations being generated by our dream world. In this condition, I contend that we are not actually there, present, aware, to make a choice. In order to make any kind of choice, we must be aware that we are dreaming - and to thereby separate the mind from the clamour of automatic reactions in order to assess the situation and to creatively choose a course of action.

Trying to avoid any charge of semantic-juggling, what I am getting at is that we must make a distinction between automatic reaction and choice. Self-presence, awareness involves detachment from automatic responses and engagement of the rational will. When you snatch your hand off a hot stove, that's not a choice. Similarly, when you unconsciously generate hallucinations in a dream, and then assume they are independent phenomena, you are not making a choice, nor are you capable of choosing.

Them's my views, anyway :-)

Alan T

Dreamers,

Waking at 4am last night, I did the usual 30 minute potter, went back to bed, set the mask for an hour's delay, setting 2 as advised by Dominick, and chose a task to accomplish should I be blessed with an excursion to the Elysian Fields. I decided not to be too ambitious (like trying to make all schema vanish) but to just try to play a guitar. I wondered if my technique would improve.

After what must have been an hour of repeatedly dragging my Dobermann mind back to the intention from the juicy bone of the day's events, pow-pow-pow, the red lights flashed, and I woke up miffed that I'd put all that mental effort in for nothing. Wearily, I went through the motions of pressing the reality check button, perfectly sure that such confirmation was unnecessary.

The button didn't work: no light, no beep. I tried again, thinking that the battery had gone flat. Nada. I thought, "But I can't be lucid dreaming, I'm here lying in my real bed and everything is normal!'

I decided that the thing to do was get up again, and do some more reality tests. They were not necessary, because when I got out of bed I found that my bedroom was now a sort of tent. The fabric walls were loose in places, and a breeze was making them flap open and closed. Through the gaps I observed that my tent-room was suspended from the top of a much larger tent, a gigantic marquee housing a full scale Wimbledon-style tennis tournament which was taking place, complete with audience of thousands, far below.

As usual I tried to fly, and ascended through the fabric ceiling easily. As I gained height, I looked down as the huge circus tent below grew smaller. I remembered my guitarist intention, and decided not to continue going up into space (been there), but to return to the tent room. I started back down, thinking, "Hmmm, I can control this one!' But as I reentered the tent, I found myself in an ordinary room, and was immediately engaged in conversation by a giant Ostrich. This creature was certainly an Ostrich, but it also had some characteristics of BigBird from the Sesame Street TV series. It was very talkative, but I didn't pay much attention because I was intent upon finding a guitar. I rushed off out of the room with the jabbering Ostrich hot in pursuit like some weird kind of paparazzi, and found myself in a corridor with lots of doors and turns. I thought, "Oh no, this is one of those labyrinth dream places where you keep opening doors and finding further corridors and doors - ad infinitum. I'll never find a guitar in here.' Then I woke up - for real.

Regarding the earlier post about choices, I think my rational will choices in this LD occurred when I checked the reality test button; when I got out of bed; when I decided to stop ascending and return to the tent; when I ignored what the Ostrich was saying and continued the search for a guitar.

In hindsight, I might have done better by asking the ostrich for a guitar.

Dream on

Alan T

Hi Alan,

I wonder why an Ostrich? In my country we see the Ostrich always as the bird keeping his head in the ground or the so called "Ostrich politics" by which the meaning is translated into not talking about the essential meaning of what is really happening. The Sesamestreet scene tells me it's rather playful or by playfulness that you discover your guitar, instead of talking.... It's interesting all the ld's it's working quite well for some of us. Hermine

Hermine,

I'm cautious about assigning such symbolic meanings to dream characters, and have, as it happens, just returned from a delightful party where I had a 'spirited' discussion with a Shamanist friend. She belongs to an all-female group which makes their own drums and performs 'inner journeys' attempting remote viewing and the like. I agreed with her that there is an obvious relationship between shamanist methods and lucid dreaming, but expressed reservations about her assumption that the characters she meets are autonomous 'spirits' . I recognised that she gets a lot of juice out of this, but when she insisted I would get better LDs if I stuck feathers in my NovaDreamer mask, I felt compelled to tell her that I abstained from such woo-woo practises (although I think Stephen might consider this adornment for a deluxe model). At this point we were joined by another female friend who sided with the shamanist because she had found her prayers to a minor Egyptian Goddess helpful during her recovery from breast cancer. The wine was flowing, so I might have crossed some boundaries of decorum by suggesting that her double mastectomy may have had something to do with her cancer cure. This evoked a sort of friendly outrage from both ladies that I - someone who wore a flashing light mask in bed - had the nerve to say that they were woo-woo. Feeling outnumbered, I retreated behind the bastion of scientific method, only to be pursued, harpy-like, and ridiculed for believing that 'science knew everything' - an inaccurate but favourite taunt of such friends.

Well, after this, I hesitate to say that the ostrich and the tennis match were probably day residue, or that I don't believe the talkative big bird was there to tell me I should discuss the 'essential meaning of what is happening' instead of waste my time playing guitar. I hold that if I want to play a guitar in a lucid dream, no damn ostrich has the right to stop me :-)

Dream on

Alan T

Hi Alan,

Maybe you took it too serious, you were above the tent and you went back to the ground, next time you play the "stars from heaven" on your guitar and stay quite a bit longer in the "air". About Shamanism, yes I'm very interested in this type of work. At ASD Conference I joined Tom Crockett in a Shaman workshop, and one afternoon I went to the Shamanworkshop of 4 Shamans, one woman from Russia, 3 men and Stanley Krippner from Saybrook Institute San Francisco who has written many books and articles. One of his books: "The spiritual dimensions of Healing".(together with Patrick Welch) From Native Shamanism to Contemporary Health Care. Well there is a lot of more information on Shamanism,... I can tell all of us had a wonderful experience, with Native American songs, drumming, flute, storytelling and the link with the dreamworld. Healing might come by a Shaman's dream for the person or otherwise, being lucid will give the best information then, I suppose so.Using dreamcatchers,rituals,dance, drummingcircles etc. all is possible. We have many cultures all around the world who have all different methods for helping the community or on a personal level for healingceremonies.

