Wow. Stephen, your experience is...memorable...

...electrical shock sensations - often prolonged like a current passing through your body, a heavy and/or suffocating weight pressing upon you, an unwelcome hand exploring your body, cold shivers and tremors, an overwhelming sense of the presence of evil, a foul breath. Beats the hell out of Halloween.

Something right out of the Exorcist...

I've had a similar experience, and never given it much thought until now, with the discussion of hypnogogia. During meditation, every now and then, I get this "heavy" and almost numb feeling in my body. It feels extremely familiar, yet I cannot place it--like deja vu, where it seems familiar but you cannot say why or how. I figured this was my body falling asleep, while my mind stayed awake. The reason it was familiar was because it happens every night, but I don't remember it in the morning.

However, there's no psychological component at all. And, a marked lack of foul breath or presence of evil. J

Stephen: I'd hate to be around in one of your bad dreams...

Stephen LaB: does this sound like a body falling asleep experience? Is this associated with a particular EEG rhythm? Or is this a sure sign of mental imbalance? J

Looks to me, Jason, like SB's account describes an entry into REM sleep, and yours an entry into NREM sleep.

SB's account is pretty typical of sleep paralysis. As for "presence of evil", it is indeed typical of sleep paralysis, the Old Hag, Incubus/Succubus attacks, alien abduction, or what ever you want to call it. Of course, evil doesn't seem evil to itself...

As for "mental imbalance", it's all relative, isn't it? Or is it?

Stephen LaBerge wrote:

SB's account is pretty typical of sleep paralysis. As for "presence of evil", it is indeed typical of sleep paralysis, the Old Hag, Incubus/Succubus attacks, alien abduction, or what ever you want to call it...

Someone, somewhere will quote that in some scientific journal one day. You'll be getting mail from researchers all over the word saying things like "could you elaborate on the Old Hag Component of hypnogogic sleep, please...?"

Jason

As for "Evil doesn't seem evil to itself", there are at least two ways to interpret the phrase. One is, I suppose, obvious. The other sense can be seen from the following example: I was once lying in bed on a late winter afternoon enjoying a cosy nap when suddenly I felt strange vibrations, paralysis, and the chilling conviction that there was AN EVIL PRESENCE in the room! But then I realized that the "evil presence" could only be -- me! At which realization the evil feeling vanished and I flew off into a lucid dream. Maybe because... "evil doesn't seem evil to itself"? Or because I accepted my fear?

Real Frogs Wear Green Everyday.

Stephen, This reminds me of the most memorable (and most creepy) lucid dream experience I've ever had. (This was about two years ago.) In fact, although I'm a pretty skeptical and scientifically-minded person, to this day I wonder if it was really a lucid dream or something more "shamanistic." Here's what happened: Before the experience, I was awake in my bedroom, experimenting with meditation. Although I'd read warnings not to "strain" too much with concentration, I decided for kicks to see what would happen if I did just the opposite. (Kids, don't try this at home!) So, sitting on my bed, I directed my gaze toward the tip of my nose and strained my butt off to keep this gaze totally fixed (blinking only when absolutely necessary) and my brain totally empty of anything except the tip of my nose. I consciously exerted strain in order to do this, to the point where my head quivered with tension. Stupidly, I did this for about ten or fifteen minutes and felt very strange afterwards. Immediately after completing this idiotic exercise, I leaned back and lied down in bed and closed my eyes. I heard a bassy mechanical "zzhh" sound similar to what you hear when the compactor on the back of a garbage truck is in action. I knew I could have snapped out of it just then, but I decided to go with it. Over the course of the next four seconds or so, the sound got louder and LOuder and LOUDER. It got SO loud I had the fleeting thought that I must be dragging my attention through a doorway that was too small for it to fit through (was I scraping against the sides??) Finally the sound stopped, and I knew I was "through." I had had lucid dreams before, but I knew right away that I wasn't in Kansas anymore. This was no ordinary lucid dream. This was a loud, obnoxious place. In a normal lucid dream of mine, sounds from the sides and behind me tend to sound sort-of "muffled." A sound in a normal lucid dream tends only to sound "loud and clear" when I'm specifically listening to it. That was NOT the case in this "place." How else do I describe it -- it was a LOUD place with no fixed visual qualities at all. Louder, even, than real life. There were loud voices everywhere. There were ghastly-sounding bassy voices that sounded as though they'd been slowed down by a battery-deficient tape player. Most of it was babbled nonsense, but I did hear one of them bellow, "Kiss my ass!" These voices were scary as hell. But I just told myself, "It's all part of YOU. These things have no reality outside yourself." As soon as I thought these words, the creepy voices faded away. Then I noticed something else. I noticed, in a way I can't really describe, that I had more control over my physical (real) body than I would have had in a normal lucid dream. I opened my real eyes. (As you'll see at the end of this description, yes, these were my real physical eyes.) I could see my hand against the bed. Then I closed my eyes. I could STILL see my hand against the bed. I moved my hand and watched myself moving it. I opened my eyes while doing this, then closed them, then opened them again. It all looked the same, and all of it was a perfectly stable and continous image. It was as though I could right through my eyelids. I thought to myself, "Ha -- I've had lucid dreams before where I thought I knew the physical position of my body only to find out upon waking that I was completely wrong! We'll see about this..." So, eyes open, I forced myself awake and out of the altered state. Nothing whatsoever changed visually in the transition to toal wakefulness. I could tell I was completely awake now, but there my hand was, looking just the same as it had when I was in the altered state. I got up, did a reality check to make sure I was really awake, and sure enough, I was. I've probably had hundreds of lucid dreams before and since then, but none have been remotely similar to this. -Steve

I have a reallllly quick question. Does anyone experience their body just becoming like semi-numb when going to sleep and feeling sinking in? Explain this feeling please.

