I'm one of those people who have had lucid dreams since childhood. I was three when I started having them, and I have yet to have a dryspell. I have been having them more frequently (as I'm aware of) with age, I had 158 lucid dreams during March alone.

Ok, bragging done. I'm making this thread, hoping to find out more about how I'm able to have lucid dreams 4 times a night on average, and sharing what I know so far.

As pj pointed out in my dream journal, in most of my dreams, I'm lucid as the dream begin. I spent a lot of time discussing this with a DV member on Skype during Easter. I realised some important things during those talks.

Everyone who has had a lucid dream will know that dreams have a certain feeling to them, that differ them from real life. I find this feeling hard to describe, other than being dreamy. This feeling is present in almost all of my dreams. This feeling makes me lucid from the start of the dream. I don't go "oh, I'm dreaming!", I just know, and it's like a second nature.

Those times I don't pick up on the dreamy feeling, I usually end up lucid some time during the dream because of dreamsigns, or something simply being out of place, like unstable writing.

In general, maybe it's just that I easily distinguish between real and unreal. After all, I've never had to do anything to have lucid dreams.

I don't know if this will help anyone, but I do think that reality checks will be more powerful if the person doing it also check for that dreamy atmosphere or feeling that is in a dream.

Any thoughts/comments or questions?

Yeah. First of all. WTFF!!!! I envy you so much xD

I think you are a natural LILDer. Wtf is a LILD? It's called Lucid Induction of Lucid Dreams. It consists of, in a lucid dream, recognising that "dreamy feeling", and getting used to the idea that whenever you experience it, you'll be dreaming. It's in theory hard to get to work, but if perfected is maybe the best technique out of all.

Since what age did you have those?

Btw, i don't know about you, but most of my dreams usually start very dim and unvivid, sometimes not even a dream at all. And I think that's what fools me (and many other people) into not realising the dream. Even when I wake up, it's not rare for me to spend like 2min, do habitual things and etc completely unconscious!

Think you can teach that to anyone? I mean, how to boost that awareness.. If something works on getting you more lucid, it should work for others getting lucid.

Btw, what do you experience in the beggining of a dream? How does it feel like? Can you distinguish a fine line between not-dreaming and dreaming? Do you get lucid in an instant, or does lucidity grow as the dream forms? Do you wake up in the middle of the night often? How much do you sleep per night? When you wake up, how do you realise you are awake (or you don't?)

You know, to think of it, working on asking yourself if what you see it real, when you wake up, is maybe the best way of working on DILDs.

Also, any hints that come to your mind are appreciated!

I thought the fact that I'm a natural lucid dreamer is obvious. I've actually never heard of LILD before! So thanks for that info.

I've had lucid dreams since I was 3.

The start of the dream is always a bit fuzzy, unless it's a spontaneous WILD. I usually won't remember it starting until the scene is "set". But I do know that my senses "start working" out of sync. I know that my dream hearing typically start working before I can see anything. But again, I usually seem to be unaware of the first moments of the dream until it's "settled" and clear, like a normal dream.

Lucidity doesn't come sudden unless I gain lucidity by reality check. It "grows" in the same way that the dream appears and grows as it starts.

I wake up often throughout the night. This doesn't bother me, and it helps my dream recall. The first thoughts that go through my head every time I wake up is "Was I just dreaming/What did I just dream?" I can confirm that lucid dreams can be forgotten, quite easily, too.

I sleep 7-9 hours a night. Usually 7 1/2 on work nights, I have a regular sleep cycle that I keep us as good as I can even on weekends.

When I wake up in the morning, I know that I'm awake because it feels real. Also, I'm aware of the hypnagogic and hypnapomic state, so I feel my consciousness shift as I wake up, and start to fall asleep.

I hope this helps.

-.-

Since you were three??  >:( Life is unfair.

To think of it, I believe you do like those yogis do: they develop a part of their brain that is responsible for analysing reality. As your thought frequency increases when a dream forms, that part of the brain is also activated.

Do you sometimes catch yourself "sleeping consciously"?

Btw what do you do in your lucid dreams??? MAN it must rock so much

also are you willing to adopt someone?

Again, new information I've never heard of. That's interesting. Maybe that's what's happening.

I have been "aware of sleeping" before, especially as I fall asleep in the evening, I'll recognise the hypnagogic state. This isn't really sleeping, but I'm not awake, either. I can test if I'm correct with thinking that I'm in this state by opening my eyes and feel if my consciousness shifts or not. By going deeper into this state, I will eventually stop feeling my body and my vision will be blanked out, but I can only go so deep consciously before being properly and unconsciously asleep.

