Hi, Daniel!

Pleasing paralysed progress. Remember, that the later hours of sleep are best for achieving WILDs.

Yours Ralf

I was at the bookstore today and ran into a book on the Kundalini experience of Gopi Krishna. It is quite inspiring, and he goes into detail of the sensation up the spine and in the head. I'm pretty positive at this point that I am experiencing something of that nature, and what it has to do with lucidity and the paralysis witnessed before. Does anyone know whether this is currently under any study in the United States? Well, take care everyone, Justin Doucette

Dear Justin

I don't know anything about studies, but I'm glad you are still into the lucid thing. How are you? Sorry, that I didn't understand your last dream report. What about new experiences at the border of waking and dreaming? And what does Gopi Krishna say or what do you think about the connection of Kundalini, sleep paralysis and lucidity?

Careful with that axe, Eugen.

Oder wie wir in Deutschland sagen: Vorsicht ist die Mutter der Porzellankiste. (Precaution is the mother of the porcelain box)

Lucid explorations

Yours Ralf

Hey Ralf, I'm doing o.k., some days are healthier than other, trying to maintain a balance of both worlds now. Still having very intense episodes of these strange occurances with electricity in my spinal region and head. I had one just last night which lasted for a while. During the time I was lucid and I tried to put my hand to my head to feel if it was in fact physical, of course there in lies the problem; was it my physical hand feeling this sensation in my head or was it my lucid dreaming hand imagining this? So I went back and forth during this time trying to figure that out. This is where I am currently. Gopi Krishna is an interesting read, though I am not quite sure he runs parallel to my experience. He induced the sensation through meditation and strict concentration, while I started experiencing this through lucid dreaming and just looking deeply into the subject. The electricity up the spine sounds very close though. He went through alot of struggle integrating the phenomena though, and found it very hard to talk to anyone about it. If your into life stories though I highly reccomend it. Sorry this isn't formatted correctly. Take Care- Justin

Hello, Justin

Pleased to hear you are somewhat better off. If you are not sure about your state, try spinning (rotating the body around any of its axis). If spinning works, you can be sure to be in sleep paralysis or dreaming.

Ralf

Hello everyone, Does anyone have headaches before falling back to sleep. It's strange but I forget to mention that I almost always invariably have a heated up head before falling back to sleep. After the pressure/spinning and the lucid dream that follows, I wake up dazed but without the accompanied headache. Does this (headaches) happen with anyone else experiencing sleep paralysis?

Dear Ed!

Thanks for your very open mail. It is emotionally loaded and interesting. I always wonder, how dreamers come to be lucid very frequently. And your story is different to what I've heard so far. But there are some seemingly common elements, too. There are some LDers , who very frequently dreamt lucid since childhood. And the age of five is the earliest date of LD, I've heard so far. Maybe this has something to do with stages of psychical growth. The age of five and six years is said to be a crucial point in the formation of believe - systems, its the turning point from magical to magical - mythological system (Piaget). Children begin working on subjects like life and death and god. The child begins to learn recognising itself as a part of social system, and it begins to recognise others as social real. This means a finer differentiation of consciousness. It means, too, that it begins to differentiate between inner and outer images, as far as I remember. Without this, it wouldn't be able do discern dreaming and waking.

"I had about 7 or 8 night terrors."

Nearly everyone has had at least one lucid "moment" or dream in his life. And most of this dreamers got lucid in the face of nightmares. This surely is one of the greatest benefits of lucid dreaming: It helps overcoming nightmares. And overcoming nightmares is a great challenge for people, but the chance for deep insights and positive changes.

"...after lying in bed for about an hour. My tounge would go kind of numb, then it would feel like my tounge was a hundred times the size of my mouth, then it would feel like it was a hundredth of the size of my mouth. I would get a very scary feeling inside." "I would be taken to a very dark place in my mind, pitch black and very scary. I would hear about 10 voices coming in all different amplitudes, loud, quiet, and all different people saying different things. It felt like I was made of air and flying through the darkness."

