Hi Mark!

Here are my votes for the suggested NovaDreamer improvements:

1. YES! Definitely.

2. Oh, I could just hear the comments if the ND came with a chin strap" Isn't it enough that I hear "G'night, Kemosabi." on a regular basis? If you DO go with the strap, I trust you'll make it optional! [*]->)

3. That would be dandy.

4. How would the EOG pads function as compared to the sensor used in the current model?

Hi, all.

What kind of improvements would you like to see to the NovaDreamer? Here are some of my thoughts.

1. Battery level indicator that turns red when the batteries are low.

2. Chin strap to prevent NovaDreamer from falling or being taken off.

3. LCD (Liquid Crystal Display) to make setting the NovaDreamer easier.

4. EOG (ElectroOculoGram) pads to detect eye movements during dreaming.

Any other ideas?

Mark

Hi Mark. Your ideas are well founded. Sounds like you want a DreamLight. I'm currently developing a peripheral device for the NovaDreamer/DreamLight called LISA (Lucidity Induction System for Audio), and in the process I've learned much about the Nova. Great little unit... I have one myself. I've spoken directly with the guy who programmed its logic, Jerry Durand. Nice guy. Basically the processor on the Nova is quite small, and thus the functionality is limited to being "lean and mean". According to Jerry it was quite an undertaking to pack even this much programmability into such a small EPROM chip. Hats off to his clever coding! So I doubt your suggestions could physically be implemented within the given hardware. Perhaps a "new and improved" Nova may be in the future for L.I., but until then you might consider some Velcro and at least tackling the chin-strap issue. Take care, dream well, and play nice. Respectfully, Brian James - Lucidware

Hi everyone,

How about incapsulating the circuit board in some sort of plastic box to prevent from damage.

This however leads to the need to alter the mask so it can hold a larger item.

H'kan Andersson SWEDEN

Hi!

My chief recommendation is to second the motion that a battery level indicator be added. However, I wonder if this could somehow be added to the SuperNovaDreamer software. If so, then a visual icon showing the percentage of power left in the batteries could be shown. My PalmPilot software has such an icon (which unfortunately shows that I need to replace the batteries about every two weeks!!).

As far as I understand the NovaDreamer manual, as it currently stands, one has to infer the level of the batteries by how many cues are delivered in a night. Unfortunately, this measure of battery level is confounded with REM cycles, since cues are supposedly contingent on REM. Thus, if you find that not many cues were tallied in the night, you must decide whether this is due to the ND's lack of sensitivity because of low batteries, or due to sleep cycles without much REM. If you mistakenly infer the former, when the problem is the latter, you may end up increasing the ND's sensitivity to a higher level than it needs to be.

Indeed, if the ND's sensitivity level could automatically be adjusted according to the battery level, that would be very nice. Again, I am guessing that much of this could be accomplished through the SuperNovaDreamer software. If so, this might be much more cost effective than trying to do it through changing the hardware.

One reason I am concerned with these issues is that I am taking the collecting of REM data pretty seriously, and trying to collect a good set of data on my REM cycles. Unfortunately, as a researcher, I bothered by the fact that the reliability of the data I collect is challenged by the nagging question of battery levels.

Best regards,

Les

Hi all, I like to be free to sleep on my front so I'd like the Novadreamer better if the circuit board and batteries could be placed on the bedside table and just have the sensors inside the mask, making it slimmer and more comfortable.

Best Wishes,

Mark.

