Questions re. reality testing

Hi Folks,

Here is a question for anyone with extensive practice with reality testing. What other techniques have you used besides reading text repeatedly or looking at your digital watch face repeatedly to test your state of awareness? I've been doing this a lot, and I know it works, because I used re-reading of text in a dream to become lucid (sure enough, every time I looked back at it, it transformed itself). However, while this is clearly an effective technique, it doesn't seem to go far enough. Just looking at one's watch several times a day to see if it changes seems too superficial of an approach to bring about real changes in consciousness while dreaming. That is, it seems too easy to quickly ask the question, give the answer without much thought, and go on. And, at least for me, it doesn't seem to be having much of an effect in terms of increasing lucidity while dreaming.

One technique that that sounds promising (from Green & McCreery's book, Lucid Dreaming), is to try to remember in reverse chronological order, what one has done over the course of the day. (I believe Stephen LaBerge also mentioned trying to remember the last few minutes in his book, ETWOLD). When I tried this last night while waking, it had a sufficiently jarring effect. It struck me that the qualitative feeling of working back through my memory for the day's events was not that different from working back through my memory for dreams (e.g., when writing my dream journal). The chief difference seemed to be quantitative rather than qualitative. That is, I remembered more waking events than I can for dream recall, but the subjective experience of working back through the memories felt the same (perhaps because the same memory mechanisms are at work?).

Another technique I recall Stephen LaBerge suggesting was to look for unusual events during waking (surreal real-world events) and perform reality tests then. I've been able to do this occasionally, but don't usually think of trying it during the day. Perhaps this is a problem of prospective memory lapses. And this may explain why I continue to overlook clearly bizarre occurences during dreaming, that when I wake up seem to have been obvious dream signs. (E.g., this morning I dreamed of visiting my grandmother, who in real life passed away several years ago. Somehow the incongruity of this escaped me while dreaming, and I was simply overcome with happiness at seeing her again after all this time.)

Any further suggestions for techniques for reality testing, or pointers on how to use such techniques more successfully, would be much appreciated.

Respectfully yours,

Les

Hi Les,

You're absolutely right about the possibility of becoming de-sensitized when it comes to habitual reality testing. It's embarrassing to admit that there have even been times when I'm demonstrating to dream characters how to perform a reality test, then go thoughtlessly through the motions and miss my own chance at lucidity. Obviously, sincerity is of the essence!

Recently, I've been using a form of the "remembering in reverse chronological order" technique you mentioned, asking at various times throughout the day, "How did I get here?" (either physically or mentally). It's an interesting challenge to catch oneself mid-thought in meandering daydreams and work back through the various links that led to that point. Definitely helps improve dream recall too.

As for reality checking during those surreal real-world events" It may help to study how you respond to bizarre situations while you're awake. My initial response to anomalous events, whether awake or adream, is the exclamation: "How odd!" If I follow this judgement call with the question: "How odd is it?" (ie: is it odd enough to mean I might be dreaming?) and then do a reality check, this holds me in a reflective mode longer and strengthens the habit of state testing.

Oddly enough! Keelin

Hi Keelin!

Thanks for your helpful suggestions! I'll try both of them (more of the reverse order memory exercise, and following up odd experiences with the question, "How odd?"). It is clear that diligence in the reality testing frame of mind is difficult, and takes a lot of mental discipline and tenacity. Your dream experiences with superficial reality testing are a perfect (and surreal!) example of the pitfalls that exist even for experienced lucid dreamers/reality testers!

Thanks again!

Les

Keelin, your post reminded me of a dream I had years ago in which I was lecturing to an audience of thousands on how to tell the difference between the dream state and the waking state. Unfortunately, it was a true case of "not practicing what you preach" since I did not then become lucid. D'oh! That I've never lectured in front of thousands of people, and started out in the audience then suddenly was giving the lecture, were also rather obvious dreamsigns in retrospect... J

Dear Xtrope,

Fortunately, "obvious dreamsigns in retrospect" can still be stepping stones to lucidity -- if one makes the sincere intention to catch them the next time they appear.

And since I've vowed to do a reality test the next time I addressed this very subject, I'll pause here for a moment"

Well, what do you know! ;->

PS: I remember that lecture you mentioned! You were sitting right beside me when all of a sudden...

Hey, I just had a "near-reality test" dream experience that I'd like to report. This dream was non-lucid throughout.