This sounds like sleep - paralysis. This is what we do to enter a dream consciously: Lying still, relaxing, winding down until we are drawn into a dream (wish it would be that easy). Certainly this may occur, if you don't want to see any images, that remind you of the horrible happening, if you don't want to fall asleep and dream. Then there may be no other way, than to perceive sleep paralysis while the mind stays awake. After the onset of sleep paralysis the brain is cut off from sensory input. Then the perceived body image is made up by pure memory and very likely subject to distortions. Many people relate to this distortions as "OBE" (Out of the Body - Experience, these often include also acoustical weird perceptions), other simply refer to this perception as a dream body. And as you certainly know, there are many different forms of dream - bodies. But most are frightened, when they experience this involuntary. R.A. Monroe, one of the most famous OOBers, has been one of them, he encountered his fears, developed his skills and has certainly influenced many people around the world (like me) to care for the nights experiences, to go on an inner journey. And sleep paralysis is, too, the stage, where "hallucinations", we call them dreamlets or hypnagogic imagery, take place as an expression of REM onset. It is possible, that no images appear, only sounds or tactile perceptions. But if I take a close look, you say, that these are typical experiences. In most cases, that I've experienced, these images and sounds are never the same and they vanish, when I intend to wake up. I just think, maybe you developed this kind of lucidity and control to prevent fearful images or to "morph" them in a "magical" way. And certainly you have had a good reason to do so.

"She said I appeared conscious the entire time, but I wasn't, it went from black and scary, not knowing where I was, to being in the bathtub, like I woke up in the bathtub."

Maybe there is /was something different going on with you. But it is said, that the processes of physical body sleeping (paralysed) and waking (moving) is sometimes not parallel to the mind /brain waking and dreaming. There are the phenomena of sleepwalking and talking in sleep. Normally sleep paralysis prevents us from acting out our dreams physically. But I've heard of people who awoke and attacked their wife sleeping in the same bed. The just dreamed being attacked by a giant snake and so on... The complex sleep / wake process can be disturbed in many ways. People who experience sleep paralysis after waking up (i.e. mentally, but not physically) are often very scared, because they are unable to move. But they can learn to manage and enjoy, maybe use this situation for personal growth.

"my goal in life is to get things back to the way they were when I was 8, no worries, just enjoying life with no thoughts of money and all the crap that goes with it."

This has been my goal for some years, too. Today I'm happy to experience things that weren't possible, when I was eight. The light is not as fresh as it was, but much finer, deeper. And "lucid" dreaming means being lucid, being light all day long...

"Thanks for your input Ralf, I hope I can help other people out with the experiences I have had with dreams and hope you can help me figure out what I am searching for about them."

I threw in my few cents. This is not the place for psychoanalysis, it is just sharing thoughts and experiences. But you can be sure, everybody here wants to help and that you are welcome. I'm still searching and finding and hope this may last...

Yours Ralf

P.S. I posted the answer to the most appropriate thread (IMHO). It is good, to be tidy in this case, else it is not easy to find this worthy discussion later on / for other people.

hey got an email from the Discovery Channel quite a while back about sleep paralysis, i have had it for over 15 years. answered some questions they sent me and now they are interested in interviewing me for a documentary they are doing on it! Not sure of the details yet but I will let you know what i find out! Kelly aka Webdiva http://www.webdiva.org http://www.dreamjoural.org

Hi fellow dreammonkeys

Here is an OBE I had yesterday during a nap. These (so far) always happen for me during sleep paralysis episodes, almost always when I'm initially falling asleep, and most often during naps.

Adastra!

Thanks for your report. I'm not quite sure, but I think, these sleep paralysis is a gift. And it seems, that the more experienced lucid dreamers get, the more often these things on the border of dreaming and awakening happen. What an opportunity for explorations! You displayed a fine lucidity while recognising all these false awakenings. And it is another good example of application of prolonging techniques.

Hope to see more of your reports, soon.

Yours Ralf

Humorous hypnagogic images! I was messing around the other day trying to add to hypnagogic images that appeared in my mind's eye. I saw the image of an old lady's face flash before me, and it spoke in a man voice.