John

I had my first "lucid" dream (hypnagogic/SB) about 14 years ago. Although I only found out what lucid dreaming was a year ago.

The first time it happened I was asleep on the couch, suddenly I was aware I was on the couch, I thought I was just waking up or something, I could see but not clearly. Some of the things in the room were normal and in the right place, some weren't there in reality. I heard people talking (that werent really talking) I realized I couldn't move, had a hard time breathing and started to feel a little fear. I really didn't know at this point that I was dreaming, I dont think I knew what was happening, all I knew was I was AWARE.

I finally woke up and was very curious as to what happened to me.

I continued to have them and I think by the 2nd or 3rd time I was fully aware I was dreaming. I would have them if I took a nap or was REALLY tired. When I fell into one, as I describe it, I would feel a tingling all over when it began I literally knew what was about to happen.

Everytime I have one its pretty much the same where I am completely paralyzed, can't speak, can hardly breath, think I hear and see things that aren't actually there, I TRY TRY TRY to wake up and actually can't, that's when it gets really scary. Imagine being stuck in a state you want to remove yourself from and you can't. Most people are always worried about waking up I was worried about NOT. Once I would wake up I literally wouldn't want to go back to sleep.

I have read about this type of lucid dreaming and its almost explained as being caught between conciousness and the dream state. Because its never actually a dream like you normally have, like a scene or a movie, its always me laying right where I am and physically feeling what's happening, it makes it so much more real. Especially when you don't feel as if you can breathe, it's like a struggle for each breathe at times.

There were a few occasions where the feeling was every dark and very evil. Most of the times it felt dark, however the few times I couldn't wake up it felt as if the presence of evil was right there. All I know is its great to at least KNOW what it is and why it occurs. I hope this is not the only kind of lucid dreams I will ever have though grin Of course since I didn't know what lucid dreaming was before now maybe I can change the outcome next time it happens.

I would like to ask if there has been any research into lucid dreaming and sleep paralysis. I haven't really developed my lucid dreaming talents at all and usually as soon as I realize i'm dreaming i "forget" and start to dream normally again. However, it is often the case that, as soon as I realize I'm dreaming I try to wake myself up but I find that I cannot open my eyes or move. I panic a little at first and then I go back to sleep. I never encounter this except when I try to wake myself up and I'm wondering if there's a reason for this, perhaps because i'm going directly from dream sleep to trying to wake. If i develop my lucid dreaming abilities could this go away? It's rather disturbing to me. The second thing I'd like to ask about is if anybody can provide me with information about hypnogogic hallucinations in relation to genetics and other sleep disorders. I recently found out, to my relief, that these things that I've been seeing at night not only have a name but are somewhat common. I was very surprised however, to find that my sister and my mother also had these exact same hallucinations. I would have thought maybe they also had them but not in the same exact way but surprisingly they both had the crumpled paper/Mountainous terrain and the turning bed/hanging upside down sensation. I would like to know if anybody else has these sensations and if they've found it to be hereditary. I should also point out that my maternal grandfather was narcoleptic and I wonder if that has something to do with it. I've heard that some people see geometric shapes and faces that don't look like people they know. I'd like to mention something else I find interesting. I had a time of a few months that I was obsessed with the game Tetris and played it for hours a day. I began to see those falling blocks as I was drifting off to sleep. I stopped playing because it freaked me out. Years later I began to play 2-3 games of chess daily with a friend of mine for several months and I began to see chess pieces moving around the board randomly as I was drifting off to sleep. They weren't taking turns or making moves that made sense but all the moves were legal moves. The point of this is, is it possible that these visions have purposes? Maybe they help me understand things or something. If anybody else has had any experience with auditory or visual hypnogogic or hypnopompic hallucinations e-mail me and tell me what they see/hear.

Ah, the hypnogogic state. Some pronounce it hypno-gog-ic (as in "all agog"), and others pronounce it hypno-go-jic (as in 1-800-GO-LUCID).

For my money, the hypnogogic state delivers. Many very intense and truly unusual dreamlike phenomena emerge here. Night terrors, paralysis by fright, electrical or mechanical sounds (humming, buzzing, droning, clanking), electrical shock sensations - often prolonged like a current passing through your body, a heavy and/or suffocating weight pressing upon you, an unwelcome hand exploring your body, cold shivers and tremors, an overwhelming sense of the presence of evil, a foul breath. Beats the hell out of Halloween. /Stephen Berlin

My hypnagogic imagery is usually eerie. As I float off to sleep at night I catch brief glimpses of pictures and sometimes sounds. These pictures are usually horribly grotesque, like something out of a horror film. The images do not scare me as I am fully aware of what is going on. I am curious to know why my hypnagogic experiences usually tend to follow this pattern.

Chad

This weekend I experienced another hypnagogic hallucination. Saturday morning around 8 or 9 am (I'm a late sleeper) I suddenly heard someone fiddling with the front door (technically impossible: closed bedroom door plus A/C running) and could hear someone stealthily moving down the hallway. I knew if they found me they'd kill me, but I couldn't move.

