Hello all. I've been practicing the WILD technique lately, with 4 LDs in a row early this morning. Whenever I'm in the process of crossing that threshold into sleep, I start to feel the bed vibrate, my body feels "tingly", and there's a tremendous noise in my head that sounds like that "blood pressure" noise one hears when they close their eyes tightly while swallowing. I can possibly understand the noise and tingly feeling, but why the sensation of the vibrating bed? Anybody? Thanks for any feedback. BTW, my favorite and most reliable reality test technique has been to count the fingers on my right hand. If there's 12 or so, I can pretty safely bet I can fly. :-)

Respectfully, Brian Jackson

By the way, I have been using my digital watch for some time as a reality check device, especially because it not only beeps, but also lights up when I push it. I keep thinking "NovaDreamer" whenever I see it because it's gotten me lucid a time or two. However, my watch seldom shows up in the dream, which is why my right hand seems to work so well I guess. Has anyone developed any techniques for bringing digital devices into their dreams?

I used to have a P.E.S.T. unit until it suddenly wasn't there anymore after a July 4'th fireworks display. Believe me, I did a reality check before, during and after the light show. Nonetheless, it seems incredibly strange to me that having practiced state checks after every watch-beep for months, the watch seldom showed up in the dream. Why would this be?

Thanks, Brian Jackson

REM LATENCY AND WILDs Quoth SB: "I am also puzzled that our first REM period has been shown to be about 90 minutes after falling asleep. Obviously that is not the case with WILDs. Does anyone out there in lucid land have an explanation for this seeming contradiction?"

The time from sleep onset to REM sleep ("REM latency") varies according to a circadian rhythm. REM latency is at a maximum at the time one ordinarily goes to bed. The 90 minute figure in fact refers to the average REM latency at the beginning of the night. In the late morning, 10-12 hours later, REM latency is at a minimum, ranging from 0-30 minutes, with an average of about 20 minutes. REM latency and REM propensity are inversely related. That means that the likelihood of entering REM sleep at sleep onset is at a maximum in the late morning, when WILDs are likely to occur. Also, most WILDs take the form of a brief interruption of REM sleep by wakefulness followed by a direct return to REM sleep. It's way past my bedtime and I'm feeling pretty drowsy at the moment, but I hope this clarified something.

Rapid Ear Movements to All! Dumbo, the Dreaming Elephant

Thank you all for the great input.

To Stephen LaBerge: I'm not sure how one would measure such a vibration in that state. However, 10Hz may be about right, though sometimes it just feels like "white noise". Have you ever hooked up an EEG to the arms & legs of someone entering REM through WILD?

To Stephen Berlin: Not sure about right hand. Perhaps it's because I'm right handed, and I always check my right hand during reality checks. However, in many cases I'll still have 5 fingers, but their lengths will vary. Sometimes they'll be short and stubby, other times they'll be stretched out like "alien fingers". I suppose this gives new meaning to the phrase "I know this like the back of my hand" :-)

To Keelin: Great stuff. I'll try the body rocking thing. Practicing WILDs has opened up a new door for me. Was getting nowhere fast a few months back with lucidity, and trying many new techniques above and beyond the NovaDreamer. I'm just not receptive to lights in the dreams. Then I devised a computer interface I call LISA (Lucidity Induction System for Audio) which plays back stereo files I've recorded on the PC through a special headset I call "Bedphones" whenever the Nova detects REM. Works great, and I usually hear something from the recording in the dream. But WILDs are definitely an in-your-face technique. There's no mistaking what's going on and when you've gotten there, at least for me. Just had 2 more last night. Sometimes I can fall right into one having had no prior sleep, as was the case last week on the couch at 3:00 am watching Hellraiser. Of course that movie, I believe, was written by another lucid dreamer Clive Barker, if my memory serves me. Maybe that was it.

Thanks again everybody. I'm grateful for this forum, and for others who share this remarkable skill.

Regards, Brian Jackson

Hey Fellow Dreamers!

I have a question re. WILDs. This morning I had an interesting half-success/half-failure with inducing WILDs. After briefly waking, I went back to sleep and began practicing MILD, rehearsing becoming lucid at two points in an earlier dream containing clear dream signs. I tried this probably 3-4 times and then realized I was starting to dream--spontaneously generated images of people and interactions were starting to appear. However, this felt like what has been described as NREM, perhaps stage 2(?). By that I mean, I had a detached feeling, in which my thought processes felt like I was still awake, and the dream images were not especially captivating or coherent (sort of ho hum, prosaic, and thin, or fragile). In any case, upon realizing that I was dreaming, I mentally said to myself "I'm dreaming." However, this resulted in my sensing my actual resting body (e.g., the band on my sleeping mask) and loss of the dream feeling. I tried rubbing my dream hands together for a while, and also tried spinning my dream body. The latter I found very difficult to visualize (or "somatosensorize"(?)), perhaps because I was still on the verge of full-blown dreaming, and thus did not have a strong sense of a complete dream body. It felt like performing a mental exercise to correctly imagine both the bodily and visual sensations. I went through several cycles of "I'm dreaming," dream hand rubbing, "I'm dreaming," hand rubbing,' and finally ended up losing lucidity.

Overall, it was both gratifying and irritating. I was happy that so many times (probably 3-4) I actually managed to become lucid, but I felt somewhat irritated that the transition to full-blown dreaming was so difficult, and that in the process I ultimately ended up in losing lucidity. Does anyone have suggestions for dealing with making this transition? Is it simply a matter of needing more practice with hand rubbing or spinning, or is there a step after this that I was missing?

Thanks much!