(I dreamt about a stadium Thursdaymorning 7-26-2001, not wimbledon, there was a performance,not from you on the guitar...afterwards I cleaned the stadium and put a new carpet in this stadium, it was a very large one and I am amazed that I fixed this in one night! Later on in the night I dreamt about the farm again were I was born and my brother Jan passed with the coach,in which my father and mother were sitting.(my father died in 1971 and my mother in 1998, in reality my parents had a coach and horses when I was young)and the theme of the carpet on the ground was again present. On Saturday I was in the center of France again in my dream, a lot of dreams are with the theme of circle and round or to make a total image.I even remembered an appointment with Dominick an our group to go somewhere for a swim. I look for everybody to see if they are present. They play at the waterside and with the sand(as our group has been playful in Maui) Well I didn't think of Maui in this dream, In the beginning I was in France and later on I was just along the water somewhere in the world but the only person I know is Dominick from Maui) It happened three times in this dream,(the circle element)at the end I draw the symbol on my postpaper. By the way, my real businesscard is a square, a circle inside and in the circle one triangle upwards and the other triangle downwards. Hermine

All, Well I am back from work. I hope to maybe get involved in the ongoping discussion a bit more now.

Alan, I think you may misunderstand me a bit. I have no training in this field, only my own experiences. You speak of techniques? I fly by the seat of my pants. Excuse the pun. I never thought much about it. three bodies...but at times yes it is true. When I pull myself out of my dream body, and watch it fall, there are indeed three entities. I am not so sure 3 bodies. there is what I percieve as me falling to the ground. there is my true physical nature, and my sight, my emotions, and my intellect all watching the event. Actually When I am lucid. I dont feel as if my dreamself has control. I feel it is indeed I. On the issue of my controlling things. Dont misunderstand. I left out one major ingredient. The will to do so. I usually do not enter the state where I am solving things in my dreams unless I have some personal emotional motivation. I think if there is no impending emotional threat then I am less likely to dream about the problem and therefore do not recognize the opportunity to explore solutions in my dreams.I suppose what i am saying is that, though I decide to attempt lucidity and problem solving with intent BEFORE I go to sleep. The problem must be weighing very heavily on my spirit and mind to guarantee its presence in my dreams.

Scott,

Interesting. Part of the fascination of the LD world is that everyone seems to have a private one all to themselves, complete with personal interpretations and a sort of pantheon of dream characters. It makes it easy to understand how primitive religions such as Egypt and ancient Greece developed, and also even earlier ones such as animism - which is still here today as shamanism. Lucid dreaming has a lot to answer for, and maybe also a lot to be credited with. After all, religions are generally recognised as the significant binding force which allowed early cultures to develop into civilisations. Sometimes I imagine that long past time when our ancestors first looked up into the night sky and wondered what it was all about. Maybe it was just one of them who first had the thought which separated us from the other animals. I wonder if he or she was alone at the time, and what it felt like to have that first moment of reflective consciousness. But then I think maybe it wasn't so dramatic: that reflective consciousness developed slowly in dream images which were shared with the family, then the tribe. Language must have appeared before that could happen, though, so could language have developed without the parrallel development of reflective consciousness? I don't think so. But it seems to me that the dreams came first. Maybe we dreamed of speaking before we could speak?

Lucid Dreaming Strikes again !

Hi everyone. Thought I'd share a very lovely experience with you all that I had last night. I have been trying to induce WILD's for a while now and FULL success came to me last night.

Decided to nod off to bed at about 9pm. I decided to lay on my back and concentrate on inducing Lucidity. After about an hour, this is what I recalled - AKA - here's my story ;-) .......

I remember lying on my couch in the dream, trying to induce a Lucid Dream. All of a sudden I remember feeling a REALLY harsh falling feeling in my stomach and I started to lift out of my body ! I also recall hearing a feminine voice saying "You can sit up now and come out" - so I did. I remember floating up and hovering over my body - lying on the couch sleeping - Although I was really in bed

I hovered for a few seconds and then floated through the ceiling into a bedroom that was not like our own. I landed softly on a bed where my other half was laying awake. She say up and I immediately said to her ... "Babes, I am dreaming. You are not real, but simply a character made up by me. This is a dream." I also happened to tell her that I was lying safely next to her in bed.

I started to awake, so I looked at the hands and also remember Alan's previous poting where he shouted "Increase Lucidity by 1000" ..... so I shouted this out too!!! It DOES REALLY work ! At that point I remember looking around and seeing colours VERY distinctively and very bright. What an amazing feeling this was. Laura, my other half, then grabbed my arm and was upset and didn't want me to leave, but I floated up through the roof - and then awoke !

What a calm and cool Lucid Dream this was. I have started really concentrating in these dreams now, and not just rushing off to do the nearest, coolest thing - well, when I feel like it ;-)

I am not a believe in OBE's and have never read any of the postings on this Forum to do with them. I think if I had hovered over my bed when I first became Lucid, then I would have probebly believed OBE's to be real, but because I hovered over myself on the couch in another dream, this proves to me that it is simply a dream. Just saying that cause a friend of mine believes in Spirit Guides etc etc. and I do not. laff

Time I went to bed was 21:00 and the time I awoke was 23:25. It also took me about an hour to fall asleep too and the entire hour was devoted purely to trying to induce a Lucid Dream. Ohhhhh boy ...... looking foward to be able to do this again tonight - if the gods permit !

Thanks for your time and hope to inspire !!!

Bottoms up, Daniel

Daniel: AWERSOME!!! man, I know exactly how you felt when you said the "Increase Lucidity x 1000" part. It really does work aey :D

Imagine saying something like, "increase happyness x1000" HAPPPPPPPPYYYYYYY :DDDD

hehehe Excellent stuff Daniel! Keep it up, you have got me in Ecstasy ;)

Well everyone,

It occurs to me, (being so new to talking of this) that I may have been mistaken. It seems the more I learn of Lucid dreaming, the more I realise that I am more involved with dream control...which often brings me into lucidity. My profile states...twice a week average. I must get into it to revise it. Maybe. I am unsure. Maybe you can help.

I have a dream control experience approximately twice a week...which I become aware that I am able to manipulate...rewind..redirect the outcomes...seemingly concious of the events. However; this frequency fluctuates. It increases when I have issues in my life that need resolution. Partially at my own behest(initiating the circumstances of the dream and applying my current issues to the dreamstate to work through the problems..or possible solutions). There are other times I dont remember my dreams at all and must asssume I was not lucid..these would screw up that average. Suffice to say...the average is based upon those weeks that I do become lucid.