Then upon seeing an image of a garbage can I tried to peek inside it. My view shifted to inside it and I expected to see garbage, but Oscar the grouch from sesame street popped out, and said, " Man, this place sucks!"

I didn't get into a full on lucid dream, but these amusing flashes of imagery were somewhat fulfilling, suggesting to me that I don't always need to be ultra immersed in the dream to have fun. I came out of it laughing, as it were.

Hi Ryan!

When I started to work on WILDs I had funny hypnagogia, too. I was so afraid of crossing the gap. Always on getting close to loosing awareness of physical body I was frightened and threw myself back to perceiving physical body. One time, on the edge of dreamland again, I saw a cartoon like midget running through my field of vision, screaming full of fear. I awoke somewhat frustrated again, but with a smile on myself.

Ralf

lol It's funny what the mind comes up with sometimes when we take the time to watch it.

Hello, dreambodies. I would like some advice on using hynogogic images as a stepping stone to lucidity. Every time I get one, I lose it immediately. I don't know why this is, and I'd like to get beyond it. I know you need to stay calm, and I believe I do that. I read in one of Stephen LaBerge's books about learning the process of taking hynogogic images and developing them into lucids. I'd love to do this. I love hypnogogic images - they're so vivid and so seemingly out of nowhere. They come easily to me, but will not stay! This moring I had one where monks were launching a wooden boat into green-brown water, and I really wanted to go with it. Does anyone have any tips? I would LOVE to hear them. Thanks, Kate

P.S - One problem with drifting off into the hypnogogic image is that as soon as I realize it's not real, I snap into full wakefullness, especially if there is sound attached. It almost seems as if there's fear involved - as if maybe on some level I'm afraid my consciousness will be carried off forever, or something? Please post if you have any advice for me, or experiences to share. Thanks, Kate

Hi Kate. I think snapping into full wakefullness after a vivid image or sound may be due to lack of relaxation. With practice, provided you can remain awake, relaxed, and minimize movement of the body, one can literrally cycle through tons of hypnagogic images, watching them come and go. For me it is usually that at a given moment I become more immersed in one of these images, and once immersion takes place try to become active in the dream. Lately my practice has been to ignore them completely, simply remaining focused on the relaxed state of awareness that I am in. I think this is more crucial than trying to jump into the first image that pops into your mind, as that rarely works. For me anyway. As for sounds, for some reason they can be a little more vivid and freaky. It is easy to tell that a image in your mind did not come from the real world, but a sound is more tricky. It often seems as if there is something in your house or nearby, something that shouldn't be there. This causes an instant concern involving a response from your physical body. They key I would say is to work with it and learn to recogonize where the sounds are coming from. I have come to look forward to sounds because they usually signify to me that Im am very close to entering a dream state lucidly. More often than not I have success entering a dream state after I have begun to hear things. I used to have similar fears of going into intense dream states and never coming back. Not sure why really, but I assure you, in 17 years or so of dreaming aware, I have always come back. I liken it to just a fear barrier of the mind that needs to be overcome. Anyway I meant to answer this post a few months back, but personal issues got in the way and.. well you know... Good luck with the wilds! Dream Free!

Creating music through hypnagogic pre dream states. I was playing my guitar the other day, trying to just sit down and invent some new tunes. I was dry, I tell you, creatively dry. That night I decided to focus on guitar music as I was falling asleep. I often hear sounds during the hypnagogic stage when inducing wilds. So what better way to let my mind make up something new than to tap my subconscious a bit? So I just lay down and set my focus on music, I intended to hear some guitar. I had noticed before that I could steer the influence of hypnagogic imagery fairly easily, as long as I didn't try too hard. I just sort of casually focus on what I want to see or hear, and sometimes it pops up. In this case I wanted to hear a new rhythm on my guitar, preferably one that I could play. Sure enough about 10 minutes after I lay down and began focusing, this really neat sounding guitar riff filled my ears. It was short, just short enough that I could remember it. I repeated it over and over in my head as I excitedly jumped out of my bed and went to my computer to tab out the sound. I played it on my guitar until I simulated the sound close enough to where it sounded pretty good. I just hope it was truly original and not some other guitar that I had heard somewhere before and sub consciously memorized. I didn't recognize it as anyone else's tune, so I'd say it was a success. I lay back down to do it again with some interesting side effects. I had about three false awakenings after hearing another cool tune. I thought I was getting up to record the results. If only I had been state testing like a good boy! Ah, well. I hope to eventually compose an entire song like this, and perhaps have a lucid dream or 10 in the process! Anyway I just wanted to share this with everyone, and I wonder what other applications hypnagogic states could be utilized for. Dream lucid!