Les

Hello. I am still practicing (and doing) WILDs with good success. 2 nights ago I had a whopping 8 in a row, many with an ongoing theme. After awakening briefly between each, I would immediately enter sleep paral. and go thru the usual "vibrating bed" "loud buzz" thing and suddenly I was lucid again. Something I've noticed though on my most successful nights is that they weren't. I mean, it's usually when I've stayed up until 5:00 a.m. and it's getting daylight out. About the time I just can't force myself to stay awake any longer I attampt to sleep while staying concious.

My question here is this: when deprived of sleep, does the brain bypass the usual REM periods it would have normally had (by being used to a fairly regular sleep cycle) and anticipate the longer REM periods I would normally have had at this time?

Respectfully, Brian Jackson/James

I had my first WILD experience today. I laid down for a brief nap, enjoying the feeling of relaxation while watching various hypnagogic images flash up. I caught a brief glimpse of a tree. Being in a very relaxed state, I followed the image - imagining what the tree would feel like, what it would smell like, etc. Before long I found myself in a lucid dream climbing a tree. On top of a branch I spied two knotholes that reminded me of eyes. I concentrated on the holes and they did indeed turn into a pair of human eyes. I swung from the branch, filled with excitement at inducing and directing a WILD. I lost my lucidity later in the dream, but it was still an exhilirating experience.

Chad

that sounds very cool, chad. i've never had a wild, nor have i really tried to. it sounds as though you need to develop an enhanced awareness of your state of mind as you are falling asleep in order to do it. or perhaps simply an enhanced awareness in general. i'll be curious to see if you find this to have been a lucky shot, or the real acquisition of a new skill. keep posting!

I feel stupid, but what are WILDs and how do you induce them . I tried looking it up on this page but was unsucessful. Any help is much appreciated.

Heya Mike. A 'WILD' is a Wake Induced Lucid Dream. Meaning that you enter directly into the lucid dream state from waking consciousness! I have not experienced any myself, but many of the people here have. It sounds almost paradoxical, but it is eminently practicable. The theory and practice of it are deeply covered in LaBerge's book 'Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming.' Copies are readily available through the Institute. Hope I was of help! Yours, Ralph

In the still dark hours of morning, I slip into an awareness of dreaming that blossoms from imagined living at seawater's edge. With a small rake, I comb steps of wet sand into various patterns, my favorite resembling multiple brainwaves. Then turning, I enter a sea of deep teal, slightly thicker than water of the waking world and more translucent than transparent. This adds a mysterious quality as depth increases. Were it not for the gift of lucidity, anxiety as to what might possibly swim 'neath the surface would surely toss me quickly ashore. Instead, I linger, gliding deliriously through a luscious, liquid dream world.

Fellow Dreamers :) I would like to comment to Stephan LaBerge note from Jan 5. SLaB writes that the first REM period starts about 90 minutes after falling asleep. This is not quite true. The first REM starts right when falling asleep for only few minutes. From my own experience I can testify that when I fall asleep I can feel my eyes move (althoug the hypnagogic images stay clear infront of me). I also found references for this phenomenon in the scientific literature. Sweet dreams of wisdom Yossi

Dear Yossi,

While there is indeed eye movement and hypnagogic imagery associated with the initial onset of sleep, as I understand it, there are more factors involved in producing a REM sleep state. I have not read any reports that contradict LaBerge's statement regarding the onset of the first REM period of the night. Would you cite the scientific references to which you are referring for us?

Sincerely, Keelin

Dear Lucid Dreamers,

Most of my LDs are starting as WILDs. They always start with sleep paralysis (see my post in Hypnogogic experiences, Sleep Paralysis and Seizures).

It's interesting to mention the following thing. Stephen LaBerge writes in EWLD book that the sleep paralysis/WILD phenomena usually starts when a person awakes from the REM phase, and less frequently at the onset of the REM sleep. My experience shows contrary thing. From no less than 30 WILDs I experienced, only 2 of them started when I was awakening from the REM sleep. All others was starting at the onset of the REM phase (after "normal" awakening from the middle of the dream).

It'd be interesting to know if it's also common for others, or am I different at this phenomenon.

Thanks and Lucid Dreams, Nicholas

Dear Keelin,

The reference I can cite was published originally in Hebrew. If it was translated to English it should be entitled as: The Psychology of Dreams, by Isaac Lewin. in Conscious Dreaming by the Institute of Advanced Thinking it sais that "USUALLY,[i.e. not always] non-REM sleep is the first state to apear in the transition from wakfulness to slepp..." (page 12). However, I am aware of the differences between the first stage of sleep and REM sleep. Mostly the elevation of physiological factors such as heart rate, blood pressure, and sexual organs activity. But, there are similarities between the 2 stages:

1. Brain Waves: Both REM and onset of sleep are chractirized by both alpha and theta waves.
2. Rapid Eye Movement: In both stages rapid eye movement apear.
3. Sleep Paralysis: In both stages red muscles paralysis apear (althoug this effect is deeper in REM).
4. Visual Images: in both stages visual images (as well as auditory, kinestatic, and olfactory stimuly) apear.
5. Lucid Experience: LD can be achieved in both stages (MILD for REM sleep, and WILD for 1st stage). In both cases the experience is reffered as Lucid DREAM not as Lucid Hypnagogia for the first stage).

You were right that there is not much to contradict SLaB statement but there is lot in common between REM and the onset of sleep.

respectfully Yosseph

Dear fellow dreamers!

Here is a report of my latest successes (and few frustrations). It's my first longer WILD in a nap. Seems to fit in some threads of the latest discussions. I have to add, that this experience is the result of many month of nearly everyday practise in WILD, so you can fully appreciate it.

Uncle Morpheus wants You!!!

