In the simplest terms all NDE are just that, they are near death not death and come back and all experienced in a living body and brain. As profound as they are and as much as it would be nice to see this a proof it sits in the arena of belief for now
I find it humorous how some continue to reject the idea of an existence beyond the end of corporeal life. I wonder if it is nature or nurture?
buildit wrote: I find it humorous how some continue to reject the idea of an existence beyond the end of corporeal life. I wonder if it is nature or nurture?
Some people don't want to deal with an afterlife, buildit. I am not rejecting the idea at all, buildit. I am just afraid of it. And why shouldn't I be? Some people have afflictions they just don't want to deal with for all eternity. Why don't you think about what it would be like for someone to have to deal with mood swings, pain, or some other affliction for all eternity, and see how they would like it?
It's nature, buildit. But not in the way you think. Nature shows us the absence of the postulated elan vital and us sceptics point this out to Spiritualists, New Agers, and the religious. And then again nature makes most of us afraid of death, which, as Freud pointed out, causes people like you to hold on to the comfortable fantasy for dear life. In your case it might be both.
Not only is the afterlife belief absurd against all the substantial opposing evidence, I am also glad that an actual spirit realm is extremely unlikely. It means that we are spared the horrifying tedium and agonising madness concommitant with eternal consciousness. :-)
Immortality is not true, and if it were, it would be a curse.
Summerlander wrote: It's nature, buildit. But not in the way you think. Nature shows us the absence of the postulated elan vital and us sceptics point this out to Spiritualists, New Agers, and the religious. And then again nature makes most of us afraid of death, which, as Freud pointed out, causes people like you to hold on to the comfortable fantasy for dear life. In your case it might be both.
I do honestly believe that for their sake, there is a DMT release for some people that happens at the moment of death, which allows a person to have one last very vivid dream before complete oblivion, making it that much easier for some people to accept.
Not only is the afterlife belief absurd against all the substantial opposing evidence, I am also glad that an actual spirit realm is extremely unlikely. It means that we are spared the horrifying tedium and agonising madness concommitant with eternal consciousness. :-)
Whether it were true or false, the idea is frightening. Remember as I said earlier? You want to be stuck with your afflictions and simply continue to gain more of them? Oh and don't forget, the germs, bacteria, mosquitos, cockroaches, and fleas probably are immortal too. You know what that means don't you? Eternal sickness, illness, and misery for all.
Summerlander wrote: Immortality is not true, and if it were, it would be a curse.
Only to those whose lives are build upon the desires and wants of a corporeal existence.
buildit wrote:
Summerlander wrote: Immortality is not true, and if it were, it would be a curse.
Only to those whose lives are build upon the desires and wants of a corporeal existence.
Eh not quite Buildit. How about those who are handicapped and don't desire to be handicapped for eternity? Or those who are sick and cannot be cured of the illness. Why not think about that for a second?
nesgirl wrote: Eh not quite Buildit. How about those who are handicapped and don't desire to be handicapped for eternity? Or those who are sick and cannot be cured of the illness. Why not think about that for a second?
I am oddly quite certain than any afterlife would not mirror our corporeal existence. For example, is your Lucid Dream environment identical to reality? I suspect our lucid dreams are a preparatory stage towards non-corporeal existence.
On the plus side sex appears to be irrelevant in a non-corporeal life. ;) Think how upset Summerland would be. :lol:
buildit wrote:
nesgirl wrote: Eh not quite Buildit. How about those who are handicapped and don't desire to be handicapped for eternity? Or those who are sick and cannot be cured of the illness. Why not think about that for a second?
I am oddly quite certain than any afterlife would not mirror our corporeal existence. For example, is your Lucid Dream environment identical to reality? I suspect our lucid dreams are a preparatory stage towards non-corporeal existence.
On the plus side sex appears to be irrelevant in a non-corporeal life. ;) Think how upset Summerland would be. :lol:
It isn't what they teach at all in Utah. While males will kind of get a role similar to something like that if they get married to a female, females don't get those kind of privileges. They teach that you get auto-married if you aren't so in the next life (even if you are asexual). And females are obviously the wives who keep creating the babies for them....out their rears because of, blech, eternal romance. And other than that, they really don't play much of a role other than taking care of the children and supporting the husband.
nesgirl wrote: It isn't what they teach at all in Utah. While males will kind of get a role similar to something like that if they get married to a female, females don't get those kind of privileges. They teach that you get auto-married if you aren't so in the next life (even if you are asexual). And females are obviously the wives who keep creating the babies for them....out their rears because of, blech, eternal romance. And other than that, they really don't play much of a role other than taking care of the children and supporting the husband.