Hi Adastra and fellow dreamers,

So it was YOU who left that written note in the dream store! Well, all kidding aside, that's a great idea. Never know when you'll encounter a fellow oneironaut. Your elfishness reminds me of the story entitled "Eyes of a Blue Dog" by Gabriel Garcia Marquez. The basic story line is that two people who have never met in waking reality continue to meet and develop a relationship in the dream world. The woman claims that when she is in the waking world, wherever she goes, she writes or says the phrase, "eyes of a blue dog" as a code so that if the man is nearby he will recognize her. I won't spoil it by telling more, but it's a great short story.

And to add to your comment about nearly performing reality checks, I have the recent close call to share:

...as I float a few feet above those gathered below, I call out: "Anyone for a reality check?"

Advice: Don't wait for your dream characters to give the green light! Be the first one on (or above) your block to do one. (Okay, I'm doing one right NOW).

Looks like the "real' thing to me, Keelin

Lately, I've been having the next worst problem to what Adastra mentioned. For example, the other morning I was dreaming along about something--what, I cannot remember. I was reading something, perhaps a newspaper, and I was already suspicious that I was dreaming. So, I did a quick generic reality test by looking away from the text and back again, twice. Each time, the text changed. I became lucid! Then, I must have promptly lost lucidity, because I remember nothing after that!! Later, when I woke up, all I could remember was the brief moment of lucidity.

So, even if you manage to do a reality test, that doesn't guarantee that you will remain lucid! So, now, in the spirit of the idea that Keelin and Adastra have suggested, before going to sleep, I think about what I will do the next time I spot a few particular dream signs. That is, I plan post-reality test lucid dream activities. For example, if I look at a mirror, I'll check if the image changes. If it does, I'll try to stick my hand through it! Hopefully, that will help extend the lucidity a little!

Lucid dreams!

Les

Keelin, thanks for recommending "Eyes of a Blue Dog" - I hunted down this story and really enjoyed it. I was delighted to find it online, so if anyone else would like to read this enigmatic little gem, surf to http://www.bnl.com/shorts/stories/bluedog.html

Lately I've had several dreams in which it occurs to me to do a reality test, yet I don't follow through and actually do one, or don't complete the test. So I've been trying to be more diligent in actually performing a reality test whenever this occurs to me in the waking state. This morning I had a dream which was almost nothing BUT reality tests...

I should also note that this dream followed a period of being awake for about 1 1/2 hours or so during the night. I woke up around 3:20 or so, tried to get back to sleep for about 40 minutes then got up in frustration. I decided to use the time wisely, and read some of a book on lucid dreaming until I felt tired enough to go to bed. My incubation efforts were rewarded. :)

Hi Adastra!

First of all, congratulations on the fruit of your earnest efforts! Quite an interesting dream! I too have found the two "never fail" reality tests, the text test, and the digital watch/clock test, to be very effective. Indeed, a recent lucid dream I had included the same sort of phenomenon you noted:

I dozed off while reading and had a false awakening. I dreamt that I was looking at my digital watch and watching the numbers rapidly randomly changing, and recognized this as a dream sign...

Something else that you noted also caught my attention. That is, the fact that right after your moment of greatest lucidity, you lost lucidity and the following non-lucid portion of the dream caused some interference when trying to remember the lucid portion. This is something that has also happened to me quite frequently recently. I've been having lots of lucid dreamlets, in which I manage to test my reality or otherwise become lucid, but fail to hold onto the lucid mindset, and often lose some of the memories in the process.

I wrote in an earlier posting that I thought problems maintaining lucidity in dreaming might be an issue of concentration. That is, it seems to require a tremendous amount of concentration to hold onto lucidity once you've got it. And I wonder if this is related to the finding that during REM sleep the portion of the frontal cortex associated with attention and short-term memory is less active than during waking. My guess is that during lucid dreaming, this portion of the brain becomes more active than during non-lucid dreaming (perhaps sometimes even more active than during normal waking!).

I wonder if this idea relating concentration to maintaining lucidity in dreaming is also related to the Buddhist dream meditation practice. That is, most meditation practices are concerned with focusing the mind (i.e., developing one's ability to focus and maintain attention on something), and if that were applied to dreaming, then it would assumably help in maintaining lucidity. Does anyone have any ideas on these issues?

Best regards,

Les

Adastra, I am just new to lucid dreaming, but when I was younger, about 25 years ago, I had many OBE's while in, what I know now, to be a state of false awakening, much like the experience you describe. Unfortunately, I no longer have these experiences for some reason, but it might interest you to know that I also had great difficulty in opening my eyes during the experience. I eventually learned to open them (and do anything else physical) by willing rather than by trying to manipulate my "dream body". Perhaps this will work for you too. Happy travelling.