Then I thought, "Waitaminnit, there's something awful familiar about this....OH! I'm having a hypnagogic hallucination! I don't have to worry about anything, none of it is real!" Poof. The fear factor vanished, and within moments the dream had turned into a 'normal' dream.

Dear Onerionauts,

A question about sleep paralysis came to me recently via email. The subject comes up so often, I thought the response below might be worth sharing here on the Forum...

Sleep paralysis is perfectly normal (and necessary so that we don't act out our dreams!). But the awareness of it, if misunderstood, can be truly terrifying. So to restate some basic (and hopefully comforting) facts:

The purpose of the brain is to create a mental model of the world in which we navigate. When we dream, the brain continues to do exactly what it is designed to do in the waking state -- but without the usual constraints of sensory input (due to the fact that, in general, our muscles are temporarily attenuated). If consciousness is maintained during the transition from waking to dreaming, our perception of what is going on can be distorted because there is no external sensory feedback to correct it. When this happens, it's not uncommon to experience the bizarre sensations often associated WILD (Wake Initiated Lucid Dreams) and with so-called out of body experiences.

If awareness of sleep paralysis is a frequent experience, this may in fact be of benefit, because once it is understand that this is simply a natural phase and no bodily harm can come from it, the sensations can then become recognizable as a welcomed doorway directly into lucid dreaming. If, however, episodes of sleep paralysis continue to be unnerving, it may help to practice (while in the waking state) a shift from fear and anxiety to curiosity, and to visualize the attainment of a pre-planned lucid dream goal. This can be done in two steps:

1. While awake, imagine as vividly as possible, the sensations you've felt during episodes of sleep paralysis. Then re-program your response through sincere intention. Tell yourself that the next time you feel these sensations, you will recognize them for what they truly are -- the gateway to lucid dreaming!

2. Have in mind a specific goal (an activity you want to pursue in your next lucid dream) and imagine fulfilling it. The goal will provide further incentive to move beyond the initial and habitual reaction of fear.

Now the next time sleep paralysis sneaks up on you, you will be prepared to realize that your physical body is perfectly safe, and that your dream body perfectly free to go exploring, to your heart's content, in the wonder-filled Land of Odd...

Wishing you great dreaming adventures, Keelin

Hi All :) I was luckey to experience awakness during REM sleep as well as during Hypnagogic state. Few times I experienced both "lucid hypnagogic" (usually called Out-of-the-Body Experience) and "lucid REM" (LD) in the same night. I'd like to share my thoughts about the differences between the two adventures.

1. It is easier to experience OBE than LD. I say that it even though my first adventure was LD. In order to experience OBE one doesn't have to fall asleep (and by that break the line of conscioussness), rather to saty awake, but relax. The trick is to be aware of the hypnagogic state, try to locate an hypnagogic figure and try to see the "world" through it's eyes. also, DO NOT THINK OF YOUR BODY. the minute you fell your body, the hypnagogic state ends.
2. Reality: the hypnagogic experience (OBE) looks much more real than LD. The colors are bright, the details are very specific. (trying a reality test in Hypnagogia will have the same results as in REM dream). I Think that the reality appearance of OBE makes people belive that it is "more real than real life" and thus, believing they visited the "real" world, or spiritual world.
3. Controlling the experience: It is easier to control LD than OBE. I think that is because of the "wake/sleep balance". This balance is closer to "wake" in OBE, but in LD it is closer to "sleep". Trying to control OBE will shift the balance too much towards "wake", so the experience is ended.

Sweet Dreams of Wisdom Yossi

Hello All...

Regarding sleep paralysis:

I have in the past had many experiences with sleep paralysis. I describe it as a numbing, "electrifying" feeling through the body. At times, I've had auditory hallucinations. Most of these "symptoms" are well-known. However, I seem to have one that nobody has mentioned. I am unable to breathe for the 5-15 seconds while I'm immobile. Through the years, I have become accustomed to the "feel" of sleep paralysis, and therefore, I know not to panic when it occurs. To my knowledge, I do not have sleep apnea. Any suggestions to prevent this? Has anyone heard of this?

Thanks

Dear Jesus,

When this happens, are you specifically focused on the fact that you are not breathing? If so, have you tried shifting your focus to something else (for example: a different body part or, even better, the goal you have in mind for your lucid dream activity)?

Keelin

Dear Lucid Dreamers,

Sleep paralysis is quite common to me, usually I'm experiencing it at least one time a week. My own research shows that it only occurs if i'm awake from the middle of the REM phase. If I wake up at the end of the REM phase, I usually fall asleep "naturally". For instance, I was never able to have the sleep paralysis when just falling asleep at the bedtime.

It always comes as the loud ringing in the ears, usually in increasing intensity. My guess is that the inner noise (which we all can hear if we try to concentrate on silence) is getting more and more amplified. I recall reading smth similiar about dissociative experiences also starting in this way. I always feel the body paralysis, sometimes some body numbing. Sometimes I feel the eyes moving (as they should in the REM phase).

My 1st experiences were prior to successful LDs, so they were quite scary. I remember I was frightened to death when I had it for the 1st time in my life (it was in mid-July). In mid-August, I had quite an interesting experience. I was trying to move, found it very difficult but was able to spin (it didn't give me the idea it was my dream body, not the physical one). I remember opening my eyes (probably the dream eyes), and seeing my arm really weird. Then I drifted to the non-lucid dream which was about me lying in my bed semi-paralysed. I was able only to move my hands. I saw my mother coming, so I started to hit the bed by arms intensively in hope she'd wake me up. Then I woke up actually.

