this will probably be my last post for awhile, because the tendonitis in my fingers got real bad and i need to reduce computer time. the lucid dream healing didn't work, wendy,but i'll try again in my next ld. before i go, joy, you mentioned some time ago that you had 2 dream yoga tapes. could you post which and by who these are. thanks. i got 2 by surya das but i don't really like him. he sounds like a new age salesman. dreaming away, naomi

Hi, Naomi -

I agree with you about the Surya Das tapes - might be inspiring to someone who has no previous interest in dreams, but not much practical information. The tapes I liked I no longer have and they might not still be available - couldn't find them when I checked their web site - but they were by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche and here's what I posted a while back: "I borrowed the series of six tapes from a friend - "The Power of Dreams" - info on the back says 'The Ligmincha Institute, P.O. Box 1892, Charlottesville, Virginia, 22902 USA; Phone: (804) 977-6161; Fax: (804) 977-7020; Internet: http://www.comet.net/ligmincha/; E-mail: Ligmincha@aol.com .' - it's an informally taped series of lectures or classes - seems excellent as a supplement to the book, as it expands upon the material in it plus you get more of his sense of humor."

I'll miss you here. Good luck with your fingers, take good care of yourself, and if I get a chance I'll see if I can dream some healing energy your way!

Joy

Dear Naomi and Joy:

What fun to know we'll be meeting next month at the retreat! It's been a delight to get a sense of you both here on the Forum. I can hardly wait to add the dimensions of faces and voices to the enthusiastic spirits that have already taken shape in my mind.

Naomi: One of the women who is planning to attend is a Reiki Master. She has offered to give sessions to our participants. Maybe she will be able to help the tendonitis in your fingers.

Aloha dreams to all, Keelin

Had a strange experience. I have had a few lucid dreams, short ones, where I am aware that I am dreaming, but unsure if my real body is still safely in bed or if I am walking around or moving in bed.

The latest installment was yesterday morning. I put on the Nova Dreamer at about 5am and whatever time after that I noticed the cue. It flashed in my eyes in a geometric pattern. I knew I must be dreaming, or could very well be dreaming. I was in bed and it felt fairly real. Real enough to make me wonder if I were not wakened by the cue. THen I am crawling about slowly through the house using nothing but my arms and the rest of me seems to be floating. Then I float off the living room floor. I still wonder if my body is not somehow reacting to all of this and if it is safe. I want to have a test for this, but do not know of one. I wake up without going to the Sherlock Holmes Sittingroom building.

In another dream a few weeks before this I am again in a dream and aware that I am very probably dreaming, just still very concerned about my real body because things feel quite real. I am in the living room and there is a giant aztec pyramid in the front yard. I want to go outside and find the Holmes sittingroom building but am too afraid that I might be seen by real people and that I am walking in my sleep.

Any suggestions?

And has anyone else noticed that the writing reality check-where you look at a piece of writing and then look away to see if it changes-doesn't work after you've used it a few times?? I've had a few dreams where this test has failed to make the letter I am looking at change. Quite odd. In one dream I am trying hard to make the letter change because I am certain I must be dreaming and I want proof. I almost get fustrated enough to stamp my foot :-)

Thanks Barbara :-))

Hi, Barbara

Nice to see you again.

Did you ever sleepwalk?

I have sometimes been on the border of dreaming and waking, I sometimes felt three different bodies. My Astrid told me about strange sleeping positions, that remind of the dreamscenes, I probably have been in at the time. But never did I get up and sleepwalk. There are some signs for me, that I'm close to physical awakening in a LD:

1. The environment gets fuzzy. 2. I can't move the dreambody at will. It takes a certain position, which I later find to be the sleeping position of the physical body, or similar. So, if I know I am dreaming I don't worry about physical body, I only worry, I could wake up. I only had one LD, in which I woke myself up, because I heard steps and wasn't sure, whether they came from physical reality. They didn't. In the long run of more and more LD I lost my fears regarding security of physical body. Hope for you it is the same. If I want to know for certain, that I'm dreaming, I leap into the air. That is still the most reliable and fast test for me. I had this experience with writing, too.

Keep on good work

Yours Ralf

Hi, Barbara -

I think the idea of changeable writing as a nearly infallible reality test is some writing that is going to have to change in the next edition of Stephen LaBerge's book. Writing doesn't always change in dreams, nor (in this electronic era) does it always stay stable in waking life!

Joy

Hi Joy. Yes, it might have to change. Because even when I first started with LaBerge's first book years ago, I had the same experience with the writing not changing. I called and told another psychologist, don't recall his name now, and was told that I just imagined it. Now that I am more acquainted with the dream world and getting better dream recall I can say with confidence that the writing in these recent dreams did NOT change. I guess it comes from practicing too much in reality. Your mind is able to stablize what was once an unstable image. This is interesting because it might mean that if you practice your dream you want to have enough times in reality through imagination, the dream world version should be very stable. This might account for why favorite actors, characters, or whatever that we dream about are more stable than the enviroment.

Ralf- No, I don't sleep walk but I do recall an incident that happened a few years ago that I would rather not post about. It makes me concerned because I had gotten out of bed really fast without having a chance to really awaken and I was completely aware of sluggishly going down the hallway and fighting not to pass out. It just makes me very wary about having dreams that are too vivid as if I were in a real world. Most of my lucid dreams and dreams in general are not that realistic and do not have much enviromental realism. It is more like an intense daydream rather than being in a real world.

What worries me is having my body do things it shouldn't while I am lucid dreaming. Why I think it is possible it might is the fact that the dreams I mentioned, where I was scared my body was moving, happened late in the night. When it is most likely to have LDs because you are rested and the REMs are longer and closer together. It is also when I am most wakeful. I am afraid I might not be in REM but a kind of meditative state or whatever.