I have never had any training in the area of initiating lucidity, and am frankly lost as to how. It is usually a random occurance in my dreamstate. Only truly initiated by me when I am under mental and emtional stress to find a resolution to a problem. I cannot imagine what it would be like to have the power to initiate lucidity with ease or just to adventure. I am not sure I would want to go there. It is a useful tool, but I sort of like the unknown adventure of it all, and am a bit concerned about losing the joy of the surprise.

Maybe someone could suggest a use to lucidity. One that impels me to attempt to learn these methods you all seem to be involved with. One, other than some mental high. Maybe I am just to practical. I still only initiate when I feel a need to do so.

PS. I realise that remembering my dreams is not a sign of lucidity. I understand that it is being aware that I am dreaming while still in the dream-state. But I assume if I don't remember dreaming then I never reached lucidity. This may not be true?

SCOTT: I've also been intrigued by the idea that we may have lucid dreams and not remember them. It seemed like a classic example of a question that by definition we could never know the answer to. However, I recently had an experience which, while it doesn't prove anything, does convince me that I have lucid dreams I don't remember: I had a lucid dream, then I had a (non-lucid) false awakening in which I recalled the lucid dream in great detail and wrote it down. Then I actually woke up, and I could remember the second dream quite clearly but could not remember ANYTHING of the first dream...not even the things I had written during the second dream. I only remembered that I HAD remembered it during the second dream. If I had not had the second dream, I am confident that I would have no notion that I had had a lucid dream that night.

I say this doesn't prove anything because there is an alternative explanation: That I only had one dream, a non-lucid one, in which I confabulated a memory of an earlier lucid dream which I never actually had. All I can say is that for me, I am convinced this isn't what happened. I know the feeling of confabulating memories in (non-lucid) dreams, and this didn't feel like that kind of dream at all.

ALAN: You have the most delightful brain. Your discription of the Shaman discussion had me laughing out loud, and I appreciate your way with words and your common sense so much that I hate to quibble but...by your account you were NOT lucid when you made the first 2 choices in your list (the choice to do a reality test, and the choice to get out of bed).

Maybe it's different for different people, but phrases like "I decide", "I change my mind because" and "it occurs to me that if" appear frquently in my dream journal. I spend a lot of my time in non-lucid dreams making choices, evaluating courses of action based on what I perceive to be reality and what I judge the likelihood and desirability of each possible outcome of each action to be. Which is no different, no more "automatic", than what I do when I'm awake. If Stephen hooked up electrodes to my brain I imagine he'd see the exact same process going on when I make choices in a lucid dream, in a non-lucid dream, or awake.

If you were just saying we don't exercise choice about "what hallucinations to see" in a non-lucid dream, then I somewhat agree with you...although paradoxically this is more true in the kind of non-lucid dream where I am making a lot of choices about how to interact with what I see. In more passive non-lucid dreams where I am just a spectator, I am often quite involved with "writing the script" and deciding what to have happen next.

But as best I can tell you're not just talking about "choice" of what happens in a dream, but also about "choice" of what to do? Even if I granted that I don't choose to have the light turn yellow and I don't choose to see a street free of cross traffic, I still maintain that I choose whether to send a signal to my foot to step on the gas pedal or the brake. The mere fact that there is no real light or street or pedal (and arguably no real foot) doesn't make it any less of a choice.

Hi Laura, I am sure you read this, I cannot reach you by harmless@altavista.net can you gave the Maui group your new emailaddress? I tried to send you E.L.E.C.T.R.I.C dream information by Richard Wilkerson, but got it twice back from the Mailserver? Hermine

Hi Laura, Scott, I'm sure that we can have lucid dreams and not rememeber them. Several times I've had something happen during the day which has brought back the memory of a lucid dream from the previous night, and I think to myself "How did I not remember that when I woke ?". Makes me wonder how many I've missed when nothing has sparked the memory ... Rob

Laura,

".by your account you were NOT lucid when you made the first 2 choices in your list (the choice to do a reality test, and the choice to get out of bed)."

This is a bit like your query about if we can dream of a dream we have forgotten, i.e. a very complicated question. How do you know that you're not dreaming up the memory of an earlier dream - as part of the current dream? And if that's not the case, does it mean that the mind never forgets anything really; that if we visualise our lives are like a hosepipe attached to the tap of birth, then we are really all the water inside it, not just the leading surface?

Nevertheless I hold that I was lucid when I chose to do the double reality test. It was just that I thought I was conscious in this world, but discovered I was conscious in the other one - either way, I was lucid :-)

But I take your following points about choosing. Maybe we need a new dictionary of terms especially for dream experience. For a start, I feel we should be able to distinguish between the 'choices' we make when responding to our own private dream world, and the ones we make while in the waking world - just as we must, for practical purposes, differentiate between fantasy and speculation - and real life. To me, 'choices' made in dream and life belong to different categories. I quite agree though that EEG would not detect any difference in brain activity.

Similarly, I too have 'caught myself' semi-consciously writing the script - like rewinding a video and deciding to play the scene through with different characters or plot outcomes. Ho hum, will we ever get to the bottom of it all?

Kind regards - and don't forget to email me an LD for the article!

Alan T

Just a quick feed back on a dream I had and so far the results from this dream.

By Mathew BT (Splat) (203-79-102-110.tnt14.paradise.net.nz - 203.79.102.110) on Monday, July 02, 2001 - 04:48 am: Edit

Very interesting dream I had, Was driving along one of the outback roads here in New Zealand and a police car past by heading the other way. I look back to see the car turn around and come after me. This police car comes right up behind me while driving, like the front of his car is really close to touching the back of my car. I very soon expect to hear sirens and flashing lights wanting me to pull over. Next thing I know the car over takes me and it turns out to be a family station wagon towing a trailer! I'm like phew But never become lucid.

The next day I am heading home from my mates and went passed a speed camera speeding, funnily enough, I never saw the camera flash, although it should have. So could this dream have been possibly a warning as to watch out or what? Over here in NZ it takes roughly 2 weeks before the fine comes in the mail, so I am very curious if I get it or not. If I don't get a fine, then the dream I had the night before the incident makes sense in maybe I am getting a second chance or something?? Hmmm who knows

Well more than a month later and no ticket :D

touches wood

I give my first years experience of trying to induce lucid dreams. I used the reflection intention technique of Stephen LaBerge about 15 times per day. I dabbled a few times with MILD. Otherwise I lay in bed hoping I would have lucid dreams. Wakefulness resulting from temporary insomnia or from writing in my dream diary by my bed definitely seemed to result in an increase chance of having an LD. I am too lazy to carry out the NAP technique properly!

