Dear Adastra,

You have my most heartfelt wishes for all the comforting dreams your heart can hold. May they guide you through the delicate and difficult passage the death of a loved one surely brings.

The book I believe you're looking for is "The Dream Messenger: How Dreams of the Departed Bring Healing Gifts" by Dr. Patricia Garfield. It includes a variety of dream accounts, explanations of common symbols, and techniques for using dreams as guidance during the grieving process. It is excellent.

May our loved ones be never farther than a dream away, Keelin

Mikolas,

If you like HPL, you might like to read another opus by Dennis Wheatley - which popped my gizzard at the age of 9. 'Strange Conflict' is the title.

Adastra,

I've just seen your post of May 03, and can understand the parallell drawn between LD and Gurdjieff 'self-remembering'. But as an old self-rememberer I have to say that the experiences are entirely different. When one achieves LD it's a liberating and usually joyous experience (in mine, anyway). But self-remembering came into disrepute in the 50s because of its effects upon normal relationships. Someone once said to Mr G that there was no love in his system. Now, while that may be a little extreme, the absence referred to caused a number of followers then and since to become alienated from their families and friends through their efforts to self-remember. It's a remarkably alienating and unfriendly act to self-remember while in the company of anyone who doesn't know what you are doing - i.e. non-cult members. For this reason those who practiced it soon became known as 'work faced'.

Just something to watch out for.

Cheers

Alan T.

Keelin, thanks for your kind words and support - and especially for telling me the name of that book, which is now on it's way to me from a used bookstore (sadly, it is out of print).

Alan, I wonder if the key difference is what level of reality you're practicing the technique in? In dreams you don't have other independent people to be disturbed by self-remembering sort of practices. And if there are independent entities visiting your dreams, well they better be prepared to deal with whatever your dreaming mind comes up with! (and vice versa of course.) :p

DREAMGATES: An Explorer's Guide to the Worlds of Soul, Imagination, and Life After Death by Robert Moss

Reviewed by Arthur Gillard

Dreamgates by Robert Moss is a fascinating look at the lucid dream experience from a shamanic perspective, which in many ways goes far beyond other books on the subject that stick closely to what can currently be proven from a scientific perspective. There is a lot to be said for dealing with this endlessly fascinating subject in a scientific way, yet I found myself immensely enjoying Moss's more far-ranging, free-wheeling approach and his emphasis on the spiritual beliefs of indiginous peoples throughout the world.

For Moss, the world of dreams is every bit as real as Consensus Reality, if not more so. In fact, he considers the Dreamworld or Dreamtime to be the primary level of reality and the origen of all that we experience in the physically awake portion of our lives. When we travel into dreams or out of our bodies in astral projections we visit real places, encounter other beings - non-human, ex-physical etc. - and have genuine experiences which may enrich our lives and enlarge our souls in various ways. For example, on these "soul journeys" we may recover knowledge from before this physical incarnation. It is also possible to anticipate future events and in many cases change their outcomes.

Initially I felt a bit hesitent about this book, finding some of his terminology too glib - e.g. he refers to people who often experience conscious dreaming (his preferred term for lucid dreaming) as "frequent fliers." However, I got over that once I realized that he has a sophisticated approach to this subject and is drawing on an encyclopedic knowledge of a wide variety of different cultures and times - e.g., lucid dreams of Aristotle, the soul journeys of the 18th century Swedish scientist/mystic Swedenborg, native North American legends, Australian aboriginal myths etc. His stance on skepticism also did a lot to win me over. He stresses the importance of a skeptical attitude, but only at the proper time, i.e. after we have had an experience, not before. We should not let the skeptical side of ourselves get between us and these sorts of experiences, Moss advises, but dialog with the skeptic afterwards to determine what the real nature of the experience may have been and what significance or utility it may have in our daily lives. Moss considers that the result of an experience often counts for much more than its ontological underpinnings, which may in any case be unknowable. He cites encounters he's had with what appeared to be the soul of a departed historical figure who inspired and helped him with creative endevors such as novels he was writing; does it really matter whether the entity was actually the person he appeared to be, or a different being, or an aspect of Moss's unconscous mind? Whatever the nature of those encounters, they helped Moss bring a tangible creative product into the world.

The after-death state is a frequent topic of this book, and is among the most fascinating subjects he deals with. A shaman is defined as a person who has had a personal encounter with death but came back to share her familiarity with that realm and use her knowledge to help others; shamans are scientists of the afterlife. Moss himself describes an illness he had in early childhood during which he made a soul journey to the underworld and met a ghostly race of beings; he lived an entire lifetime with them during the course of his childhood illness in our world. Some of the more skilled explorers throughout human history have brought back maps of the hyperspace within which our more mundane reality is embedded, and these have been turned over time into myth and scripture, with inevitable distortions, simplifications and biases. What modern people need is not to take someone else's word for it, but to experiment and experience for ourselves and make up our own minds. Moss makes clear that he is only giving you techniques to use yourself, and temporary maps of hyperspace to help you initially until you can draw more accurate ones that reflect your own experience. Reality, in all its aspects, is always changing - therefore old maps have only a limited validity in the present moment.

According to Dreamgates, the after-death state is dreamlike. "The path of the soul after death is the path of the soul in dreams." Through conscious dreaming, soul journeys, shamanic techniques of dream reentry etc., we can become familiar with the after-death state while we're still physically alive, and thus avoid some of the mistakes which may befall many of the newly dead - such as not realizing that you have died, or playing out limited or redundant patterns from your life rather than taking advantage of the many opportunities for spiritual growth and adventure available to us once we've left the physical permanently. "Our feelings, experiences, and creative energies survive physical death and color a new phase of growth and experiment. All of this can be perceived by the living through dreams and inner communications and may be a vital sorce of guidance and inspiration." It is also possible for a living person to assist the dead in various ways, for example to give up old patterns or to move on to their next stage of growth. Anyone can be a "psychopomp" or guide of souls. He talks about various ways this can be done, but the most important thing is your attitude, your desire to help. "If your intentions are good, you will receive the help you need."