What I do in them... it depends on lucidity and clarity of thought. In the first dreams during the night, I will just be aware that I'm dreaming, but I go along with the dream, knowing it's not real and that whatever I do doesn't matter in real life. Still, I rarely manipulate the dream in this state of lucidity. When I'm properly lucid, I often also just go with the dream plot, to see where it takes me. I'll also often manipulate and create my dreamscape and do things I like to do, like horseback riding. I also find it fun to turn myself into an animal, and fly. Lately, I've been training myself to do tasks, but this is a challenge because memory in dreams are pretty random.

But I have three adoptees already...

OMG that's so cool!! I mean... sleeping consciously... My one and most important aim in life xDDD

Yep, just like you, I don't like to manipulate the dream much. I much rather let the dream surprise me with new situations and respond to them myself. Not remotely as frequent as you, though xD

Memories in dreams are the funniest thing ever xD Inquiring random DCs gets my humour up the roof lol

:< Four is a good number... haha kidding, duwanna be any extra weigh ^^

Oh yeah, it's great fun to carry out conversations with DCs.

About adoption... I will just have to see what the time I have on my hands is like.

Quote from: Luminous on April 17, 2008, 08:50:30 AMI'm one of those people who have had lucid dreams since childhood. I was three when I started having them, and I have yet to have a dryspell. I have been having them more frequently (as I'm aware of) with age, I had 158 lucid dreams during March alone. 158 in one month!    ..

Quote from: Luminous on April 17, 2008, 08:50:30 AMEveryone who has had a lucid dream will know that dreams have a certain feeling to them, that differ them from real life. I find this feeling hard to describe, other than being dreamy. This feeling is present in almost all of my dreams. This feeling makes me lucid from the start of the dream. I don't go "oh, I'm dreaming!", I just know, and it's like a second nature. I know exactly what you mean by that certain dream "feeling".  I recognize it when I've WILDed into a lucid.. I just wish I would recognize it when I'm in a regular dream.

I'm amazed by this, luminous.  Especially because you've been doing it naturally for so long.  I think everyone could have a lot to learn from you.  If only we could figure out where to begin.  How could we learn to recognize the 'dream feeling' the way you do?

EDIT: I just thought of one question.  Is it you that feels different in the dream? Or the dream world that feels different?

I know what you mean by "dream feeling" as well. I'm just not.. conscious enough to even care that it's there most of the time! Bah. Therein lie my woes.

Lumi, you are describing something that it seems like I (or anyone who has had a few lucids) should be able to do too.  It seems so simple that I should be able to recognize that dream-feeling every time now; after a vivid regular dream I just can't believe I missed getting lucid.  I keep thinking I'll acquire the ability that you are describing someday.  Maybe I will, I don't know.  I hope so.

I think I may forget at least some of my lucids, if not a lot of them.  Sometimes I have this vague feeling that I had a lucid dream but I just can't get it back.  Waking up a lot at night helps; I go thru periods where I'm doing that and my recall is definitely better then.

Well, you give me hope.  Maybe you've just got a really good head start on the rest of us, and we will catch up some day!    Thanks a lot for sharing your experience.

Thank you for starting this thread, Luminous!  I've been waiting anxiously for it.

Tell me more about how you know when you are awake.  It seems to me that would be key to recognizing the dream state as well.  One of the Buddhist traditions teaches a constant state of awareness that transcends consciousness and thus leads quite naturally to "lucid dreaming," though that's not the way they look at it - it is merely retaining a higher consciousness in both wake and sleep and any other state that may be encountered.

I do a LOT of RCs during the day because my state of consciousness varies wildly.  I get very disassociated feeling from time to time - experiencing it right now, in fact.  I checked... I'm awake.  It just seems that, perhaps, you are aware of your waking state somewhat differently than most of us.

People who learn things very young and excel at them, I've found, have often simply found a novel way to think about something.  It is usually incredibly challenging to find out what that way of thinking IS, because the individual has been thinking that way for so long without conscious intervention that it becomes very challenging to analyze.

Think about this one... and see if perhaps it rings a bell with you.

Thanks again for posting more about your experiences and methods!

You all have very good points, so thanks for sharing your input so far.

To Robot: It's a bit of both. I will feel like I'm in a kind of altered state of consciousness, which is pretty much what's going on. It's not like feeling drunk or high or anything (I've never been drunk, but I've been (and am) on some medication that makes you feel drugged), but a unique kind of feeling that seems to be centered in my head. And my surroundings will have a special atmosphere to it. I've especially noticed that when I'm outdoors on a sunny day in a dream, the light will be different from real life, it will be whiter and more diffuse, which enhances the dream feeling/atmosphere. All this is things I will need to remember to focus on when I'm actually in a lucid dream, to be able to describe it better. Yes, I think this is something that can be learned, but I can imagine that this is an advanced method that would fit those who already have experience with lucid dreams, and want more out of it. So this is the perfect forum to discuss and explore this.