My 1st successful WILD, also starting with sleep paralysis was at August 25. At that time I was able to "leave" my physical body, or, better say, to move my dream body, though I still wasn't sure I'm moving the dream body until I made the reality test. I had the wonderful LD for the 1st time.

Severay days (nights) ago I also had the bizzare sleep paralysis experience. At this time, for the 1st time I was able to hear non-existent voices (hallucinations). I wasn't afraid, but it was rather unpleasant to hear strange voices. Then I had the strong sensation of a cat jumping to my bed (I have no cat at the moment). I woke up, and was still able to experience minor closed eyes visuals (mostly dark pixels or lines, but nothing more complex), which vanished in several minutes.

Lucid Dreams, Nicholas

Hi Nicholas,

The experiences you have had with sleep paralysis mirror very closely my own experiences. I also had these for the first time just after I had started to have my first lucid dreams using the NovaDreamer, although ironically, the sleep paralysis/OBEs occured when I had not worn the mask for several days. They also all occured at weekends, late in the morning after I had woken from my main sleep of the night, and maybe had had a light breakfast and then drifted off to sleep again (often with the radio on which I could hear quite clearly throughout my paralysis). On occasions when there were no 'real' external sounds I also heared buzzing noises, and could convince my dream body to float up above the bed.

When I did this, the feeling was absolutely incredible, I could almost feel my arms falling behind me as if someone was lifting me out of bed with their arms. Also, I was convinced that my mouth was open and I was breathing in a hyperventilating 'panicky' sense yet when I came round seconds later (as it was always so exciting) I was actually calmly breathing and my mouth was closed.

I have also had the 'cat jumping on the bed' experience, and I do have a cat, but it was never actually in the room at the time! I've also experienced what feels like a person jumping on top of me on the bed as if they were about to wrestle me, but remarkably, this never woke me.

Also, when I did manage to float, I often had the impression that someone/some-force was watching me nearby and this was mildy disturbing although never of nightmare proportions.

I look forward to hearing more of your experiences, and I'll be sure to let you all know if I have any more!

All the very best,

Nick

Hi Nick,

My Sleep paralysis/OBEs occur most frequently between 4 and 6 AM. I also have them at 8 AM, my usual wake up time, but less frequently. Moreover, my most vivid dreams also occur at the same time interval - between 4 and 6 AM. This is a little strange, as Stephen LaBerge writes that the REM phase is getting longer and longer as the sleep progresses. Although I doubt anyone will have the long REM phase after 12 hours of sleep, as it just won't be needed (I can't sleep so much, so I never tried it). My idea is that the REM phase is the only phase when the active synthesis of neurotransmitters like serotonin and norepinephrine takes place, other stages are more for the "passive rest".

As I already said, my 1st sleep paralysis experiences were very scary. Moreover, they started while awakening from the REM phase, not on its onset (as it happens to me now). At that night, I had 2 sleep paralysis separated by 40 minutes time interval. When I heard this ringing noise, in increasing intensity, I thought I was dying. I was feeling my intensive breath and rapid heartbeat - of course it was illusory. At the 2nd time I realized I couldn't move even a finger. I found a way to breath very intensively to wake myself up from that state.

It's rather common to hear that many people experince some "presence" near them during sleep paralysis, usually alien or smth like that. And it's interesting to say I've never experienced it. BTW, did you just feel someone's presence, or did you actually see someone jumping on your bed?

Lucid Dreams, Nicholas

Very interesting to hear your experiences, Nicholas.

To answer your question, I never actually "see" anyone or anything jumping on to me when in sleep paralysis as I have never been able to open my dream eyes at this stage (nor indeed, during my OBEs) - it's just as if I am lying/floating there in my bedroom and I must think that if I try to open my eyes, the illusion will be ruined. However, I doubt very much that it would, and next time this happens, I will resolve to use my dreaming optic senses. A report to follow soon on this I hope - as I'm hoping to bring this on over the next few weeks.

BTW, I had a short lucid dream last night of the WILD variety - I awoke at about 4am and was restless for over an hour and then calmed myself by thinking about the fact that this would be an ideal time to have a lucid dream, so I quickly went to sleep with this thought in mind. Very shortly, I found myself in an office with two of my work colleagues and instantly recognised that it was a dream, not through noticing anything 'strange' about the surroundings, but simply by the fact that I had gone straight into it from the waking state. I briefly glided over a desk that I was standing besides an announced to their startled faces that they didn't really exist here and this was in fact my dream! I wanted to know what 'they' thought of this but before they could answer, I awoke briefly again with excitement. It's been a few weeks since my last lucid experience, and I guess that it has helped that I've been thinking about it alot more recently, largely due to getting involved with this Forum over the last few weeks!

It just goes to show that the best way to have more lucid dreams is to think about them, discuss them, and examine reality in waking life as much as possible.