Yours

Ralf

Wie Tr'ume funktionieren 16012001 #TR #NT #LT #DSA3 #Tr'umen #Musik

How dreams are made up

I lie down in the afternoon to have another meeting with uncle Morpheus. I start the 61 - points relaxation exercise. I arrive "three", drift away, "six", drift away, "ten". I stop the exercise, because I'm deeply relaxed. I start counting "One, I'm dreaming, two, ..." But I don't count too "loud", I don't want to disturb what's going on. Just keep aware. I'm perceiving a muddle of body - sensations, images, colors, words and small dream - scenes. After a while I turn from my back to my right side. I'm recalling some past dream - scenes. Some new scenes appear. I'm interpreting them. After doing this for a while it dawns on me, that it is twaddle, to interprete, if my aim is to enter a dream. Or am I already dreaming, that I interprete my dreams? It is hard for me to distinguish. There are forms and colors in the void, but I still seem to be aware of physical body. I'm sure, that later on I'm going to easily remember the interesting interpretations (but I failed to do it). I decide to stop thinking, stop interpreting, but to let myself go. (Some people might be aware, what this means to me, because I very like to keep things under control) The next thing, I remember is, that I would very like to swim in the void. I simply do swimming movements. My legs feel stiff and tired for a while, but soon they take part in the simming - experience. Now I'm swimming and hovering in the void, aware of the dream - like quality of this experience. It is wonderful. Don't interpret, just swim and enjoy being! The next memory is, that I try to create a dream environment, while hovering in the dark. Green. Feels like a wide green plain, I'm hovering above. I perceive music. A delayed electric guitar, bass, drums, voice. The pattern of the guitar reminds me of a song, I know. "Heyla" or "Layla, ... why'd you run away...". But as I'm listening harder, I find differences in the pattern and the text. The text is about the "mists of Avalon". I'm feeling perfect, just to hover and listen to the music, fully aware of my dream - body and every detail of the music, aware, that every note, every word arises out of myself. I wonder, how the words would sound in german language. Just the thought and immediatly the singer shifts to german. Feels good. I'm feeling moved to write a song in german words about my experiences in the "mists of Avalon", i.e. in the lands of my dreams. The scene vanishes. I feel myself lying on my belly in the dark. I'm kind of convinced that the whole dream is over. But the body is expanding and shrinking again and again. This can't happen, while awake. Just this thought and expanding stops. Again, there is nothing but the living void and the impression to be a body. Inside the "void" a green bubbeling ball. I remember, that it is helpful to concentrate on visual perception rather than on body - sensation to enter a dream. I focus on the green ball. It gains structure very rapidly, but simultaneosly my body shrinks very fast. I'm frightend to loose my body (myself). I sort of "grasp" my body. Immediatly I'm thrown back into the void. I have another try with the same result. What can I do now? I try one more time to hover. I kind of jump. My tiptoes feel very "physical", the rest of the body kind of "astral". Seems like the tiptoes decide to stay on earth and that it is time to wake up. No matter. I'm feeling very well (sauwohl), I open my eyes and find myself in exactly the same position, in wich I hovered through the dream: Lying on the bellys right side. There is no music, I'm alone in our appartment. Writing stays stable on a closer look. I seem to be awake. This ecstatic experience colours my emotions during the rest of the day and until today.

Thanks to Stephen LeBerge for the WILD reference. I'm newish to the site, so have not yet familiarised myself with the terminology, but now know (I think *s) that I often have WILDs in that I sometimes go straight into an LD from being awake. This seems very like what used to be called a 'vision' - and who knows how many religions have been based on a WILD......? The mind boggles.

I note the strong link from this site to Idries Shah's work, and am happy to share with you all that I spent a lot of time with Shah back in the 70s, and was there when he had a WILD - only he wasn't asleep. He was actually sitting in his study while I drew a portrait of him. Typically, he was ultra-cool about it. He said, "Oh, I'm seeing something....haven't had one of these for a while...." Then he related what he was seeing. I don't feel comfortable repeating what he said without his permission, so will content myself with reporting that it bore all the hallmarks of an LD

• and I'm sure that he, like us, didn't know why he was seeing the scenes he reported. But clearly he was accustomed to it, and quite at ease.

While I'm on line, I might as well add that I associate the work of this Institute with the emerging connection being made between quantum physics and mystical traditions such as the Upanishads. It seems to me that this is the age when the long-standing border between science and spirituality will be crossed by many explorers, and the emerging synthesis will be the basis of a new ethos - which will be a bloody good thing for everyone s

Cheers

Alan T

Ralf, I have only really practiced WILD techniques when I have an afternoon nap. Over the last six months I have mainly concentrated on the counting method but recently have tried the flame technique and concentrating on my breathing.

With the counting at first, I would be aware of dreamlets(hallucinations) after I had lost control of the counting but almost never could I remember them - very fleeting.

More recently I find that I can grasp the end of these brief dreams. What I find difficult is to observe them lucidly. I have the impression that many posters on the forum do observe the hallucinations lucidly. Recently though I feel I have had some brief lucid glimpses of these dynamic scenes. How do they appear to you?

One little success I have had recently is to see maybe once per session a very detailed static vision, perhaps of the scene outside my window, or a table or face, which then gradually fades. Qualitatively it seems very different from the dreamlets. Another advance I hope towards success is that when I am very relaxed I occasionally feel my body shaken sometimes violently from side to side, or hear a sound like glass being crunched under foot.

To my question. While counting I've tried to visualize myself in a dream scene hoping that I might become lucid in it. What happens is that I find myself having the non-lucid completely different dreamlets.

When you count do you simply focus on the dreamlets or do you imagine yourself counting in a scene?