Kate, I agree with Ryan about the fear factor in WILDs - particularly when there's some inexplicable noises attached, as you say. And also that feeling of dissolving can be spooky, too. But nowadays I welcome such sensations because I know they might just turn into an LD. I try my best to let the process happen, and just lie there being a fuzzy ball of vibration, ignoring the thought that there might be a clumsy burglar shuffling around outside the door - or whatever. Sometimes I can lift my arms up and slowly wave them around (knowing they are not my real arms) trying to encourage the formation of a dream 'body'. This ruse hasn't worked yet, but twice I have seen a shimmering pattern in the darkness, 'realised' it is the underside of a water surface, and broken through up into a good LD.

Here's something I shared in an email to Keelin yesterday:

I've been experiencing something I wanted to share on the forum, but I'd need an account for that -- with all the other expenses I think I'll wait, and the board looks pretty quiet in certain areas anyway. The topic was what I call half-dreamspace, a place of light trance, very similar to that time when we're almost falling asleep -- or almost awake in the morning. It's a place I started reaching the first time I decided to meditate, with no mantra or specific visualization. I seemed to almost go so sleep, eyes closed, yet "hang" halfway there, fully aware of my physical surroundings through touch, sound, etc. But at the same time, a part of me would experience something very similar to dreaming: images and stories, as well as active participation in them very often. Sometimes, I would experience those in a lucid or quasi-lucid way, sometimes not. Same thing for remembering the whole thing: sometimes and sometimes only some of it. Since then, this has happened in a variety of places and time, pretty much regularly (almost all the time): network chiropractor sessions, massage, in the morning as I wake up, right after sex (those are the most powerful) and simply when I take "power naps" of 20-30 minutes yet never really fall asleep. The other aspect is that those short "naps" in the last example is that they are extremely restful.

So, what is it? What do you think? Keelin tells me those are Hypnagogic imagery, but they appear to be more like dreamlets than imagery and a lot of what people described in the archives...

A bientot et avec amour!

Philippe

Welcome Philippe, What you're explaining does sound like hypnagogic imagery. This is an excellent door for moving directly from waking consciousness into dream consciousness. When I view this imagery I notice the following: at first there is not much to watch but if I'm patient I start to see some scarce random images. After this starts it is not long until the random images develop into somewhat more concrete images but still only filling up a portion of the darkness in my mind (for example last night I noticed an array of dim lights that came together and changed into the shape of a person leaning up against a window sill. The edges of the image seemed to fade into the surrounding darkness and in general the image only filled a part of my viewing area). After this starts to happen (and if I can remain calm and unattached) it is not long before one of the images expands into an entire dreamscape. If I can calm my excitement I will then be drawn directly into dream consciousness, fully lucid. About a week ago I had the highest level LD of my life using this technique (I posted it in the misc LD section if you're interested).

I make a definite distinction between watching the imagery and visualizing it. Visualizing is active and watching is passive. Visualizing tends to take me into a dream but I seldom remain lucid.