Stardate 6-20-2000

Hi gang ! I was perusing the suggestions for new 'n improved Nova Dreamers. Mark's suggestions about LCD displays and EOGs really topped the lucid cake, however. :) I hear ya, bro ! Here's my suggestion, which may sound totally farout at first. Well, no, let me reiterate that; don't think any ideas could ever be greeted with hostility by our crowd. We're in Buddhic-mode, I'm sure. A little background about my experiences with the N/D. Frequently I see the flashing "red" lights as NOT red, but as a multiplicity of color manifestations. I've seen GOLD, BLUE, WHITE, GREEN, and even PLUM. Problem is that my dreaming mind doesn't always clue that, hey, it's the N/D flashing ! Many times I just perceive the color(if it's not red) as a pleasant experience, although not always. Kinda hit or miss. What I think is going on is that, although I consciously allow the Nova Dreamer carte blanche to mix up the colors and, in fact, consciously "want" that to even happen to add to the fun factor, subconsciously it's a different story. My subconscious database is probably stubbornly programmed with a literal affirmation -- flashing RED light, Raj is dreaming. Maybe some of you guys experience something along the same lines. Here's my suggestion to Steve LaBerge, Frank, and all those nice folks at the lab that have been so pleasant and helpful to me over the years: Why not design and construct an LED (or LCD) panel that HAS multiple colors. My suggestions are for 6 -- BLUE, RED, WHITE, GREEN, PURPLE, YELLOW. Does this sound doable?? Your feedback or dialogue if you so desire. Anyone?? . . . Keelin?? :) :) :)

Love & Light, Roger ( Raj )

How did you condition yourself that red lights means dreaming? I could never get that done, so could never have a lucid with the ND.

Oh, while I am here, how does this sound for a suggestion: Having the Dreamspeaker and PEST embedded in the mask? For the voice cues and vibrational cues. Easier than having to connect it to something.

I think I actually saw some where a lucid dreaming device similiar to the ND that has voice capability as well[but not vibration]. Seemed a bit more advanced than the ND. If it had Super ND capability as well it would be better than the Dream Light. And everything is built inside the mask.[now I have to look for that device all over the internet ....]

Hi,

I think I came across the same device a while ago: the Dream Weaver?

I am new to this forum and to the subject, and I am trying to decide whether or not to get one of these devices. I read one post that said he broke his ND while rolling around in his sleep. I have to try really hard to sleep on my back...it just doesn't seem to work for me. I can stay up all night trying to fall asleep face up, then as soon as I turn over I can be out like a light. Anyone have an experience like that?

The most important improvement on the machine for me would definitely be to make it more indestructible. Again, I haven't seen it up close, but I've read that the circuit board is not encased?!?

Yes, that's the device I was talking about. Took a look and it seems like a modified ND. Price pretty high too[$399]. It does come with a rechargeable battery, light to tell you when battery is low, voice capability[including subliminals and light/sound brain wave inducement]. I guess I can understand why it is much more than the ND. Now, if The Lucidity Institute got a hold of such a device and modified it further to be used with a Supernova interface and to include everyone else's suggestions that would be nice[of course TLD would charge $500 or more for it but it would be top of the line].

The Dream Weaver doesn't seem to have any control over the brightness of the lights...ND does, right?

I really want a toy. Is there any indication that the ND will be updated any time soon? Should I hold off?

Dear Raj and Fellow Masked Dreamers,

If we're making a list of colors that have been seen as incorporations of the NovaDreamer cue (using the standard red LEDs), I'd like to add a certain distinguished "Turquoise" -- of a brilliance and intensity that could never be found in waking reality. In one particular dream, the entire scene was suddenly strobe-lit in that amazing and unforgettable hue. And let's not forget to include pumpkin orange! It might get a bit more complicated, however, when we try to define the multi-colors of flame and the light of fireflies. It's true, Raj, there is a definite fun factor involved in this...

Over the past few years, I've had the opportunity to actually try out both green and gold LEDs with the NovaDreamer. Perhaps not surprisingly, I did initially see green and gold incorporations, but I suspect this had a lot to do with my expectations, and after awhile, the usual variation in colors appeared. What remained constant, however, was the flashing aspect. So it may be that the way to increase the odds of recognizing the cue is to focus more on that element.

Tom, I'm not sure where you read that the NovaDreamer circuit board is not encased. It is actually neatly tucked between the outer mask fabric and the inside foam padding. And as for durability, I have used the mask in many different sleeping positions, and unless you plan to lie completely face down on your pillow, I believe you'll not encounter any problem. In my opinion, the NovaDreamer mask is far more comfortable (much less bulky and stiff) than that of the "Dream Weaver" .

For those that may be interested, there is an article at www.lucidity.com/NL71.KeelinNova.html describing some earlier nights of exploring with the NovaDreamer. Since then, the ND has gone through a few upgrades -- the most notable resulting in the SuperNovaDreamer. As for any future versions, you'll have to check directly with Lucidity Institute (1.800.GO.LUCID) for the latest forecast.