Regards,

Owen

OK. I'll try to write down my diary in English now. Some notices of this noon's nap. Like Owen, I'm not that sure, whether I should call it a WILD. But there were really "wild" moments ;-> :

Time: 1349 - 1454. I'm lying an my back. Take some pot - shaped breaths, although I feel not tired. I'm frustrated with my last tries. I simply slept in again and again, regardless, which side I choose. Today, it feels different. I'm enjoying a fluent 61 point exercise, only two short non lucid dreaming phases, nice body floating feelings, pretty good visualisation / sound, vibration of my "jet - cymbals". After this I set my intention to dream lucid and to prolong / stabilise the scene by handrubbing or spinning. I'm calm, maybe somewhat exited, because I'm better focussed today. I imagine the rotating pill - sized white dot. I start counting. Much better, than the other days. I'm so glad, that I seem to drift out relaxation. I focus on the pill and get into some short pictures and scenes, which I can watch lucidly. I try to stabilise in a scene by looking around and handrubbing. I see my son, throwing something in my direction at my father's present house. I recognise, I'm dreaming and simply focus on the pill and slowly turn around 360° to stabilise visual surrounding. The image of my son is gone. I'm nearly torn into the house, but don't let it happen. I try it after the full turn intentionally. I have the feeling, as if Alan T. is there, I don't see him, but feel his presence sharply. I see my father, go with him into the living room and sit down. The picture is quite stable, although I feel my body all the time. But I feel, I'm too active now. I let go of the scenery and focus simply on the pill. I'm still not into sleep paralysis, I can't feel my dreambody moving. I focus on the pill, after some time in the fuzzy void I see myself sitting at a table. I look at my hands, take a small wooden ball and rub it, roll it between my palms. I look at my hands and then at the surroundings to stabilise the scene. It is my "office" room in our apartment. As soon as I got the whole picture, my body wants to take off and fly. I feel Toko Pa hovering above me. Seems, that she wants to support me, she laughing, as to say: Take it easy, just take off. I feel my body (but don't know, whether the real or the dreambody) moving . Something inside me holds back. OK. I force it. And in this loose the feeling of a dreambody. OK. I imagine being a bird, then a bee to maintain a flying image. Finally I'm a bee and imagine flying through the open window. A quite stable scene, I suck some nectar off our balcony's flowers. I could go on. But I have enough for today. Satisfied to have a much better focus, than in the last two or three weeks. And it seems, that I found the reason: I always drank too much tea (1,5l) in the morning prior to napping, since I stopped smoking and drinking coffee. Today I only had three cups until midday. Although it is only a herbal mixture (no black or green tea), it seems very powerful.

No really a full blown Lucid Dream - but I am pleased to announce that last night my life was endanger in the dream world. I cannot remember exactly why, but there was a human threat ..... some scary people that wanted to cause me harm.

I however was able to laugh at them because I knew I was dreaming and no harm could come to me ! It was an entrauling feeling of invincibility. I also remember changing certain dream properties but it is all very misty.

I was pleased ....... well sort of. I suppose mastering the art will take time, and time is something I have plenty of (probebly about 50 years) hehe

Take care everyone ! Daniel

Sunday June 24th <<< Lucid on my birthday!

I awakened after an average non-lucid night and then went downstairs to attempt to induce a WILD. My biggest battle is the cawing of crows in the morning. This is sometimes combined with auditory hallucinations of crows. Mercy! Foiled by a crow! Oh well, Poe wrote about a similar occasion. Anyway, I relax my physical body as I concentrate on dreaming and ask myself, "Am I dreaming now?' (For my birthday gift, my wife bought me the Stanley Kubrick Collection and I spent yesterday evening watching 2001: A Space Odyssey.) I just KNEW I'd have a "space dream'. Nope! Suddenly I am in my kitchen and realize I am dreaming because the room looks slightly different. On the counter I see a Habenero pepper. I think to myself, "Since this is a dream, I should be able to eat this pepper without feeling the heat.' I bit it in half and ate it. Nothing! Hmmm! Now that I think of it, there is no reason why I shouldn't have tasted something. Mindset, I guess! I awoke soon afterwards!

Awake but not Sleepless in Cincinnati, Darren

Hi I used de WILD technique this morning. I woke up 6:00am and decided to practice it. Good thing to do when you have insomnia. I am having like one our two LD per week telling myself after I go to bed to have it and by doing reality checks during the day. When I was younger I use to relax and trying to hear "that noise" to sleep whenever I have difficulty to. This time I tried to end up with a lucid dream. After a while I could feel that my arms were going up. kind of ghost shape of arms. My dream body was detached from my real one. I didn't thought I was dying or became a spirit what I could be thinking some time ago; I thought let's go for my LD. I was in my bedroom trying to get trough the walls and fell its texture. I woke up. Then I tried again, and I was in my room doing the same thing. It ended. Tried again and I was in another place. I met a man and had a nice time with him. Then the dream was over I tried again, met a man and it was great. They all started the same way. I felt that my dream body was living my real body. The content of the dreams is not so important here but the ability to go for four times one after another and the perception of my dream body living my real body and don't fell scare it is very new for me. Sweet dreams Beatrice

Dear Group

I am new to this forum; however have been trying for lucidity for about three months.

Only blips on the radar screen, no long distance travels yet.

I have been interested in knowing how one ascends lucidity through a waking state, when they have to transcend "The Quiet Phase.'

Does one notice differences between the "Quiet Phase" & "The REM Phase.'

My understanding of this process my spark some lucidity.

myles

This morning I got up after about six hours of sleep and stayed up about an hour and a half. I went back to sleep. As I lay there I told myself a few times that I was going to give myself something to talk about during my psychology presentation today (about lucid dreaming). A few minutes later the dreams began.

The first dream scene was a nice comfy home which was invaded by the presence of my stepfather who I have not seen in years. All doubts about whether I was dreaming faded when I saw he had blond hair instead of black and gray. We fought and he kept getting taller and stronger and younger until he was about ten feet tall. I floated up in the air and he grabbed me. I told him I was dreaming and that I was creating him and he had no real power. He shrunk back down to normal size and became weak-looking. I told him I had wasted enough time with him. The scenery faded. I decided to stay still and wait for another dream scene.