Thanks, Joan, I'll try to remember that next time I have the same problem. After all, in the dream world at least, "Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law." J

Alternatively, Keelin has suggested focusing on other senses when vision is just not happening, which I find a very interesting idea as well.

One instance of sparkling lucidity almost troughout the night - after I knew that I had faild 4 of 4 papers in my accounting exam. Everything seemed so unreal that I was genuinely wandering if this was a dream or not and even caught myself on trying to wake up a couple of times. I went to sleep and there I was.

There is a great diffrenence in just how you are doing your reality tests. Am I right?

One instance of sparkling lucidity almost troughout the night - after I knew that I had faild 4 of 4 papers in my accounting exam. Everything seemed so unreal so I was genuinely wandering if this was a dream and even caught myself on trying to wake up a couple of times. I went to sleep and there I was.

There really is a diffrenence in just how you are doing your reality tests.

Hello everyone, I do not post often on the message board but I do read a lot of the posts so I can continue to be up-to-date with all the advances in lucid dreaming. Thinking, using common sense, cynical people would be good at becomming lucid in dreams. After all aren't cynical people constantly questioning things during the waking life? What I try to do is to be a forced cynical person to myself. Any odd situation I try to perform a reality test then and there. I work at a golf course and I would say that 2 days a week I have a dream involving the golf course. I don't know WHY I can't achieve lucidity well yet but I just started a month ago so I guess it's not that bad. I have had 2 very brief lucid dreams so far. They both came after I woke up and quickly went back to sleep. If anyone has any tips or suggestions for lucid dreaming send them over to me! thanks.

John

Hi all fellow dreamers. I would like to share with you a new technique for reality testing. It worked for me. I "fished" it out from Castaneda's book: "The art of dreaming". This technique I used in the hypangogic state. I simply tried to STOP the visions - to freez them, than I concentrated at one object. I the scene is stoped, that I knew it was a dream. I hope it'll work out for you :)

I've noticed that, for me, when first falling asleep, I seem to be able to go into the lucid dream state easier by concentrating on the rhythm and sound of my own breathing for awhile. It seems to become more pronounced, almost hollow and louder sounding. It is very difficult sometimes to "decide" if I am in fact sleeping, or just dozing off and thinking that I am in the lucid state. I am usually tired anyway.

I begin to notice other things about my physical body too. It is like my involuntary muscles take over, and I experience the sensation of feeling it happen. My voluntary controls relax and turn things over to autopilot.

It requires more of a "conscious" effort for me to move my leg for example (Is this a true oxymoron? How can I "consciously" move my leg if asleep?) I can still move it, but if I were just sleeping, and not in the lucid state, there would be no reason to move my leg, other than trying to see if I can from within the lucid state. I hope I am not sounding confusing.

Once I'm in this mode, it is not long that I notice, or rather decide, that I am actually asleep, but still cognizant or aware of myself sleeping. The line that is crossed is very subtle indeed, almost transparent. I then have a brief time to "choose a dream path."

I don't know if this is a helpful observation or if anyone else notices this with their own breathing as well but I wanted to share it with the group for discussion.

Hi Nicholas I, too, use to concentrate in my breathing to get into deeper trance just before going to sleep. If I am not too tired I can witness the dream starts. The most amazing dream I saw was when I realized that I am controlling the content of the dream and I saw my thoughts transformed into visions. However, I find it hard to keep consciousness for a long time. I found, it works for me but I don't know if it'll work for anybody else, that when a character in a dream smiles at me I realize it to be a dream easier than other test realities. I also found that when my dream body smiles, it helps me prolong the lucidity time of my dream.

BTW: equilibrium is a state of death. The steady stae is the chemical state of life (and therefore, I think, of change)

sweet dreams Yosseph

Here is a missed reality test from last Saturday night. I'm a passenger in an ambulance driven by Nicolas Cage. Deciding to practice state testing, I look out the window and focus on text, which is totally illegible, changing and warping. "That's not a good example," I think, "That text looks exactly the way text looks in a dream." I try to find some other text, something on the ambulance itself, but I think I get distracted. D'OH!! When I woke up I thought this was very funny, and made a mental note that, the next time I see text warping the way it does in a dream, I should suspect that I may actually be dreaming! (Especially if I happen to be in an ambulance with Nicolas Cage at the time.)