In any case, Moss wisely advises us to live our lives from the perspective of our eventual death. When we die, and we look back over our lives, what would we want, then, to have done now, in our current life circumstances? It would be best to live life now in a way that will not lead to many regrets at the moment of our death. Of course, this is very easy to say in theory, and very challenging to put into practice. But from the perspective presented in this book, we're here to learn and grow as evolving spiritual beings.

The last several chapters were among the most interesting. Moss describes alien abductions and points out the great similarities between such accounts and many dream encounters; he feels that many such experinences probably occur in dreams. However, in contrast with most people who hold this "alien abduction as dream" theory, he feels that people may actually be having encounters with real, independent non-physical entities, though in most cases probably in their dreambody rather than their physical bodies. He goes on to speculate that because our culture has denied the Dreamtime and taken such a narrow materialistic view of life, perhaps the Dreamtime is breaking through into the physical plane of existence, to wake us up to the spiritual dimension of reality. This could account for some reports of paranormal occurances. Perhaps the physical world is becoming more dreamlike, he suggests. Regardless, "dreaming is about living more richly and generously. As you become an active dreamer, you will learn to navigate by synchronicity. When you view dreams more literally and waking life more symbolically, you enter the flow of natural magic."

If I have one major complaint about this book, it is that he deals in fear way too much for my taste. He's always alluding to frightening or dangerous phenomena that you may encounter, and the corrosponding great need to carefully protect yourself in various ways - for example, sanctifying and shielding the place where your body is located when you go on these travels. He also talks much about secret schools on the astral plane, that may make you pass tests or do certain things before you are allowed to enter, and guardians at various thresholds and gateways. All of this, in my opinion, could lead to unnecessarily terrifying experiences on the part of people who are trying these experiments. It may be that Moss is invoking fear as a way of more fully engaging his readers in the process, making them pay a lot more attention to what they are doing and take this all more seriously; or maybe it's more of a disclaimer so he won't be sued for astral damages (these days I wouldn't be too surprised); or perhaps he really believes it - maybe it's even true! I find it hard to take seriously statements such as "If you are out for sex and thrills, you may wish you had insisted on a health inspection before getting involved with some of your partners." Astral VD? Come on! I'm willing to consider that he may be correct on some level(s), to keep an open mind about this, and to learn some techniques that might come in handy if I find myself in a bad astral neighborhood. It also occurs to me as a possibility that people who go out feeling that the multiverse is all sweetness and light, while they might have more positive experiences, may miss out on some of the really interesting and educational opportunities to be had.

Such quibbles aside, Dreamgates is a fascinating look at shamanic dreaming, is a very entertaining read, and would be a valuable addition to any oneironaut's library. I highly recommend it.

Excerpt

Suzie was a working mother, quite satisfied with her life - except that her dreams were infested with snakes. For more than ten years, she was terrified by a recurring dream of being enveloped by snakes:

I am sitting on the floor, with my back to a wall in a big room that is empty except for the snakes that are crawling all around me. Snakes are creeping up each of my legs, coiling around them like a spiral staircase. The tail of a large snake is wrapped around my midsection. The rest of his body is wrapped around my shoulders and chest, pinning down my arms. His head is right next to my face on my right side, and I am totally terrified.

At night, Suzie fled from this dream, leaving it as an unresolved nightmare. It pursued her by day when she tried to meditate or take a nap, and she would find herself shaking with fear as she shook herself out of her daydreams.

I could actually feel the snakes moving on me, hear the hissing. My skin would literally crawl with fear. I don't know what type of snakes the small ones were, but I think the big one was a cobra, because he had a hood that stood out around his head. His tongue would dart out at me as if he was getting ready to strike.

Finally, as the snake images rose again when Suzie was trying to meditate, she determined to confront her fears.

The snakes were around my legs, and the big one was around my chest and shoulders, with his head swaying from side to side on the right side of my face, coming close and then moving back. As I resolved to go with the flow, I found I wasn't scared anymore. I just followed his movements. Suddenly his head jerked forward. I expected him to bite me. Instead, he licked or kissed my cheek! At that moment I felt the most wonderful feelings of love and peace, and he held me in his embrace. I now know he is one of my guardians and he is always there to protect me and offer me courage, support and guidance. I can feel his shadow behind me (and see it occasionally) when I need his protection - or just a big hug.

The snake came to Suzie again and again, in his new role as an ally. In a conscious dream, she found him waiting for her in a tunnel between the worlds. He asked her where she wanted to go. She had been suffering heavy-duty stress, and she told the snake she would love to go somewhere she could relax. She found herself floating on a peaceful, sunny pond. She watched droplets of water making countless ripples on the surface. Her snake crawled up on her belly, coiled up, and sunned himself with her. Then he asked, "Would you like to see the water world?" When she said yes, he pulled her underwater. As they swam together, Suzie realized she did not need air. She enjoyed exploring a world filled with brightly colored fish, waving plants, and different landscapes.

Hi, fellow dreamers

This one is a bundle of resources regarding LD and related subjects. It is part of Mark Vandekeere's website

http://www.consciousdreaming.com/lucid-dreaming/lucid-dream-out-of-body-experiences-resources.htm

Enjoy surfing!

Hi, lucid folks

If you like to know more about the history of parapsychological research, the methods, the implications and the rather late news, I highly recommend this book:

The conscious universe : the scientific truth of psychic phenomena / Dean I. Radin (HarperCollins) 1997 ISBN 0-06-251502-0 (cloth) ISBN 0-06-251526-8 (pbk.)

The author is the leading researcher in one of two US laboratories, dedicated full time to the research of Psi phenomena. A good readable book.

Contents

...

Theme 1: Motivation Chapter 1: What is Psi? Chapter 2: Experience Chapter 3: Replication Chapter 4: Meta - Analysis

Theme 2: Evidence Chapter 5: Telepathy Chapter 6: Perception at a Distance Chapter 7: Perception through Time Chapter 8: Mind - Matter Interaction Chapter 9: Mental Interactions with Living Organisms Chapter 10: Field Consciousness Chapter 11: Psi in the Casino Chapter 12: Applications

Theme 3: Understanding Chapter 13: A Field Guide to Scepticism Chapter 14: Seeing Psi Chapter 15: Metaphysics

Theme 4: Implications Chapter 16: Theory Chapter 17: Implications ...