Soon I was in a bar and uncertain whether I was awake or asleep. I was telling myself that I was having a false awakening when I overheard the woman tending bar trying to convince everyone they were in a dream. She picked up someone's cigarette and said that in dreams people don't really get burned and told a man to stick out his arm. He did not want to so I did. She pressed the cigarette to my arm and we heard a loud sizzling sound but when she pulled the cigarette away there was no mark. I stayed there trying to convince people, but they would not be convinced (except the bartender). I materialized a paper on the bar and then made print and picture appear line by line, picture by picture. Not even this convinced them.

The scenery faded and I awoke again in the house of the first dream. I created a clone of this dream body and set myself to seeing how much conflicting perception my brain could handle. I placed the hand of one body on the chest of the other and I could feel both... each from a separate body. I went on with the experimenting. With a little struggle I could see with both bodies at the same time. Both completely separate and self consistent. I sent the bodies looking for clocks to check the consistency of time perception between the two. The scenery faded.

I had so many dreams I lost count. I got to be a woman and saw a dog fly. Cool stuff. I get the feeling many people will have a hard time believing I had all these dreams in a row without waking. Anyway, wish me luck on the presentation.

-Jason

Welcome Myles!

You can become lucid in either REM or non-REM sleep. For most people it is easier to use the repetative oddities of the dream world to remind them that they're dreaming. If you have EXPLORING THE WORLD OF LUCID DREAMING, read pages 40-47 regarding dreamsigns (clues that help you recognize you're dreaming). Pages 65-76 in EWLD will give you a better idea of how these awarenesses carry over from waking to dreaming, too--and give you plenty of good practice for strenthening your intentions. Basically, it's about having a clear intention, strong will, and training your prosepective memory. Just a couple quick thoughts in case you don't have the book (it's a great investment! ): Form a clear intention for what you want to do in the future (i.e., become lucid in the dream and fly to the stars, visit with Benjamin Franklin, or whatever your dream goal is). The more you think about the intention, the more deeply engrained it will be. The more detail you can come up with about what you want to do, the better off you'll be, too--as this will be motivational to you and your unconscious mind. Pick something you REALLY WANT TO DO! It's very important to get in the habit of questioning your state of awareness, as waking life and dreams have much in common, and the habit of testing your state of awareness will carry over from waking life to your dreams. Tell yourself, "When I recognize I'm dreaming, I'm going to. . ."

If you want extra help, you can buy a NovaDreamer--a lightweight sleep mask with adjustable light/and or sound cues that you can adjust to be just strong enough to enter your dream, but not so strong that they wake you up. Train yourself to question your state of awareness when you see blinking (and other) lights during the day, and the habit will carry over to your nighttime practice. Gotta run now. I'm feeling very sleepy. Hope this guidance is at least semi-clear. If not, please ask more questions. I'll be interested in hearing how things progress for you. Please keep us posted! Definitely stick with it if you can. It took me about 3 months before I started having my first lucid dreams, but things progressed pretty quickly from there. . .

Best Wishes!!! Leslie

Myles,

I just noticed your post is in the WILD category. That being the case, perhaps it would be helpful to know that you don't necessarily have to experience a "blank/quiet" space before experiencing a lucid dream. As we're falling asleep we often experience various types of interesting patterns called "hypnogogia." Some people can use the hypagogic state as a springboard for a lucid dreaming; the imagery can evolve into a dream (sometimes very quickly) if you are calm and patient enough. More often than not, it's hard to stay calm the first few times we have LDs as it's SO exciting. As the novelty begins to wear offf a bit & you get a better sense of what to expect, you will be more skilled at walking the tight rope between INSUFFICIENT attention to stay lucid (getting swept into the imagery without lucidity) and TOO MUCH EAGERNESS/EFFORTING which makes you wake up. Chapter 4 of EWLD has info on WILDS. Most people I've talked with seem to agree that it's easier to have a WILD after a mid-evening awakening (when your brain is partially rested, maybe after waking from a dream 4.5 or 6 hours into the night).

Pleasant [Lucid--fingers crossed for ya here] Dreams! Leslie

p.s. Later in the night, esp. after the second before last REM period, we often go directly into REM after the previous post-dream awakening. In other words, the last REM period of the evening is typically the longest of the evening (REM periods generally getting longer and closer together as the night goes on), with the entire ~90-minute cycle possibly being full of REM sleep.

Bye for now. Leslie

Leslie

Thanks for the words of encouragement. I also believe that knowledge is priceless, and have purchased the book, the tapes, and the Nova dreamer. The course came with the Nova dreamer, and I am looking forward to working my way through it. Ever Further!

My confusion on the REM stems from the fact I assumed without it we could not "look around in our dreams.' I figured until we hit REM, Our dream eyes could only look in a static direction, and that "seeing" in our dreams started with REM.

Looking forward to Lucidity

myles

Hi, lucid folks. I'm happy to post in this thread one more time. Because having lucid dreams at will (and at certain points of time) means to be able to have WILDs. This is one step on the way.

The ND wake alarm goes. (6:10 am)I write down dreams, get up for a pi, return, take a gulp of water. It is only ten minutes of wakefulness. My experience is, that I can't return to sleep consciously, if I stay up longer. I lay down for MILD. I relax. There is a lot of hypnagogic imagery while I go through the points. I stop at 31 this time, because I'm relaxed enough and want to focus on MILD, before I drift into unconscious sleep. I take the soccer game - dream for MILD. While I recall / redream the dream, there are variations and totally different scenes. But I return again and again, to complete the second and third round, where I imagine to get lucid, when the man jumps the fence. Afterwards I drift in and out some scenes, I try to relax deeper and stay conscious. I watch some scenes lucidly, the best is:

Ca 7:00 - 8:00 am I see a family of midgets, parents and a son. They are standing at a well. I'm able to stay aware, while the scene blows up, becomes more and more vivid. The dwarfs begin moving, so do the trees around. Suddenly I feel lifted out of physical body, while the scene stays. There is this beeping in my ears again, that I would connect to OOBE, if it wasn't for the dream scene, I'm seeing. I interpret that I just enter sleep paralysis. I'm a little frightened and excited, as always. I remember Owen's advice to spin for stabilising. I do it. Maybe it prolongs the waking process. I seem to be able to watch the fading of the scene longer. But the scene fades, until it is dark and I feel back in physical body. I try to get into the state again, I don't move (I'm lying on my left side). I dive in and out dream scenes, but can't focus on staying aware or on spinning.

