I thought I'd start this section as I find it interesting that and do not laugh - CHEESE - makes me have the strangest dreams ! It started with a friend at work who mentioned, for a second time, that he had the weirdest dreams after he had eaten a big block of cheese before bedding it. He is not into his dreams, but it made me want to try it offcourse (I'll try anything, even if it is strange and cheesy) hehe

I guess I'm not going rant and rave about how fantastic my dreams were that night, but they were a little long and VERY distinct, perhaps simply a coincidence .... but I believe that it could be helping dream If even I believe it alone - at least it helps me

'Awaiting the big one always, Daniel

I am able to remember more dreams and they seem to have an increased surreal content when I fast. A 3 day fast is my last experience in which I noted this experience. Anyone else have interesting dreams when fasting?

Kevin,

I don't generally fast, but the last month I've gone on a bit of a diet, doing more exercise, cut down on the alcohol a bit and I found initially that I slept like a baby, had more difficulty remembering my dreams and few LDs. The dreams are coming back now.

BTW I agree with you about the cheese. If I snack on it before I go to bed (which I'm not supposed to do now) I feel sure I have more vivid dreams.

I'm afriad to say also that my records are showing that drinking alcohol (say 5-6 units) at social events soes definitely increase the chance of an LD. Don't always get them but I do think the chance increases.

Typically I sleep like a log for 5 hours, then wake up maybe with very slight hangover, but feel uncomfortable and - here I think is the key thing - wide awake. I think this together with the REM rebound I get after the alcohol increases the chance of an LD.

I was thinking of trying a double scotch or couple of glasses of wine half hour before going to bed sometimes, though I'm not too keen on drinking just for this reason.

Any body tried caffeine after 5 hours sleep.

Owen

Owen,

As an on-call freight pilot, I live on nicotine, caffein, ephedrine....

I think you are on the right track about alcohol. Not because alcohol induces lucids, but what happens is the mind is still more awake, while the body relaxes into sleep. Especially in the later hours.

If you wish to try something to help induce dreams/lucids/obe's etc. Try Melotonine. This is a natural body substance which basicaly tells the body "your tired, go to sleep." It's available at any place that sells vitamins, and has no negative effects. I know a lot of night freight pilots who use it to induce sleep when they get to the hotel, and have to sleep during the day...more significantly, I know many who WONT use it becuase they report having "weird dream experiences."

Skypony,

Interesting comments about melatonin, I'm not sure whether it's available over the counter in the UK.

I smoke and inhale tobacco cigars some evenings and I also had the suspicion that they helped to induce lucids, again it's the question of tired body and alert mind.

Owen

Owen,

Please don't misunderstand me I use a lot of caffein, nicotine, and ephedrin simply because my average work day is 12 hours long, and starts without warning any time of the day or night (hehehe).

I have no idea about the above substances helping or hindering lucids.

But yes, we do concur on the point of being mind awake, body asleep. Melotonine is a natural substance the body produces which basically triggers a mechanism in you to sleep. Pilots find it very helpful because even in their weird schedules, weather they are tired or not, they have only so much time alloted for crewrest before they have to go fly again. So sometimes we have to be able to relax, and sleep, even if we don't really feel quite ready to sleep. Melotonine helps relax the body, and induce a natural state of sleep (not like a drug). but since the mind is still refreshed, and not tired, very interesting experiences are quite common.

I have no idea of the situation of obtaining Melotonine in other countries, but in the US, it is as cheap, and available as Vitamin C.

Actually, I have never tried using melotonin to induce a state where lucidity in dreams is more likely. I always used it because whether it was day or night, we only had 9 hours in the hotel to get some sleep before we had to fly again!

Perhaps I'll give it a try sometime, hunting for lucids, and report what I experience here.(sometime when I am NOT actually exhausted and need some help falling asleep! - case in point, just got back from another trip, it's 2:30 am, and I've been up now for 23 hours)

Vitamin B-6 may increase dream vividness and recall. I got the following abstract from a premedline search:

Title Effects of pyridoxine on dreaming: a preliminary study.

Source Perceptual & Motor Skills. 94(1):135-40, 2002 February.