Moonbeam: Maybe with all of us together, we can figure out a way all of you can benefit from this, and learn to use recognising the feeling of a dream to have more lucid dreams. This is one of the "goals" I have on this forum.

pj: I'm a little uncertain on this one, but I think this works on both a conscious and subconscious level. I think that I am comparing the feeling of being awake and the feeling of being in a dream to determine if I'm awake or dreaming. Yes, it's a challenge to analyse this, but I think I'm getting somewhere, especially with the right questions asked.

Quote from: Luminous on April 17, 2008, 08:50:30 AMEveryone who has had a lucid dream will know that dreams have a certain feeling to them, that differ them from real life. I find this feeling hard to describe, other than being dreamy. This feeling is present in almost all of my dreams. This feeling makes me lucid from the start of the dream. I don't go "oh, I'm dreaming!", I just know, and it's like a second nature. I know what you mean about the feeling of a dream as well.  Never used that for lucid purposes, but I would use it for recall.  As long as I held onto that lingering feeling, I could bring back memories of the dream.  I was really into exploring that for awhile, then completely forgot about it.  Thanks for bringing it up, it's sure to help my recall!

Quote from: Luminous on April 17, 2008, 10:23:57 AMThe start of the dream is always a bit fuzzy, unless it's a spontaneous WILD. I usually won't remember it starting until the scene is "set". But I do know that my senses "start working" out of sync. I know that my dream hearing typically start working before I can see anything. But again, I usually seem to be unaware of the first moments of the dream until it's "settled" and clear, like a normal dream. I've noticed that as well.  When dreams are fresh, they are not quite stable and sort of foggy or hazy.  I find that a pain in the ass for WILDing, since I have to run or fly around for awhile while I wait for things to stabalize.  That's what ruined my attempt to find meet Xox.

Wow, you're really lucky to be able to do that.

I know what you mean by the 'dream-like feeling' but I have to be really aware to recognize it. I agree with Kromoh that you are like the Tibetian dream yogis for being able to recognize this feeling so often.

Quote from: Hazel on April 19, 2008, 07:10:19 PMWow, you're really lucky to be able to do that.

I know what you mean by the 'dream-like feeling' but I have to be really aware to recognize it. I agree with Kromoh that you are like the Tibetian dream yogis for being able to recognize this feeling so often.

Me too. Most of my lucids havent been because Ive seen something strange and done a RC, most of them have started off lucid. I had a long think about why, and how I could increase frequency of these and still don`t really understand. But, when I have been thinking about lucid dreaming (especially after an extended break) these immediate lucid dreams seem to happen.

Also, these immediately lucid for me usually happen in between other dreams, not at the start or the end of the dreaming cycle.

What are your experiences?

(I don`t have lucids very regularly and am not a natural lucid dreamer. My first one that I could recall happened the day after I registered for DVs)

Once again, I will find you and eat you to try to posses your power.

Maybe during the next couple times I get lucid, I'll take time to notice the "dream" feeling.  I know what you're talking about, but I don't catch it.  Maybe if I practice feeling the dream feeling, and associating with it, I can get a step closer toward your level.

You are ridiculous, though!    In a good way.

Quote from: StephenT on April 23, 2008, 10:55:32 PMOnce again, I will find you and eat you to try to posses your power.

Maybe during the next couple times I get lucid, I'll take time to notice the "dream" feeling.  I know what you're talking about, but I don't catch it.  Maybe if I practice feeling the dream feeling, and associating with it, I can get a step closer toward your level.

You are ridiculous, though!    In a good way.

or at least well eat his pineal gland muhwaaaaa thats awesome, I hope we can learn lots from....MASTER?

Ok, I think it's time for me to start wearing a helmet (especially when I sleep) to avoid having my brain or brain parts stolen...

And I'm a she!

2Fruits: since you have experienced getting lucid "out of the blue", you might have been become lucid the same way that I do. I've had lucid dreams for 22 years, and it's not until now that I have started realising how I do it.

Does anyone know if what we are talking about here is a known technique already? I've seen and read through lots of lucid dreaming techniques, but not anything like what we are talking about here (other than the mentioned LILD)

Maybe we could together work out a technique using all this to increase lucidity rate for those of you who already have (some) lucid dreams?...

Quote from: Luminous on April 24, 2008, 06:48:42 AMOk, I think it's time for me to start wearing a helmet (especially when I sleep) to avoid having my brain or brain parts stolen...

And I'm a she!

2Fruits: since you have experienced getting lucid "out of the blue", you might have been become lucid the same way that I do. I've had lucid dreams for 22 years, and it's not until now that I have started realising how I do it.

Does anyone know if what we are talking about here is a known technique already? I've seen and read through lots of lucid dreaming techniques, but not anything like what we are talking about here (other than the mentioned LILD)

Maybe we could together work out a technique using all this to increase lucidity rate for those of you who already have (some) lucid dreams?...