LOL, and I'm sure the Muslims think there will be 72 virgins. :roll: I'm talking about an existence as energy. Male and female would be as meaningless as short and tall.
only 72, well thats no good
energy - yip I like that thought. Free to gobble up sunlight and dark matter for food and just go see whats out there. Become a ship if thats what is needed for the day.. sounds like a great lucid
I'm talking about an existence as energy. Male and female would be as meaningless as short and tall.
If you are talking about in my Lucid Dreams, I am not exactly free of my mood swings in many of my Lucid Dreams. In fact some of them, I am overwhelmed by my mood swings. If mood swings are affecting some of my Lucid Dreams, then obviously I would be affected in energy form, now would I not?
As far as my programmed energy form in a Lucid Dream is concerned, while occasionally I am consciousness, and sometimes I will shape-shift, I am more prone to accept my own female shape (chest and all). I wouldn't have it any other way than to most of the time be in a female shape, because that's what I am. I wouldn't want to trade away being a female for anything, because my gender means a lot to me, and I am sure a lot of users feel the same about their gender. You just made me fear the afterlife even more.
Peter wrote: only 72, well thats no good
energy - yip I like that thought. Free to gobble up sunlight and dark matter for food and just go see whats out there. Become a ship if thats what is needed for the day.. sounds like a great lucid
In an odd way it makes perfect sense to me when I consider.
- Mankind is very destructive
- The earths carrying capacity close to being maxed out and humans keep breeding like mold
- There soon will not be enough resources on this world to send ourselves to a new world
- Mankind is ill build for prolonged space travel
- If we assume other life in the Universe they too must have faced this "wall" and they may have resolved the same answer.
- Lucid Dreamers all seem to concur that flight and OBE experiences are often associated with the greatest level of LD control.
- Lucid Dreams are such an ideal training ground for the mind to prepare for non-corporeal existence.
I know this doesn't meet the religious expectations of certain groups but then there is only one unifying concept of all those religions. An existence beyond corporeal, possibly as a reward for moral values. Even that may have a basis for some truth. Being able to surrender corporeal desires and needs may in fact be the hardest part of becoming non-corporeal. The pending death of the body might make this easier but I'm not clear on this aspect.
Being able to surrender corporeal desires and needs may in fact be the hardest part of becoming non-corporeal
some of the bodyless experiences I have had in what I call the void or void state are without any part or residue of me existing but with some form of self identity differant to what I have now. In short something existed that had awareness in a different form but did exist and had no physical component.
There would be no issue existing like this at all, I have not chased up this state for a longtime but feel I could if I wanted to again so at some time yes I will.
The wall, yes. One of my thoughts is that we are advancing or developing in a way that may allow us to move on, just an interesting though and have no need to defend this. Will have my answer when I die and will either be right of wont know and either is fine really
Without any contact from or with other life forms of a physical nature and the stupidity of finding what we are looking for in more macro and micro events in space and quantum states it appears to be a dream that is driven by belief and suffers from an event that is taken as proof but the nuts and bolts can never be seen A bit of track here but I do that. Anyway lets hone these skills and if needed then one day we might just be truly free
Peter wrote: Anyway lets hone these skills and if needed then one day we might just be truly free
I've spent several months slowly piecing together a life beyond corporeal. Each night it is as if I get another tiny bit of the puzzle. Last night was some sort of insight as to what will become of those who are left behind. It wasn't pleasant and I didn't understand much of it but I was very lucid of what was going on. Part of me really wants to leave this life, but just enough is duty bound to those still here to keep me from really wanting to let go the rest of the way. Someday I look forward to breaking that last bond.
keep the thought that when u are ready it will happen and until till then just enjoy, life is special no matter what is or is not beyond.
keen to hear about any insights, if its not for public thats cool or pm is you wish
I suspect the release of endogenous DMT and other psychedelic compounds in the brain will lead us to experience a pseudo-afterlife, as nesgirl pointed out, during the dying process.
Believers will think, "I knew it!" and the sceptics will be wondering, "Is this real?" And both will be ushered out of existence and into oblivion without noticing. In a way, this is the best case scenario. But, I concede to buildit, I don't know. People who die in explosions get nirvana straight away... but no raisi...erm... virgins. :-D