Abstract The effect of pyridoxine (Vitamin B-6) on dreaming was investigated in a placebo, double-blind study to examine various claims that Vitamin B-6 increases dream vividness or the ability to recall dreams. 12 college students participated in all three treatment conditions, each of which involved ingesting either 100 mg B-6, 250 mg B-6, or a placebo prior to bedtime for a period of five consecutive days. The treatment conditions were completely counterbalanced and a two-day wash-out period occurred between the three five-day treatment blocks. Morning self-reports indicated a significant difference in dream-salience scores (this is a composite score containing measures on vividness, bizarreness, emotionality, and color) between the 250-mg condition and placebo over the first three days of each treatment. The data for dream salience suggests that Vitamin B-6 may act by increasing cortical arousal during periods of rapid eve movement (REM) sleep. An hypothesis is presented involving the role of B-6 in the conversion of tryptophan to serotonin. However, this first study needs to be replicated using the same procedures and also demonstrated in a sleep laboratory before the results can be considered certain.

I have found that Ginko Biloba before sleep increases dream recall as well as the "bizarre" quotient...

B-6 has worked well for me in increasing my dream recall. Dosage I use is 100-200mg. LaBerge first turned me on to this and it works well. I think P.Garfield made reference to B-6 almost 30yrs ago...

-- Dominick

D:

I started using B-6 recently and it did make my dream recall more consistent. Also had a really strange experience last night which may or may not be related to the vitamin. I was in the middle of a dream, and during one segment I started to think to myself "I've had this dream before!" A kind of deja vu within a dream. The fact is, of course, I don't consciously remember ever having had that dream episode before, tho it's possible. Anybody else have this experience?

dw

Dominick

Regarding the dream-recall, Are you taking the B-6 once before bed, or once a day normally?

myles

200mg before bed. also occasionally take DMAE 325mg for an extra lucid punch. a bit of a stimulant though.

-- Dominick

Dominick

What exactly is DMAE? Full name?

Doug

di-methyl-amino-ethanol Bitartrate.

can be found at most health food/suppliment stores.

Dominick

I just tried B6 last night. 250mg before bedtime. I woke up (as usual) and used the restroom about 6 hours later and took another 200mg. Ironically, I couldn't remember anything from my dreams! Fortunately, B6 has a broad range of safe dosage (Dr. Atkins recommends up to 1500mg!). I think tonight I'll try 450mg before bedtime.

Wow! big difference. I took 450mg before bed last night and ended up remembering maybe every dream! I kept waking up, but I felt like I was completely rested. It happened maybe 5 times. I imagine it was as I was exiting rem into a lighter stage of sleep. That would explain the ease in waking up and the ability to remember so much of each dream. Anyway, tonight I'm going to take the 450mg before bed but this time I'm also going to wear my novadreamer. My hypothesis (and hope) is that the b6 will make me alert enough to recognize the signal, something that has been a problem for me in the past.

Good luck Colin. (I have found that a dose of more than 500mg overstimulates my mind and I end up unable to sleep)

For what it is worth: I've tried 250mg B6 at bedtime & also found it to double the likelyhood of a LD. (of the 30 nights I tried it, I had 3 DL & normally would average 1-2 DL in 30 nights) The downside I've found is that after awakening at 3 AM or so & practicing MILD for 20 min. I about half the time I can't fall asleep for an hour or more. This can be anyoing & inconvenant and not practical to do night after night or I'll be nodding off during the day.

I too wake up in the night when I take the b6. I haven't had trouble getting back to sleep though. I seem to wake up 3 hours after I take the b6. Next time I'm going to set my alarm three hours before I have to wake up and take the b6 then. My hypothesis is that the b6 will help me go lucid during this lighter sleeping.

Hi,

Thought I'd post this for the benefit of other dreamers who use marijuana.

The Effect of Marijuana on Rem Sleep

Feinberg I, Jones R, Walker JM, Cavness C, March J Electroencephalographic readings and eye movement were recorded in experienced marijuana users under placebo and tetrahydrocannabinol (THC). Four subjects were studied for 3 baseline nights, 3 nights under initial dosage of 70 mg/day, the last 3 nights of a 2-wk period of 210 mg/day, and the first 3 nights of withdrawal. Three other subjects were studied only during the latter 2 conditions.