All the best for now,

Nick

I took a nap this afternoon in an attempt to lucid dream for the first time. I removed myself from all distractions and relaxed fully. I didn't lucid dream, but I did have the most intense sleep paralysis and hypnogogic hallucination episode I've ever had. I had constant pulses of electrifying numbness accompanied by vivid strobe-like appearances of colorful faces and passing motorcycles going about 150 miles an hour. I felt spinning motions, though I was motionless, and sped across the darkness just as fast as the passing motorcycles. The humming and buzzing sound was loud, but not loud enough to mask the sound of a familiar song in my head that played as perfect as if it were playing on my stereo. My breath seemed slow, deep, and suffocating, although I managed to keep my cool and prolong the episode for what seemed like four or five minutes. (Previously, episodes have lasted for less than a minute.) I find the sensation of sleep paralysis mysteriously pleasant... I can only relate it to the feeling I used to have when I inhaled nitrous oxide recreationally four or five years ago. (Sleeping is SO much safer, of course) About the only thing I found disturbing was the intense paranoia as though someone creepy were standing over the bed and peering at my sleeping body, ready to kill me in nightmarish fashion. While the sensations were occuring, I was fully aware of what was ocurring. I made the decision to jerk my body out of paralysis when I heard multiple laughs, some from deep sounding males, others from high-pitched females. I tried to go back to sleep, but I awoke too excited to do so.

It was great hearing of your first attempt of lucid projection! I must let you know that the description that you gave in some ways was almost identical to my own very first attempt.

There was a period of my life where I was seeking answers to life's mysteries with an "at all costs" type of attitude. I was about 20 years old, began studying the bible curiously and seriously (or at least attempting to) but found that most of all, I wanted direct experience with something bigger than life. I had heard of this phenomena of leaving ones body at will called astral projection. I felt if I were to have any success at it, it would be a good road to prove to myself, once and for all, if this idea of spiritual exploration had any real experiential validity to it . In other words, as human beings, are we truly more than we realize...

Well the almost immediate success was like a kick in the head awakening. I found myself hovering above my body and looking around my darkened room. I saw a light shining out in my hallway and floated out towards it ready for adventure in this extremely exciting new dimension that was now itching to be explored! When I reached the hallway I noticed that the light was pouring out of the cracks around and beneath a closed door of an adjoining bedroom. This was all so incredibly new to me the idea of floating instead of walking around my house, and the possibility that what was behind the door may be an answer to all of what I was seeking.

From where I was psychologically at the time, I was extremely excited about the possibility that I had stumbled upon a realm "where angels and saints dwell". : ) So I curiously peeked inside the door. The room was filled with blinding light ...and an expectant deep and powerful voice rumbled with amusement "Soooo...you wish to meet Jeshuah"...and was immediately followed by great evil laughing. I tensed up with fear as it felt as if I were in the presence of something very mean and deceiving...it scared the living H out of me and I instantly jolted back into my body on my bed through what seemed literally electric shocks... strobing blasts of white light coursing through my body. There was a brief second when it seemed my consciousness lapsed and I was surprised to discovered upon returning to physical consciousness that I was mumbling the name Christ over and over. I sat up in my bed freaked out.

That first experience was a shocker to me. I realized that I had actually experienced the phenomena that I was told about, yet I was wondering if the terror of it would be worth more attempts. Being the seeker of truth that I am, that thought lasted about 10 seconds and was soon having full blown out of body experiences and vertical travels that I will cherish for the rest of my life.

A few things that I assimilated through this experience and others, was that in my first experience I had entered a dimension incredibly close to this physical one. Like just piercing the veil of a dimension that is attached right next the physical dimension. In following similar experiences when I have actually visually witnessed myself pulling out of my body into my darkened room, I find it is usually those instances that I have the "demonic" "entity" or fear involved experiences.

It is as if we have a physical body which is of course located on the physical world, and a dream body that is more of a "light body" which functions farther away in what you might call a distant "light world" or dream dimension. I have noticed that the floating is easy in the "closer" more "solid" dimensions and that I am usually "walking" or grounded in the farther less solid world of dreams.

So maybe the dream body is sort of like like a bubble at the bottom of a lake, the lake being the physical waking state. When we sleep the bubble begins to float to the surface and finds its place in the air above the water that it co-vibrates with, without realizing how many fish it has passed on its way to the top.

I think when we are able to drag lucidity over the immediate line from the physical waking state over into the first "astral" or dream layer, we find that we are open to coarser levels that lie somewhere in between. Layers that don't quite resemble our "pleasant" surroundings found in our natural dreamstate.

One last interesting note about my first experience, For many years I have wondered if there was any significance to the name that I was taunted with in that first experience. It sounded like ...eshuah or something close. I have thought that maybe I heard it wrong and he was saying Joshua, but have never found any profound significance in the name in my own personal experience.

Last year I discovered through the net that the name Jesus is not at all the way it was pronounced in Jesus Christ's day, but in fact his name was pronounced Yeshua! It finally made sense. What a surprise!

The intense electric shocks and white strobeing effects, that I experienced upon reentering the physical consciousness, were all phenomena that I have only experienced once, like yourself, on my very first attempt.

Thanks for your post, and by the way, I feel the song by Queensryche Silent Lucidity is one of the most awesome songs ever created about lucid travel. It has given me tears of awe and goose bumps after many many plays and replays. I hope it has made others curious about the worlds we are pioneering together. By the way, old YES music, such as "going for the one","close to the edge", "Tales from topographical oceans", and "relayer", are also very "lucid albums".

Take care and keep dreaming consciously!

Jeff Timpe Angstrom Productions

I've adopted my first cat recently, and was struck by an interesting observation the other morning.

A 7 month old kitten head shoved right up against your face at 5 am looks EXACTLY like the classic 'grey alien' head, clear down to the slanty dark eyes.