I had 65 LDs between July 2000 and June 2001 distributed as follows, (1x2 means I had 1 night with two LDs; 3x2 three nights with 2 LDs and so on.)

July 0 August 0 September 1 (on last day of month) October 3 November 3 December 4 January 2 February 6 March 10 (1x2) April 11 (3x2) May 10 (1x2) June 15 (4x2) (in July I went back down to 8)

I got off to a slow start but then had success so waiting a long time for the first LD should not be a cause for discouragement to beginners.

30 of the LDs seemed to occur spontaneously, 35 were associated with me recognizing something odd in the dream (dreamsign induced), although in some cases I feel I was lucid before I focused on the odd thing. I had 9 days with two LDs, this is in accord with chance expectation assuming LDs are distributed at random across days. The spontaneous and dreamsign induced dreams were not significantly clustered during the period. I have not yet checked to see if the LDs as a whole are clustered temporally over the whole year with interspersed dry spells but I think not. (I had one dry spell of two weeks in May and of a week in June; maybe I exaggerated these on the forum to try to get feedback and curry sympathy!).

The majority of my dreams have been short, some only a few seconds. I have still not been able to have a conversation with a dream character longer than an exchange of greetings. Nor have I really been able to stand back and take in the scenery calmly. My LDs tend to be rather hectic as I rush around doing tasks I'd planned. Nevertheless I have been able to carry out many interesting things, if briefly, including flying, looking in mirrors, playing the piano, investigating the TV, morphing my hand and embracing dead relatives. I cannot remember the beginning of some of my longer LDs anyway, so I cannot at present see the point in me having an LD of 15 minutes!

I have carried out spinning in 35 of the dreams and in 14 of these emerged into a new LD scenario, usually but not always my bedroom. In the remaining 21 I either awoke from the spin or more rarely entered an NLD thinking that I had awoken. My apparent rather low success rate with spinning is I believe due to my stopping spinning and carrying out tasks within the black void, which I enjoy but then awake from. I always have a dream body in the black void and have found all sorts of surprising objects there.

My short LDs are mixed up with the longer ones and I am not convinced that premature awakening is in my case the result of some kind of performance anxiety. I believe that I am often just near to awakening when I become lucid, perhaps more likely to become lucid. Relevant to this is that my longest LDs and also those where the dream scene has been most clear and vivid are those that have followed a spin. Hand rubbing helps but I don't find it as useful as spinning.

I enjoyed the challenge very much this last year but towards the end in June when I had 15 LDs I felt under quite high stress to "keep the progress going" and this possibly explains my drop back last month. My goal for this year is to make a serious effort to get some success with MILD and not worry about how many LDs I am having ' I'm sure to continue to have them. I hope my "report" is of interest.

Best wishes to all

Owen

Owen, I found your report interesting. I am impressed with your diligence in record-keeping, your careful planning and your persistence as you are perfecting your skills. Mary

Owen,

I'm with Mary on this. Your methodical modus operandi is exactly what LD needs to move a wider audience to consider seriously investigating it for themselves, and to separate it from today's purple-hued spiritual supermarket forever doomed to minority appeal. I'm with you, buddy.

Mathew,

That's interesting. I too have noticed that LD content seems somehow to favour less important things. You'd think that any precognitive ability would address itself to items of long-term import, but this does not seem to be the case. Compared to the personal subjects of deep concern we all have, the talent seems irresponsibly capricious. For example, I recently had an LD featuring a cricket bat ( I have no interest in sport of any form), which I tracked down as an item of day residue - a fleeting glimpse of a bat signed by some luminaries of the pitch someone had given us to auction at a charity raffle. Why my feeble brain should have selected that to include in an LD baffles me.

Dream on

Alan T

I woke up this morning, read something not related to dreams, and laid back down without focussing my thoughts. I was having a NLD of walking down a wide street with several people. I was asking one, a friend, if she was going to be returning to college soon (in everyday reality, she has been out of college many years.) Suddenly my vision left me, everything was grey. I felt that my eyelids were closed and I tried to open them but couldn't, even when I used my fingers.

That led me to realize that I was dreaming, I thought, "This is a lucid dream because this only happens in lucid dreams." I was wanting help in getting my eyes open, and someone was standing in front of me. We began kissing, and I wondered whom I was kissing and thought that it was the woman that I had been asking about college. Kissing a woman was a new experience for me. I noticed the smell and the taste, it felt strange. We kissed a second time, then I got the idea to say, "increase lucidity 1000x" and the grey seemed to kaleidoscope, and I got back partial vision--the upper part, the lower part was a spinning grey, a snowy grey. I said "increase lucidity 30,000x's" and this time I could see letters in the kaleidoscope and the scene that appeared was a man, who looked lifeless in front of me slumped to the ground, and set of wide stairs, huge pillars, with a man seated near a pillar watching me. The man had dark brown hair, did not seem aware, more dazed. Then I said "increase lucidity 150,000x" and as I felt myself starting to spin and saw like a golden form appearing in the center of the kaleidoscope, I thought to myself, "150,000x is probably too much for me, I don't know that I could take it." I started to slow down, and as the scene was appearing, I could hear the phone ringing. At first I tried to see if I could keep the dream, but I could feel it dissipating, and I woke up. Sometimes when I have a LD, I remember every detail and the sequence of events easily. Not so with this dream, it felt more like a NLD in that the memory of it is fuzzy, and upon awakening I was a bit confused about the sequence of events. I simply reported it as well as I could. I call it an LD because I know that I was dreaming while in the dream. I remember thinking in the dream that it was a long LD, but upon awakening it did not seem long. Also, I was impressed that each time I said "increase lucidity" I experienced it as a spinning. This is the first time I remember trying that phrase and I was not expecting spinning.

Mary,

I also often think during the LD that much more time has elapsed from the remembered beginning than appears to have been the case when I awake.

(I distinguish these from LDs where I'm sure I was lucid well before the remembered beginning but cannot quite remember what went before.)