Administration of THC significantly reduced eye movement activity during sleep with rapid eye movements (REM) and, to a lesser extent, the duration of REM itself.

full article at: http://www.cerebral.org/Maps/msg00306.html

Goodbye old friend! I'd thought you were relatively benign but I don't want anything to interfere with my rem state!

Bye the way, thanks for the tip on B-6.

-Quinn

Not too sure how relevant this is now as the original post by Daniel Del Piccolo was quite a while ago and I'm sure most of you are more than aware of these facts.

Yet, as regards the original post on cheese it has that effect on dreams due to its protein content. The average cheese (Cheddar et al) has about 25g's of Protein per 100g serving. This is about the same as the average processed meat.

Eating a meal heavy in protein before sleep can often means vivid enough dreams to wake you up. This is a problem body builders have as they're recommended to take protein shakes before sleep as that's when the muscles deteriorate etc..

I once tried an experiment with protein and dream vividness taking about 100g of protein before sleep. The dreams were certainly more vivid and I awoke often during the night after a period of REM with almost perfect dream recall. However I had to discontinue experiments as waking up on an Ultradian rythm seriously started to interfere with work.. Oh well...

It's worth a go. More experienced lucid dreamers should be able to make better use of it.

As for B6 it increases blood flow in the brain and can aid memory. Interesting applications in dream recall and lucid dreaming. I look forward to reading more of you posts.

Thanks, Andy.

Oh, Adam, that's lame about the herb. Whereas I don't partake with such appetite as I had as a teen and early 20's, I still like to have a taste once or twice a week. It's been esp. challinging to get lucid for the last few months and so, anything to get juicily lucid, I too, bid my ganja deva sister Namaste and Adieu. A. Mood indigo. B.Onward towards the light, YAY!

p.s.What's ultradian rhythm and why does it say I've posted me words at 5:30 a.m. Moonday? It's 9:24 p.m.Sunday night in Mendocino County, CA.

Sorry, an ultradian rythm in this sense is referring to the ninety minute stages of sleep where you peak in REM then return to deeper delta sleep.

Thanks, Andy, nevermind. If I had been doing my homework a wee bit more thoroughly, I wouldn't have asked.

Tiffany, you are referring to Universal Time (AKA Greenwich Mean Time, or GMT). What time is it really when you post at 21:24PST? To readers in Europe, it's 8 or 9 hours later, i.e., the next day (05:24GMT or so); to readers in Hawaii, it's 2 or 3 hours earlier (depending on whether it's PST or PDST). There is no such thing as absolute time, unless it's NOW.

Ultradian Rhythms are as Andy says. But that's a time of another color entirely. And this is a strange Diet indeed!

PS

Hi, Dreamers.

Finally, I've had a lucid dream again of longer than just a few moments. Lucid dreaming has become less frequent for me in recent years, for reasons probably having to do with the March of Time, and the resulting differences in my biochemistry. But I love lucid dreaming, and I miss it, so I'm working hard to get it back into my life.

It took some effort. First of all, lately I've been thinking a lot more about lucid dreaming again, acting on this interest by writing posts again to the Lucidity Institute Forum. I do this because I like to participate, but I also think this helps focus my attention on the subject and pave the way to my lucidity. I've also been trying to do honest reality-tests during the day, and write more regularly in my dream journal. I would like to use the DreamLight again too, but it's been so long I'll need to re-read all the instructions first. This sounds like a good project for this weekend.

One action that helped make this lucid dream happen was getting up at three in the morning and drinking some Tang (r) breakfast drink. Yes, Tang" the drink of astronauts, can be the drink of oneironauts as well! Some time ago I discovered this sort of thing works pretty well for me, but I hadn't done it in a while. Believe it or not, based on long personal experience, this stimulation really helps my chances of having a lucid dream dramatically. It must be the sugar that does it, by revving things up somehow, but I like that it has vitamin C as well, which certainly doesn't hurt brain function. I'm also aware that just getting up and being awake for a time helps my chances of lucidity, too. I've also used those instant sugary coffee drinks as well, with caffeine stepping in to help alongside the sugar. A third method I've used is caffeine alone, in the form of tea with no sugar. All these techniques seem to help me personally in my quest for lucidity. The risk with a caffeine product, as you might imagine, is you might not fall asleep again before the caffeine kicks in.