Hmmmm. I wonder how many of the folks that came up with this original design own(ed) cats? If you're in a hypnogogic state, this would DEFINITELY give you some really weird dreams.

Dear Friends,

While reviewing last year's journal, I came across this brief dream account -- a reminder of how even a few moments of lucid dreaming can fall into the category of extraordinary moments in a lifetime...

While quietly awaiting the onset of dreaming, the expanse is suddenly filled with the seductive, rhythmic motion of foam-capped peaks atop endless mountains of clear, liquid turquoise.

This hypnagogic episode brought a most exquisite feeling of being "one with the Sea", with no distinct or separate physical body, only a sense of endless, easy rhythm beyond time, of purpose with no agenda, of natural serenity. Now, when I visit the Sea in waking life, the memory of this feeling returns. Gazing past the crashing waves, I lose myself again in the undulating beauty beyond and know that because of those few moments of lucidity on the shores of Dreamland, I am forever changed.

Wishing you all countless lucid moments in the New Year, Keelin

Hi,

Long time I hav't been in the forum. I was deep in homework.

I was trying the 61 point technique again with "no success". Maybe someone can help me with this:

I relax, and start going in each point, when I get to point 31 or even less I feel very light, and my body is vibrating (like electricity is passing through it), then I start feeling as if I was spinning, if I tight my muscles in my legs, I spin faster. My surrounding is a black (or white) 3D space. I just spin and spin, I don't get pictures in my mind, only a purple whirlpool, that I can hardly controll.

How do I make the dream start? I've been told to think about a picture and to focuson it but I can't creat that picture.

If I drift with my thoughts I can drift to a dream but I lose my lucidity slowly and when I enahbce the lucidity, the dream ends and I am back spinning again.

What should I do?

Thank you.

Hi, Guy

Seems, it would be easier to start an OOBE from that point. I've learnt to neglect such sensations and to wait for hypnagogic pictures. I've rarely experienced OOBE - like stages to say something about it. I remember having read somewhere, that a yogi started doing physical exercises (long distance running) to prevent his etheric double to dissolve from physical body. In general it seems, that you should better start out of your dream - like experience and prolong lucidity, if you intend a fully lucid dream. I think, that you have taken a big step to find yourself lucid in a dream.

Ralf

Ralf, Thanks for responding.

I didn't really understand, So I should try to get in a lucid dream or to have an OOBE?

Thanks, Guy.

Hello, Guy

My suggestion is, that you try both. There are many ways into lucid dreaming and you may see OOB - like experiences as a lucid dream. So, if you feel, that your etheric body seperates, try this way. If you don't succeed, calm down, relax and focus on imaginary.

Good luck

Yours Ralf

Thank you Ralf, I will try this tonight.

Guy.

Sleep Paralysis ! Arrrrrggggghhhh !!!!!

Hi everyone !

Does anyone here suffer from Sleep Paralysis ? I get it quite a bit. It scares me sometimes because the feeling is VERY odd. Does it have anything to do with Lucid Dreaming ? My body freezes, I can hear everything but cannot feel a thing. It feels like my brain is being tickled (sounds funny I know) It's almost like a falling feeling - but more of a head case job.

The only way I get out of it is I concentrate really hard on moving a toe or finger. This always works.

Any help or information on why this happens ?

Thanks,

Daniel

Daniel,

As I understand it, everyone is paralysed when they dream - lucidly or non-lucidly. This seems to be an automatic condition imposed to prevent the sleeping body imitating the movements in the dream - thereby doing itself or someone else a damage. 'Sleep walking' might be a symptom of malfunction of this mechanism.

I fairly often wake up in my mind, but have to wait for my body to follow suit. You're right about concentrating on a small movement like wiggling a finger, and the paralysis doesn't last long anyway

I also get auditory hallucinations while entering a sleep state. Last night, for example, I clearly heard a terrific thumping, as if people were running around in the apartment above mine. But it was so exaggerated that I knew it was just a hypnogogic symptom, and didn't bother to 'come back' from sleep to check.

The weirdest hallucination I've had in this hypnogogic state was when I divided into two of me, and had a brisk, businesslike conversation. Then the 'other one' hurried out of the bedroom on some urgent appointment, leaving me laying there wondering what the hell was happening. I was quite awake, and reckoned I might be having a psychotic episode or something. Then 'he' came back, and 'we' joined up again - with apparantly no ill effects. In fact I felt better afterwards. You never know what's going to happen next with this stuff :-)

Oh my God ...... I would have freeked out and moved apartments due the fact that my fragile little mind would not have handled it.

That is certainly VERY strange indeed. That's almost like a dream in itself. I must say that I have never heard noises before or seen things, except when I'm in deep sleep.

You're right, perhaps you could pull out the Cindy Crawford in you ? laffin That would be fun...... mind you, if I found out I had a Cindy Crawford in me, I'd get worried. lol.

Thanks for the help. I remember when it started happening I told my Mum that I may have Epilepsy or something ...... that was only because I could not understand it.

Meez outta here. Look after yourselves everyone !

Great scott!, Daniel

Dear Alan, et al,

How convenient (and clever of you) to send off the one character to take care of urgent business while the other character sleeps in, so to speak ;->

And how right you are about sleep paralysis being a natural (and fortunate) state during sleep. It often happens that people become more aware of the stages and attributes of sleep paralysis (like the sense of falling or separating, noises, vibrations, etc.) when they begin to explore lucid dreaming. Once the symptoms become familiar, fear is often replaced by the joy of seeing those bizarre sensations as a prelude to dreaming. With WILDs especially, it's easy to follow the progression of the body into sleep because consciousness remains uninterrupted during the passage. Most fascinating!