I find that the two most difficult aspects of using the hypnagogic imagery approach are: to be patient; and to stay passive. The patient part can be overcome if you're not too tired and are determined to succeed but the passive part is very subtle. I find that if I say something to myself like "relax", "hold on", or "wow" then the image suddenly disappears. From this fact I believe that it is important to quiet the voice in my head. I also notice that if I move my eyes in order to focus on the image (for example if the image is created off to the side of my internal field of vision and I look over directly at it) the image again disappears. From this I believe that it is important to maintain an equal awareness of my entire field of internal vision without focusing on any one part. Finally I notice that any emotional response I have to the images will also cause them to evaporate.

This is just like any skill that must be practiced and developed but I believe it is one of the most powerful techniques for achieving high level LDs.

Just some food for thought. Thomas

Thomas

Thanks for that description of how to enter dreams using hypnagogic imaginary. How did you learn to stay calm and passive, empty?

Ralf

Thanks for the feedback, Thomas! So yes, those must be hypnagogic imagery. What are those supposed to be anyway? (I don't have the book yet, and I'm in Canada until the end of Jan, which makes it a bit trickier to have it delivered here. Anyone interested in sending me their book and I'll have a new one sent to them? We can them switch back at the retreat or just keep our present copies) So yes, so far the most powerful variety (and least lucid) are the ones I experience after sex and powerful orgasms (anyone noticed that it makes a difference to them). I never quite go "under" for more than a few minutes at a time, and I seem to be able to control whether or not I really want to go to sleep. Also, these seem to be similar to some images I have seen through the use of enthe0genics in the past, those "journeys" that often happen for a few seconds/minutes when you close your eyes. Very interesting images or short dreamlets, and also often very random, like movie previews. I've never tried to dive into dreamscape from there and try staying lucid -- I'm not sure I'm always lucid when I have those hypnagogic images -- but it's worth a try. Any recommendations on how to do it?

Thanks!

A bientot et avec amour,

Philippe

Ok, just tried it again. I lied on the bed, called for a 10 minutes power nap, and closed my eyes. There's a immediate increased sensitivity to sound which then fades later, and then thoughts just come and go and then "quiet down" until whatever comes, comes. I can't immadiately remember the images that came, other than a feeling (as almost always) that they were "appropriate", like thoughts that needed to happen and my head was just too full of conscious thoughts to leave space for those images. Also, there's often a sense of "under" or "not-under". A difference in body temperature (lower when under), breathing (more conscious, as if I'm coming up from being underwater, similar to actually breathing underwater when in a dream -- at least when I semi-lucidly decide to try) and general awareness of my surroundings (not that it ever goes away completely, just that I'm focused on something else -- if someone comes in the room, I'm instantly aware of it). Then after about 10 minutes, I came back, breathing more rapidly and profoundly, opened my eyes, seeing little twinkles in my field of vision, then got up, quite rested (probably close to a 2-3 hour nap).

A bientot et avec amour,

Philippe

Ralf, The act of staying calm and passive is definitely still a work in progress for me. I have noticed a couple of other characteristics about hypnagogic imagery that I should mention. First, if I am physically or mentally tired when I lay down the images come almost immediately but if I am not tired I have to wait. The problem with being tired is that although the images come quick I usually slip quickly into deep sleep with little hope of moving into a LD. The hurdle to being awake (not tired) is to remain patient and passive. Once the images start coming it is easier to remain passive after a few practice sessions but when nothing is happening my mind gets restless. I find myself thinking about what I am doing rather than just doing it. For example, I think "am I relaxed" or "nothing is happening" and so on. I believe that thinking (in words or pictures) keeps the hypnagogic images suppressed. Right now this is the biggest hurdle for me. If I get to the point where images start to come it gets a little easier. I think that the first breakthroughs are to realize what disrupts the images once they start and I listed what I believe those to be in my last post. Once the images come and tiredness is not an issue it is easier to stay interested and relaxed. You go through a phase of accidentally destroying the images but this gets easier. For example, once I was noticing the scattered images moving around and when they came together they formed a menacing looking face. Suddenly the face opened its eyes and looked right at me while simultaneously appearing to quickly approach me. This surprised me and I felt a little twitch in my body and the image was gone and I had to wait a few minutes for the random, scattered images to start again.