Maybe my spinning was too hard, too "physical". It is not easy to get the balance between letting go and doing something to prolong the dream. Does anyone have advice?

The whole nights report is in the thread: Dreaming and Awakening May '01 @ Maui

Has my last WILD been that long ago? And what about your WILDs? I'd like to read some. It is always interesting, how other people do it.

OK. Here is another success that I would call a WILD, althought it is OBE like. But as long, as I'm not able to prove (to myself) I've been out, I will simply regard it as an LD. I'll give you some additional information on connected subjects, too. Hope, they are not too boring. But I leave out the sleep postures, because, like Joy, I won't influence anyone. I think it is good, to take part in experiments, a good motivation to get lucid!

Yours Ralf

Thursday, 8. November 2001

A night dedicated to experimentation. Onset of the night: I read a text concerning OBE (and LD). I turn off the light, put on the ND mask and perform the 61 - points exercise. I go through the exercise three times. Occasionally drift off into non lucid dream scenes. I work on the "panorama view" I've read about, presuming it means not to focus on a particular hypnagogic image, but focus on the process of seeing and keeping this "panorama view" in mind. At the end of the exercise, when I've already turned onto my right side, I finally see intensive waves of colours filling my sight, but no definite forms. I then decide to recall the faces of Maui dreamers, the places at Mana Lea, and remember my intention 1. to wake up and do the sleep position etc. experiment. 2. To visit Mana Lea and see the dreamcampers. Sometime I drift away...

In the run of the night I remember there were several short dreams. I have been often awake, tested nostrils four times, pressed RC button once (after 12 presses for 2 hours delay). I didn't switch light on, because I didn't want to disturb my Astrid. This morning I've talked to her regarding the "permission" to do so. She is mostly tired (me too), when I do experiment in the night. She is a very light sleeper. These are the dreams, I recalled after awaking:

Untersuche eigene Blutprobe 08112001 #NT #DSA1 #Krankenhaus #Krankheit Processing my own blood test

I'm in a hospital. A doctor has taken a blood test from me. Now I'm working on processing the test, separating serum and cells, sucking the serum out of the tube. Try to find out, what my illness may be. There is some confusion. I haven't got enough material for all tests, that I want to do. It feels strange, I wonder, why I should be that ill at all, feel quite healthy. I awake. Lying on the ...

Luzider Nichtraucher 08112001 #NT #LT #FA #VS #DSA3 #DSA4 #Rauchen #Fliegen #Spinning Lucid non smoker

I just dreamed something I don't remember, recognised, that I'm dreaming. Then I wake up sitting at a kind of bar. With heavy, sleepy head. I'm feeling very tired. I lift my head and see some packages of cigarettes lying on the bar. Somewhat surprised, that I still have some. (I quit smoking in June) I take out a cigarette, take it between my lips, but don't light it. I get up and walk some steps. Then decide to throw this thing away and take a walk in the fresh air. Outside I get into a wonderful uplifting feeling, I feel physical lifted, like the start of an OBE - like experience, try to force it and awake. I don't hesitate, but immediately try to re - enter the dreamstate by recalling how I jumped over the trees in my last LD. The visual environment stays very fuzzy, but the exhilarated feeling is quite close. I feel myself jumping. I then feel the OBE - like lift off. I try to move my dreambody, try to get into a spinning movement. This works for two or three seconds, then I'm stuck, maybe because I try to hard to move. Just recalling how it feels to spin works much better. I'm able to get into a fine and stable, but not that fast spinning (maybe 2 cps) for some seconds, but can't go anywhere, can't get out, can't create or perceive a visual environment. I spin around a horizontal axis, that means, my dream - body is "lying", like my physical body. I wake up again. I'm lying on my...

Ralf- so what book were you reading on LD/OBEs? - Dominick

Hi, Dominick

Nice to hear from you. Hope you're fine. I see, you are still looking for news. What I've read (and still read) was the copy of the text "Out - of - Body Experiences" by Jane Mitchell. You might know it... ;-> I'll keep you updated.

I'm lately reading a new book on LD and OBE by a Swiss author, Werner Zurfluh: "Quellen der Nacht". As far as I know, his books haven't been translated. But he has translated Patricia Garfield: "Creative Dreaming" into German, as far as I remember. (Co - translated).

The more I read, the less I know, the more I look around... (I think there is a similar song)

Ralf

Greetings troopers !

This morning, with great delight, I had a WILD ! But also have a question about my experience :

I got awakened at about 5am by our cat, where I took him out of the bedroom. I then went back to sleep and suddenly.......

....."I found myself standing on the back of an open truck on a freeway going really fast and immediately knew that I WAS DREAMING!! Excitement was immediate, but I held back and simply thought to myself all about what I had learned in Steven's books and tape. Unfortunately, I could not think of what to do with myself, but eventually started to wake up. So I used the "hand looking" technique to stay lucid. It always works for me. Everything really became clear. I could see a large city that we were driving towards on the freeway with huge skyscrapers standing tall. The excitement got too much and so I leaped up while the truck was in motion .... hoping that I would not land back on the freeway, and flew higher and higher until I awoke ......"