Wishing you all bright Qs in your Zs, Keelin

Joseph suggests: "Having the Dreamspeaker and PEST embedded in the mask? For the voice cues and vibrational cues. Easier than having to connect it to something. "

It might be easier, but it isn't better. The DreamSpeaker uses a pillow speaker because sounds transmitted via bone conduction are less likely to awaken the user (to say nothing of bed partner!) than a speaker in the mask. Ear phones have the same problem and are too uncomfortable for most people to sleep with.

As for vibrations in the mask, most vibrators make too much noise to be of much use in that position unless you want to induce dreams of Gigeresque alien face-suckers!

SLB

Correct, Tom, the DW doesn't seem to be able to adjust the brightness of its lights or much of anything else. In fact its lights are far too dim to work for all but the lightest sleepers. Needless to say, the same is not true of the NovaDreamer; it has a full range of adjustment from very dim to very bright.

I can assure you that you will be far better off with a NovaDreamer, or SuperNova. And don't worry about new versions of the ND; when they come out, we'll offer very reasonable upgrade prices to current owners.

+SLB

Thanks to everyone for all of your help. I think I'll be placing my order soon.

Hello all- good suggestions. I'm new to the forum and this is my first post, so I guess I should properly introduce my self

My name is Kris and I am pleased to make your acquaintances.

OK, now that that's taken care of" Chock up another vote for a battery life indicator. Yes, I would also like to see a battery indicator included on the next nova upgrade, but I think I might have found a temporary (and affordable) solution, until the next Nova is released. Check out www.kit-cat.com/batterytestor.htm

Personally I think the Nova rocks I wouldn't change a thing (accept for the addition of the battery life indicator of course). However I do think there is room for more accessories. I have been working on an idea for one that would allow you to run a tape player (or any device for that matter), which uses a wall outlet as its power source, for the duration of your dream. I came up with the idea when I noticed that songs coming from my radio alarm clock seemed to work their way into my dreams. I wanted to be able to choose the song I was listening to while I was dreaming. So I came up with this:

• The Nova would control a power outlet via a cue controlled on/off switch
• When the Nova sends a cue the switch would close allowing electricity to flow
• This would send power to the tape player (or other device) which would be plugged in to the new proposed accessory
• When the switch closed it would activate a timer which would open the switch after about five minutes and thirty seconds (this would allow the Nova enough time to send another cue and reset the timer if you were still dreaming. If you weren't still dreaming the timer would open the switch and cut power to the tape player (or other device))
• Ideally you would use a pillow speaker to hear the tape but headphones would work also

(a wireing diagram is supposed to go here, but I couldn't figure out how to put a picture into a message, so I put it in my user profile insted)

• This accessory would allow you to listen to an entire tape rather than just a 15-second message (which is what is currently available with the Dream Speaker).
• You could also run any other manual on/off type device (like a lamp) with this accessory. I don't know why you would want to do this but technically you could.
• The one drawback to this accessory is that it would be limited to manual on/off switch type devices. This is because the device would have to be turned on or set to play manually, before power is added, so that it will play or run when the Nova controlled switch is closed, giving power to the device. This means that it wouldn't work for CD, or mini disc players. I don't know if there would be enough demand to make development of this accessory practical, but I thought it was a good idea. Any input?

BRONS

Raj,

If I recall correctly, the reason red lights were incorporated was because that color light was seen by dreamers through their eyelids more reliably than other colors.

In any event, I would like to suggest another possibe aid in more consistently recognizing your NovaDreamer cues (one detailed in Unit 1-7 of the COURSE IN LUCID DREAMING that comes with the NovaDreamer): training yourself to look for ANY color light, in waking or dreaming, as a possible Dreamsign. Cultivating the daytime practice can be very helpful to one's LDing practice as this reflection regarding the meaning of light (possible Dreamsign???!) carries over as a habit to the dream state and greatly enhances our chances of recognizing cues.

More Light! Nibbana

I may be unusually uncoordinated, but I have trouble finding the reality test button. I have to feel around on the mask for the right lump under the fabric, since there are several nearby electronic components that feel remarkably like the button itself (especially at 4:30 in the morning). I think the button should actually protrude through the mask, with a little bulge on the end to prevent if from slipping back through the hole. This would be an almost zero-cost addition, and I think it would improve the usability of the device.