I am curious if anyone else is experimenting with this type of LD incubation.

Thomas

Thomas,

Just this week, I have made a devoted effort to utilize the hypnogogic state to induce my lucid dreams. This comes after being inspired by a chapter on Tibetan Dream Yoga described in Patricia Garfield's book "Creative Dreaming'. I had given the white dot meditation described in LaBerge's "Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming" a brief try months ago but had abandoned it for other methods, up until now.

I've found my hypnogogic state quite active most of the time and, for me, a most entertaining way to fall asleep than just plopping down on the pillow. Like you, I'm finding out how delicate of a balance it is between being passive towards the imagery and falling asleep. Using the white dot technique to focus my awareness has kept me from falling asleep too quickly while simultaneously allowing for the passive viewing of imagery. The white dot maintains the center of focus while hypnogogic images form and dissolve in the periphery of vision. With my intention set and excited about this new approach to lucid dream induction, I successfully had a lucid dream two nights ago after only two days of using the white dot technique.

I've been attempting this technique while lying down for bed on my back. I'm trying to do a WILD and feel that this is the best position for it. Am I right or wrong about that? Now, I normally do not sleep on my back and have been finding it difficult to do so. After a few minutes or so I loose sensation of my limbs, etc. to the point where it becomes almost maddening. I find that I have to roll over onto my side to get comfortable. Maybe I'll give it more time this weekend since I'll be able to sleep in and don't have to worry about loosing sleep just lying there.

Rich M.

Rich, Very interesting. I will read up the white dot technique tonight. As far as position goes, I find that lying on my right side is the best postion for WILDs in general. I think that lying on your back is a good postion as well but when I do so my body almost always falls asleep before my mind and I start hearing myself start to snore. This distracts me. I don't have this problem when lying on my side. Also I believe the Tibetan Dream Yoga methods advise males to lie on thier right side and females on their left side.

Thomas

Hi, Thomas,

thanks for details on how to do it. I guess an inportant factor is the balance of REM -mood and alert mind, which I think can be found by experimenting with sleep cycle (that has been done / studied already). Like I wrote elsewhere, I still experience waking up after 5 - 6 hours of sleep and then trying for WILD is the best time.

Rich,

I've experimented with the white dot, too. Found it quite helpful. I did lie on my back in my first years of practice, but then came to a point, where snoring disturbed me. Had to learn to lie on side (mostly right side)

Had another try this morning, but was too awake after 7 hours of sleep.

CU later

Ralf

Ralf, Thomas,

Yes, I did lie on my (right) side while performing the white dot technique and it still worked like a charm. I had a good, long LD only two days following the previous one using this technique. I still like lying on my back for a short while until I get that 'body buzz' feeling and then roll over. Great stuff.

Dream on,

Rich M.

From my personal experience,so far the best position to induce WILDs has been when lying on the back. You should try this technique when you're taking a nap, or you're trying a "NAP TECHNIQUE" which is described in LaBerge's study.He noticed that lucidity seemed to come easier in afternoon naps, and he was right. I also noticed that, but my lucidity has come easier in morning naps, when I am lying in my bed and cannot fall asleep .

When lying on your back, the eyes should be positioned 45 degrees in regard to the ceiling.Lie down on your back. Close your eyes, angle them 45 degrees from the ceiling. That should quicken the WILD process as it stimulates ACETYLCHOLINE, the substance which is responsible for falling asleep. The spinal cord is actually flooded with ACETYLCHOLINE during REM sleep.

Nenad

That sounds interesting. You mean 45 degrees in direction to your feet, don't you? Have there been studies on this eye position and acetylcholine? Your words sound in that direction.

I mostly start snoring lying on my back. This is why I re-learned the thing lying on my right side.

For me the early morning serves better, too.

Ralf, when you close your eyes, they should be positioned UPWARD, move them up in direction to the ceiling, not DOWN in direction to your feet.

2 years ago I read about connection between acetylcholine and eye position. Yes, there have been comprehensive studies on that subject, but I cannot remember where I read it.