This is my second WILD, and both times when I awake, my face feels numb. Almost like it has been aneathetised. I also do feel pretty dizzy afterthem ..... anyhow, it was great that the drought has been met by a 'little' rain. :-)

Kind regards, Daniel----->

Hi, Daniel

It's been long, since I saw you here.

Congratulations. This WILD thing is alway fascinating, isn't it?

I wish you a lucid flood...

Ralf

After a long period of high-pressure work during which my LD rate dropped to zero, things at the office are easier now, and I'm happy to report a brief but intense return to the parallel universe of dream. In the first stages of dozing off, I felt the familiar overall buzzing sensation which sometimes heralds a WILD, and opened myself to it - like an Aka-Seltzer fizzily dissolving in a glass of ink. Just as I began to think this was one of those that just fizzled out into wakefulness, a scene formed around me in the darkness. I was standing on a patch of scrubby moorland which was illuminated as if by a weak spotlight. I remembered a similar LD when a figure had stepped out of the surrounding dark, and suspected that the same thing might happen. Sure enough, a small figure dressed in a shabby cloak emerged from the gloom and tried to brush past me. I grabbed it, and asked it who it was, but had difficulty using my voice. Although I was fully alert in the LD, my voice sounded slurred, as if half asleep. It occurred to me that this was because I was still too "connected" to my body in bed, and was concerned that my efforts to speak might wake me up. All this occurred to me in a flash as I discovered that the figure was a little old woman. I asked again who she was. She seemed distressed, and said she was my father. I couldn't make any sense of this, but, remembering that I should be polite to all dream characters, I apologised for upsetting her, let her go, and woke up.

Love to all - Alan T.

Hi, Alan

Congratulations!

Keep on good work

Yours Ralf

Ralf! It's good to "hear your voice." You've been missed. Hope your learning curve goes geometric, Kate

Dear Kate

Thanks for supportive wishes. I am learning. I'm learning in many realms, in the osteopathic, too.

Hope to post in this thread, soon. MILD practise often leads to WILDs.

CU

Ralf

Alan,

I don't focus too much on WILDs, but last week for the first time ever I heard a sound like a prolonged twang on a guitar followed by a sound like breaking glass.

I still have my daily 10 min "powernaps" around midday and then early evening in which I am trying to fall asleep consciously. After 18 months practice, I am now able to recall some detail from nearly all the dreamlets - in the beginning I could not recall anything. By focusing very hard on a mantra and occasionally opening my eyes for a few seconds I can keep myself on the borderline between sleep and awake. I also experience some of the imagery and sounds lucidly, in the sense that I recall being aware of it, but most is just recalled like an NLD.

I cannot do this technique at night in the few hours before I awake. It seems I just become distracted from the mantra and fall asleep. I think the zhine exercises are helping though. But I am lazy about spending time relaxing my body.

Owen

Owen

That pre-sleep state is indeed a 'wild' place to be. No matter how determined I am to maintain objectivity (if that's the right word) I often find myself thrown off balance by the hypnopompic, mostly auditory, phenomena. Such as noises in other rooms of my home (thumps and rustlings), crystal clear voices speaking in my ear, etc. One I particularly remember was feeling a wet nose and warm breath snuffling the back of my neck, and hearing my ex wife's voice saying, "It's Jongler" - the name of a dalmation we had 30 years ago. Sounds tame to say it, but these experiences aren't impressions, or vague inklings. They seem absolutely real.

It is helpful hearing about other people's WILD experiences. Seven of my sixteen lucid dreams last month were the result of realizing I was in sleep paralysis. For years I hated being woken up in the middle of the night; often I would have repeating nightmares afterwards. With my new understanding of what is happening, the nightmares have been replaced with lucidity. The unpleasant experience of hearing voices, hallucinating, and feeling weird pulses through my "body" during sleep paralysis still happen; however, now I relax, my focus shifts, and I leave my body afterwards.

How significant is the role played by WILDS in making decisions? Part of my job is helping to get people to donate their brains to research. A donor in Japan reported that he couldn't make up his mind until his son (deceased) walked into his bedroom and told him to donate.

Alan

There is a lot going on in this realm between waking, thinking, daydreaming, dreaming. What we call WILD, especially this spontaneous occurrence, is (at least part of) what was called "vision" throughout the history. And visions did deeply impress people in taking decisions. WILDs may be more impressive, than normal dreams, because of the continuous consciousness experienced. And these special WILDs, when you find yourself in the same environment, you just slept in, may be even more impressive because of their "realism". Dreams are still something special to me. It is where ratio and intuition meet, where we may find surprising questions and answers. I suppose, the dreamer didn't consciously think, that the relation to his son had anything to do with this subject, or maybe he didn't consider this as important. Dreams can change the way we look at our lives. That is promising...

Keep on good work

Ralf

Ralf,

Do you have still many LDs where you ...whooosh....wake up almost immediately?

I have begun to have these more often recently, though still have the same frequency of LDs - clusters, then 1 week - 10 day dry spells.

I'm pleased to say that I am having some "success" with MILD. I use "" because the success is largely manifest in these whooshes.

Typically two hours before getting up I awake recall I dream, maybe write it and wake myself up completely - it's a bit of a hassle so cannot do it every night!

Then I practice MILD. Occasionally I have an LD but more typically I have a series of whooshes, could be three or four, before I get up. Sometimes I see a dreamsign, realise...and whoosh, or just realise....and whoosh.

I have a sensation, it's difficult to find words, but it seems almost as if I'm waking quickly in order to say WHILE AWAKE...."Yes that was a dream/ I'm dreaming"....as in the MILD practice.

I'm not sure what to do. Another thing occurs to me. I have these afternoon naps (and I've been trying to do this at night as well) where I've succeed in being able to wake myself quickly having just fallen asleep or nearly asleep....so I can continue the practice. It's in lieu of having someone standing there to wake me up if I've fallen asleep.