Hmm I agree, I've never read it as a technique as such but I have seen the idea thrown around a bit.

I know exactly what you mean about the dream feeling. Usually for me it is almost if the air I breathe is 'happy air' (body temp.), and usually my body feels comfortable in a non nightmare dream (as in I never seem to be cold or warm with that dreamy feeling at the start of a dream.

You know the expression 'makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside', that's how the dreamy feeling is for me

I really do want to work out a technique.

If a person already regularly has lucids, (but wants to make them more regular) maybe whilst in a lucid reality check and really feel that dreamy feeling? Maybe even reality check a couple of times?

Yup I know what you mean about the senses being 'separated' at first. For me, usually sight comes last (I mean sight sight not just HI).

The lucids where I have always known it was a dream, have started off black and I feel dreamy. Then I get hearing, touch then sight.

AAAAhh I can FEEEL the potential for me to be lucid regularly... but actually developing a technique is difficult!

It's frustrating because I know what dreamy feeling you guys are talking about, but I just don't notice it often enough.   I'm kind an oblivious, autopilot kind of person IRL too so that sure doesn't help probably.

Quote from: 2Fruits on April 24, 2008, 07:05:27 AMAAAAhh I can FEEEL the potential for me to be lucid regularly... but actually developing a technique is difficult!

That's what I feel like to.  It feels close, even, but I've felt that way for a long time.  Like any day now something will click and I'll start getting lucid all of the time. I don't think that happens to most people tho.  2Fruits I like your idea about doing more RC's while lucid.  I don't know if it will work, but at least it's an idea.  Try to really absorb that feeling and try to learn to be more aware of it.

Quote from: Moonbeam on April 24, 2008, 07:12:25 AM That's what I feel like to.  It feels close, even, but I've felt that way for a long time.  Like any day now something will click and I'll start getting lucid all of the time. I don't think that happens to most people tho.  2Fruits I like your idea about doing more RC's while lucid.  I don't know if it will work, but at least it's an idea.  Try to really absorb that feeling and try to learn to be more aware of it.

Exactly! You've hit the nail on the head there! It really does feel like something will click, but I agree, I don't think that happens much.

Hmm yeah maybe one lucid I'll 'sacrifice' in the name of wanting more lucids xD I think I might try putting myself into a room with nothing in it but me.I think I will reality check, then I will try to repeat a mantra (some kind of meditation? I'm not sure), whilst trying to absorb that dream feeling. Like, 'I can feel that this is a dream' etc.!

It'll be interesting to see what effects RCing in a LD to try and have more will have!

Now... its just a question of getting lucid

Hmm... I have some ideas for some techniques, but I want to give them some thought. Just give me a day or so. I'll then make a thread in that forum for developing lucid dreaming techniques, does that sound good?

lumi,

i think i just fell off my chair here at work (due to your post!)... envious am i, but perhaps it also comes with a sort of "the grass is always greener on the other side..."  i don't have the time yet to catch up on this whole thread, but i read enough to first thank you for sharing this wonderful information of your experiences, opening them up to us with this thread.

I know that dream feeling, but I can never really remember it well enough while awake to really focus on it.  I try to read through my journal and bring up vivid memories about how the dream felt, but its not always easy.

I also have dreams sometimes that feel so unbelievably real, I'm not convinced its a dream even after I fail a RC.  They don't have that dream feeling.  These are the dreams that often turn into my most vivid and fully lucid-lucids.  These are the ones that make me think this 'dream feeling' can be recreated while awake.  If I can have dreams that don't have the  'dream feeling', then the feeling must be separate from the actual dream state.  Does this make any sense?

About the clicking thing.  I have had a few experiences during WBTBs where I take a minute to try to recreate that dream feeling, and I actually feel it sink in and click.  During those WBTBs, I know 100% that I am going to have a lucid.  I don't have to do any technique while falling back to sleep, because I already felt it click.

Theres a certain passage in Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep that I remember reading.  It ties in with a meditation practice I used to do years ago when I did work at the Tibetan Cultural Center in Berkeley. The few times that I've felt things click, it was from reading this passage and actually understanding it.  I will find it and post it.  I've been thinking about this a lot lately, and trying to remember the specifics of how to learn this meditation.

Quote from: Robot_Butler on April 24, 2008, 02:13:35 PMI also have dreams sometimes that feel so unbelievably real, I'm not convinced its a dream even after I fail a RC.  They don't have that dream feeling.  These are the dreams that often turn into my most vivid and fully lucid-lucids.  These are the ones that make me think this 'dream feeling' can be recreated while awake.  If I can have dreams that don't have the  'dream feeling', then the feeling must be separate from the actual dream state.  Does this make any sense?I know what you mean about having lucids that seem to lack that dreamlike feeling. During those lucids I always feel a little suspicious until I do something stupendous such as flying. I never considered the second part, though. It makes sense. However, like you, I can never quite seem to recall that dreamlike feeling after waking up from the dream . The only part that I can ever recall is that it felt, well, dreamlike.