And isn't it sweet when things go bump in the night to be able to discern whether or not it's all happening in the upstairs apartment of one's own mind? This reminds me of a dream, from which the fragment below is taken:

... After awhile, I seem to rise and fall in and out of dreaming, with varying levels of lucidity. At one point, I have the sense of clearly hearing R's breathing beside me -- and also someone in the kitchen! The possibility of a stranger in the house alarms me. I touch R's arm to nudge him awake, and when he doesn't respond, give it a slight tug. His breathing remains undisturbed and still there is the sound of someone else in the house. Another tug on his arm and it stretches like warm taffy. Okay, I'm dreaming! Relief sweeps over me even as I sense the character from the kitchen entering the bedroom. He takes my dream journal and says something about writing poetry. I wonder what I would do if this weren't a dream. Eventually, the character fades and I slip into a new scene of skating.

Sweet lucidity to all, Keelin

Daniel and Keelin,

Well, whatever this stuff is, it sure beats television :-)

Seriously, though, getting used to the caprices of the mind in this way can only be a good thing. Even if we don't yet know the mechanisms at work, it's of real value to be able to categorise the phenomena and thereby not be subject to them in any negative way. The popular expression 'empowering' comes to mind, but I think it's a bit overused these days. :-)

Alan T

OK lucid dreamers, I know I'm going to seem completely off when I start talking about this but bear with me, because I think it has alot to do with my lucid dreaming: I've been lucid dreaming for about 4 or 5 years now and over the past couple of years they've become extremely intense. I've heard around this room and it sounds common for there to be that intensity and pressure coming to the brain while returning back to sleep, but this might be going overboard. Here we go, over the past year I've been getting this electrical razor feeling ball physically rolling around in my head (I am fully lucid while this happens), also this sensation rapidly moves down my spine. This is freaky stuff here! It last for avg. 30 seconds and happens about every week. I can say things while this is happening and hear it really good and sometimes voices will yell back at me and totally raise the pressure and anxiety level. What do you guys think this is? Part of the problem that I'm going to try and work with is that my diet has been extremely poor, along with consuming large amounts of alcohol on top of that. But on the flip side I'm attracted to this experience and want to keep on experiencing it. I think I'll see if changing my habits will change this experience, but not change my mind to what I'd experience. I know it sounds complicated but maybe some of you can relate to what I'm experiencing. Take care dreamers, Bye-Justin

Dear Justin

Your post might be overboard. I hope you succeed in changing your habits. I?ve done / learned psychical healing, aura - work and Reiki for some time. My impression was, whenever I had smoked to much cigarettes or when I ate too much before healing sessions, it has been myself, who has been healed at first. It wasn?t always a good feeling. With alcohol, it might be even worse. Your experience sounds somewhat like a healing - session. I am astonished, that you succeed in LD, while drinking a lot. If I drink only one glass of wine in the evening, I can?t concentrate on the subtle levels of awareness needed to have a WILD or even a clear intention for the nights dreams. For me, it sounds contradictory to open up for your inner world on one hand and pollute it with alcohol on the other hand. Maybe that is the source of your healing reaction, pain, and anxiety. I hope, it gets better for you, if you change your habits. Lucid dreaming is a good reason for me, to change my hindering habits. Feel free, to post your LD on this Forum. And feel free to keep us or me updated about your progress.

Best wishes

Yours Ralf

Thanks Ralph for the reply, I've been feeling alot healthier over the past week or so and I haven't had that sensation in my head since I changed over. I've still been having lucid dreams, just recently, about two days ago I had a brief awareness where I was looking right at my dad and I tried to tell him that I was dreaming, and I found that speaking "I'm dreaming" was very hard, it took me about three times to succeed. Has anyone ever found the difficulty in speaking- like sometimes trying physically to move the mouth doesn't always work to speak in the lucid dream? Bye, Justin

For me it is difficult, to think of the right phrase in a lucid dream. I have rarely spoken in my LD.

Hey Guys (and gals):

I love to converse with my dream peebles (es strange). I recall a neat LD a few years back when

I was walking up a hilly road twards my old college. I had always been interested in the "Older" folks living in the old neighborhood row houses, so here way this old timer in his small front yard, behind a short black wrought iron fence.

He wore a worn out plaid shirt and jeans. I sensed that I had traveled back in time, and I preceeded to tell this fellow all avbout nuclear science and atomic energy/power. He seemed disinterested.

One more radar lover gone....

Joe

"I been drivin all night, my hands wet on the wheel

[riff 1]

--4/6-4-2-4-4-2-- --4/6-4-2-4-4-2--

theres a voice in my head that drives my heel [riff 1]"

http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Garage/1712/tab.html

Hi, Joe

Thanx for the linx.

Loud tone/vibration while falling asleep. Anyone heard and felt a very loud thrumming noise coming from within just before dreaming starts? It scared me but I could kind of induce/tune into it. After experiencing it on two occasions I asked a friend who also frequently Lucid Dreams who knew exactly what I was referring to. He said when he merged with it his whole body shook! I don't remember seeing mention of it in Steven's book, the course or this forum.