Peter

Hi Peter,

In the beginning, I had the same problem, so I attached an adheisive-backed, star on top of the mask to help me zero in on the button. I used the kind that glows in the dark to add some dimension. It wasn't long till I didn't need the raised target and it was easily removed. Some variation of this idea may work for you as well.

Sweet dreams, Keelin

I sewed on a small piece of velcro, the fuzzy part, right on top of the button. I was doing the same thing, and I worried about smashing the components! I still rely on that velcro!

Wow, I used the nova dreamer last night for the first time. The light was so bright it woke me up instantly and I had a hard time going back to sleep. I find it interesting that it is mentioned that dim lights are not effective for all but the lightest sleepers as I was in the military for a few years and I was capable of sleeping through bombs going off and shaking the ground beneath me. My experience last night, my entire dream image turned to red the second the machine came on and I woke up instantly to see it still blinking on and off. Now all I need to do is figure out how to use the dim function and I am back in buisness. As far as improvements go, how about a heating and cooling system? I found that when I woke up from my dream I was a bit sweaty where the mask touched my face. Sincerly, Eric

Hi, I've had my ND for about 1.5 years and I function I would like to see would be to "ramp" the intensity of the led's over the duration of the cue. For example, lets say there are 6 flashes during a cue, the first two might be the brightest setting, the second cue would be the next lower intensity and so on.

I think this might really help get your attention witht the first flashes but then the lower intensity remaining flashes would keep from actually waking you up.

What do you think?

Jim

Hi, Jim

I thought about a different feature: The brightness increases from flash to flash, until it detects a certain scheduled pattern of eye movements, i.e. eight rhythmic right - left movements, like those which were used to signal lucidity in Stephen's experiments. I know, that wave analysis is a rather complex task. Maybe one could find another way, i.e. simply use increased REM activity to detect a "I am lucid" signal. But that would be maybe not specific enough. But once this tool in hand, it would be much easier to achieve lucidity. You won't have to play with the settings that much.

Ralf

PS My ND - mask tends to dissolve, too. Would be interesting to have a new mask (the electronic still works properly)

Is there any possibility to create a pattern of flashes/beeps ? For example, the user can specify 4 flash/beeps per second, intervals between them and the length of the flash\beep, so it will create some sort of unique pattern, something like beep-pause-beep-beep-pause-long_beep. Oneironaut can remember appropriate pattern of ND before going to the bed, so it will be more difficult for the brain to rationalize things.

Hi. Thea here. I have not yet used an induction device, but I hope to try one at the next retreat in Feb. But just off the top, I'd like to see all the functions of the ND become accessible to persons who are blind. Such as for instance: Can the ND be plugged into a PC so that a blind person using JFW, Window Eyes, or some other speech screenreader can enter REM data in the journal, or change settings? Or can speech be added to the next incarnation of the SuperNova Dreamer, so that all who are interested can access all the functions without sighted assistance, which isn't always easy to come by at 3 in the morning. Thea

THE NOVADREAMER REQUIRES INSIGHT, NOT SIGHT

Yes, Thea, the ND has a sound function (simple beeps) and can trigger the DreamSpeaker which allows auditory stimuli of any sort you like. The ND is designed to be set and used in circumstances in which we are all functionally blind. That is to say, "in the dark". Thus blind people can easily learn to use it.

And Yes, the ND can be plugged into a PC; that's what the Super Nova Dreamer interface does. I don't know how well the software works with speech synthesizers, but you can download a copy of the software from our website and try it out. Here's the webpage: SuperNova Computer Interface for NovaDreamer

Are there any blind NovaDreamer users out there?

I look forward to meeting you at the upcoming program in Hawaii!