Sounds like this should be a lucid task for me - to describe the dreamlike feeling in words while I am still dreaming. When I wake up I may not be able to remember the feeling itself, but I could probably remember the words I used to describe it, and hopefully I could use that to remind myself of the dream feeling and tune myself to recognizing it more often. On a side note, If I succeed, it would be interesting to see how my lucid description of the dream feeling compares to other people's accounts.

That's true that the dream-like feel can go away when you get lucid, if it's a really good one.  Still, there should be a way to train ourselves to recognize it.

Quote from: Moonbeam on April 24, 2008, 07:01:09 PMThat's true that the dream-like feel can go away when you get lucid, if it's a really good one.  Still, there should be a way to train ourselves to recognize it.

It doesn't go away, your mind just becomes extremely active and you don't need to notice it anymore because you're already lucid.

There definitely has to be a way to train the ability to recognize the feeling, because it is very profound.

As 2fruits said, then it's just a matter of getting lucid enough to train it.

Thats a great idea, Dub.  Lets all try to keep that in mind (so many tasks for so few lucids ) and compare notes.  I really want to figure this out.

I think those lucids that do not feel dreamy are the key.  I always take notice of them.  Like I don't believe its a dream even after I know, logically it must be.  Maybe we need to compare those with other lucids.  If we can pinpoint what is missing, we can better understand the dreamy feeling.

Okay since I have a lot of time on my hands at the moment (I don`t understand class so I just do my own stuff. Plus sometimes (now) I go up to the exchange student room to use the internet. I came up with some ideas during class but they are a bit scattered so apologies for that

So for the people that are naturally lucid often, have you been like this since you were young?

I agree with what has been said. The habits that we develop at a young age stick very quickly.

Also I agree that this does tie in with Tibetan Dream Yoga. I think I read once on DV saying one of the main aspects to TDY is that they constantly analyse reality. As in, detatch themselves from reality and ask what would this be like if it were a dream... dream feeling etc.

Quote from: Robot_Butler on April 24, 2008, 07:27:42 PMThats a great idea, Dub.  Lets all try to keep that in mind (so many tasks for so few lucids ) and compare notes.  I really want to figure this out.

I think those lucids that do not feel dreamy are the key.  I always take notice of them.  Like I don't believe its a dream even after I know, logically it must be.  Maybe we need to compare those with other lucids.  If we can pinpoint what is missing, we can better understand the dreamy feeling.

I know what you mean about the non dreamy lucids. They are also clearer and I usually have more control in them, I feel less... druggy? Maybe the clear lucids are just ones that we have smack bang in the middle of a REM stage. The ones that I`ve become lucid right from the start from noticing that dreamy feeling, I believe are at the start or end of a REM cycle.

Quote from: Luminous on April 17, 2008, 10:23:57 AM I've had lucid dreams since I was 3.

The start of the dream is always a bit fuzzy, unless it's a spontaneous WILD. I usually won't remember it starting until the scene is "set". I sleep 7-9 hours a night. Usually 7 1/2 on work nights, I have a regular sleep cycle that I keep us as good as I can even on weekends.

When I wake up in the morning, I know that I'm awake because it feels real. Also, I'm aware of the hypnagogic and hypnapomic state, so I feel my consciousness shift as I wake up, and start to fall asleep.

Okay I think these things are important.

1. Your dreams start of fuzzy. This could be a great indicator of being in a dream from the word go. If you only remembered the dream as being clear like the non dreamy dreams, (like myself) then how would you tell that it is a dream?

2. You have a regular sleep cycle. This means that your REM cycle is probably at the same time most nights. I guess then, your mind would become used to the process of fuzzy=dream=lucid etc.

3.You are aware of the conciousness shift How are you aware of the shift? Maybe similar to the way we are aware of the shift when we WILD, but you do it all the time.

Haha these are just random ideas with no scientific backing so please share your ideas

I also usually intuitively feel the dream state. It's kind of like jumping into a pool blind; you just know you're in the water and you start swimming instinctively. This is the point I'm at with my lucid dreaming right now.

I usually don't have to consciously go "Oh I'm dreaming."--Although the last week or so I've tested that by saying it out loud to myself in several dreams, and I always do so it doesn't seem necessary to actually tell myself it's a dream anymore.

Many of my dreams start out fuzzy, but some of them start out vivid, too. If it's a lucid dream I'm almost always lucid from the get-go: once I'm able to think anything at all, I start thinking about flying or exploring (always the first things I do). That's the thing: my best lucids feel the least vague and dreamlike. I could argue that they feel more real than real life at times.