I'm not proposing that people abandon those primary techniques for attaining lucidity. (And I do know that caffeine and sugar aren't the healthiest things in the world if you overdo them). The most important factors are definitely those described in the literature by the pioneers of the field. These tricks I've rediscovered wouldn't be effective without my also using the basic techniques of reality-testing, keeping a journal, and so forth. There might be some idiosyncratic reasons why these stimulants help me, and they might not have the same effect on others.

But it worked. This morning I had a really great lucid dream that lasted quite a while. Hurrah!

Reverie

Brenda:

Your Tang/astronaut comments were somewhat synchronistic regarding the sad events of the weekend and also tag you as someone of my generation. Perhaps I should give Tang a try! I haven't seen it in the grocery stores years though.

I have to say that Andy Dalton's suggestion of the B6 at bedtime has generated more dreaming for me [albeit, not lucid yet. I'm still working on consistency]. On the nights that I've taken the 50 mgs of B6 at bedtime, I've had an increase in remembered dreaming.

Paul

Hi

i recently joined the forum and after looking around i decided to share somehting i inadvertently found out the other week - you know how those nicorette gum commercials criticize the transdermal nicotine for "sleep disturbances" well my advice is that if you decide to quit smoking USE THESE PATCHES and put them on like an hour befor bed - or take a nap in the afternoon after putting on a new one - those of us who are experienced in "disturbing " our sleep in the LD arena might find that the experience is quite pleasurable and with much sucess - anyway - i induced the same dream scenario no less than six times the first time i used the 21mg nicoderm patch - and i did not read the warning label till te next day and thot to myself hmmm...

now of course i do not recommmend these products for those of you who do not already smoke - but the effect has been consistent with me and so i felt i should share it with you all

see you on the inside

jeff

Dear Jeff,

Welcome to Forum! Of more interest for this particular discussion site would be a description of the lucidity you experienced in the six "same dream scenarios". Please fill us in on the ways in which you knew you were dreaming and what you chose to do with your dream awareness.

Splendid dreams to all, Keelin

Jeff, in my opinion what you need to do now is to try to grasp the feeling you had with the patches then try try to reproduce that feeling without the patches. Owen

well,

For several years now i have been tracking and writing up the evening dreamtime events i have. and for as long as i can recall during that time i have been able to just go into controlling the events (ok most of the time ) - or rather -

• if i am in the mood - oh and to clarify - this went on long before the patching - hehe - anyway - pre sleep conditioning and focusing on say an object or photograph is helpful - but - i would have to say that the single most important thing to do is realize that the "state" of waking and the "state" of dreaming are connected and you don't have to figure out how it happens necessarily to "remember " to pay attention and take control while trying to induce an ld. realizing you are living out existince at all times you are existing - even while what we call "sleeping" may be helpful as well.

for advice on how i have gotten to this point i will eventually have to publish a book -but one example of a direction that i eventually found answers in - the problem of thinking to much and breaking apart the whole process you know into say a beginning middle and end - led to some interesting data..

example - i tried to find the "beginning" of sleeping consciousness and it was loud

• the feeling on the way in when you become like a bag of microwave popcorn and that sound that started as a white noise of tv static turns into YOU vibrating and exploding - being understood to mean something other than what it is - a noisy street our minds share - probably is not going to help - but its important to explore that "area" i guess. don't mistake the roads for the trip i guess and think more about how you spend your time at all times - becoming more aware of your circumstances - and that eventually carries over into "dreamtime"

thanks if you had the patience to read this but i have re written it five times now and i hope i got something across

jeff

DMAE (dimethyl-amino-ethanol) is a chemical substance similar to choline. It has been known to increase intelligence, memory, learning, and the vividness of dreams. It is a mild stimulant that should be taken in the early part of the day, and may be used in combination with lecithin and B6 for optimal benefit. Typically, you want to start with a relatively small dosage, such as 100mg, and increase it incrementally to up to about 500mg. It really does work, and it can be found in many vitamin stores and even your everyday grocery store if you're lucky. In Europe it goes by the name of Deanol. Sweet dreams!