Aloha, Stephen

I really had a blast with the Nova Dreamer at the workshop on the Big Island. I never went lucid with it, but some interesting things happened during afternoon naps at Dream Camp, where I had a chance to check out the device. It seemed I was hearing the beeps, but they were so disguised in my dreams as to be part of the action, and I remained nonlucid. The clearest example occurred the second time I used the NovaDreamer. I dreamed I was in a church at Christmas time. My mother, who is now deceased, was telling me that Grandad's favorite carol was "The Huron Carol." We sang a verse of this song, while someone accompanied us on the piano. I awoke soon after this, to hear the rhythmic beeping of the NovaDreamer. The same rhythm had just been heard in my dream as piano accompaniment for "The Huron Carol." Since there were no dream speakers at Camp, I didn't have a chance to add a recorded suggestion. And I would have liked to try the NovaDreamer for a longer period of time. I had no discomfort sleeping with the device, or wearing the mask. It was a blast.

Just my two cents worth

The new style battery holders are great compaired to the ones I got on my original board about 1996!Really like the new rotary switch too, much easier. The SuperNova makes a big diff to be able to see WHEN those cues were delivered. How about modying the display to also show RT checks? That way, you could see which of those cues were delivered while awake (since you tested them with the RT).

The low battery indicator would be a great idea.

Heck, I'd be happy if you had some soft cloth earpads for the headband. I can't wear the band above my ears, and so the broad band tends to cover about half my ears, and it's a tad chaffing/uncomfortable. For that matter, what about a thinner, split cap style headband like a scuba mask? Would be easy over the ears, and the split cap would help keep it secure I should think.

But for right now, I think I'll just make a couple cloth sleeves to put on the headstrap for my ears

I will double Mark's suggestion on Monday, October 25, 1999 - 11:59 pm. I do also prefer to sleep on my stomach and would prefer if the mask had only the sensors and a tiny transmitter and the rest of the circuitry to be as a seperate device.

Another suggestion is that it could be that the seperate device would just be an interface connected to the PC which would take care of the logging making the ND less complex and expensive leaving the PC software to do all the work. Less parts, cheaper to build, just the sensors on the mask and the transmitter. This would also mean that if the transmitter used discontinuos transmission, power consumption would go down also.

Main issue: too bulky to sleep comfortable enough.

Be well. Niko

I've had the ND for a few weeks. Overall it a great bit of kit. Here are a few comments and question

1. I find it is rather bulky, especially when I am lying on my side. This is mainly due to the batteries and I wondered if a future design could relocate the bateries, perhaps in the centre of the PCB?

2. Talking of the PCB, although I am not a professional electronic engineer I know enough to notice that is is a bit low tech. I expect that this is not worth saying as someone will already be working on the next prototype, but surface mount would be a good way to reduce the bulk. And then when one thinks of the next generation, wireless interfacing springs to mind.

3. I try not to use Microsoft products if I can help it and generally prefer Free (as oppose to free) software. I mainly use Linux as an OS, and I notice that its not supported by the SuperNovaDreamer software. Is anyone undertaking a port to Linux? It seems a pretty small application and shouldnt be too hard. There might be a potential advantage in such a port that lots of people who design small embedded systems are now switching to linux, and it might be a neat way to make a little bed-side computer dedicated to logging NovaDreamer data.

Bill Lionheart

Bill -

1. TLI agrees with your input wrt battery placement, bulk etc. There is a newer generation design being but no ETA has been determined to date.

2. MAC and Windows are supported as you note. Unfortunately the Linux enduser community has not grown to compete yet with either. On the otherhand, if you were to make TLI institute an offer for porting the SW pro bono, the Linux community and TLI institute would be very appreciative. Seen me a note via TLI if you're interested.

Dominick

Hi, I'm new here to the forum but not new to lucid dreaming. Been at that for about 5 years.

Just bought a NovaDreamer several weeks ago and have a question. Sorry if it seems silly, but to change the batteries, does the entire unit slide out of the pocket? I'm getting a little resistance and don't want to damage it by pulling harder.

Appreciate the help!

Peg

Hi Peg,

Not a silly question at all as the solder points are sharp and the electronics are delicate, so you'll want to handle the NovaDreamer's circuit board with care.

To change the batteries, remove the circuit board from the cloth mask by carefully detaching the velcro at the top of the board from the foam side of the mask. Gently ease the board out of its sleeve and then change the batteries. When replacing the board, be sure it is aligned correctly, the bottom ends should not protrude through the mask holes and the sensors and LEDs should not be obstructed by the cloth.