You should go to: http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/1997/02.06/WeightlessDream.html

and read an interesting article...

Hi Ralf Kate and others..On the subject of hypnogogic images. Are they considered just shapes stars colors [ect] or can they be life images such as streets trees buildings people? or mabey both?.........Well I experianced somthing one morning as I woke I felt very RELAXED after sleeping 5 a half hours I stayed in bed shut my eyes for another 30 to 45 minutes I thought I was awake most of that time because I kept scratching an Itch om my nose and face every once and a while..As I lay there I kept visulizing moving images like I was in a car seeing street corners buildings people trees as If I was driving through town every so often these images would turn into black or grey voids with ocasional paterns on them then back to life images I even once noticed a person on a street corner yell somthing at me And I yelled an answer back at him.I still cant remember what the words were..While laying in bed I was sure I was awake because of the itch on my nose I kept scratching and that 45 minutes went by quick! When I did get up I thought what a waste I dident even fall asleep! Then two minutes later [like magic] I remembered a sizeable non lucid vivid dream that happened sometime in that 45 minutes! And all those moving images were my gradual asent into my dream! It seemed that being very relaxed had a lot to do with my dream happening.. What I liked about my experiance then was the gradual travel of images leading into the dream even though I dident remember it till I woke up! But wait a minute I was awake all that time..or was I? HMMMmmm... tom.

Hey, Tom

Funny travelling along the strands of dreaming and waking and waking in dreams...

There is no sharp definition I know to discern hypnagogic / hypnopompic images from dreamlets. It is reported to be all kinds from blurry formed colours to highly complex geometric forms, to isolated replications of sensoric perceptions (voices, tactile impressions) to clear images and even short scenes.

Once you begin to interact with your hypnagogic images, like you did, you have the chance to enter a dream lucid. This would be called a WILD, wake induced lucid dream. Interesting, you mention the timing of your adventures, because this is what Stephen LaBerge and dreamers all around the world found out, that it is good to wake up after five or six hours of sleep, if you want to induce lucid dreams.

Keep playing on that shore!

Ralf

Hi Tom and Ralf! Tom, that's great that you can engage so much with your hypnagogic images. There is a section in Expl. The World of Lucid Dreaming starting on page 96 (which you probably already know) that gives a technique for becoming lucid through this imagery. I've tried it, but I never seem able to do anything with my own hypnagogic images. I try to concentrate on them but they move very fast and do not linger in my "consciousness." But maybe they will be your best avenue at this time. Your current strong point in terms of getting lucid. I'm sure reports on your progress would be useful to many of us and interesting to all. Good luck, Kate

Hi Ralf..Thanks for a response. So I take it that hypnagogic images arent just colors and paterns they can also be real life images? Also I only sleep 5 or 6 hours a night normaly Is this a disadvantage when trying to learn lucidity in dreams? I also notice that when I have a bad or negitive day it seems to reduce my dream recall does this have a conection?? I also spent a couple of months down in far southern Arizona this past janurary and feburary and my dream recall was super almost every night!! But back in [Boulder Colorado] its up and down [my recall].. That sounds like the location can have an efect? I have another intrest its documenting the paranormal [Ghost Hunting] with cameras camcorders temp divices and your own intuition and sometimes DREAMS are conected..I will be spending a night or two at the [lemp Mansion in St Louis Mo] later this month..There were 5 suicides there all family members they owned the lemp brewing co back in the late eighteen hundreds.[FALSTAF BEER] Whole story of [lemp mansion] on msn.com] Ive been there before but I usualy spent most of the night taking pictures up and down the dark creepy hallways with little time left to sleep.. Now that dreams are important to me and I have exercised my dream recall It will be interesting what dreams I may recall there If I alow myself to sleep in that place! Anyway you say I could find my self in a lucid dream using hypnagogic images the way I did, So Ill keep trying.. cool dreams!! tom

Your welcome, Tom

"So I take it that hypnagogic images arent just colors and paterns they can also be real life images?" Yep!