I guess it is just a fear because there is no real test for it like there is reality checks. The only test is to wake up and who wants to do that after such a long wait and effort to get lucid!

:-))

Barbara and Joy

The only way to be 100% sure not to be physically hurt is to lock up your body, when you go to sleep. I'm not joking. But if you think of the thousands of times when you have dreamt with your body safe in bed and look at your fear, what does it mean then? Isn't it worthwhile to have thousand LDs and one time passing out with a small risk to get actually hurt? I somehow can relate to your fear. It is my fear of loosing control of physical body that hindered me for a long time to have WILDs. And this fear is still there. Only with more and more experience I can trust in being safe. Isn't it worthy to give up control in this way, if there are worlds to discover in your self? I'm sometimes thinking, that being lucid is a more subtle way to control. It is somehow deeper, because it means learning to control your awareness and maybe learning to control your desire to control.

State -tests with writing: I still think, the test is valuable. You can be rather sure, you are dreaming, when the writing changes. And for me still the desire to test my state is the best cue, that leads me to the realisation that I'm dreaming. Every state check is then a means to confirm this state.

I wish you pleasant LDs, while your body lies safe and calm in bed. Perhaps you might want to imagine some helpful beings around you to create a safe environment. Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche suggested it.

Yours Ralf

Hi, Ralf -

Yeah, I agree that any state test is fine as long as I find it sufficiently convincing, and often none is necessary.

I just wish Stephen's book didn't give the misleading impression that the writing test is nearly infallible. It says, "In my experience, the best test is the following: find some writing and read it once (if you can), look away, then re-read it, checking to see if it stays the same. Every time I have tried this in my own lucid dreams the writing has mutated in some way.... An equally effective state test, if you normally wear a digital watch, is to look at its face twice; in a dream, it will never behave correctly...."

Of course if this is always true for him then either of these tests is great for him, but not necessarily for everyone. No more can this be extrapolated universally from one's own experience than the notion, which he debunks, that it's impossible to say one's own name in a dream.

I feel confident that in the nearly dozen years since this book was first printed, he's heard enough accounts from people like Barbara to be prepared to modify his statement a bit, so that dreamers will not be unduly puzzled when they come upon stable writing!

Tibetan dream yogis apparently lack this expectation that writing will change, to the point that they re-read and memorize long texts in their dreams in order to reproduce them faithfully when awake.

Barbara -

The concerns you bring up here, remind me of the ones Naomi has been mentioning under the "post your LDs" thread - they seem to have in common a sense of concern as to what the physical body is actually doing during those strange disorienting moments when one is unsure of whether sensory input is physical or not. I guess I don't have a suggestion except to say that it seems to happen to all of us from time to time, and you may get used to it and even get to enjoy the strangeness of it after a while. I remember once feeling pretty scared for a moment when my body seemed to be in bed but spinning horizontally around an axis perpendicular to the bed, like a compass needle gone wild. Even though it was clearly impossible it felt so real that I was alarmed. Afterwards I thought it was pretty neat that the mind can come up with such realistic sensations for something so unfamiliar and bizarre.

Continued success to you!

Joy

Joy-

WRT RC's and "writing" or "watch reading": I think Stephen's "writing change" & the "digital watch" test methods assume redundancy. To do a complete reality test using these two methods you should "read the writing" or "digital watch time" THREE TIMES. I believe that in Stephens experience, and in that of his groups, the writing/time changes in about 1/3 of the tests. If this is true of the normal population (reflected in SLB's dreamcamps), testing 3X brings the statistical sampling error to ~98% TRUE/AWAKE if no change occurs. If "writing changes" in the 1st, 2nd or 3rd test-- confirm by flying. If you're cynical, you might be careful about jumping out of a window after reading one of Stephen's book pages -- i think he has a magic book that does some strange shifting...... "Is it true, or is it Memorex".... -- Grins,

Dominick

Thanks for the data. This sounds to me closer to the true situation than what's represented in the book, supporting my idea that it's due for an update. Another quote: "Read some text twice. Don't conclude that you are awake until you have some solid proof (for example, the writing stays the same every time you look at it.)"

Clearly writing that doesn't change isn't "solid proof" of a waking state; while writing that does change, unless electronic, is still a pretty good dream sign. Here's an excerpt from this morning's dreams:

10/11 February 02

0500 Having gotten e-mail about what to bring to the Kalani retreat just before going to bed, now I found myself milling about on the first day with various other participants trying to figure out where we were supposed to go. This went on for quite a while and eventually I needed a bathroom; found a toilet out in a hall; rejected this (missing the odd-toilets dream sign) for one with more privacy in an adjoining restroom; there, in a mirror, I saw behind me a hand-painted poster of a long Hawaiian word, with the mirror-reversed letters changing from yellow to red to yellow again. I'd written yesterday in the forum a complaint about LaBerge's book insisting that writing always changes in dreams (and never in waking life); now I thought, "Okay, letters don't change on a hand-painted poster'. Oh, ha-ha, I'm dreaming!' ' and took off into the air to verify it for myself, enjoying being lucid and amused at the joke on me ' that my first effective dream sign after lodging my complaint was changing writing!

Do you really suppose the normal population is reflected in SLB's dreamcamps?

More grins,

Joy

Joy, it's wierd you should mention that a dreamsign for you is strange bathrooms/toilets. My mother and I have what we term "potty dreams" where the bathroom is strange and not very realistic.