Oh yes, and be sure to do a state test any time you're handling the ND! ;)

Bright dreams! Keelin

Thanks, Keelin, that did it! I never would have known those little velcro dots were inside. If 'battery change' is in the instructions somewhere, I missed it.

Appreciate your help!

BTW, my dream cues have been most amusing. My favorite was my trying to light a friend's cigarette with a bic lighter that just wouldn't keep lit! About 12 'flicks' into it, I 'realized' that my friend didn't smoke and I yelled at her, "Hey!!! We're lucid!" LOL!

Hi,I'm Peter. After only a few nights with the ND and, alas, no lucidities, I'd like to point out a few things worth improving. As for the mask, it smells unpleasantly of synthetic (because it is)and some of the edges are sharp. As for the board, I find it difficult to locate the button and I'm always worried that I might press a capacitor or resistor instead. The board itself with its relatively heavy batteries should in my opinion not be in the mask, but in a separate box connected to the LEDs by a thin cable. This would remove unpleasant pressure from the face and make sleeping more comfortable. However,I think I'll get used to it as it is in time.

Peter

Peter,

Your post reminded me that I've been meaning to make some suggestions, too. I've been using the ND mask on and off for several months now. Like you, I also find the board's design makes the mask uncomfortable to wear. I've sort of gotten used to it, but there's still room for improvement. I suspect that in addition to being uncomfortable, the design makes the board susceptible to being bent, which could cause it to fail after a while. Mine is already beginning to show what looks to me like signs of stress. Also, I needed to cut off the bottom parts of the padding because they got bent and blocked the sensor.

My main complaint though, is that the ND doesn't seem very effective. Yes, it blinks while I'm dreaming, but after the first night my brain quickly adapted, and now essentially ignores it. I've tried all sorts of settings without much luck. Considering its high price, I don't feel I've gotten my money's worth. I'd be interested to know the overall success rate of all people who've tried the ND. I suspect it's pretty low. I've had a few lucid dreams in the past several months, but they've all been without the help of the ND. Surely the Lucidity Institute has studied the effectiveness of various techniques to trigger lucid dreaming. I find it hard to believe that flashing lights are the most effective. I suspect it's just the easiest and most profitable device to market. I understand there used to be an option to trigger a pre-recorded message when REM sleep was detected. There also used to be some sort of device which was worn during the day to give reality checks, and then activated during REM sleep. Whatever happened to those devices?

I think bringing a product to market which can detect REM sleep and record it is a great achievement. But now what? What progress has the Lucidity Institute made recently? Why aren't the other products available any longer? Their Lucidity Flashes newsletter is a joke -- it's nothing but advertising. I apologize for being so hard on them; but the evidence seems to indicate that the Institute is mainly interested in profit nowadays.

-John

Hi Peter,

Thank you for your improvement suggestions for the NovaDreamer. Indeed, it may take awhile to get used to sleeping with a flashing mask on one's face, but we humans can be quite adaptable! Here are some suggestions for your more immediate concerns:

• To reduce the synthetic fragrance of the new mask, you can give it a gentle wash with a mild detergent -- without the circuit board, of course.

• Sew felt to edges you find too sharp for comfort.

• A small, thin, adhesive-backed, felt pad adhered to the Reality Test Button location will help you zero in on the exact spot to press, however, if you're following the essential instruction to press the button EVERY TIME you awaken, you'll come to know this spot almost instinctively in no time.

With the batteries nested in the mask, you're quite free to roll around during the night. It's a bit more restrictive with a cable attaching the mask to an exterior battery site. If you find it really bothersome, you can always try sleeping on your side.

I do hope you're not truly discouraged after "only a few nights" of working with the NovaDreamer. I suspect that in a few more nights, you'll become accustomed to sleeping with the mask and you can move on to the entertaining challenge and reward of catching those light cues.

One final thought: It's good to keep in mind that as long as the mask is delivering cues, it's doing its job. The ability to recognize the significance of the cue is up to you, and if you follow the Course that comes with the ND package, you'll find excellent exercises that will help you get the most effective results for all of your efforts.

Please keep us posted on your progress!