Ralf

P.S. My point of view is: Psi research is rewarding. It didn't happen, because it isn't easy to reproduce Psi effects, to measure them, to exclude fraud. But the main reason for not accepting the outcomes of scientific Psi research seems to be, that mainstream scientists (and by this the educational system and so on) don't want to accept it, because these outcomes are challenging their basic assumptions regarding space, time and individuality. The resistance of mainstream science (and consensus consciousness) re the results of Psi research have played and still do play a great role in hindering the broad acceptance, this research surely deserves. In my eyes Psi research has already shown, that we can't keep up our concepts of space, time and individuality, as they used to be. We are deeply connected, or like U2 sung: "We are one, but we're not the same." And we live in a deeply interconnected, conscious universe.

BETTER ANGELS by Howard V. Hendrix is a fascinating mix of cutting edge scientific theories and far-out metaphysical speculation, with a certain lucid dreaming element that will be appealing to science fiction readers in the lucid dreaming community. Throughout the text you will find sprinkled references such as this one: Quote:

Was the Big Bang itself the sign of a shift in the dreaming void? The creation of spacetime and physical reality, as a result of the dreaming void becoming conscious of the dream, awakening to the fact that it was dreaming? Was the ignition of the stars - and everything else that followed - the result of the dreamer becoming lucid within the dream?

Dreams and other forms of altered consciousness are a theme throughout all of Hendrix's books, which form a big, interlocking story dealing with such themes as spiritual transcendence and the nature of reality; however, this book talks about lucid dreaming more than I recall being the case in his other three novels, which I read a while back.

In the spirit of posting suggestive reading material centering around the subject of lucid dreaming, I'd like to state my own personal LD-bible. The Lucid Dreamer, by Malcolm Godwin. In it, he focuses more on the spiritual aspect of the lucid state, though with enough of a scientific backup to keep the book from seeming too metaphysically bent. The author even mentions Stephen LaBerge on more than one occasion. Godwin's approach to lucidity is very diverse, having selected aspects of a variety of spiritual backgrounds (Buddhism, Hindu, etc.) to draw his examples upon. Also, the overall layout and read of the book is very inviting to the average person I should think.

Fenrir

Hi dream readers,

would anybody be so kind to recommend a useful book or books about dream yoga?

thanks and _____ dreams to all

mikolas

Yes, the finest I've seen:

The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche

Those who have been reading this forum for a few months are probably all too familiar with my frequent references to this book, which presents the practice of Tibetan dream yoga within a very clear explanation of the Buddhist precepts that form its context. The author is not only very authoritative, having been raised since birth and received extensive formal education in this tradition; he's also lived and taught in India, Italy and the USA for many years and is exceedingly adept at sorting through the mythology to identify the essential information and present it in a manner that people from other cultural backgrounds can understand and use. While emphasizing the value of connecting with an ancient tradition, he notes that if you don't relate to the various deities and dakinis you can visualize something different - in the fine spirit of Buddhist teachings that state, "If this doesn't work for you, try something else!"

Joy

Joy,

thanks a lot, though I have been quite sure - since today's search at Amazon.com - that the "Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep" is the book I'd been looking for, I appreciate your words of reassurance. And there's much more to this Joyful synchonicity: I was just browsing through your site when the e-mail with your post arrived! I like your work very much, in fact I have already set your picture of deers on a snowy hillsade as a wallpaper on my desktop...huh. What is more, I am willing to buy a drum and my girlfriend wants to start practicing the Middle Eastern dance... Now isn't that a damn intriguing coincidence?

Wish you very very ________ dreams,

mikolas

Delightful!

Happy drumming, dancing and dreaming,

Joyously, Joy

Greetings, LD'ers:

I am reading a really cool book I wanted to share with you all.

It is called "The Kin of Ata are waiting for You" by Dorothy Bryant .

Amazon.com has it used for $5..

An easy read...Very entertaining...and it did trigger a few LD's for me.

zzzzZZZZ(What makes us so different?) z z z z Joe

z z z zzzZZZZ(maybe that we've been there) Z Z

Hey, Joseph,

I'd like to add my own enthusiastic endorsement of that novel; I've read it two or three times and will no doubt read it again in the future. Very entertaining and delightfully dreamy...

see you in the Dreamtime...

-adblasta

Greetings, All:

I have begun an interesting book I happened to come across at one of these Megabookstore/Coffeeshop/Haven-for-the searching/CavernousEnglishLibraryLooking/ Warehouse Establishments (*).

It is called:

"The Master of Lucid Dreams"

By Russian Psyciatrist Olga Kharitidi M.D.

It was a little slow at first, but I am enjoying it more and more'.

Her bio lists actually traveling through Samarkand (central Asia) and studying Shamanism....

The quasi-fictitious format of the text leaves me wondering just how autobiographical it is" Where is the line between fact and fiction?'..

Ralf, you frequent mention of your practice of "Heilpracticioner" comes to mind'.

I am about 1/3 rd of the way through"

I was thinking if anyone wanted to get it and catch up, we could have a online discussion.

I would not mind waiting until any of you are up to page 83 (of only 220) '.

Let me know soon'.

zzz(* No doubt the cause of numerous small, eccentric book store closures locally) z z z Joe

Joe,

Olga has also written another book about her contacts with shamanism (Entering the Circle.) She seems to inspire fascination and doubt in everyone. I heard her interviewed on the radio last year, taped the whole thing, and listened to it three times. She sounds very spontenous and sincere to me, but there are people who claim to be experts on Siberian shamanism who swear she's a fraud. She has certainly has had a strange life.

Doug

For those who are interested in interpreting dreams and in incubating dreams on specific topics, I can highly recommend the very clear-minded approach in Living Your Dreams by Dr. Gayle Delaney. This 1979 book was loaned to me by a friend and I'm glad to say Dr. Delaney seems to still be very active in this field, with information on this and more recent books on her website at www.gdelaney.com.