Here's a good, funny dream example: In a long dream about getting adopted by Sherlock Holmes, I am searching for the toilet in the middle of the night and end up pushing around this outhouse like structure that is on one of those wheeled carts called "dollies". I am pushing this dumb thing around trying to find a place to park it in order to go potty.

Is that the dummest dream or what!? I laugh evertime I think about it.

:-))

Joy-

DreamCamp participants are definitely ab-normal. Very weird and strange people. I count my self as doubly weird since i attend them sometimes twice in a year. Sounds like you're a potential ab-normal person too!

Seriously, the groups are special in their interests, but statistically their personality profiles are likely (ask Stephen) reflective of the population at large. Personality profiling is done at some of the camps.

More importantly, the phenomenology if Lucid Dreaming is unlikely to vary from the population at large unless the phenomena discussed is based more on belief systems or the metaphysics of the state. Much of the "techniques" for LDing - RCs, spinning etc are assumed to be based on the neurophysiology of lucidity. If the phenomenology of lucid dreaming has roots in neurophysiological components, than techniques and experiences should be pretty much standard across the population regardless of experiential interest.

--Dominick

Hi, Dominick -

Yes, I'm heading to Kalani in 10 days to increase my abnormality profile. I always have the most fun among people who don't make any pretense of normalcy!

Somewhere in another old thread in this forum there is a discussion of the results of the personality profiling. Keelin reported on it in response to someone's questions - she said that unsurprisingly, it was skewed toward the introspective; I don't remember what else differed from the population at large.

But I'd like to know what else, besides personality, has been or should be tested. Doesn't neurophysiology vary widely across the population, and might not certain neurological makeups be most conducive to lucid dreaming? Of course to participate in a dream camp one has only to be interested, not necessarily adept - but it seems possible that both interest and aptitude could be rooted or reflected in one's individual neurology. What about so-called intelligence? Just from reading this forum I bet people who hang out here would average higher than the general population on IQ tests; probably same for dream camp, even if you controlled for socioeconomic factors.

Maybe Stephen or Keelin will show up here and say something....

Benignly weird,

Joy

Here, I found it using keyword search on "personality profile." Keelin posted this under "Post Your Lucid Dreams: Dreams of Transcendence" on February 28 2001:

Thank you for the referral to the Keirsey personality profile. That's the very same one LI asks all of their participants to fill out during the Dreaming & Awakening (aka: Dream camp) workshops -- and it's always interesting to see what type of folks are attracted to the program.

Stephen tells me that the findings of those workshops are consistent with the results found during a 1995 survey of Lucidity Institute membership, in which 157 dreamers sent in their profiles. The results of the survey were published in the Winter 1995 issue of NightLight. The following quote is from the article titled "Temperament and Lucid Dreaming" by Leslie Phillips (Bevington):

. "The most notable findings of this study are, as expected, related to Introversion and Intuition dimensions of temperament. Approximately twice as many Lucidity Institute subjects are introverts in proportion to the general population. There are approximately three times as many intuitive Lucidity Institute subjects as intuitives in the general population. The fact that Lucidity Institute subjects in this study showed significantly greater proportions of intuitives and introverts than the general US population is probably related to the fact that intuitives and introverts are more likely to he drawm to self-exploration and experiences of inner awareness such as those to be found in dreams and lucid dreams. . The only significant differences in type in regard to lucid dreaming ability were that NFs had slightly more lucid dreams and had more confidence in their lucid dreaming ability than SJs. INPs were also the most likely to experience fantasy absorption, and NTs were almost twice as likely to have a WILD than NFs. Ps experienced a greater incidence of sleep paralysis than Js."

Another ENFP, Keelin

Okay, now, is this weird or what? A few minutes after I posted yesterday, "Maybe Stephen or Keelin will show up here and say something," the phone rang and I had the totally non-rational thought that it was Stephen or Keelin calling to answer our question! I thought "Wouldn't that be funny?" as I answered the phone: "Hello?"

"Have I reached Joy?"

"Yes..."

"Are you dreaming?"

"I must be!"

I laughed and jumped up to see if I'd go bobbing up to the ceiling like a helium balloon, and told Keelin I was doing so. She identified herself after a couple minutes of this but of course she didn't need to, although I'd never heard her voice before in my life. She'd called about a logistical detail regarding dream camp.

I think ordinary people all the time have these little everyday "psi" experiences which we commonly tend to laugh off, to ourselves and others, as odd little coincidences - even though we have the definite feeling of having picked up a bit of information without using any of our five known physical senses - because anything non-rational is stigmatized as irrational in our society. A friend and I often discuss this sort of thing and our code phrase for this kind of denial is "I-knew-it-was-you-when-the-phone-rang-ha-ha." Well, so you would think that I of all people would have had the guts to tell Keelin of all people that I really did know it was her when the phone rang, but no! I totally chickened out and just told her that her voice sounded exactly like I expected, which it did. Let's see how long it takes for her to read it here!

Admittedly weird,

Joy

Hi Joy!

"...odd little coincidences" (at least for this dreamer) are the icing on the cake of Life. And oddly enough, I'd made a note to call you the day before we actually spoke. Who is it who once said "timing is everything"?