It is quite irritating because sometimes I have thoughts like....this is a long LD I'll let myself wake up now...and I do wake up when I could have done something else or tried spinning. ......But as I said before, I'm aware that I might not remember all the details of a long LD and I sometimes think about this while I'm lucid.

I seem to have most difficulty in remembering the details of the few LDs I've had after my first or second REM period....these always begin with spinning and I'm sure I've passed through several spins but have only feint glimpses of what I was doing.

Owen

Hi there!

I'm new here and this is my first post. I really seeing forward to discuss lucid dreams with other people familiar to the phenomena. It's very interesting... This is some of what I've experienced lately:

This was a lucid dream I had a while ago. When I became lucid I knew at once what I should try to do. Because this I had already decided before I went to bed. I had just been away for a weak on a "lajv". Live?? (not sure on the translation) A living role-playing game. Like theatre, without audience, often in a middle age-like environment. Anyway, I had decided that I would try to visit a "lajv"-village in my dream. A village in a middle age-like fantasy world. A world with elves, dwarfs, dragons, jugglers, wizards, gnomes, trolls, lyktgubbar and other kind of "oknytt". Like the ultimate "lajv"-experience. Now I stood there, in my dream, in front of my house and tried to change the scenery. I tried to remember my vision of the village, but nothing happened. A few pictures flashed by and I suddenly found myself stuck in a big dark void space. I felt I was regaining consciousness so I dropped the try and returned to the original dream. But I didn't give up so easily. I remembered that I had read in a Nightlight-experiment about a test involving a mirror. And in the end of the experiment you should try to walk through the mirror, and see what happened. I read about this one guy who ended up at a totally different place. So I thought that I maybe could trick the dream, trick my brain, and use the mirror as a portal to my village. I went inside and stopped in front of this big mirror we have in our hall. It's not a wall mirror, it's a part of a door to a big cupboard. I didn't want to waste any precious dream time so I stepped right through. But I didn't come to my village. Instead I was stuck inside the cupboard in some kind of viscous liquid. I tried to imagine how I stepped out in the village but the only thing that happened was that I slowly sank to the bottom of the cupboard. Then I gave up and dropped the idea. And now I don't really remember what I did next. I know I some how got out from the cupboard but then what? Since I don't remember I guess the dream ended shortly after that.

It seems as the problem was that I didn't have my vision of the village clear enough. So the first thing I did next day was creating a perfect vision in my mind of the village. Of course, a part of the problem was surely that my conscious wasn't too high. But I believe having a perfect picture of the place you want to get to helps a lot. Next night I didn't have any lucid dreams so I made sure during the following day that the vision was perfect. Not blurry in any way or similar. I went to bed hoping I would wake up the following morning filled with happiness after visiting my village.

But I didn't, still I woke up filled with happiness. Because I had had not less then six (I'm not sure) lucid dreams. But it was really weird. I had this long ordinary, but still fun, dream. I had been dreaming it for like 30 minutes. I only remember something like half the dream right now, but I do remember that I remembered at least twice as much before. (I have so many dreams, hard to remember them all!) Therefor I guess I had been dreaming for at least 30 minutes. (Have you noticed that I pretty often having troubles sticking to what is really important? Please excuse me. That's the way I am! smiles) Well, where was I? Yeah, when I become lucid and the weirdness begun. I was only lucid in something like 6-7 second, then I begun awaken and the dream faded away. So I used this technique I've read about here at The Lucidity Institute's homepage. Don't know the name of it but it's very simple. When you feel you awakening you just lay totally still and try to relax. Don't move or anything. Then you soon find yourself back in the dream, or maybe another. This is a technique I've used a few times before and it has worked. And so did it this time. I was back in the dream where I had left. But after a few seconds I lost it again and knew I was awakening. I used the same technique once again and came back to the dream. It continued, but only for a few seconds. The exact thing happened again. I used the technique and was back in the dream but only for a few seconds. This was beginning to be a little frustrated. This time I allowed myself to wake up a little more. A few thoughts ran through my head like: "Argh! Let me stay in the dream!" I opened my eyes a little and saw that I had begun making marks on the end of my bed for every time I had awakened. Seven marks so far. "Nice," I thought, because it was beginning to get hard to remember how many times I really had awakened. I used the relaxing technique and soon I was back in my dream. This time it took like 15-16 seconds until it faded away. I made another mark and I used, you know what, and was back in the dream. But this time it was like a gap in time. Because I had left the yard where my earlier short lucid dreams had taken place, and now I was going away from the yard in a car. The first two-three seconds wasn't really lucid and I don't remember more then I sat in a care. But then I become lucid again. The car changed to a pillow (don't ask me why) and with this under my chest I flew along the country road at 3-4 meters height. I felt free and it was pretty exciting because it was going rather fast. In earlier dreams I have had some problems with maintaining velocities over 20-30 km/h. Which wasn't the chase now. I flew along the road for maybe 9-10 seconds and my lucidity slowly decrease. But then suddenly I remembered what I was supposed to do. My village! The picture of the village flashed by in front of my eyes. Now I was suddenly very lucid and could think much clearer. And even if I really had been looking forward to visit my middle age village I was thrilled by the high speed I could fly in and decided to try visiting the village later on. Now when I could fly this fast I wanted to see how high I could fly. That was another thing I had had problems with before. I tried to gain more height, and I did. I kept climbing towards the tree-tops. And when I was almost there my pillow and I was caught by a "upward-going" stream (I hope you understand what I mean) I rose more then 15-20 meters in just a few seconds. It was such a wonderful feeling! So real! I got butterflies in my stomach and begun panting. Just the feeling you get when you jump bungy-jump or ride a great roller coaster. And now a incredibly view lay in front of me. A beautiful landscape filled with big magnificent deciduous trees, well-managed lawns, pools and impressive luxury homes. The whole landscape was sloping down to a blue lake glittering in the sunshine. A wonderful view! The butterflies in my stomach were still there when I looked down on the lawn under me. Now I realised how high up I really was and I got an awesome adrenaline rush. It's so real! And I began shaking in my whole body. Not by fear. Rather by happiness. I slowly begun floating down in circles, watching the lawn beneath with its tennis court and glittering pool. I looked on the big white luxurious home, probably designed by some famous architect. Slowly my lucidity disappeared and I woke up. First I thought that I maybe could use the "relax-technique" in order to get back to the dream. But I had already moved and I realised I was too awaken so the technique would probably fail. I looked at the clock. I think it said 13:13. Maybe 01:13. (not sure) It was time to get out of bed. When I dressed I suddenly heard sounds from the upper floor. Mystical. As far as I knew I was alone in the house. My parents were in Finland, and they shouldn't be back yet. In fact they shouldn't be back until a weak or something. I went upstairs and found my dad sitting in the coach in front of the TV eating chips. It looked as my parents had come home earlier. But where was my mom then? And the weirdest thing was that my dad was dressed in exactly the same rags as a beggar on that "lajv" I mentioned earlier. The whole thing seemed fishy. I went out in the kitchen to see if I could find mom. I looked at the balcony but no mom. Weird"