Hi dreambodies

There is an interesting article on lucid dreaming by Susan Blackmore <swoon> at her website. http://www.susanblackmore.co.uk/si91ld.html

It is an article she wrote on the subject for Skeptical Inquirer in 1991. Although it probably won't have much new information for seasoned oneironauts, it is a good introductory article on the subject.

I particularly enjoyed her concluding remarks, Quote:

Waking Up The oddest thing about lucid dreams" and, to many people who have them, the most compelling'is how it feels when you wake up. Upon waking up from a normal dream, you usually think, "Oh, that was only a dream." Waking up from a lucid dream is more continuous. It feels more real, it feels as though you were conscious in the dream. Why is this? I think the reason can be found by looking at the mental models the brain constructs in waking, in ordinary dreaming, and in lucid dreams.

I have previously argued that what seems real is the most stable mental model in the system at any time. In waking life, this is almost always the input-driven model, the one that is built up from the sensory input. It is firmly linked to the body image to make a stable model of "me, here, now." It is easy to decide that this represents "reality" while all the other models being used at the same time are "just imagination" (Blackmore 1988).

Now consider an ordinary dream. In that case there are lots of models being built but no input-driven model. In addition there is no adequate selfmodel or body image. There is just not enough access to memory to construct it. This means, if my hypothesis is right, that whatever model is most stable at any time will seem real. But there is no recognizable self to whom it seems real. There will just be a series of competing models coming and going. Is this what dreaming feels like?

Finally, we know from research that in the lucid dream there is higher arousal. Perhaps this is sufficient to construct a better model of self. It is one that includes such important facts as that you have gone to sleep, that you intended to signal with your eyes, and so on. It is also more similar to the normal waking self than those fleeting constructions of the ordinary dream. This, I suggest, is what makes the dream seem more real on waking up. Because the you who remembers the dream is more similar to the you in the dream. Indeed, because there was a better model of you, you were more conscious.

If this is right, it means that lucid dreams are potentially even more interesting than we thought. As well as providing insight into the nature of sleep and dreams, they may give clues to the nature of consciousness itself.

She has a number of other articles on the site that may be of interest to oneironauts, on OBEs, "alien abduction"/sleep paralysis experiences, etc.

-Arthur the amazing electric dream kitten

Greetings Oneironauts!

Social Dreaming Of the Frin" by Ursula K. LeGuin, is an entertaining story presented as an anthopological report about a society on another plane of existence who share dreams every night - basically indisputable and vivid "mutual dreaming." It can be found in the October/November issue of The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction

Hi, Everyone-I am a litle over half way through The Art of Dreaming by Carlos Castaneda and some of it is disturbing the crap out of me. Have any of you read it (probably, of course) and what do you think about it? Traipsing about the Forum has assured me that many of you folks are deeply intelligent and insightful and I am hoping some of you, esp. the more experienced oneironauts can give me some feedback on the notions of inorganic beings and the shadow world and the gates of dreaming that he talks about. I am upset that he suggests that it is a predatory Universe we reside in and that any interaction in the dream world with entities other than human will end up with an exacting toll. I understand that there is an equilibrium of sorts and that energy is always exchanged, but I don't want to feel like I can't seek and hang out with any teachers or allies without getting sucked on like a bottle of Knudsen Recharge! I know it's only one of countless tomes on the subject, but it has stirred up enough concern in me to seek feedback from you who are more experienced. Looking forward to your replies.-Tif

p.s.I've not read any of his other books, but for The Wheel of Time.

Hola Senorita Tiffany, Don Juan says: "check out the Carlos Castaneda trail in Open Conversations." It gets brutal at some points, so fasten your seat belt.

The predatorial universe is quite possibly true, OR is a fear-based (yet practical) mode of perceiving a "balanced" energetic universe system, OR is totally wrong (study all the religious traditions in the world, then study human history and culture, then it's pretty hard to believe any ONE thing). Humans are the most bizzare, perplexing creatures. I don't form real strong opinions so I'm not bound by anything--so I can't help you much. But it sounded like you needed some feedback. The inorganic beings--I don't know, deal with them IF or WHEN you encounter them--you may never.........or yet you may........ In lucid dreams (or non-lucid), if concerned at all about the above topics, my only advice would be: Know that you don't know--stay flexible and flow. Stick to the feelings of Freedom and Non-Harming whenever possible. Do know your underlying intent and you'll probably be ok. And with all the books, remember that words are weak in the end, oftentimes misleading--subject to endless misinterpretation and limitation).

Enjoy, Michael

Hey Tiffany,

I was an avid Castaneda enthusiast for some time until I got into the Tensegrity circuit which ended up turning me off to the whole thing.

A lot of Castaneda's techniques do work, I had my first willed lucid dream by looking for my hands, I've practiced "gazing" and "the right way of walking" and found them to be great trance induction methods and I essentially feel that there is a lot of worth in his books. That's not to say that I believe his experiences to be even 50% factual. There's an author by the name of Richard DeMille who got almost fanatical about debunking Castaneda. He put out a slim volume in the 60's or 70's pointing out some of the discrepancies and casting doubt as to whether or not Castaneda was legit. Later, I think it was in the 80's, he revised his work into a 500+ page tome exclusively dedicated to bringing Castaneda down. When I was immersed in the Castaneda trip I didn't want to read this book, no one wants their guru debunked, but I couldn't help taking peeks at sections of the book and had to admit that there was some pretty compelling evidence that Castaneda had fabricated a great deal of the material. My personal belief is that Castaneda had some pretty interesting experiences, may have met a shaman or two in Mexico but that Don Juan was his literary creation. If you haven't read his other books, I would recommend them, they provide a pretty interesting read and there are some gold nuggets scattered here and there. I find it interesting that he described the method of Waking Induction of Lucid Dreams back in the 60's but he may have taken this from Gurdjieff or other sources.