Brilliant dreams to all, Keelin

Dear John,

Perhaps we can help you? Please tell us more about how you've been working with the NovaDreamer (the history of your settings, data, dream logs) and I'm sure we can offer some suggestions. Have you completed the Course that accompanies the NovaDreamer? While I don't have current statistics at hand ( remember, I don't actually work for TLI), I can assure you the device has been proven effective. You might find the article: "Validity Established of DreamLight Cues for Eliciting Lucid Dreaming" of interest in this regard. http://www.lucidity.com/DreamLight_Validity.txt

Please also be assured that several other cueing methods were indeed researched. You'll find this covered in "Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming", along with an explanation of why light emerged as the obvious winner.

Towards more light! Keelin

Keelin,

Thanks for the encouragement. Yes, I've read the course and tried various techniques. My complaint is just that, like you said, "we humans can be quite adaptable". I adapted to the queues much faster than I ever expected. After the first night, the flashes hid themselves in my dreams in very subtle ways. While awake, I practiced reality checks whenever I saw a blinking light, a reflection, or anything shiny. I've found myself doing reality checks when asleep, but it hasn't yet triggered lucidity. I now think I understand why.

In the past few weeks, I've stepped up my research of sleep and dreams. I was surprised to learn that the human mind goes to great lengths to remain asleep, because sleep is such an important part of being healthy. It seems the big reason it's so difficult to achieve lucidity is because lucidity can easily lead to awakening. As a protective mechanism, the brain works very hard to circumvent anything which might lead to premature awakening.

I don't doubt the ND is effective; but just how effective is it? If statistics show that the ND is effective only a small percentage of the time, then the consumer has a right to that information. It's not enough to simply say a product is effective without mentioning its level of effectiveness. If the Lucidity Institute has this information, I would like access to it. If effectiveness studies have not been performed, then I would be curious to know why.

I think that lucidity in itself is a very worthwhile goal which merits pursuing. However, I am rather disappointed in what I've seen of the Lucidity Institute to date. It seems to have degenerated into a scheme to sell profitable, yet questionably effective devices, and also a way for certain people to take an annual "business" trip to Hawaii.

I again apologize for being so blunt, but that's just how I feel.

-John

P.S.,

Regarding the link to the article you provided, I noted a very important point concerning the test subjects: "All of the subjects had previous experience with lucid dreaming." So, the ND was effective at increasing the level of lucid dreaming in subjects which were already lucid dreamers. This is just what I would expect, and the primary reason I want to keep my ND. The issue now is to get started. Once lucidity becomes a regular phenomenon of my dreams, I have no doubt it will increase.

Hi Keelin,

Thanks for your advice. The fact is that after 4 nights with the ND I hardly noticed the synthetic fragrance of the mask anymore and it started feeling altogether more comfortable. Meanwhile I've returned it to the dealer (don't be shocked), because it had completely failed the sensitivity test and led me to believe it was oversensitive. (I've had a lenghty email discussion about this with Nathen). But I'm sure I will be successful with the replacement, because persistence is my strong point. PS: I enjoyed reading your "experiences with the ND". PER ASPERAM AD LUCIDITATEM!

Peter

Hi John,

Sorry about the trouble you're experiencing. I also had high expectations for the first few nights with the Nd, having been a lucid dreamer for 10 years, but there were only cues I didn't see and flashes while I was awake and fitful sleeping. As for the right cue mixture, have you ever tried left right flashes at intensity 6 and rate 3 FOR 1.4 MINUTES ? You'd expect this should wake a dead man, at least you should notice something in your dreams. And then, there's the dream alarm. Have you ever worked with it? On the other hand those devices are only crutches anyway, and perhaps relying on them too much only impedes the development of our natural mindfulness. What about choosing one of the many other methods for becoming lucid and practising it and using the ND only occasionally or for naps? For me personally meditating in the early morning hours and then going back to sleep has always worked best (but it takes time and effort). I wish you good luck! Don't give up! PER ASPERA AD LUCIDITATEM! (Which means: Through hardship to lucidity)

Peter

John:

I know it's been many years since I read the Course In Lucid Dreaming that came with my Dreamlight (the ND predecessor), but doesn't the course itself say that the ND is an aid toward lucid dreaming, and that the user still must provide a substantial amount of personal discipline and interest to achieve lucid dreaming? Can't the course be done without the ND at all? I could be wrong about this, but I'm not wrong when I say that lucid dreaming is a very difficult state to achieve, particularly for the reasons you note above.