Then I woke up. Filled with happiness I lay there in my bed smiling. Was that weird or what? I looked at the clock. 13:15. Even more weird! How could I know how much the clock was in my dream? And so exact! I mean, it had gone a minute or two since I in my dream looked at the clock. Sure, I remember I looked at the clock 11:35. But that was almost two hours ago! Then I looked at the end of my bed. No marks. "Seven," I remembered. But when I counted I could only get the number of times I had awaken to five. And the more I thought about it the surer I became. I hadn't awaken a single time. Or had I? I still don't really know. Maybe the first awakening was real, maybe not. I'm at least sure of that the following times I awakened I only dreamed it. And I only dreamed that I used my technique to get back in the lucid dream. Weird isn't it? At least I think so" Ahh" the dream world are indeed strange and bizarre, and unpredictable! And so fascinating! I love it! I just love it!

Linus et al,

We're all addicted to the strange and bizzare. How about this one?

So I'm laying there after returning to bed at 4.30am, and I feel this friendly cat nuzzling my face and purring. I'm completely aware that it's a dream cat, and am marvelling at the verisimilitude of the.....what?....hallucination? My eyes are closed so I can't see it, but I tell you it's a real damn cat. I nuzzle it back (I like cats) and it purrs even louder, and nuzzles even harder. It's really nice, and the exchange of affection gets pretty intense. I get the distinct feeling that I can turn into the cat - but decline.

So then I finally get to sleep and spend the rest of the night in a non-lucid, making love to an ex girlfriend to whom I am no longer attracted (to put it mildly). I should have stuck with the cat.

Yours forever

Alan T

Hi!

Yeah... we're all addicted. How can you not be? smiles

This is another fun thing that happened to me more then a year ago. I was in a lucid dream. I hadn't been lucid for so long when I begun regaining conscious. Some parts of the dream were beginning to fade away and the whole dream kind of slowed down and it looked like the people around me moved in show motion. (By the way, that's something I been wondering about. Is it "show motion" or "slow motion'? Or can you use both expressions?) Very well, the cool thing was that I could hear my mom from the kitchen upstairs, making breakfast. But I was still in the dream. Sure, the dream sort of lagged and my vision was pretty dim and I had troubles moving. But I was still there, while my hearing had already returned to the awaken world. I managed to struggle my way back to the dream and it sort of started up again. The people begun moving in normal speed and the dim spots disappeared. Sadly I lost my lucidity shortly thereafter and the dream continued as a ordinary dream.

A similar thing happened earlier this year. In March I think. I dreamed I was checking my hotmail. Then I suddenly got a new mail. It was very urgent and was blinking red. I opened it up to read it. But instead there was a map inside. A blueprint picturing the bottom floor of our house. And in my parents bedroom, on my moms side of the bed, there was a red dot blinking. "Movement discovery, movement discovery,' a computer-like voice repeated. The same text was blinking on the blueprint. I knew the dot marked where my mom was. For a few seconds the dot blinked at the same spot, but then it begun moving out from the bedroom. I woke up and heard my mom pass outside my door.

I construe this as I must have heard my mom getting up, (my bedroom lay next to my parents). But it wasn't enough to wake me up. Instead this information which the brain had received was fused together with the dream. This dream wasn't a lucid one, but it was still a funny experience'

Loud Music and LDs

Two nights in the last fortnight I've had multiple lucid dreams (4 and 3 respectively) trying MILD - never had more than two per night before. Otherwise I had only one night with an LD in the period.

On the two success nights I'drunk quite a bit and gone to events with very loud pop music and people bobbing around.

Normally if I drink sometimes I have an LD more usually not, there does not seem to be a correlation.

However I normally never go to events with loud music, my head was spinning in bed, and ears numbish next day.

Any thoughts on loud music?

Owen

Hehe" That's weird.

It reminds me of a dream I had in March this year. Before bed I had decided I should dream about something "fantasy". Like dwarfs and elves. I was dreaming an ordinary dream when I suddenly remembered: "Yeah, I was supposed to dream about dwarfs and elves." I froze the dream and changed the scene. I imagined a little inn out in a pine tree forest. It was like a program, like a map-editor. I remember I wrote this mystical numbers to make it look like night and to make it start raining. When I was ready I watched my creation like a god. It was very cosy. Seeing that little lonely inn out in the forest spreading light and warmth out in the night and the cold rain. Then I entered the dream. Inside the inn a dwarf sat in front of the fire place telling a story. He was surrounded by 8-9 men all with stoops filled with mead. Quietly I walked through the little inn and sat down on a stool near the fireplace. The dwarf were telling something about a magic artefact he had been searching after up in the mountains. It was very snug and the atmosphere was incredibly. But after 2-3 seconds this Danish rap music begun sounding pretty loud. I tried to make it stop but it continued. I rose and looked around to see from where it came. It sort of destroyed the middle-age feeling you know. I was very angry and shouted: "Stop this crap! This is MY dream! I have the control! Stop it!" I remember that the dwarf was very angry too and told me to sit down and shut up otherwise he would go get his axe. I used all my force to try stop the music but instead I woke up. I guess all the brain activity was too much in order to stay in REM-sleep.

Greetings, Oneironauts!

A recent lucid dream to share:

I am alone, hurrying towards the interior stairway of a small building that leads to the first floor when my clothes snag on the wooden banister and I am flung abruptly into a horizontal position. There I remain as if frozen in flight, hoping some of the participants of the Dreaming and Awakening retreat will pass by. I plan to ask them if I am offering a good opportunity for reality check.