As to allies and inorganic beings, you should be pretty safe from being abducted and having to live in some energetic tunnel in their universe as Don Juan stated that they weren't all that interested in women, femaleness being a common element in the universe whereas maleness is supposedly much more rare!

An interesting note, I've talked to a couple of people who apparently followed scouts in their dreams by pointing at them and shouting "intent" to reveal their true form behind the dream imagery but I believe it would be next to impossible to determine whether or not this is a real event or just the dream conforming to one's expectations.

If you believe that the dream is a real event, that it poses danger and that there are predatory energetic beings waiting to suck you dry "like a Knudson's Recharge", you may find that at some point you hit a brick wall in your dreaming practices due to fear. This happened to me during my OBE experiences when I believed them to be real events and not just another facet of lucid dreaming.

If your predilection is to interpret the dream events as real, you may be better off to heed Don Juan's advice. He say that the first enemy of a "man of knowledge" (translate to woman of knowledge) is fear and that fear has to be overcome to progress on the path of knowledge. Or you can just blunder around safe in the knowledge that you're making it up as you go, I think both viewpoints have their usefulness.

Sweet dreams,

-Quinn

Thanks, guys-First of all, goofy-lady jumps ahead twice in one week without doing her research thoroughly. "What are ultradian waves and have any of you ever read TAOD?", Good Lord (and Lady)! It is my sincere hope that I have not come off like a dimwit because I have a tendency to blaze forward without my feet underneath me, much like a child gong through growth spurts and resulting alterations in depth perception, hmmm. That's actually very appropriate, heehee. Also, typically I am not hindered by fear in my questing for understanding this matrix. That is why I was shocked at the profound uneasiness the ideas in this book instilled in me the last few days. Otherwise I wouldn't have asked for feedback amongst you. My obsessive-compulsive seems to go into overdrive sometimes and governs my sensibilities, sending me into exagerrated siliness. May I have the time and broad scope to proceed diligently into realization. Yay! The juice bottle is 1/2 full!

BELIEVE NOTHING COUNTER TO SENSE WITHOUT GOOD EVIDENCE

Remember Laplace's principle to believe nothing counter to sense without sufficient evidence? This was discussed in both Lucid Dreaming and Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming, though not of course in any works of CC. ;) If you don't apply Laplace's principle, you set your threshold for belief far too low. It is, of course, a different kind of mistake to set your belief-threshold far too high as some unreasonable skeptics do. But between too high and too low is the balance required, and "no evidence at all" seems rather too little upon which to base belief, no?

What would you think if I were to say: "Help! I just read Dreamcatcher by Stephen King. This is terrible! I am really upset by a world in which aliens are taking over pulling the puppet strings of hapless earthlings! What can I do about it!?" ;) Dear Tiffany, you are getting carried away by your powerful -- and otherwise wonderful -- imagination. A gift, or a curse? As with all talents, they have pluses and minuses, and a common challenge for sensitive and imaginative dreamers like you is: How to develop the optimal degree of lucidity (i.e., detachment, clarity) when faced with the overwhelming apparent reality of inner experience?

Looking at your reaction to the book another way, this is a perfect opportunity to practice the loving lucidity or compassionate wisdom we recommend. Think of the material you find in CC's books as a dream. Now, how can you best respond to these shadow figures? Please re-read Chapter 10: Overcoming Nightmares from Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming. It's available on the LI website under sample chapters.

Then try the re-dreaming exercise from the same Ch. 10: EXERCISE: RE-DREAMING RECURRENT NIGHTMARES.

And this just in from The DreamWorld Nightly News: "INORGANIC BEINGS!? It Came From Silicon Valley!! Commander Data leads Sentient Robots in World Domination Move"

;) In short, Tiffany, it's fiction. What else? But don't take my word for it, let your Critical Thinker have a go with it.

Finally, notice that this book isn't on TLI's list of recommended books on the topic of lucid dreaming. (See The Lucidity Institute FAQ.) This isn't an oversight.

More Light! Stephen

Stephen is right of course. Unfortunately I got into Carlos's novels at a very young age and much of my dreaming practices were based on his "belief system'. I started reading his novels at age 12, and the fact that I learned to lucid dream by his techniques threatened to pin me down in that belief system. After all it was an incredible experience, and I was young and impressionable. If I could be aware in my dreams then surely there was much more to his work! I took it all for granted for many years. Then he came out with "The Art of Dreaming'. I was horrified as you were. My dreaming took on the fear based beliefs of Carlos. I ended up stopping all together; a fear based decision that I will forever regret! After all inorganic beings were going to abduct me! Can you blame me for halting my dreaming practices? I was dreaming aware nearly every night, without even wanting to. I started sleeping sitting up in a chair or on my stomach, it seemed to dispel the dreams. Well I sincerely wish I could dream like that every night again, minus the fear that had been injected into me by that book. Beliefs have an effect on dreaming, so this is my advice to anyone who cannot find factual evidence that their beliefs are based in truth, look into your beliefs a bit. Challenge yourself. What do you really believe? Why? Make a list of your beliefs regarding dreams. Honestly evaluate them. I find it absurd that my inward journey of discovery was halted by an inappropriate injection of a fear based belief system! There is beauty, magic, wonder and horror in Carlos's books. I'll keep the beauty and magic and wonder, but to hell with the horror. I have found that negative experiences aren't there unless you are looking for them, sub-consciously or otherwise. I too, use many of the techniques and practices in his many books, but you will find these types of things have more than one source, and may have been totally extracted from other peoples work. If you do a little research on the Internet you will find that even Carlos himself has admitted that his books are metaphors. I think he was just trying to blow people away and open many people's minds up to new possibilities, he probably never even realized that some people took his work to heart, and literally believed every word. Then again who knows, maybe in the end he decieved himself as well.

Tiffany, I will never think you're a dimwit as I enjoy your writing style much too thoroughly for that.