Greetings

In the USA you can get it at GNC. $8 (marked down from $10) a bottle, and $5 for triple lechitin.

Preliminary results after two nights are very encouraging. It seems to have brought the fogged out part of my dreaming cycle to an end early.

You might also want to try Valerian root. It increases dream recall.

Melatonin will do the trick. It makes dreams more vivid.

FYI,

After some experimentation with herbal "brain medicines" I've narrowed my diet down to the following...

Ginkgo Biloba Lecithin St. John's Wort DMAE 5-HTP Melatonin Multi-Vitamin (with plenty of B vitamins)

One capsule of each, distributed throughout the evening before bed. I've noticed no adverse side effects but believe that vividness of my dreams, and correspondingly, my dream recall is at an all time high.

I have not tried the Velerian Root. From what I've seen, it is supposed to be a relaxer and sleep enhancer. I'm not sure if a combination of Valerian, St. John's Wort and Melatonin will zonk me out too much. After all, a little bit of edginess to one's night's sleep is needed if you want to go lucid.

Rich:

Well gosh, I hope your diet includes food and water, too!

Have you considered making an experiment of this and going a few weeks without taking some (or all) of these supplements, just to test whether your dream recall continues to perform regardless of their presence? Who knows? You might find out you do fine on your own, and save yourself a couple of bucks in the process...

Peter

Peter,

I suspect you're right. I believe that once the mind has been trained for dream recall (through the use of supplements let's say), it will become engrained.

I also suspect that a lot of the success is due to the placebo effect. Most of the supplements listed were like a miracle the first day I used them.

Rich M.

It's fall in New York, the Forum is quiet, and not a bad time to rustle a few leaves"

I just took a moment to browse the many posts in this topic, and noticed a recurring theme: despite the myriad diets, supplements, and assorted chemicals that people have discussed as dream enhancers, none bring about lucidity itself.

It seems that everything from Tang to cheese (!) to melatonin to nicotine to something called di-methyl-amino-ethanol-bitartrate (which sounds more likely to be poured into my car's gas tank than my gullet) has some ingredient that, if taken in the proper proportions and at just the right time, will help dreams become unnaturally vivid, and perhaps make them more easily remembered.

I offer no argument for or against the use of food, supplements, drugs, and multi-syllabic-hyphenated-acronymed chemical compounds as tools toward improving the dream experience and recall. Indeed, I pop the occasional B-6 pills myself before bedtime. No, what I want to discuss is that I noticed that one common statement ranged through all of the posts, and that one was glaringly missing: present was that these substances enhance dreams, make them more vivid or memorable; missing was any real mention that they make it more easy to become lucid in a dream.

Why do I care? I'm not sure if I do, really ' an enhanced dreaming experience in any form is always a positive step to me, even should it involve some risk (some of those drugs can be fairly gnarly, or addictive, so be sure to keep your eyes open and your wits about you when sampling them!). But this forum is about lucid dreaming and, even if all of the aids listed in these posts work as, um, prescribed, I can't help but wonder if these supplements actually hinder the lucid dreaming experience.

I would assume that a dream with enhanced vividness would, by definition, seem more real to the dreamer than might a typical dream sans enhancement. That's fine, except that the primary moment of lucidity is the awareness that an experience is not real. There is a chance that drug-induced vividness may make the dream too interesting, too tangible ' too real ' for the dreamer to come to the conscious conclusion that she is dreaming. Indeed, a particularly vivid dream might simply be too much fun as is, so why bother becoming lucid?

All of these enhancers (and any others I'm aware of) assume that the dreamer is already able to achieve lucidity. Sure, a more vivid dream is a most excellent prospect, provided that lucidity is assured, especially if that improvement leads to a longer, perhaps deeper experience. However, if lucidity is not assured, and the dreamer has not yet mastered techniques for bringing it about at will (and who has?), there might be wisdom in avoiding substances that raise the hurdle of reaching lucidity by making the dream itself more exciting.