So basically--and this is just my opinion, since of course it's likely to be a little different for everyone--I think that the "just knowing" comes not from the dream environment, but from the fact that the dreamer is used to constantly monitoring their own consciousness. When they sense a change in consciousness--first the loss of consciousness or shifts which occur for a WILD or going into a sleep state--they instinctively know that they must not be in a normal waking state.

I'll try to actually be aware of how clear my dreams start out and exactly when I get lucid over the next couple of nights and then come back to post it...because it's very hard to be accurate right now since I don't really think about those LD aspects.

The biggest thing for me, I think, is that the RCs I used in the beginning were not just simple "Am I dreaming" ones that I can dismiss easily. When I did RCs I would consciously remember how I got where I was, what I was last doing, and most importantly, whether or not those things made logical sense. If I'd gotten to the island by riding on a magical unicorn and the last thing I remembered doing before that was going to bed, I knew I was dreaming.

Woo hoo! Naiya's here.  With you and Luminous combined, we will figure this out for sure

Naiya, we should work together to find similarities and such with our lucidity.

Yes we should.

So last night I tried to be conscious of when I usually get lucid. I had...three LDs last night that I remember.

The first one I was lucid pretty much the moment I was dreaming or conscious enough to think. Also, it was pretty damn weird so that helped. But in this one it was a lot like Luminous' experiences where as the dream became more clear so did my lucidity.

In the second two I didn't become lucid until about halfway through. Normally I start out lucid so that's pretty weird. But in those two LDs there was a very clear realization of me going "OH I'm dreaming!" The second two were not dreamy dreams, and they had to do with my family and friends instead of the regular DCs or strangers, so I think that's why it took me so long. So it seems that the dream intuition only works for dreams that are a little more hazy and typically dream-like. But that's just my tentative theory for now.

Yes, you guys are doing great, you're giving me a lot of hope.  I really thought this should be possible, but since it wasn't happening I was starting to doubt it.  Also, until I met you two, I didn't know anybody whom it had happened to yet.  Now I know it is possible, and may even happen for me, and anyone else who puts in the effort.

Thanks a lot for sharing, both of you, it means a lot.

Naiya, have you been having frequent LDs since childhood also, or did you develop your skill?

As MB said, it gives some great hope.

Quote from: StephenT on April 25, 2008, 08:33:12 PMNaiya, have you been having frequent LDs since childhood also, or did you develop your skill?

As MB said, it gives some great hope.

I had them like...maybe once every few months if that. I didn't really know what they were. When I was about 12 my mom, who was getting her MA in Psychology, mentioned lucid dreaming and meditation. She gave me a basic meditation (a relaxation technique, really), and told me just to repeat to myself "I will have a lucid dream" and that's pretty much all I had to go on, lol. So it took me until at least high school to get to the point of having LDs a few times a week, and gradually I just had them more frequently.

So don't get discouraged even if it takes months or years, especially if your goal is to LD nightly.

So, you basically just meditated and repeated that daily?

Did this get you to the level were you are now, or did you find out more about it and practice different techniques also?

I don't get discouraged too easy.

This thread has me totally hooked.

Here are a couple of ideas, mixed in with a few points mentioned above.

We are creatures of habit. Once we&#39re &#8220adult&#8221, we do things mostly the way we&#39ve done them before. Changing a habit is not as easy as it sounds.

If I&#39m walking down the street, or washing dishes, or running on the treadmill, or waiting for a bus, I&#39ll usually be lost in thought. I&#39ll be mulling over what I have to do later, the next day, what I did yesterday, remembering and analyzing something someone said to me, thinking about my annoying neighbor and his barking dog, checking out a cute chick who just walked by... Stuff like that. This is usual way in which my mind functions.

While I&#39m all wrapped up in these sorts of thoughts, I&#39ll probably miss things such as... subtle changes of light due to the arrival of clouds, a slight change in temperature, a bird singing in a tree. I guess, as Moonbeam said above, this is due to the fact that most of my waking life is spent on autopilot. Come to think of it, this realization makes me shudder.

Now, as this is my habit during the day, the chances are I&#39ll carry this frame of mind into my dreams. So... in my dreams the chances are that I won&#39t notice the &#8220dreamy quality&#8221 of my surroundings, and... I&#39ll not realize I&#39m dreaming, and... I&#39ll not get lucid, and... I&#39ll wake up the next morning wondering why the hell lucidity is so elusive...

The Buddhists do indeed go on and on about &#8220mindfulness&#8221. The describe in really simple terms how we can be more aware of our surroundings just by being less wrapped up in our thoughts, worries, and obsessions during the day.

So, my hypothesis is this: maybe a big step towards more lucidity in my dreams could come about if I develop a fundamentally new frame of mind during the day: less auto-pilot & constant flows of though, more (in fact constant) observation of what&#39s around me and greater awareness of what&#39s actually happening (could it even be called &#8220one long reality check&#8221?).