I had my first intentional lucid dream the night I started reading "Art of Dreaming" - amused by the long, frustrating effort Carlos described, I thought, "Ha, bet I could do it tonight," put down the book, turned off the light and dreamed lucidly by morning. He was the first to introduce me to the idea that cultivating lucid dreaming can benefit the mind. Too bad if he's scared as many people as he's inspired. I ignored all that inorganic-being and soul-stealing stuff in favor of the viewpoint that in your dreams, you're in charge. I prescribe "The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep" by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche as a happy antidote. Take one chapter at bedtime.

Cheerfully, Joy

AIKIDO!

Tiffany, in my initial response to your dream anxieties above ("BELIEVE NOTHING COUNTER TO SENSE WITHOUT GOOD EVIDENCE") I'd forgotten that you practice Aikido. So, remembering the Aikido context, what do you do when you are attacked by (fictional or otherwise) "Inorganic Beings", "Ill-formed Astral Entities", "Monsters from the Id", or "The Ghost of Carlos Castaneda"?

Blend!

Right? Have you thought about applying Aikido to this realm of experience? Personally, I find the principles of Aikido extremely helpful for this sort of thing, and I expect others will too. Maybe you could explain how to the group? ;)

In the words of O'Sensei,

MASAKATSU AGATSU (roughly, "True victory is Self-mastery")

Warm Light, Stephen

Tiffany, Here is my last post regarding CC and his books. Apologies for the ones that have read it already:

"... I don't believe you should take the bubble thing in it's literal sense. Most of the stuff that are described in Castanedas's books refer to things that cannot really be explained with words. I bet many people had similar experiences where words are just not enough, where one doesn't know where to start when attempting to explain a personal mystical experience.

All, Castaneda's mostly talks about intent and will and the right way to live. Intent and will are two qualities that give the dreamer maximum control of a dream situation. You don't need to be on something to figure this out. When you attempt to control a dream, you don't use your reason to do it, you intent things to happen. It's fairly simple. If you practice or attempt to practice the "way of the warrior" you become more fluid in your waking life and save valuable energy to venture into dreaming. I believe it's common sense that if you try not to take things personally you do save your energy by not getting angry. It makes sense, doesn't it? I also believe that when he wrote "The Art of Dreaming" he never intented it to be a dreaming manual as such. Simply put, he tried to give his own view of what happens when one starts to use dreaming as a portal to other worlds. I've read all his books and I am also sceptical whether all he writes about actually happened. But it still gave me the chance to question a lot of things and also got me involved with dreaming. What applies more to our lifes I guess is that "right way to live", "the way of the warrior". He simply states that when you do your best on any given situation, don't take things personally and follow your heart, at the end you are free."

You don't need Carlos guidance for this. It's only logical that if you act as your heart tells you, you don't waste your energy doing what other people want to do with with your life. Take your life into your own hands.

"Castaneda: fiction or non-fiction? Doesn't really matter. It's still utterly funny to read his books."

So don't believe whatever you read. Process it a bit and if it suits you keep it if makes you unhappy toss it away.

Hello, my dear, fellow, souls in skin suits! -Thank you kindly for reminding me of the rudiments. Going deeper into my center so that I can go farther out into infinity is the key. If I expand my center to encompass all I encounter and beyond, then I remember that we are the continuum and there is no need for fear or separatism. Fears and conflict melt away when we blend with different energies and see things from those unique points of view. Thusly we go forward equipped with an ever expanding understanding of awareness and compassion. I was feeling particularly vulnerable when I wrote that post. Sometimes I get hit with waves of uncertainty and feelings of disempowerment in this vastness that IS. I feel like a speck lost in infinity and there is an illusion of helplessness then. Hormones, seratonin levels, war, nonsense, discord...any of these and more can trip my wiring of into a self-defeating, small system of old, erroneous programming from inadvertant ignorance and pain. Then I remember my Ai Ki Do...the Path of Harmonic Energy, the Way of Synchronistic Love Frequencies, etc. translate it as ye like. O'Sensei became activated with Realization of endlessness and the paradoxes of navigating it. I believe even he had lost days when he asked his wife, "Who am I?" and she would tenderly answer, "You are Morihei." and remind him to just be. What a novel idea (chortle, heehee) to use Aikido in dreamwork. I keep forgetting to Remember. May you all remember to wake up so that you can sleep well, er, you know what I mean. Gorgeous, endless dreamtime to you. -Tif

In Kissing Kate, by Lauren Maracle, sixteen year-old Lissa enjoys a passionate kiss with her best friend Kate one night following which her friend won't even talk to her. Thrown into paroxysms of adolescent angst and confusion, Lissa serendipitously discovers a pale-blue paperback on Lucid Dreams by a certain Dr. LaBerge, which she finds tucked away in a used book store. By the end of the novel she has figured out her sexual identity and, far more importantly, acquired the skill of lucid dreaming...

Just a tip that Wikibooks is developing a text on lucid dreaming. For anyone who does not know, Wikibooks are "free, open content textbooks and other classroom texts [. . .] [that are] open to revision and addition by anyone'including you." I can hardly think of a more qualified group of reviewers/contributors.

Joshua

Dreamers:

Just thought it worth mentioning that Stephen's got a new book out. It's called LUCID DREAMING: A Concise Guide to Awakening in Your Dreams and In Your Life, and it even comes with a CD!

Best of dreams,

Peter

Dear Peter,

I have read both EWLD and the new book. In case you haven't read it, the new book is basically a distilled version of EWLD. The CD is a remake of the tapes/CDs that came with the NovaDreamer. Stephen narrates all the new tracks and it sounds much better than the earlier versions. But, it's almost word-for-word the same. From the lucid dreaming books and articles I've read EWLD is by far the seminal work. However, there has been more research done since EWLD was published and I would like to see a new book that covers that research. In that respect the Concise Guild is a letdown. I'm certain there's new clinical research covering the effect of drugs, vitamins and herbs on REM sleep and lucid dreaming. There must also be some statistics on how well the NovaDreamer did as a LDID product with the people who bought it. And there must be either some new LD induction techniques (e.g., CAT) or improvements to existing ones (e.g., WILD) that can be covered. What about any new research covering brain function and physiological effects resulting from lucid dreaming. If lucid dreaming is ever to become the powerful mental awareness/creativity tool we all believe it can be then humanity needs to learn about any breakthroughs or new techniques as soon as possible. Who better than the experts to keep pushing the boundaries, not for just the privileged few who can afford the workshops, but for everyone who has a dream.