It occurs to me that I might be cultivating a bad habit. You seem to have put in a lot of effort on WILD....do you also have a habit of hovering on the border between sleeping and wakelfulness so you can pull yourself back into the waking world to continue the WILD practice.

Don't know if I've explained myself very well.

Owen

Kate, you mentioned that you spent quite a bit of time in front of a PC. I've found a downloadable program at this site,

www.consciousdreaming.com/lucid-dreaming/lucid-dream-out-of-body-experiences-resources.htm

Scroll down to "Reality Check Program"

This will run in the backgound of your PC and pop up with a reminder and give a beep if you set the sound. The good thing is you can change the timing easily between a minimum and a maximum.

What I do for example is set it to go off about every 20min every a 2-3 hour period. I force myself when it goes off to do a state check or visualisation. If I find that I'm fed up of obeying the prompt then I switch the program off.

I find it much easier to resolve to obey the prompt than on my own initiative to get up every so often to do a reality check etc

Owen

A question for the WILD people.

Recently I had a pre-WILD (or so it seemed). As I was lying on my back, an image formed and I was able to keep viewing it, although my degree of control was close to nil. At some point, I became aware of a metallic rattling noise in my ears (I took this to indicate the proximity of WILD), at one point I also heard foot steps outside the room in the hall way. At no time did I lose awareness of myself or feel paralyzed.

I tried to "get into" the dream, and then the noise in my ear would intensify, but it went no further and after some time I came out of it. This repeated two more times, shorter on the subsequent occasions. So, my question is, what should/could I have done at that point?

Thanks, Chris

Dear Owen

I'm still working on prolonging. After a furious start with a three day LD cluster in the beginning of February I had a dry spell, you can say I lost myself (and lucidity) due to my many daytime - tasks. I only in the last day restarted my DSA training and had another short lucid phase, but I'm still somewhat unfocussed. Every night before sleep I do the 61 points. And I write down dreams in the morning. The MILD training did suffer the most. I will get back there, because it is most effective for me.

"I have a sensation, it's difficult to find words, but it seems almost as if I'm waking quickly in order to say WHILE AWAKE...."Yes that was a dream/ I'm dreaming"....as in the MILD practice."

I had (and still have) this sensation, too. I try to make these awakenings softer, if you know what I mean. Imagine a diver: He sinks down into the deep, shortly looses consciousness, wakes again, thinks he is out of air in an unexpected place, is scared and quickly swims to the surface again. That is what happens to me most of the time. My solution: I try to swim back slower and sometimes have the time to realise, that I can breath under water, i.e. I don't need to wake up entirely. And then try to sink again. The point is for me, that I must remember, that I can breath under water, that I don't need to fear. I must remember, that it is natural and safe to be awake in dreams. Mostly I don't have a WILD resulting of MILD practise, but a DILD: The diver faints shortly and regains consciousness in a greater depth. Now he knows, that he doesn't need to hurry back. But his body may try to get back, although the mind is clear. This seems to be the case for me in my short LDs. So my task is still to lead the body in the right direction via handrubbing, spinning or swirling arms. One other thing is that I seem to be too activated, once getting lucid. I start to think hard on how to prolong and hold the dream. I seem to think too hard. This is like the diver would stop breathing under water and then panic. My current plan is to go with the flow in this case, and not to tear myself out of the dreamplot. I think I have still to learn to discern between loss of contact to physical reality (to feeling physical body lying in bed) and loss of consciousness (loss of myself). I still feel (mostly) as if both were the same. I still have to learn to stay calm and focussed and to gently flow into a dreamscene. I still have the great aim to be continuously aware through day and night. I want to expand awareness day and night. My closer aims are prolonging and increasing frequency of LD. Would be fine to have one LD per two MILD exercises.

Hope that helps you. I'm glad, that we two exchange experiences and questions once again.

Let's dive into the deep and hold that light!

Yours Ralf

Hi John!

Please excuse the long delay. I found that nobody answered your posting. And that nobody did welcome you. So:

Welcome to the forum!

"With my new understanding of what is happening, the nightmares have been replaced with lucidity."

It is good to hear, that people with sleep paralysis can profit by reading or taking part in our discussions here. I've read some texts on SP and it seems to be a great burden for many people. How did you replace nightmares with lucidity? What did influence you? What were you practising and reading to change your attitude? I found in your bio, that your interests are astronomy, paleontology and history. So, another lucid dreamer with scientific and creative abilities. I'm interested in similar subjects.

Hope to see more of your comments here, you seem to be an experienced lucid dreamer.

Pleasant LDs to you

Yours Ralf

Dear Chris

A year has passed since we last "talked". Good to hear you are still on the lucid path. Your question isn't easy.

I had this experiences of hallucinated sounds and distorted body feelings some times while practising the counting method or the 61 points. Nowadays it is not that strong. These experiences are frequently reported in sleep onset, WILD onset, but also in the onset of OBE (if there is actually a difference). So, what I can say is that everything is possible. Someone advised me to listen and to sink into the sound to produce an OBE. I didn't succeed in this way. But for other people it might work. You could also watch the images grow until they are stable enough to enter the dream. Don't force it too hard. I know this feeling, saying: THIS must be the point. NOW I've found a new door. And what should I do?

Keep on trying WILD

Yours Ralf

P.S. I hope some more experienced WILDers will post a reply.

b Ralph et al. It seems to me that the hinterland of consciousness experienced during WILDs is somehow representative of where we really live. There, sometimes, all the doubts we keep at arms' length become manifest to us, and we are forced, in that moment, to face them. But what is their criteria? What is the message we should consider? That soft breath on the back of my neck came from a dog I regret having to leave. He was accompanied by a wife whom I do not regret having to leave. I remember the good times of the past, and the bad. Is there a purpose to WILDs, or are they just a random evocation of passing and inconsequential thoughts?