Stephen peeks around a corner and smiles at my antics, apparently not finding my behavior odd in the least. But when no one else ventures by, I attempt to untangle myself. That's when I notice the extra set of legs.

Well, what do you know! I'm delighted and amused as the situation suddenly becomes clear -- This is a dream!

I wander into a room around the corner which turns out to be filled with curiosities. A few moments later, I awaken.

Note: For several weeks prior to this dream, I had been helping to organize Lucidity Institute's Dreaming and Awakening retreat at Kalani Retreat Center in Hawaii. I had been in frequent correspondence with the prospective participants and had written to them and commented to Stephen that, although I would be unable to attend in person, I would surely be there in spirit and in dreams.

I have never been to Kalani Retreat Center, so the actual setting of the dream was unfamiliar, but this didn't occur to me at the time. I proceeded as if it was perfectly reasonable for me to be there.

I did not find it strange that I remained in a frozen flying position. In fact, I was excited because I thought it would surely look odd to anyone passing by. I was hoping to prompt retreat participants into questioning their state.

Stephen's reaction likewise didn't seem strange because he's always very supportive of my elfish antics during the Dreaming and Awakening workshops.

This dream held many emotions. I felt: Hurried (to go where?) Surprised at being flung into a flying position Excited to play the part of the impish elf (posing as a dream anomaly!) Pleased that Stephen caught and enjoyed my intended antics Hopeful a participant would pass by and be inspired to do a reality check Slightly disappointed that no participants ventured by Surprised to discover an extra set of legs Amused and delighted to realize I was dreaming Curious and explorative in the shop

And happy to have been there in spirit and in dream!

I hope those who were in more physical attendance will share their reflections with us soon!

Aloha & Sugarcane Dreams, Keelin

On 13 Aug 01, I dreamed that I was walking around the exterior of a large building looking for the entrance. I was struck by the building's beauty and realized that I was dreaming. I wanted to pay attention to the details of the building to remember the beauty when I was later awake. The walls were creamy white, with gold and silver/gray adornments. My eyes were especially attracted to the silver/gray.

I did not remember the dream upon awakening. I awoke by alarm clock and remembered the dream on the drive to work.

A question about visualisation

Over a month ago now I discovered quite by chance a type of meditation that was totally unexpected and new to me. Surfing the net I cannot discover any discussion of this topic.

If I daydream, I see transient images, the face of a friend, my bedroom, the town centre and so on. I read somewhere some time ago that there is a neurophysiological explanation for the transience. The experience is quite different from looking at something while awake or in an LD where the recollection later is of observing consciously a continuing solid image.

Since becoming interested in LDs I generally take one or two short naps (10-20 minutes) per day. I don't have LDs during these naps but I have increased my skill in maintaining myself in light sleep and being able to recall brief dreamlets. It is a kind of meditation. It is fun and I like to think it helps my LDing skills. I recollect these dreamlets as I do NLDs, but from time to time, and more often recently, I will see a scene or a figure or a face lucidly. By this I mean that my recollection is that I was viewing the scene lucidly. I see such lucid scenes mixed up with NLDreamlets more frequently during the late hours of the night. Sometimes the images seem to crystallize into solidity before my eyes, remain for a couple of seconds and then vanish.

At the beginning of July I was sitting in a chair very relaxed taking one of my naps and I found that I was observing foliage lucidly, part of a leafy tree from a distance. The image was clear but rather dim, as though viewed through darkened glass. To my surprise I found that I could generate such images at will. It is not like day-dreaming, more that I think vaguely of foliage, a bit appears, then disappears, then a different foliage image appears. Then a very sharp image will appear and remain for a couple of seconds. There is much less tendency for the visualisation to disappear, as would be the case with normal daydreaming about a specific tree. I call this my "foliage meditation'. It is difficult to explain but it seems that in the foliage meditation I focus very hard on the concept of the image, but not on the image itself which, unlike a daydream, I let arise by itself.

My ability to do this foliage meditation varies with time. During the day it is easy to get started, but the images are less strong and less interesting. During the late hours of the night it is difficult to get started but the images are much more vivid once I do get going. I have now extended my repertoire to include, grass, the sea, mountains, walls and roads and it is particularly easy to generate a tunnel. I have some success with buildings but often they look abnormal. I cannot yet generate faces or human or animal figures. There seems to be a simple common feature in what I can do ' repeated structures ' the leaves on a tree, bricks in a wall, the extension of a surface. The details are crystal clear, for example in blades of grass or the roughness of a surface. Another very interesting feature is that I can, as observer, move in relation to what I am looking at during the few seconds that the images persist. However if, for example, I am looking at a linear wall, the movement will almost always be at an angle to the direction of extension of the wall. Very bright lights can also occur and illuminate part of the scene. The movement interests me because of the association of movement and REM sleep areas of the brain (as hypothesies for spinning success).

This meditation seems to have a relaxing effect on my body, but my mind seems to stay very alert and activated, until I fall asleep doing it. I often get an expanded feeling in my ears, temple and just above my nose. Since carrying out the meditation before I go to sleep at night I have had a few LDs at the end of what must be my first REM period.

During the late hours of the night my foliage meditation images can give way to normal hypnogogia dreamlets or mixes up with them. For example, one night recently I was trying to generate and descend a spiral stone staircase (a repeated structure). Then it was taken out of my hands, the stairs gave way to a stone floor and I saw three flames burning to my right and drifted round so they were at my front. Then I awoke (assuming I was not already awake).

Does anyone have similar experience or any suggestions for experiments?

Owen

I would like to hear what the tunnel(s) tend to look like, and what if anything you have seen going through the tunnel. Also, if you are still expanding your repertoire, could you create a library or study hall where information could be accessed? And maybe a librarian(s) there to help disseminate the information?

I find myself wondering: what question(s) would I want to ask?

Mary,

When you talk of libraries and stuff like that I worry that I have exaggerated my power in relation to the phenomena I describe. So far I have not seen moving objects, though I can move in relation to the scene, so I am far from producing or opening a book!

The tunnel is interesting though. At first it curves away to the right or left. I can get it to snake around as a simulation of moving along it though I do not feel any vivid sense of movement. Usually it is easy to see the walls of the tunnel as being rough like a stone cave. When the tunnel straightens off I can see the circular exit in the distance. It can be a filled circle of light or of dark. I must emphasize that although I can see clear detail my experience is no way near as vivid as an LD.