Very Best,

Scot Stride

Scot, why don't you write the new book? I mean that seriously. I'll help.

Paul

Scot:

Paul might have something there...

Peter

hello all, I also bought the new book by Stephen, and although it is very succinct, it is true that there is nothing new in there that most of us have already known for years. It would be great if a new book was written, but is there really any new information available? If you are interested in brain physiology, some of the most current information I have come across is in J. Allan Hobson's "The Dream Drugstore". This is a very lucid and well put together book that details the chemical changes that occur while the brain is in, and switching between, various states of consciousness. The author is Professor of Psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, and offers some contrast to LaBerge(but gives all respect due), -we need to be well rounded, right? This is your brain on (it's own) drugs. The book is from 2001 so it is rather current, and definitely gave me some things to think about, and it does cover some information on the neurobiology of lucid dreaming.

Dear Calmplex,

Thanks for the reference. A book review can be found at: http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?id=926&type=book&cn=21

I'll give it a look. One thing we must realize is the state-of-the-art in lucid dreaming does not require taking any drugs or vitamin supplements. Indeed the historical datum all point to lucidity as being a purely mental exercise learned through proper training. In that respect we can experiment with substances to improve our brain function (like oxygen flow), but I doubt there is one single magic pill that will turn a person with zero dream recall ability into a champion lucid dreamer. We should focus on developing better and easier training techniques. The conditioned-response to stimuli has worked so well in other areas it should work well for learning lucid dreaming. Some of the LD techniques try to teach conditioned responses, like doing reality tests when we see something, but it seems only a handful of onieronauts have been really successful at this. I have to agree with Laberge that memory is a vital component, so any techniques or devices that can invoke a memory response to a stimuli should be powerful. Any induction device, whether it delivers light or olfactory cues, has to strongly connect to our memory like a computer address to a memory register. Whenever I see, smell, hear or feel that cue, my response, whether I'm sleeping or awake, must be to remember a specific thought and slavishly carry out a conditioned response. Any new book should focus on exploring LD training techniques and devices using tested methods to produce the desired conditioned responses. For example, I use a training device that vibrates my index finger and then plays into headphones the word "Dream'. I use this training device over and over again until the response is conditioned'when my finger vibrates I automatically think "dream.' This sounds stupid simple, but how well does it work in a clinical setting? I don't know. Now, I have heard arguments that our prospective memory sucks when we are asleep, but what about conditioned memory. There are arguments brewing (http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2000-08/NYU-Nnfl-1508100.php) that long-term conditioned memories are unstable, but for the purposes of learning lucid dreaming, we are not talking about needing to implant a lifelong memory like a trauma. I believe that LD training techniques need to be as mentally simple as possible. With the aid of specific electronic training devices tied to using LDIDs it should be possible to quickly learn the sensation and environment of lucid dreams. Then it's a matter of weaning oneself from these electronic crutches and flying free. All I can contribute is advancing the state of the art of electronic LDIDs and training devices (with perhaps a journal paper thrown in). It is up to others to carry out the clinical research studies and write the books.

Regards,

Scot Stride

The interesting thing is, I have a horrible memory, for past events as well as events to carry out in the future. But I'm an o.k. lucid dreamer. It's been said that a lucid dreamer is more capable than the average person at finding their way out of a forest, but I actually got lost in the forest as a kid and as an adult, I can't drive anywhere except around the block without a navigator passenger! I have to write everything down, I have lists of lists, and journals for this and that. It's almost like reading someone else's life when I look in them. But I can induce lucid dreams and easily remember my goals when I am in them. I think this is because of my passioned intent. Focused intent is everything, as far as L.D.ing is concerned. What I want to know is when is the next generation of D.I.L.D. going to be invented and reach the market? LaBerge doesn't seem interested anymore, maybe if the device induced an ayahuasca experience!? But seriously, what about a more comfortable mask with newer circuitry, the basic idea could be the same; oh, and a setting knob that doesn't break off. And affordable, that would be an improvement. I would pursue this challenge myself right now if it weren't for the fact I've got my hands full with another endeavor. If this device were marketed properly, the responsible person(s) could retire very wealthy in a short time(if that's what they want) and simultaneously bring lucid dreaming research to the forfront of our culture. Anyone tempted?

Dear Calmplex,

Before any rumors take flight on this, let's clarify the notion that LaBerge is no longer interested in a new version of the NovaDreamer. Quite the contrary! As far as I know, he already has a revised model that will answer your wishes for more a comfortable mask, updated circuitry, improved features and less expense. Bringing it to market is the final step, and he is currently considering various options. Rest assured, you will hear all about it when he's ready to announce it. ;)

Meanwhile, the best of lighthearted-induced lucid dreams to all, Keelin

great news to hear that Keelin, if he wasn't already doing such, I was hoping that some prodding and smart-assed comments by the peanut gallery would catalyze the undertaking- if not by him, then by someone! i suppose this was meant to be secret information, untill now. maybe I should sell my NovaDreamer while it's still valuable. Anyone interested?

Dear Calmplex,

I have designed and built 2 masks and the 3rd is in the works. I'm pursuing a patent through Caltech (my employer) for the REM tracking technique I use in the mask. So far I've done it on my own time and expense (~$500) and have logged some very promising test results on myself. I would love to have the funds to build a fully integrated working prototype including an embedded microcontroller and Zigbee-USB wireless interface. Other than funding and some intelligent engineering which is all very possible, the key component to making this LDID work is the REM tracking device. It's the heart of the system because it produces detailed 2D information about eye movement. Combined with some signal processing and filtering code, the system could be trained to deliver cues at the onset of REM dreaming. Paul Tholey discusses the importance of recognizing the REM dream state early in some of his papers.