And if you think this little episode was funny, just wait till you get to DreamCamp! ;)

Aloha to all, Keelin

Hi there. Thought I would share my lucid fest of the night before last. I write about it here because this is where I started talking about trying to get to Sherlock Holmes' sitting room. Well, still ain't there but I was lucid at least 5 times during the last part of the sleep cycle. I had a short period of wakefulness in the middle of the night and this might have contributed to it. At any rate, I was lucid every time I got to sleep. There did not seem to be any lapse of time, like I magically did the WILD thing. I remember looking out the window and noticing a vivid landscape with a beautiful sunset and knowing it wasn't real. The weird thing is just as I said that and said "I am dreaming" the dreams became flat and less real feeling as if I were just daydreaming. I also tried many times to make the sittingroom building appear outside and walk in. One time I did get a building; a small structure with cubbard-like doors that I couldn't get into. It was surrounded by a HUGE pile of stuffed toys that were alive and they kept trying to talk to me. I tried to ignore them and don't recall what they said. Wierd!! Oh, well, at least I remembered and I tried! I still think I might have not been fully in REM, just in like a hypnogogic state. Everything was sluggish. Could be I was mentally tired and just need time to get creative again.

:-))

Dear Barbara

Congratulations! And welcome to the club of "flat - once - lucid dreamers". For me it is the same these weeks.

But keep on!

Ralf

I got my new Novadreamer yesterday, read through the manual, and tried it out last night. I had a very hard time getting to sleep, being so full of anticipation, like Christmas eve... eventually I got to sleep, and around 3:30am had the following dream:

"...now I'm at the University, walking around the campus, near some bushes and a path with my wife Christine. We get in front of some particular bushes when all of a sudden they start crackling and popping like orange fireworks. The color and noise is intense. I say, "ah, that must be the Novadreamer". I'm now lucid, but the dream fades almost immediately."

I wasnt expecting the ND cue to be that obvious. I was expecting much more subtle things, like car headlights, candles, etc... Those sparkling bushes jumped right out at me. I'm looking forward to tonight.

Richard deCosta, Composer http://rdecosta.hopto.org

Thats great news Richard! Don't worry, you will get used to sleeping with the device.

The cues might not always be that evident, I once had a dream while wearing my device where a squad of cheerleaders entered my studio. The "funny" thing was that I could not get over how white all their legs looked... almost like lights! ;)

Hi Richard,

Thanks for sharing the report of your first night with the NovaDreamer -- and congratulations on your excellent success in catching the true meaning of those SPARKLING bushes. ;)

The incorporation of the cue as you describe it reminds me of a waking life episode in which I once saw a thick, leafless bush transform into a brilliantly lit chandelier. The illusion was due to the sun suddenly breaking through dark clouds after an ice storm which had left each slender branch encased in a sheath of ice. The effect was so mesmerizing I stopped in my tracks to appreciate the splendor of it, while at the same time, I wondered if it might be a cue from my NovaDreamer. A reality check convinced me I wasn't dreaming at that moment, but I also realized how the training for becoming adept at using the ND (the daytime practice to become aware of light sources) was nurturing lucidity in my waking life as well.

Wishing you bountiful, brilliant dreams! Keelin

Could be beginner's luck- last night and the night before I missed at least 9 cues, according to the ND. Although in one dream I was talking to a guy in my studio about how the ND had made all the lights on my mixing board all light up. It hadnt done that, but I dreamed that I told someone it did. Hmm. Are the cues sometimes that subtle?

I think I'll up the intensity tonight.

Richard

Hi Richard,

Indeed, the NovaDreamer cues can be subtle, which is why training is so essential. In fact, it's a good idea to do a reality check anytime you find yourself talking about it, showing someone how it works, or even just thinking about it... kind of like now... come to think of it.

[**], Keelin

Ok, so I'm new to the Nova Dreamer (just used it last night for the first time). I had an incredibly difficult time falling asleep, not that it was uncomfortable, but probably because I was too anxious to fall asleep. Anyway, I had success on the first night which is great, but it was definitely one of the strangest LDs I've ever had; wasn't quite sure what was a dream and what wasn't. Which brings me to my question: Has anyone experienced or heard of the ND causing or contributing to sleep paralysis? Thanks!

Hi, Brian

I didn't hear something regarding your question. But once you play with sleeping body and waking consciousness you might increase chances of experiencing sleep paralysis. As you might know, there is nothing actually serious about SP. Some people use it to discover the world of LD.

Congratulations for your successful night, anyway.

Ralf

Hi Brian,

Congratulations on your first-night success with the NovaDreamer!

Regarding your question about sleep paralysis: The ND does not cause or contribute to sleep paralysis. This temporary paralysis is the natural state in which your body needs to be in order to keep from acting out your dreams. What you may be experiencing, however, is more awareness of this state as you drift into or out of dreaming. You can learn to use the recognition of sleep paralysis as a lead in to WILD (Wake Initiated lucid Dreams), which can be most fascinating experiences.

Bright dreams to you! Keelin

Keelin and all -

Per request, some of the appearances of the Nova Dreamer in my dream journal...

If you want to see the context, just check for the dates at www.livejournal.com/users/oakenking

I often am lucid already when I notice the lights; they are usually pretty transparent, and just appear to be flashing in the overall lighting of the room (like when you look at the mask through closed eyes).

10/16/02 The California Tea Garden ...I am about 15 - 20 feet off the ground. I notice that it's becoming a little warm as I fly along, from the sunlight hitting me. I think to myself that this is Southern California, and what I was more in the mood for was the cool breezes and fog of Northern California. I close my eyes as I'm swimming and say to myself, "Northern California, Northern California," but when I open my eyes, I'm still in the same place with the same warm air. Suddenly, the Nova Dreamer lights flash in my eyes, and I am temporarily blinded. I am in a very dark space, it seems like the dream imagery is fading, but I decide that if I just maintain my swimming motion, and concentrate on the feel of my dream body moving, I will stay lucid and stay dreaming. It works; when I regain visual contact to the dream, I'm still flying over city streets, although now it looks like I'm closer to the edge of town.