Right now I can do this for short periods of time (in fact switching from one state of mind to the other is vaguely similar to switching from &#8220non-lucid&#8221 to &#8220lucid&#8221 in the dream state.) What&#39s amazing is how easy it is to slip OUT of this &#8220more aware&#8221 state of mind.

Fundamentally modifying my frame of mind is a pretty ambition goal... But I&#39d like to try and maintain this more aware frame of mind, hoping that it will become a habit, maybe even my &#8220new&#8221, &#8220normal&#8221 frame of mind, and... see if it leads me towards a lot more lucidity in dreams. Humm... could be a lot of hard work though. But if it means 150 lucids a month, well, that reward seems more that worth it.

Cool thread. Awesome ideas being passed around

Quote from: pj on April 17, 2008, 10:21:31 PMPeople who learn things very young and excel at them, I've found, have often simply found a novel way to think about something.  It is usually incredibly challenging to find out what that way of thinking IS, because the individual has been thinking that way for so long without conscious intervention that it becomes very challenging to analyze.

I hate that. You guys have no idea how hard it is to not only realize what we're doing but put it to words. I mean, it's a double whammy. First, most things associated with dreaming are conceptual meaning they simply can't be described with words and second of all, most naturals do these things that can't be described with words, automatically. To put it in context, imagine somebody who didn't know how to move their legs asked you how to walk. Your best answer would be along the lines of "well, you just sort of move move your legs in a walking motion". "How do you move your legs?" "Well, I don't really know." And then the third whammy to this is that before the person asked how to move their legs, you never really realized there was anything special about the fact that you were moving your legs at all. Thus, you never thought about trying to describe or think about it.

I'm pretty sure the "dream feeling" is conceptual to the most part. In other words, it is impossible to describe with mere words, just as moving you legs are. What does this mean? Well, to alot of you that may make it sound alot harder and hopeless but consider this: every toddler can be taught how to walk. You simply just don't use words to describe how to do it.

I want you to stop for a second and consider what words can describe. They can describe any output from the 5 senses and in a rudimentary way, they can express emotion. Now, I want, you to consider what the dream world is composed of. This is a touchy subject but a good model would be to say the dream world is composed of everything we know about the objects contained within it. If you don't agree with that, it's safe to say that the dream world is composed of more then just what we get from our five sense. Thus I propose that the "dream feeling" is quite simply everything outside the scope of our senses and emotions and thus, outside our ability to describe it in words and through that, beyond our normal ability to critically analyze and teach.

I think I'll stop there and collect thoughts =O

Little question to Lumi and Naiya. How often do you say "this is a dream" or do you just know? Take a quick peek at my dream level definitions http://dreamviews.com/community/showthread.php?t=36173. Do you normally hit full lucid or would you say you often hit my definition of semi-lucid? Not for any judgment's sake but rather so we can all be on the same page more easily.

Good points, Arby, what you say reminds me of a Buddhist story about a fish meeting a turtle, underwater.

&#8220Hello&#8221, says the fish, &#8220I&#39ve not seen you around for a while &#8211 where have you been?&#8221. The turtle explains that she&#39s been up on dry land for a while, laying eggs. The fish asks what &#8220dry land&#8221 is, and the turtle tries to explain it&#39s a place with no water, only air, where you walk (or crawl (what is it turtles do, anyway?)). The fish remains totally baffled.

The point is that there are some things that cannot be explained &#8211 only experienced. (How to describe an orgasm to someone who&#39s never had one?...).

So I guess the point isn&#39t trying to get the fish to understand concepts that mean nothing to him, but showing him the way to the beach, then explaining how he can evolve into a semi-amphibious being. And hey presto, a million years later, maybe this fish will have legs.

Not sure I want to wait that long before having more LDs though, but I&#39m sure that naturals can help a lot by pointing in the right direction...

(By the way, I&#39m not a Buddhist (or an anything-ist), but I do have a cool Buddha statue).

To Arby: I'd say my dreams range from 70% to 110% on your scale, though my lucidness doesn't quite fit on the scale. I can be lucid on a subconscious level (semi lucid), but still have some control. And if I'm fully lucid, I can always control it.

I do think and hope that Naiya and me can point you in the right direction. I need to catch Naiya in DV chat...

3&4, you're pretty much touching on Dream Yoga.  It's also known to give people tons of lucids.

Luminous, yes!

Last night, I got lucid and examined and tried to get used to recognizing the dreamy feeling for a bit.  Lets see if that did anything tonight.

Great, Stephen!