You might want to go through that course again, and maybe try some of the exercises again with the knowledge that the ND is at its core a device that simply detects REM activity, and blinks to alert its user. Whether or not the user is prepared to respond to that stimulus is up to the user, and not the machine.

Please don't dismiss Keelin's offer of help. She has vast experience with the ND, and might be able to work with you until the settings are in their most helpful positions. She can only help if you share info about your settings and experience, though.

You also might consider browsing the 'Learning Lucid Dreaming' portion of the forum, especially the frustration support group threads. There is an enormous amount of valuable information, mostly provided by contributors like Peter Auer (excellent post, Peter!), that might help you get started effectively.

I hope that you will give the LI, and its forum, a deeper look, and a little more credit. I think if you do, you will discover that it can be an important tool in your quest for lucidity. But remember, it's YOUR quest -- all we, and the machines, can do is help.

The best of dreams,

Peter

Hi Peter,

Glad to hear you're feeling more cozy with the NovaDreamer -- and hope your new one arrives soon. Also, I want to thank you for your excellent reminder regarding using the ND in combination with morning naps -- add the MILD technique and a pre-set goal and, according to TLI research, chances of attaining lucidity rise dramatically.

Napping in Napa, Keelin

Hi Dreamers,

A couple of weeks ago, a comment questioning the effectiveness of the NovaDreamer was posted here. There is a section in TLI's FAQ that addresses this concern in much more detail than my original response. For all who are interested, you'll find this info -- including statistics -- at: http://www.lucidity.com/LucidDreamingFAQ2.html#howquick

Bright dreams to all, Keelin

Keelin,

I would like to make a suggestion that the idea of the DreamSpeaker be revived in some fashion. It seems to me that in terms of survival and protection during sleep the more important of the five senses is the sense of hearing. Therefore our brains might be designed to be extra sensitive to audio input, rather than visual cues, when we're asleep.

If these assumptions are correct, a device that is more geared to hearing than the ND currently is would seem a logical idea. I would like to see a modification of the current product that at least has the option of triggering a separate recorded message, or has one hardwired, for playback through earphones.

I have had success listening to cycling CD tracks through wireless earphones. I've found several Internet sources of LD induction CD's, some using mind-sync technology. Occasionally I play them all night, since they often include a relaxation protocol that helps me fall asleep, but more often during naps or after first awakening. Often the recorded voice has been incorporated directly into the dream verbatim. Sometimes it triggers a dream in which I'm in an LD class listening to a teacher lecture, which has alone triggered lucidity. It also helps during WILD induction, since, like others, I have trouble concentrating on a task "until I fall asleep". I let the CD do the talking.

-Paul

Hi Paul,

Thanks for your thoughtful suggestions. It looks like you'll have a chance to try out a DreamSpeaker at the retreat, as Stephen believes he'll able to locate one to bring along. I'm sure he'd even be willing to dictate a personal message on it for you which would fit right in with your dream scenario of listening to a lecture on lucid dreaming. ; )

We'll also be listening to TLI's Trance Induction CD prior to bedtime (and you'll get one to take home with you too).

Looking forward to meeting you soon! Warm aloha, Keelin

How's this for a message?:

"Vey haf vays of making you loozid!!!"

That should get my attention!

-Paul

Hi, Keelin. Too bad that light proved to be the top cue. Has TLI ever considered using totally blind subjects to research the next gen of the ND? Since I can't see light, the flashes wouldn't work. In order for me to have a unit that worked, I'd have to use the ND with the beeps on, the light off, and the PEST and DreamSpeaker. Just curious: If all dreamers were totally blind, what sort of aid would you envision?

Hi, Keelin. How's it going? Regarding the ND, I've been reading a whole slew of books: everything I can get in Braille or on talking book. In one of them, "Some Must Watch While Some Must Sleep" there was a report that Dr. Dement's research team had used George Shearing as a subject to discover whether blind people had REM. The book said that REM was not present in people blind from birth. Therefore, I wonder, even if I could buy the ND, whether it would be useful to me. Thea