As for the affordability, the cost of such a unit should not be anymore expensive than a high end cell phone. In that case, $100 USD or less seems reasonable. The public expects cheap consumer electronics and an LDID is no different. Furthermore, the mask can be designed to be durable and comfortable. The ND mask seems quite flimsy, and the PCB is only 0.3mm thick. It is not particularly comfortable and I can only wear it for a few hours before my forehead and scalp starts to itch. Sometimes I wake up with a red rash on my forehead where the cloth was pressing. I typically set an alarm for 2 am and then wear it for 3 hours. The masks I've built can be worn much longer because the foam is softer and contours to the face. An RN friend of mine looked at the ND construction and my masks and suggested that the foam be softer and covered with a material that is hypoallergenic (i.e., chemically neutral) to human skin. In that case some work still needs to be done to find the optimal material for 'rash-free' comfort. And the dreamer should be allowed to sleep in their most comfortable position, including their abdomen. All this means is that some human ergonomic engineering is needed along with a solid electronic/software design.

It's common knowledge that the LI is working on a new mask design (Keelin confirms this again, but it would be good to hear LaBerge weigh in with some of the technical details). I hope it is radically better than the ND and SND and uses state-of-the art surface-mount electronics. It needs to run on a small rechargeable lithium battery as opposed to the AAAs. It needs a micro USB or wireless RF interface to a computer. It needs different colored LEDs'blah, blah, blah. If their new offering is basically a glitzy version of the ND I will not buy it. It should be radically better and packed with lots of features. Having now reverse-engineered an ND, I can see many ways to build a better dream-trap.

Regards,

Scot Stride

Was thinking about this yesterday, the main problem for me was the ridigity of the circuit board in the mask itself, actually cracked the board early on and had to do some home repair to get it working again.

An idea: a circuit board that can fit in a cap-like device on the top of the head, wires leading down to lights and motion detector in the mask.

The circuit board could be made of separate small sections to make it more flexible; ideally: A circuit board moulded to the contour of the head. This would of course requre some kind of chin strap along with the strap from the eye mask. If the mask covering the eyes only had to hold the LED's and the motion detector(s) that would enable a much more comfortable mask to be made. Wonder for those of us who've owned N.D.'s what was the comfort factor for you?

Did that affect how often you used it? It seems that if it could be made a really comforatable thing then wearing it could become a habit.

The discomfort of the N.D.for me, while not great did seem to cause a subtle build up of resistance to wearing it over time. What was your experience?

What about the "Smart Foam" that they've been making matresses out of? (supposedly it molds to the body, making for a very comfortable sleep) A thin slice might work well for a mask.

Agree that the mask can be irritating.

For a first try the N.D. was a good start, the features and custom settings were well thought out, however agree that the next N.D. has to be a quantum leap better to convince another purchase. Ease of wear is a factor that will help the next version of the N.D. to be a sucess. May that get the same attention that the device itself was given.

Regards,

Daniel

Remeber when S. LaB. was first building the prototype device, an article about it and there was a photo of him with a mask that had small round neon lamps that circled his eyes.

Now just this last christmas season there was a booth in the Bryant Park holiday sale here in New York City and it had a new kind of lumenessent filament that was in watchbands and other things there were several colors and they were made to blink and create the sense of moving patterns this material which the person said was new would make a very neat multi-color light source for LDID

Daniel and Scot, seems like you guys have put alot of thought into this. Scot, are you an electrical engineer? I guess so, if you can reverse-engineer something like the ND. There are so many things to do in this world, I had always wanted to learn more about electronics-the marvels they provide! the good thing about the uncomfortableness of the ND for many of us, was that we never became dependent on them for lucidity! The memory foam you mention Daniel, is amazing stuff. I have a mattress, a pillow, and an eye mask built of the stuff. They are made out of a specially formulated polyurethane foam that conforms to bodies that emit heat, such as us. I think that would be the material of choice. As far as light color is concerned, I'm not so sure that it would really matter. For one thing, once the light makes it through the mostly closed eyelids(my wife actually dreams in REM with her eyes tightly clamped shut, its wierd!), I don't know if the color of the LEDS(or whatecer the light source would be) is distinguishable. And also, whenever the ND actually induced a lucid dream for me, I've had no recollection of seeing the lights first, it's basically been an "un"conscious clue- I would just suddenly realize that I "might" be dreaming, and if I had the ND on in my dream I would test it, test would result in the negative(meaning I was dreaming because the light test flash didn't work) and off i would go. Maybe that is unique to my experience, I don't know.

Dear All,

lucid-dreaming-kit.com

Has anyone bought this product? The website has been around for a little over a year. It does not speak well of the Nova Dreamer or similar products.

Regards,

Scot Stride

Scot:

I never heard of it, but I did check out the ad.

$60 for a sixty page book and (yet another) "binaural beat" audio stimulation CD? Seems a bit pricey...and why limit such an important product to 250 copies...and why haven't those copies sold after a year, even at the "low," and as yet unchanged introductory price?

The virtue bullets also seem to echo ETWOLD a bit too closely; most likely a coincidence, but quite telling regardless.

I think a mild caveat emptor may be in order here. It may be a valid product (anything promoting lucid dreaming can't be all bad), but I doubt it has much to offer to someone who is already familiar with the basic physiology and techniques.

Of course, that's only my skeptical opinion, as drawn from a single ad...

Peter

I agree with Peter. Also what I don't like about is that it makes it seem way too "quick and easy" than it really is: "MASTER it in 7 days!" suuuure, buddy. I'm sure somewhere on there it says "results may vary."

Jason

Yup, I have to throw in my agreement with all of the above. I had previously looked it over. Now, I may be a sucker for just about any product that promotes lucid dreaming, but even I didn't fall for this one!

Paul

I also agree...it looks like a late night infomercial. I sure hope we don't start seeing this on TV!

I must admit, though, I'm curious about a few of his comments:

1. "The ultimate lucid dreaming tool that we may already have" Our brain? I'm pretty sure I have one since I also didn't fall for this.

2. "The little known herb that will increase lucid dreaming"

3. "The simple drink that increases dreaming" I don't believe he used the word "lucid" here.

Anyone know what he is referring to?

Steve