9/27/02 Tasting the Soda Straw ...Like a bar stool or a child's high chair, but about 15 feet or so up in the air. I have a cut on the second toe of my right foot; when I look at it, there is a little bright spot of red blood (ND Lights?) I look away and then back, and there are 2 spots now, one on the third toe as well.

10/2/02 - The Wrong Heart Pill ...He talks for a little while, then he says that you need a 3 to five second "shine" at the end - he demonstrates this by babbling incoherently, as if he were trying to soothe a cranky baby. Ba-ba goo-goo type stuff, but in a conciliatory tone. As he's explaining this, the screen shows a trail of flashing green and orange lights that remind me of rope lights (ND lights). [then, later in the same dream]I fly up into the air a little bit, but I don't have any place I want to go, so I just settle back down. I decide to go into the house, and explore around. I land on the second story entry, and go in through the glass doors. I walk from room to room, looking at the furniture and trying to get deeper into the dream state. The ND lights flash again, and I just let them pass, acknowledging them, but not letting them bother me.

9/25/02 Grandmother's Hallway ...I turn, and walk back into the hallway. As I get to where the bathroom is, the Nova Dreamer lights flash brightly in my eyes. I say aloud to myself, "See, I TOLD you I was lucid! I knew it!" The lights seem very bright, and when they fade, I am looking into the bathroom which seems very dark. My dream awareness fades, and I find myself lying in bed awake.

9/16/02 Cindy's Camcorder ...She comes into the room where I am, and she's holding a thing that looks at first like a microphone or a headset, but as she unfolds parts of it, it is obvious it is a camcorder. She asks if I think it's OK for her to borrow it; she has her own monitor. I tell her it's not mine, it belongs to one of the other guys. She points it at me, and turns it on. I tell her not to. It has a red flashing light on the front, and it blinds my eyes. I tell her to cut it out. It keeps flashing. I say, "Cut it out, you're going to give me a seizure!" but it keeps flashing. I suddenly realize, that was the Nova Dreamer's lights. With this realization, it seems like I can feel my body in the bed, but I realize that it is my dream body. I start to spin

9/9/02 Aunt Ruth's Town House Grandmother is changing light bulbs. She is walking around with a plastic shoebox full of bulbs, and I ask her if she needs help with them. She says I can help if I like, but she keeps on going. She gets up on a little chair and takes a funny-looking battery out of a fire alarm; it looks like a CopperTop, but is shaped with a thick end and a thick end, almost like a spark plug. She has a little machine in the shoebox of bulbs, and she drops the battery into the machine, and picks up a wire attached to the machine and touches the top of the battery. I think at first that she's charging it, but then I realize that she's testing it. As she touches the wire to it, it makes a light on the machine flash several times (Nova Dreamer Lights!).

There are some more, but mostly in the vein of "the lights flashed in my eyes and momentarily blinded me."

Michael

Michael, thanks for posting your cue incorporations. Very helpful and entertaining.

The Lucidity Institute Forum: Induction Devices: The NovaDreamer: The NovaDreamer Review

By Franz Peter (Fpeter) (217.4.4.12) on Friday, October 25, 2002 - 09:44 pm:

Hello,

I have been using the novadreamer for at least 4 months now very frequently. Although I adjusted it perfectly, I still find the device lying right beside me the next morning. I seem to be lucky that it hasn't been damaged so far. I would appreciate any comments or help.

Yours Franz

Hallo, Franz!

Willkommen im Lucidity Forum! Und viel Erfolg mit dem NovaDreamer. Gehst du im November nach Kalani? Es sind ja zwei oder drei Deutsche dabei, ich habe erst einen hier im Forum gesehen. Es scheint, dass die deutsche LI "Gemeinde" wächst mit der Zeit, sehr schön.

And now to your question on loosing the mask. Although you don't give much details, but I'll try my best to give advice:

1.Try to fasten the ribbon, if that is not too inconvenient. 2.Only put on the mask in the early morning hours, or set a delay, that allows cues only in the early morning. 3. Sleep with the mask in "off" mode to get used to the feeling of pressure etc.

See my latest posting in "NovaDreamer cues", there may be some information applicable for this question, too.

Don't fear too much, the electronic board is very stable.

Immer am Ball bleiben und etwas Geduld ist hier angesagt. Es wird alles leichter mit Übung.

Mehr Licht!

Dein Ralf

P.S.

I posted this here, because the place seemed to be more appropriate.

An interesting night of clue-less cluefulness!

I had a funny experience this morning - I woke naturally in the middle of the night, and decided it would be a good time to put the Nova Dreamer on and try for some lucidity.

I didn't wake up very much, just enough to get up and go to the bathroom, then back to bed. I had a complicated and bizarre dream... and the Nova Dreamer lights kept going off, and they looked just like they usually do through closed eyes (localized flashes of red light in front of my face) and I kept telling myself, "It's just the Nova Dreamer. Why do I have it on? I'm not sleeping." It was like one part of my mind kept pitching the lucidity clues, and another part kept missing them! I even spent some time in the dream talking to someone else about dreaming... and failed to catch the DREAM sign. I think maybe I need one of those "Here's Your Sign" type signs...