"Also I only sleep 5 or 6 hours a night normaly Is this a disadvantage when trying to learn lucidity in dreams?" It is better to get enough sleep

"I also notice that when I have a bad or negitive day it seems to reduce my dream recall does this have a conection??" Don't know for sure.

"That sounds like the location can have an efect?" There are many factors in location.

"Anyway you say I could find my self in a lucid dream using hypnagogic images the way I did, So Ill keep trying.. cool dreams!! tom "

Keep us updated on your LD

Ralf

Has anyone else had hypnogogic pets visiting them? A few months ago I was just dozing off, hoping for an LD, when I heard a thump on the floor, then felt a thump on the foot of my bed, then felt little footsteps moving up towards me. I kept my eyes closed because I thought it was an HH, and maybe a prelude to an LD. It was a cat. It snuggled down right alongside my head purring loudly. I felt its tickly fur on my cheek. It was very friendly, and I rather liked it. Then it stopped. After a while I decided that no LD was forthcoming, opened my eyes, and got up to check the doors and windows. The study window was open so I surmised it might have been one of the neighbourhood cats popped in to see what's what - as they do.

Anyway, a few nights ago exactly the same thing happened, only this time the cat was even more affectionate. It kept butting my face and purring fit to bust. Again I maintained my state hoping for an LD, but when it went away I got up and checked the doors and windows again. All were closed so I knew it was a bona fide hypnopussy.

Alan,

I t'ought I t'aw a putty t'at!

Paul

Fortunately, it wasn't 'Schillvesschter', Paul.

Incidentally, the 22 yo daughter of a friend has recently developed a hypnogogic problem. Her flatmates were often woken up at night by screaming, went to her room, and found her cowering in a corner or hiding in the wardrobe. She said that she kept seeing giant spiders on her bed. She went to see a doctor who promptly put her through a battery of tests and prescribed medication. I suggested she also consult this thread.

BTW, I've just done what I quietly deplore others for doing - that is to ask a question that is answered in earlier posts. Back in 1999, a poster commented about feeling a dreamcat jump up on the bed - so it seems to be just an ordinary boring old HH - like being assaulted by succubi or giant spiders.

Alan, my former spouse has also been terrorized recently by hypnogogic sleep paralysis. She sees, hears, and feels an intruder in the bedroom, can't move, like she's being held down,etc. She thinks her house is haunted! I explained to her about SP and hypnogogic hallucinations. Interestingly, she also has drop attacks, often when she laughs, another symptom of narcolepsy.

After speaking with her and directing her to several sites on the web, she feels a lot better. I think she may even try to follow one of these events into a lucid dream, if she can control her anxiety.

Paul

Alan,

I've had hypnogogic pets, usually cats or dogs come and visit usually before waking up from a daytime dream nap. Twice now a white and grey spotted cat has visited me, and tends to come when its time to wake up and not sleep too long.

It would be interesting though to check the former neighbors or owners of your house if they had such a cat that you saw in the pre LD experience!

Eve

My friend's daughter, who was terrified by HHs, was prescribed narcolepsy drugs, Paul. But as she did not suffer from any daytime symptoms, I feel the diagnosis is suspect. She, too, was relieved by introduction to these threads - which gave her another perspective on the phenomena. I told her that there were many people here who were actively seeking the 'terrifying' visions which so troubled her, and that I myself feel a semi-joyous sense of hopeful anticipation whenever I get paralyzed, or hear intruders banging about in the next room (!). We're a weird lot, aren't we?

I've never actually seen my cat, Eve. On both occasions he has visited I have kept my eyes closed as part of my effort not to 'break the spell', thereby sabotaging a possible LD.

Alan, I told my ex the same thing, that I envied her experience, but I don't think that itself gave her much relief. She knows how weird I am.

Without the daytime symptoms, it falls under the category of "REM disorder", I think, not narcolepsy. You're right about that.

Paul

Alan, I was wrong about REM disorder, which is basically the opposite of sleep paralysis, more like violent REM movement. Hypnogogic hallucinations, I guess, sums it up. Sorry.

Paul