Hey Ted, It might be what I've been experiencing for a while now. Check out what I wrote on this board, if you haven't already. I myself am trying to look into this further. I think it means a lot, and I think the key to lucidity is an understanding of this phenomena. Lately it's been hard luck for me. I'm not sure if I should get a complete neuro/medical exam? I've already been to the local mental health and this is what they advized. Medication wasn't mentioned to me. It's very discouraging.

Best of Luck with getting answers, Justin Doucette

Hi Ted, Justin,

I can also relate to the loud noise or vibration that you're talking of. Although it's sometimes very intense & can get extremely loud I can't say that really bothers me.

I guess I've had three forms of this: Firstly, while lying in bed, on the cusp of sleeping/waking I feel & hear a loud virbation in my head and body; secondly, the same experience, but while I'm dreaming (I didn't realise I was dreaming at the time and thought "Oh no, it's entering my daily life!"); and thirdly, again while on the cusp of sleeping/waking, I hear a series of VERY loud and sharp bangs, as I imagine a gun would sound if it was shot close to you.

I have no idea as to the cause of these experiences, but it seems to be quite commonly reported by people involved in LD's and OBE's, moreso in the latter I think. I've never heard of any ill effects.

Rob.

For you all who hear loud noises/tones/vibrations etc:

I like to use Tibetan bells. They change those inner sounds somehow, makes them more clear. The bells that I have are small and made of metal, tied together with a piece of leather. I hit them together and listen to the sound. Somewhat like a tuning fork. I sometimes listen to them coming home from work in my car. Doing that affects how I hear inner noises at other times (when I am not ringing the bells.)

I associate unusual or alarming noises and vibrations with WILDs. Sometimes, after going to bed and while hovering on the border of sleep, I hear noises - accompanied by insecure thoughts about intruders in my apartment. Sometimes also I hear voices speaking quite distinctly in my ear. Through experience I have learned to identify these as symptoms of, or the prelude to a possible WILD - which gives me the will to overide them and concentrate on getting through to an LD.

Alan T.

Alan,

I'm glad you said that: About the Intruder type feelings. I get that too. It may be that I have lived in South Africa before - hehe.

When I head noised during sleep paralysis, I always get up and search the house. I really shouldn't though - I love sleep paralysis. It's the strangest inner roller coaster ride ever ...... and it always leads to Lucid Dreams for me ;-)

Licence to thrill, Daniel

Daniel,

A 'wild' surmise :-).....All the LD phenomena discussed on this forum must have a psychological function. The similarities of reported experience such as the buzzing, loud noises, peculiar sensations and feelings of alarm indicate that all may be expressions of the brain's autonomic warning systems which click on whenever unfamiliar activities occur. How many times, for example, have you felt nervous before an event such as an interview, and battled in vain to quell the useless trepidation? These reactions are all various degrees of the fight/flight instinct which all animals have as a means of survival. When, however, these instincts are triggered on the borders of sleep, the dreaming mechanisms of the mind interpret them in their own peculiar way - dramatising them into auditory and/or visual hallucinations. Anyway, I find this interpretation reassuring when they happen to me :-)

Regards

Dial Nutbanger

Sleep Paraylsis question >

Greetings all. A simple question about entering a Sleep Paralysis state. I have almost been able to bring these on now by themselves, except the last time was quite horrid physically. I wouldn't call it painful because it wasn't, but it felt as if my head was folding into itself from the inside. Very strange feeling. Almost as if my mind was being sucked into a vacuum. I was totally paraylised for about 10 seconds (which is usually normal) but then this REALLY strong mind bending feeling explained above came on and I struggled to move my finger and wake myself up.

I don't usually have to wake up because the sleep paralysis is not normally this strong.

Any other similar experiences from anyone ?

I am a bit scared of letting this feeling take its path because of the foreigness of it all. It's a feeling that I cannot explain, but the sucking of the mind best describes it > You know how it is .. ;-)

Other than that, my exercises are going well and I am on my way to becomming a young dream master. I hope I cannot wait till I upgrade to being able to post under the "POST YOUR LUCID DREAMS" Topic. WoooHooo ! ;-)

Shaken - not stirred. Daniel

Hi Daniel

I've made similar experiences. I felt my face melted by some acid during a WILD attempt. You have to relax in the face of the transient death of Ego. That is what I think about these foreign feelings.

Keep on mastering

Ralf

Ralf - it's harder than I thought.

Today coming home from France on the Cruise Liner, I had another episode - but this time it was pleasant and not too strong. I also had an intense dream after falling asleep which was most enjoyable. I shall certainly try relax next time.

Far and beyond, Daniel

Ralf !!

Some fantastic news and progress since I last posted here. Last night I managed to concentrate for long enough (About 1 Hour 30 minutes) entirely on remembering while I fall asleep! This led to quite a few of those "JUMPS" when you feel you are falling. One of them infact led to me feeling as if I had just been rattled by an ogre ! hehe

Anyhow, the fact of the matter is, I am very excited about sleeping tonight. I feel that I have put enough effort into this now and will be able to obtain SP when I want to (or most nights).

Last night was ALMOST dream stated - but thanks to my girlfriend, who kept moving every 10 minutes, I was not able to induce it properly. At one point, I could see pictures forming and my mental images were running wild and becomming quite real. For me, I feel the WILD's will be more successful ........ but I'll keep you posted ;-)

Kindest Regards, Daniel PS - it's now 21:49 and I am counting the seconds till bedtime ...... ! WooooHoooo !!!! ;-)