The dream: 20021027, 7:00 AM: The Billy Graham Meeting

It seems like there was more to the beginning of this dream than I remember. The part that I remember starts with Chris taking me to a religious revival type party at someone's house; I think of it as being associated with Billy Graham. There are all kinds of people here, both older and younger. It's a nice suburban house, with a fairly open floor plan. The furniture has been rearranged to allow the meeting to make use of all the space possible. I sit on the floor next to Chris, and find that I'm leaning up against the knees of a guy who's sitting behind me. It feels comfortable, though, and everyone seems to be in a casual mood so I don't move. There is a man giving a presentation, and it seems like the room is darkened; he has bars of light beneath his eyes, and I know that it is becasue he is wearing special glasses that allow him to see the projection screen on the lenses. I go into the other room to get something, perhaps a drink, and then walk back and sit back down. This time, I find an empty spot on the couch, because someone has vacated it. I sit down, and make myself comfortable with the pillows, etc., and then the person comes back, but it's OK because she just sits beside me. The Nova Dreamer lights flash, and I think to myself that it's kind of annoying, and I don't know why I have it turned on now, because I'm not dreaming or asleep. They flash several more times throughout this dream, and each time they are quite clearly themselves, not incorporated into any sort of dream illumination. It seems like I am doing my best not to recognize the fact that I am dreaming.

We go outside, and there is someone here teaching us how to plant seeds. The whole back yard has furrowed rows, and on the top of each set of rows are these prostrate juniper bushes. They are pale blue-green, and seem scraggly to me. The guy is explaining that they just moved the fountain out of here, so that they could do this garden. He has a young boy teach us how to plant the seeds; the boy takes a knitting needle and draws a straight line in the earth, then puts the seeds in it with his fingers and pushes it closed. The man has Chris repeat the same thing, and Chris digs the furrow wrong somehow, too deep or too narrow, and the man says that Chris's seeds won't sprout that way.

Then, back inside, we're listening as a guy explains that someone dreamed he had eaten his bagel, but look, the bagel is still here - I asked if the bagel has as much spirit as before, or if the spirit has been eaten out of it. The man seems a little disturbed, as if I'm asking a question that I shouldn't, and it will undermine his message. I think he was trying to prove the insubstantial nature of dreams, and I brought that into question.

Then, we're talking about a special kind of photography that can measure the changes made by dreaming. In the image in my mind, it looks almost like a heat-sensitive camera, showing areas where stuff has been altered by someone in the dream state.

++++++ Michael

Hi to all,

I would like to discuss the "sense" of devices like the Nova Dreamer. For I never used such a device, I hardly know about the advantages and disadvatages.. But I think there is no doubt that ND increases your LD-rate, and helps you to improve your skill.

But is there a negative side as well (like every medal has another side)?

I'm regarding the Novadreamer as a little odd: Wearing a machine that flashes the sleeper during night, observes (and detects) my REM status usw.. Personnally, I couldn't imagine wearing such a device.

I usually like things better if they are natural, independent, induced by myself.

What happens if you use the ND for a long period of time, and then you stop with it... Would you be able to keep your LD frequency? Doesn't it desturb your normal, healthy sleep?

Of course this sounds terrific: "For example, NovaDreamer users have reported: "I see a beautiful pattern of gold and yellow diamonds that fills my field of vision...,' and "I'm surrounded by the popping of flash bulbs with afterimages of orange circles...,' and "I see a flash of light and press the button. No flash. I think, "This is great; I must be dreaming!'' "

....Or is it: "Buy me, dreaming lucid is an exceptional experience which you will surely love so much and you will need me for this.. I'm a bit expensive but absolutely worth the money ... ....and if you're not dreaming lucid it's your fault"

What is your opinion? Why are you using the Nova Dreamer? Is it means to an end - an expedient or lasting support - "a teacher"? Curious about your way of thinking!

Enjoy your week,

Natalie

Natalie,

I know that different people have different ways of doing things - I had heard about the Nova Dreamer, and was very skeptical. Of course the information on the Lucidity Institute's site is very positive - it's their product after all! However, I saw a lot of posts on other email lists from people who didn't have good results, or had no results at all.

Still, I decided I wanted one. My partner gave it to me for a birthday present, and it's worked great for me. It helped me greatly increase my rate of lucid dreams - I had been getting about one per month, and now I can get four or five per week on good weeks. I've noticed that I am also dreaming lucidly without the device now - I think that being more aware of the special state of lucid dreaming has made a difference.

I think of it as a helpful tool, but one that isn't necessary. It's like a food processor - does the work a lot faster, but you can get the same effect using a knife, eventually. One lucid dreamer that I've corresponded with has had his mask for a long time, and says he uses it when he's having a "slump" - when his frequency drops off, and he wants to revive it. I haven't had mine long enough to tell you what would happen if I used it and then stopped.

I don't find it disturbs my regular sleeping, but I don't wear it all night long. I usually wake two to four times in the night to log my dreams, and I just put it on after my last night-awakening. If I wear it all night long, it makes my face sweat, and it seems like I just get the cues incorporated into my dreams as various flashing lights.

Hope that helps - Michael

Hey all, I've been using my ND for a while now. Has anyone else had a headache in the morning, after using it? It has happened to me a couple times, and is pretty annoying. Any advice on how to lessen the problem? Thanks Matt

Matthew, When I first started using the ND it kept sliding off at night, so I tightened it too tight and it gave me a headache. Here's what I did: I adjust the strap so its not too tight, but not too loose, then slide it all the way over my head. Then I slide it up my head pushing my hair up. When it gets in place, my nose keeps it from sliding down, and my hair hangs over the top and keeps it from sliding up. Stays on, but its not so tight it gives me a headache. My hair looks like beaker, from the muppet show, in the morning, but it works. Don't know if that will work for you...if you don't have much hair, maybe you could fashion a chinstrap. Hehe.