One last thing, in case I missed firing someone up ' I firmly believe that the dreaming mind is fully capable of convincing a dreamer that he is having a lucid dream, even when he is in no way consciously aware of the dream. Call it dreaming that you are having a lucid dream. This sort of dream would occur, for instance, when an unconscious mind obliges the oft-repeated waking wishes of a person who deeply desires a lucid dream experience, but has yet to master the discipline necessary to achieve one. Supplements that increase the dreaming experience might only empower this trick, and then cap it off with a stronger memory of the experience. There is a chance, I suppose, that a dreamer initially tricked by his own mind into dreaming of having a lucid dream would only compound the problem by enhancing the experience. Plus, that enhancement might lead the dreamer to believe that what she experienced was a lucid dream, and thus push the true experience of lucid dreaming even further out of reach.

If anyone is still with me at this point, feel free to share your opinion on the subject.

The Best Of Dreams,

Peter

Wow I am sure that is going to ruffle a few feathers Peter.

I guess in this modern age of convenience, we are always looking for ingenious ways to make things happen faster or more effectively.

Some of our inventions have served us better than others. I guess it is also true of pills, medicines, even surgery. Some are breakthroughs, others have side effects. I guess us humans want it all and we want it now. But some things can be counter productive - more haste less speed eh.

Things are moving on though, and time honoured skills are dying fast. How many would be prepared to take a life time honing Zen like skills, if instead they could just pop a pill. I wonder if that could ever become a reality for things like Lucid Dreaming, Meditation etc. Or is it the long Quest that gives it its value.

No feathers ruffled here. As I mentioned in a message earlier "I suspect that a lot of the success is due to the placebo effect" of these herbal drugs. It is the belief system as it applies to lucid dreaming in effect here.

In addition to taking these brain medications, I have paralleled that with a healthier attitude towards all things that I put into my body. For example, no more illicit "herb", no more cigarettes, no excessive drinking, better sleep habits, etc. These positive changes that promote a healthy mind and body are a definite aid (if not an essential requirement) to better dream recall and the ability to attain lucidity.

Deprogram my brain? that's my second favorite organ!

(Woody Allen, the Sleeper)

Hi Peter,

Thanks for your thought-provoking post. So how exactly do vividness and awareness relate? What happens when vividness is enhanced in our waking lives? Things may seem more perceptually clear, but is that the same as having a clear sense of our true state? The light may be on, but is anyone home?

In my dreaming experiences, vividness and bizarreness often have a close relationship. Enhanced vividness may easily capture my attention -- and we know what happens in Dreamland when our focus zeros in on something. (Well, I know what happens in some people's dreams, but would certainly like to hear more from others on this particular topic).

While the behavior of dream elements may be tied to expectations gathered from our perception of how the waking world operates, these elements remain effectively unrestrained by that external world, and naturally lend themselves to aberrant behavior. Of course, observations alone of bizarreness won't cause lucidity. Haven't we all been there (with the lights on and no one home)? But perhaps there is a bizarreness threshold that may encourage lucidity -- if we've properly prepared ourselves to recognize it. If this is so, then enhanced vividness within the dream may lead to increased bizarreness, and perhaps to an easier recognition of our dreaming state.

The bottom line is, as you've noted in other words, Peter, that we must know what a dream is in order to recognize when we're in one. All the more reason to become familiar with our own recurring dream themes and personal styles of dancing in the Land of Odd.

I'll leave off here with a quote from the article "Varieties of Lucid Dreaming Experience" by Stephen LaBerge and Don DeGracia (and I heartily encourage anyone who hasn't yet read this article to do so). [http://www.lucidity.com/VOLDE.html]

"Within lucid dreams, typical perceptual environments display a large variety of perceptual qualities. In some the scene is dimly lit or vaguely delineated; others overwhelm the lucid dreamer with their intense beauty and extravagant detail. Some seem, indeed, "more real than real". In general, the average lucid dream is more perceptually vivid than the average nonlucid dream. This conclusion is supported by relatively intense brain activation during lucid dreaming which may correlate with increased perceptual vividness (LaBerge, 1981)."