Perhaps you had the same thought as I did when I found it easy to generate a tunnel? Is it in any way related to the tunnel that many pass along in near death experiences?

Owen

Owen,

Some half-formed thoughts on your foliage etc: If we stare at fixed randomised textures, such as cracks in a ceiling, or the patina on an old wall. pictures emerge. The same goes for staring into a fire, or at cloudscapes - only these become moving pictures. There seems to be a brain mechanism which is triggered when such textural images are input for a specific period. It's as if the brain is unable to maintain observation of anonymous textures for long without trying to make something of them. This has to be connected to allusive thought - that is the ability to access seemingly random concepts and synthesise them into something meaningful. It's the essence of creativity, really. Your images of foliage, and the textured walls of a tunnel seem to fit this criteria.

Cheers

Alan T

Owen, I do not share your worry, ("I worry that I have exaggerated my power in relation to the phenomena I describe.") To the contrary, I am impressed with your diligence and perseverance in exploring LDs and altered states.

When I was talking about libraries and books, I was alluding to the concept of the akashic records, aka, the hall of records. And I was wondering how things would go if your mind focussed on that concept.

Yes, in answer to your question: "Is it in any way related to the tunnel that many pass along in near death experiences?" I do think they are related, and I think tunnel travelling, so to speak, is a skill that can be trained. The most difficult part of the training, I think, is to willingly come back once one goes through the tunnel, out the other end, and experiences bliss. So many people who have experienced NDE have mentioned that they did not want to return, but they were told to, or suddenly they were back in their body.

I have nowhere near your persistence these days in exploring altered states. (More caught up in hearth fire karma--in other words, raising children, running a household, and working.) If I were more diligent, and was exploring the kinds of visualizations you seem to be describing, I would like to play with this technique before sleep:

1. Choose a phrase or word, hold it in your mind to the exclusion of all else, until it evokes an image. Hold both the phrase and image in your mind until the image is strong.
2. Let go of the phrase, and hold only on the image until it evokes a feeling. Hold on to both image and feeling until the feeling is strong.
3. Let go of the image, and hold only onto the feeling, then gradually let go of the feeling, and hold on to nothing.

Sometimes images can have more than one part, sometimes movement, sometimes they are simply one simple symbol. I began with simple phrases and simple images. Different phrases will conjure very different images.

A favorite phrase to use is "I will bring to thine remembrance all things, whatsoever thou hast need of, even unto the foundations of the world." (A Bible quote) I have had some very transcendent LDs using this phrase--other phrases have had great effects also.

Fruitful dreams!

Hi, lucid fellows

This one is my LD for Marcello. Thought, I could post it here, once I have it translated.

May the veil of ND fall for all of us! And unveiled shall be the pulchritude in all of us! (I can be pathetic, eh?)

Dear Marcello.

This is my latest LD. I hope it helps you on your studies. The special thing about this one is for me, that I have been "invited" to a lucid dream, after I didn't catch the cue: " ... it's just an illusion ..." Dream characters are very rarely so helpful, as this veiled woman. Keep on good work.

Yours Ralf

MOST RECENT LUCID DREAM

Age: 36 Gender: M Country: Germany Date Today: 29.8.2001

We would like you to write down the last lucid dream you remember having, whether it was last night, last month, or last year. But first please tell us the date this dream occurred: 18.08.2001. Then tell us what time of day you think you recalled it: 07:00 am. Then tell us where you were when you recalled it: Still in bed at home.

Saturday, 18.8.2001

05:00 I awake, but don't write down this non - lucid dream now:

Einladung zum Drachenfest 18082001 #NT #DSA1 #Frau #Religion #Träumen #Musik

Invitation to a Kite - Festival 18082001 #ND #DSA1

I'm sorry, because I don't remember some details. I'm sitting at a table in a yard together with some people, I don't know. As far as I remember only men. The setting seems somewhat Mediterranean. Higher, like on a podium, in front of a houses door, stands a veiled woman. She is very attractive. I think, it is strange, that she is standing there, presenting herself, talking, singing. Her religion shouldn't allow it. Now she is singing "... it's just an illusion..." (Next time I will recognise this obvious cue, that wanted to remind me, that I'm dreaming) In a nice rhythm. Reminds of the band "Eurythmics". Inspired by her singing I start to roll and jump using the red huge gymnastic - ball I'm sitting on. (I use such a ball in waking life) It feels fine to make this movements. Somewhat ecstatic. (They wouldn't be possible in waking life, but I'm not suspiciously.) Now she is ready with singing and says to me: "The Californian kite - festival would be the right thing for you." She turns around and enters the house. I think she will go and pray.

7:00 I awake from this lucid dream:

Luzides Drachenfest 18082001 #NT #LT #DSA3 #Fliegen

Lucid Kite - Festival 18082001 #ND #LD #DSA3

I'm outdoor. To my right ascends a red huge roll out of a copse. I know, that three men are forming a tower inside this roll. I see, how they try to keep the balance. They are ascending further and further, hovering into the skies, like a kite. I can't believe it. That is impossible. Then I must be dreaming! I'm excited, but remember, that I have to stay cool, if I want to stay in the dream. But there are only a few moments left to wonder about the perfect illusion of this dreamscape, the perfect illusion of being physical awake. I awake and write down the keywords of these dreams.

Hands in wall - I managed to do this recently

"........I see scattered small trees growing from the floor. I think this odd and immediately realise that I am dreaming. I continue walking and remember my task to insert hands inside a wall. I look for a suitable place. There are curtains in front of me so I walk and find a better place, to my right, a bare patch of wall. I insert my left hand slowly into the wall and it disappears up to my wrist. I then focus on being unable to do this with my right hand. I push this hand against the wall, which is hard and unyielding. I remove my left hand. I then repeat the whole operation, but this time inserting my right hand and being unable to insert my left. I feel satisfied that I have completed the task. I then decide to walk through the wall. ......"

and it went on a bit longer.

Now a new task I'm thinking on is to simultaneously be able and unable to insert my hand into the wall.

Actually inserting my hands into solid object is training for putting my hand into my chest cavity and gripping my beating heart. I read somewhere of an LDer taking out his eyeballs and moving them around to see how the visual field changed. Suppose you only take out one eye and spin it on the table, what would you see overall?

Owen