Wilson

Gordon, Haha, Thanks a lot for the help, and a little bit of comic relief. If you check out my profile, you'll see my picture(and the amount of hair on my head). I used to have a lot more hair, and my hair nowadays is pretty shoryt, but I still think that could work. Thanks once again, Matt

Hi Keelin,

Here is the promised update of my ND experiences. The sorry fact of the matter is, though, that I've stopped using the ND it, because it interferes too much with my sleeping habits. I've found out how pleasurable it is to go to sleep without the ND strapped to my head. I also find it impossible to lie on the side, because when I do, part of the board is buried in the pillow, the mask presses against my nose etc.etc. On the other hand, since I do own the device, I'm sure I will go on using it off and on, but not too often. By the way, I've also washed it, on your advice, and now it smells of hair shampoo, still a minor nuisance that interferes with my sleeping comfort. Thanks again for the other recent advice.

Pleasant dreams to the masterdreamer, Peter

Hi all,

This is my first time posting to the forum. I just got my NovaDreamer yesterday. Last night I had it set to the medium sleeper setting and the flashes took the form of flashes from people taking photographs in my dream, but that woke me up, because it flashed for too long. I then set it to the light dreamer setting, and didn't really recognize any strong cues. I decided to take a nap in the afternoon around 2:00 using my own setting of the same light intensity as the medium setting, but only having it flash 6 times. It worked well, although I didn't have a Lucid Dream:

I was sleeping on my couch and the ND lights flashed, but I felt I was awake. I took off the mask and saw an old friend of mine. I wasn't sure what he was doing there. I saw that my door was still locked and went over to look, and as I suspected, he had broken through my window. I got upset and said 'Are you gonna' pay for that?!?' I sat down on my couch, upset, when the ND lights start going off again in my eyes. I thought 'Didn't I already turn you off?' I took off the mask again. My friend was no longer there. I thought I had had a lucid dream, and missed the cue. I walk to my bedroom to put the mask away. I then wake up (for real this time)back on my couch and realize that I had just missed 2 cues from the ND in one dream. I press the Reality Test button just to make sure, and sure enough it lights. I'm awake. DOH!

I was quite encouraged to see the light cues making there way into my dreams. Hopefully it will only be a matter of time before I start to remember to do the reality checks (in my dream!).

Looking forward to my first LD,

Matt

Hi Matthew,

What fun to trip the light fantastic, eh? A splendid start! A little daytime practice and I expect we'll be hearing some wondrous lucid dream reports from you soon. Just remember to press that RTB every time you think you've awoken. You'll turn that DOH! into an AHA! in no time.

Dazzling dreams to all, Keelin

Hi there, I'm a newbie to this and bought the ND 3 days ago. First night I got the red light cues but didn't realise what they were and didn't act on them. Second night I took it off because it was uncomfortable ( too tight)

Last night......WOW!!! oh my god! Got the cue and "woke up", pressed the reality button and ...nothing, ok, stay calm and get up, pressed reality button.....nothing, my god, I'm dreaming, a false awakening that would have been unnoticed if not for the ND.

Went downstairs remembering to stay as calm as poss so as not to wake up and FLEW over a large thatched roofed cottage and even looked down the chimney!, all the feelings, emotions and colours were almost overwhelming.

If anyone is unsure about the ND and worried about the comfort probs, don't, as the experience of the Lucid dream blew those feelings out of the water.

Good luck.

Excellent, Russ! And congratulations! Isn't that little button remarkable? Why not give it a little press right now while you think you're really awake.... ;)

Just curious: do you recall how the light appeared when it initiated the false awakening? It always interests me to hear how it incorporates into the dream.

BTW, good work on remaining calm. Not so easy to do in the beginning stages.

Dazzling dreams to all! Keelin

There were just red flashing lights in front of my eyes, no form in particular, I just remembered the lights in the mask, may be lucky I guess. The mask has slipped off two nights running now but I won't give up because the feeling when you realise blows away ANY negatives. So for those out there who haven't experienced the magic yet, keep with it, trust me. I got my mask on the 60 day trial but it ain't going back!! My lady friend is trying it tonight so we can share the amazement. Keep pressing that button!!!!

Hi dreamers out there! I have a nova dreamer question. It seems like when I first started wearing the novas to bed.At first I would wear them all night with no delay up to five nights set on {MED SLEEP}.. Then I would go a week not wearing them to bed to catch up on my sleep. That first five nights I used them I experianced all kinds of weird things like many false awakenings and one short lucid dream in a black void where I was talking to a deceased child who was in a large dream tv I faced her and we had a short but reasuring exchange of words..I think that experiance came from a {wild} in between ND wakeing and returning to sleep. I continued to use the novas that same way {every other week.} Only now I was using the delay for two or three hours a night. I continued to have more false awakenings and some night mares and dreams with amazing vividness!!I gradualy slowed down on my heavy use of the nova dreamers and would go two weeks or longer just practicing dream recal figuring that I have not figured out the proper settings for the divice yet. I now use them once and a while and Im still not sure of the settings! Now set on {medium sleep} It seems that they wake me too often. BUT!! when you set the device for 3 and one half hours delay and you only sleep five and a half hours a night that gives the ND only 2 hours to scan for REM and signal me.. Now when I use the device that two hours produces 12 to 14 Ques per night set on sensitivity no 7.. I never remember more than 4 ques waking me. That leaves 10 or more Ques I never notice.. How can I consider this setting be wakeing me up when I dont notice most of IT??? Should I go to a stronger setting ?? any opinions?

I think it may also be up to your personal training of noticing the "signs" within your dream, you may have been aware of all of them but they were probably disguised in a variety of signs like jewels, lamps or sunlight. I've had 3 lucid dreams within 3 weeks (2 in the last 2 days) and two of them were within a false awakening and one without the mask altogether because I did a "reality test" and, of course wasn't wearing the mask, therefore, no lights and I became lucid. Don't worry about wearing the mask too much as you can get into the habit of doing reality tests during waking which will naturally follow into sleep.