Vivid dreams to all, -Keelin

Keelin:

You asked how vividness and awareness relate. Based on your excellent comments that follow (and nicely answer) your question, perhaps a stronger question might be: how can it be that they don't relate?

You've already noted how the bizarre ' or perhaps sensually exceptional, to widen the field even more ' can enhance awareness simply by offering us a point on which to focus our attention. But then what?

Picture 500 people boarding a roller coaster ' one of those nasty ones littered with heart stopping loops and inversions. The ride ensues, and all aboard are bombarded with stimuli well beyond their daily experience (and, if the ride is worth the price of admission, well beyond most riders" expectations). In response most just scream or wave their hands about, some are terrified and wait for it to end, a few get sick, unable to physically compensate for the motion, a couple are hungry and wondering when this nonsense is going to end, and one, maybe two, are actually considering the fact that their Self is there too, and the entire universe isn't just this thundering roller coaster -- ironically, these two probably never would have taken the ride in the first place. The ride ends, and 498 people whoop for joy, then immediately leave their incredible moment of visceral stimulation in their past, recalled only as an example for future conversation or proof of bravery. 498 people were able to experience extreme vividness without once being aware of their own conscious position in the moment. In fact, I would argue the roller coaster actually served to help the people forget themselves for just a minute (isn't that why they exist?) ' they would have been better able to be aware of themselves and their environment if sitting quietly in a darkened room. This is not a slight on the 498 people -- they could to a person be good, creative, happy, energetic souls who simply lost themselves to a moment of mechanical excitement.

Awareness is a function of consciousness most people strive to avoid at every point between their cradle and grave. How else can 35 million good people actually watch, and enjoy, "Survivor" on TV? The real question is WHY do they choose to avoid being aware? WHY can they never step back and say, "That's odd?' (That's what's so cool about the oneironauts! They've chosen to take that step and seek awareness during one of life's most stunning and unpredictable roller coasters - dreams! )

I guess my point is that awareness is a decision, and to exercise awareness in waking life is hard enough, but to exercise it in a dream is nearly (but not!) impossible. If we bombard our dreams with artificially enhanced vividness, we may only be compounding the obstacles nature has already placed in front of lucid dreaming, and thus making it a little easier to decide not to be aware. I truly believe that more, not less, mental discipline might be necessary to have a lucid dream when using chemicals to enhance a dream. The dreamer needs to keep the roller coaster from dominating the moment, and that can take quite a bit of Self control.

I do agree though, that if we have that Self control, then the extra vividness would be most welcome and would absolutely enhance the lucid dream!

I'm not sure if this makes sense, and I must stop writing right now anyway -- Halloween beckons. So "nuff said.

Peter.

Hi Peter,

As usual, you've offered several points worthy of consideration. In your comments, you've suggested that "awareness is a decision" and you question why people choose to avoid being aware.

I would venture to say instead that awareness is a state of mind that offers the opportunity for making decisions that reach beyond habitual reaction. I don't believe it's awareness that people are trying to avoid, but rather it may be that the average person is not willing to exert the energy it takes to become and to remain attentive to their state. Perhaps this is because they're not familiar with the rewards of making more conscious choices or of exercising more flexible thinking. How much easier it is to roll with the drama of what seems to be happening around us! And yet while so much of Life functions well enough on automatic (imagine how effortful it would be to have to think about breathing and simple movements, for instance), as we all know, a lack of awareness can greatly impact the outcome of certain situations. I'm sure we can agree that choice is involved here -- and that choice enables decision, and with decision comes responsibility. And how much easier is it to follow someone else's rules and just do what we're told to do or believe? We could wander into a long and interesting conversation on this (how I wish we were sitting once again on that deck at Kalani!), but since I have the feeling we'd be in fair agreement, I'll move on to another point.

You say: "...to exercise awareness in waking life is hard enough, but to exercise it in a dream is nearly (but not!) impossible." I agree that waking life awareness is a challenge, and that in dreams we have a general tendency for foggy headedness, but I think in comparing the two, the ability to become aware will depend more on the circumstances (in either realm) and our skills at becoming self-reflective. And here is a question: Is this skill easier to develop in the dream state where the consequences of our decisions result in immediate and evident form? What do you think about this?