You know, those of you who don't have lucid dreams every night have an advantage compared to me. It's easier for you to do tasks (like remembering to explore the dreamy feeling). I guess that's because you associate lucidity with having your task. I've never done lucid tasks until recently, and it's a challenge for me to remember doing tasks! Even when having a high level of lucidity, I don't even remember that I have a task. I don't give it any thought, because I'm used to do whatever I want to right there and then when lucid. I am getting a bit better at task-doing, though.

Quote from: Luminous on April 27, 2008, 01:16:11 PMI do think and hope that Naiya and me can point you in the right direction. I need to catch Naiya in DV chat...

hehe.. I'm already a natural, luv. I got my own little system for lucidity (which may include LILD, to some extent, i'm not quite sure)

Quote from: Luminous on April 27, 2008, 01:16:11 PMTo Arby: I'd say my dreams range from 70% to 110% on your scale, though my lucidness doesn't quite fit on the scale. I can be lucid on a subconscious level (semi lucid), but still have some control. And if I'm fully lucid, I can always control it. Alright, and heres the follow up question: Which motivations do you pursue in a dream such as that(semi)? The motivations that are beneficial for your dream self(following the dream) or the motivations for your waking self(such as having fun and flying for excitement and stuff)?

Quote from: Luminous on April 27, 2008, 01:25:41 PMGreat, Stephen!

You know, those of you who don't have lucid dreams every night have an advantage compared to me. It's easier for you to do tasks (like remembering to explore the dreamy feeling). I guess that's because you associate lucidity with having your task. I've never done lucid tasks until recently, and it's a challenge for me to remember doing tasks! Even when having a high level of lucidity, I don't even remember that I have a task. I don't give it any thought, because I'm used to do whatever I want to right there and then when lucid. I am getting a bit better at task-doing, though.

ah, you replied while I was typing and you may have partially answered my question there... I feel the exact same ways about tasks except I never actually try them =P

Quote from: Arby on April 27, 2008, 11:37:34 AM If you don't agree with that, it's safe to say that the dream world is composed of more then just what we get from our five sense. Thus I propose that the "dream feeling" is quite simply everything outside the scope of our senses and emotions and thus, outside our ability to describe it in words and through that, beyond our normal ability to critically analyze and teach. That seems like a crucial point.  In away this relates to not being on auto-pilot and trying to be more aware, because IRL we often assume that we know more than we do too.  It's a lot more efficient way to live, of course: but is the opposite of what you want to do to begin to  realize your state of being more often.

Arby: A little bit of both. When "semi"-lucid, I usually go with the dream, or simply get carried away with the dream, conveniently manipulating the dream if I'm not content with the way it's going. When I then manipulate something, it's my awake self taking over. Also, my level of lucidity can change throughout the dream, that often happens with the first dream(s) during the night.

And I didn't know you were a natural. How often do you have lucid dreams?

Luminous, there's a thread somewhere about spontaneity, but I haven't followed it in a while.  Maybe you should pop in there.

I had an idea in there, where whenever you do reality checks in real life, instead of just saying, "Is this a dream?", say, "Is this a dream?  What did I want to do in a dream?  Oh yeah, I wanted to go skydiving!"

Also, sometime during the day, visualize yourself getting lucid, followed by taking time to think about tasks.

Either way, it's associating and conditioning yourself to try to remember tasks once lucid, instead of running off and doing whatever is readily available.

Aha!  Found it, after some searching.

Impulsitivity

Quote from: Luminous on April 27, 2008, 01:39:59 PMArby: A little bit of both. When "semi"-lucid, I usually go with the dream, or simply get carried away with the dream, conveniently manipulating the dream if I'm not content with the way it's going. When I then manipulate something, it's my awake self taking over. Also, my level of lucidity can change throughout the dream, that often happens with the first dream(s) during the night.

And I didn't know you were a natural. How often do you have lucid dreams?

Awesome to see that you have "semi" experiences quite like mine =P I live for those things.

How often do I get LDs? I don't really count. I'm really the type of person that goes crazy about lucidity an pursues it and everything related to it to no end. I have a little system that I use that gives me a decent amount of lucid time. Every day, I have to get up between about 7:10 and 7:30 to get ready for school. What I do is set my alarm for 6:50. This gives me 30 mins of prime DEILD type time before I wake up. I use this time to a) finish up a dream I just woke from with an epic ending b) If I just met a new hot girl or something... well.... =P c) think about the day before me/organize thoughts d) actually get up and have extra time in the morning =P

As I often shoot 70% naturally, I often just go with (a) and give it a really epic full lucid closure (I HATE when fun dreams don't get closure =/). I use a bit of VILD and BAM, instant dream again =P Of course, the problem with this is that it stops me from remembering previous dreams that night or sometimes even the very, very beginning of the current dream (especially if it's a lengthly non-sequiter) This is part of the reason I don't keep a dream journal either. Too much work anyways for little payoff in my eyes. I'm happy with my setup =P