I'm really pleased I purchased my mask and am now going to try to get into the habit of not wearing it in the first half of the night but waking and setting the delay in the second half as that's when more REM sleep happens. That way I can get more sleep AND experience the thrill of lucidity.

I have my mask set on MED sleep (on mine that is 12 med/bright red flashes with no sound) Keep experimenting on your settings but i also feel the settings that work on you also depend on your state of mind and also how you interpret the dream signs.

I'm not sure about the nightmares as I'm not a psychologist but may have something to do with waking fears or worries.

Good luck and I hope this helps a little as I'm not that experienced but am amazed at how fast things are developing for me.

Sweet dreams

Hey Russ thanks for your input.I guess the point I was trying to make was I dont sleep usualy more than five and a half to six hours a night. If I set the [ND] for three and a half hours delay that only leaves two and a half hours for the nova to scan for REM.. I usualy get 12 to 14 [Ques] set at sensitivity 7 in that short a time..I never remember more than 4 [Ques] wakeing me up!NEVER!! Which means there are 8 or ten [Ques] I never notice!!!! And I used to look at this wakeing me up 4 times at night and think to myself [MED] sleep setting is too strong! BUT! NOW I look at the the much greater numbers of [Ques] I NEVER NOTICE and I wonder If the asumption was wrong and more light intensity and duration is needed and what I thought was too strong was too weak????I have never tryed heavy sleep mode yet but I may try it..Russ Is your [ND] working well for you? I know there are other ways to become lucid but for me its always good to have a ND for dry spells..If one wears one every night none stop [in my experiance] it will force you into a lucid episode sooner or later usualy through a {WILD}.. I used to wear the NDs 5 straight nights no delay..Then I would go the next 5 nights not wearing them and I wonder If this practice is simular to the {CAT METHOD?} In the way it works on the mind that is.. Any way I noticed your from ROBINHOOD country. I am in colorado usa I was in nottingham 6 or 7 years ago I first came across the north sea on a ferry from amsterdam. took a train to london and bought a little car and drove north through many little english towns including Nottingham town one of my childhood fantasys was Robinhood. And I found most northern Brits believe that the man existed but to a lesser degree around london..Oh well its getting late.. Thanks for the chat..Tom

I've had the ND about two weeks now. I have around 20 cues a night, set on Medium, and usually sleep through the night. I write my dreams down in the morning, or throughout the night - between 1 and 6 dreams. None of my dreams have any bright lights in them and I do reality testing every day each time I see a bright light - sunshine, headlights, computer monitor etc. I have not had one lucid dream yet though. Is is just a matter of time? Should I just stick with it and something will happen? Or is there any suggestions anyone can make that will increase my chances...

Hi Don,

When using the NovaDreamer, it may take awhile to figure out the most effective personal settings. If you're not seeing any cue incorporations in your dreams, I'd suggest trying either a brighter intensity or longer cue length (you'll want to be using Mode One). Continue with the training to recognize light changes and just keep tweaking the settings till you find a combination that works well for you on a regular basis.

Wishing you brilliant Qs in your Zs! Keelin

Don,

Don't forget to hit the Reality Test button EVERY SINGLE TIME you wake up. And, of course, if you find yourself wearing the ND while at work.

: )

Thanks for your responses. I wake up often to write down my dreams throughout the night but fail to press the Reality Test button so I'll remember to do that. One dream last night, I'm sure I wrote down a dream, and did, IN my dream, but didn't realize it until later in the night and woke up and wrote it down. I'm sure if I pressed the Reality Test button at that time of thinking I was writing down the dream it would have launched me into a lucid dream!

Furthermore, last night three of my dreams contained bright light phenomenon of some sort upon review in the morning. One was when I asked a grocery clerk the price of an item and he flashed red lights in my eyes several times. I realized I was seeing the ND and became lucid but in the excitement of it all lost lucidity but it was progress nevertheless.

I will keep trying...

I tried the NovaDreamer for the first time last night and had my longest (and strangest) lucid dream to date. I've only managed a meagre 3 lucid dreams using the usual techniques in the last 6 months so a result like this on the first attempt is very exiting. I noticed a few cues in the first half of the night and remember thinking "Ah, that must be the NovaDreamer, why is it cueing me while I'm awake?" (on reflection, I was clearly dreaming at the time). Once I realised I had not been using the reality test button things quickly got much more interesting! I managed to maintain lucidity for what seemed like a very long time (an hour or more)- using the button once more within the dream. Just before I woke I remember gazing into a mirror, curious about how real my dream reflection would appear. It looked very real, but there appeared to be a kind of "motion lag" in the reflection. If I pulled a face, my dream reflection would take a moment or two to react before pulling the same face. I found this highly amusing and woke up laughing.

I felt sleepy in the middle of the day, so I decided to try my ND on for size. I didn't press the button to prolong the time till the ND went off--you know the button you use for reality tests and to give yourself time to fall asleep before the ND starts beeping--well, anyway, I noticed that the ND beeps even as I'm falling asleep and getting those pre-dream hallucinations. It's almost like the ND is registering any dreamlike activity even in my brain. I didn't think people experience REM movements during pre-dream hallucinations. For those who don't know me, I have been totally blind from birth, so the light-sleeper light cues only wouldn't work for me. I just find it fascinating that the nova dreamer picked up my pre-dream hallucinatory state. I'd be interested in your thoughts, Keelin. Thea