Looking forward to more thoughts on the topic from you (and all!) Keelin

Keelin:

Though my questioning of why people choose to avoid being aware was more of a lament than a query, it does look like we are in general agreement. And yes, this would indeed be an excellent topic for longer discussion (especially in Kalani's so very positive environment)!

Would developing a self-reflective skill be easier during the dream state than waking state? If the circumstance of lucidity were present in the dream, then yes, it would be easier. Indeed, the pursuit of Self is an excellent reason to learn to lucid dream.

But what if there is no lucidity? During a normal dream, that foggy-headedness you mention can be a major obstacle to self-reflectivity, compounded by the dreamer's natural disinterest in knowing she is asleep, and dreaming. So, though the dream world is potentially malleable to the dreamer's desires, that flexibility can only be managed, and appreciated, during a lucid dream (non-lucid dreams can only be appreciated after waking). Without lucidity, there is far less control, and very little conscious decision-making. So even if the dreamworld reacted to a non-lucid dreamer's every thought, those thoughts would be removed enough from his consciousness that he could not appreciate the change.

In the waking world, we often get no feedback for our self-reflective moments, but with a little effort we can produce them at any time regardless, because we can consciously choose to do so without constraint from Nature's (annoying) rules about sleep. Sure, the results of the effort can be vastly more dramatic and educational in a lucid dream, but consciousness is more readily available in the waking world. Would that more people would tap into it!

And hey, this thought has actually brought me back on subject: the supplements and drugs used to enhance dreaming might do just that (enhance dreaming), and the process of doing things like increasing seratonin levels might actually amplify Nature's rules about sleep. If one of Nature's rules reads that the dreamer must not be aware that she is dreaming, then perhaps that rule is amplified as well, and lucidity becomes harder to achieve.

Peter

There are several reasons to believe that the fore mentioned substances do, in fact, improve the dreaming process. However, we will not know with certainty how much each individual substance increases lucid dream frequency until someone performs a LD research experiment on the topic.

Everyone's brain chemistry is a little different. So, if you want to know which substance works best for you, it helps to experiment with each one, one at a time, and keep a record of the results. If you think it might not be a good idea for whatever reason, check with your physician first.

Lecithin, DMAE, and Vitamin B-5 all influence the levels of the neurotransmitter acetylcholine. Acetylcholine plays a vital role in memory, and consequently plays a major role in memory consolidation during REM sleep. Lecithin contains the active ingredient choline as one of its components. Choline is the precursor to acetycholine. It's a good idea to take lecithin with vitamin B-5 so that the choline can be converted into acetylcholine. Research has shown that lecithin and B-5 act synergistically to improve the performance of normal, healthy humans in a variety of intelligence and memory tests. All the B Vitamins (B-Complex) are required to deal with stress and to maintain a healthy nervous system. DMAE, a naturally occuring substance, accelerates the brain's synthesis of acetylcholine and thereby improves mental function. It also helps with ADHD in some individuals. Finally, 5-HTP and melatonin both influence the levels of the neurotransmitter serotonin. Serotonin regulates mood and sleep. If you search around the web for "smart drugs", there will be more information available.

Improved memory and ability to concentrate and perform at an optimal level during my waking day can be considered another beneficial side-effect of taking these substances. They are marketed as smart drugs and I've found them to work for me in that capacity as well as improving my R.E.M. recall.

As you said Andrew, it varies from individual to individual. Experimentation and/or doctor's advice is recommended.

Thanks for your input and providing the background research for us.

Rich M.

Cheese makes for weird dreams because of the tyramine in it. This ingredient raises the level of chemicals that cause high blood pressure. High blood pressure is, in turn, a stress symptom associated with nightmares. There's a book where I'm getting this bit of information from and it's called "Learn to Sleep Well" by Chris Idzikowski. The information on smart drugs, on the other hand, came mostly from "Smart Drugs & Nutrients" by Ward Dean, M.D. and John Morgenthaler. There are two volumes in the Smart Drugs series (I and II).