This morning I had a dream which as far as reality testing is concerned, is a sort of thematic sequel to the above:

6:21 A.M., Mon, Dec 21, 1999 "Exploring My Apartment Building" [excerpt]

I'm in my apartment, some of my stuff is jumbled around, and I'm either getting ready to go to bed or get up. I do a few reality tests, but do them absent-mindedly, not really paying attention or doing them properly. Then I think sternly to myself, "No! If you're going to do a reality test, do it properly!" I look to the alarm clock by my bed, and see a strange, large, beetle-like bug on my pillow which I find a bit alarming, somewhat ameliorated by my suspicion at this point that I'm dreaming. I look to the digital clock and see it instantly shrink down to an extremely tiny size, displaying '11', and know that I am dreaming. I decide this time to leave my apartment and see what my building looks like in dreamland...

[So far, digital clocks have been the dreamsign most likely to induce lucidity in me, though this is the first time I've encountered an Incredibly Shrinking Alarm Clock.]

So here I am in the library, perusing the New Fiction shelf when "More Bread or I'll Appear" catches my eye. I reach for the book, hoping its story might be as intriguing as the title and begin reading the inside front cover. It's the second paragraph that makes both my eyes go wide:

"Fifteen years later, Molly persuades the youngest and most reliable of her five children, Keelin, to put her life on hold and search for Aisling. Traveling the world with various of her siblings, Keelin learns that each is cursed with their father's affliction -- "the doubting disease", as they call it. In one way or another, each is alternately paralyzed and compelled to perform irrational acts."

Suddenly I feel a case of my own "doubting disease" coming on. I feel paralyzed by the strangeness of the passage, followed by a compelling need to perform what most people would consider an irrational act (i.e.: a reality check). I'm thinking: "This is ODD!" And there's my cue* to do a state check. Having reading material in hand makes this easy, yet I find it difficult to believe I'm not dreaming. A few more re-readings and I have to admit that this is, after all, just waking reality.

Now I'm wondering: Like most folks, I suspect that when watching a film or reading a story, there's a natural tendency to mentally merge a wee bit with the main character. But I always know "that's not me" in the 'real' sense. Yet, in my dreams, more often than not, I don't recognize that "that's not me", but rather a dream version of me. So if while reading this novel I keep reminding myself that this "Keelin" character is not me, will the habit carry over into my dreams and thus increase the chances of becoming lucid? I guess "we" shall just have to wait and see...

Just another character in your dreams, Keelin

• This refers to the habit of combining a common verbal response to uncommon events with a reality check. My initial response to anomalous events, whether awake or adream, appears to be the exclamation: "How ODD!". If I follow this judgement call with the question: "How ODD is it? (i.e.: is this odd enough to mean I might be dreaming?) and then do a reality check, this critical thinking keeps me in a reflective mode longer and strengthens the habit of state testing. This habit has carried over into my dream life and, more than once, has led to lucidity.

As a new adventurer into LDs, I've been reading a lot, state testing everytime I turn around (in waking life anyway. Although my dream self hasn't quite got the hang of it), and practicing MILD and WILD just about every night. I'm starting to be 1000% more aware of what's going on in my dreams as well as just before I fall asleep and actually begin dreaming. This gray area just before I fall asleep, when I'm practicing WILD in the middle of the night, is where I'm needing some feedback.

I'm having little trouble monitoring the hypnogogic images as I drift back to sleep and then staying with whatever imagery starts to develop. Early this morning was a good example. I was supposed to be getting up for the morning, but stayed quietly in bed a few minutes to reflect on the dreams I remembered from the night. As I did so, I found myself replaying a dream in my head and "participating" in the dream that I was recalling. The dream shifted into an entirely new dream and I was playing along with what was developing. Suddenly, I thought to myself, "Hey, I'm not supposed to be dreaming and asleep. I need to get up for work." And promplty opened my eyes and got out of bed.

As I thought about what had just taken place, it raised a question for me. Was I, just before I decided to get up, actually about to have a sucessful WILD experience, or just daydreaming?

I've been working diligently on entering LDs for several weeks now and working just about every angle. In that time, I've had only one whopping revelation that I was dreaming that allowed me to really become lucid, and the NovaDreamer cue'd it. Lately, I seem to be having more and more interesting dream-like experiences that I can't quite justify as lucid, but are evidently more than just my normal dreams. Am I working in the right direction, or just paying more attention to what has always been there?

Somebody give me a warm fuzzy that I'm not spinning my dream-wheels.

JT

Hi Keelin!

Good story! As I read your posting, I had to re-read the text a few times because the line "yet I find it difficult to believe I'm not dreaming" seemed anomolous. I was sure that what you were describing was from a dream, and therefore you would have found it hard to believe that you were not awake! When I finally realized that you were writing about a waking experience, I was struck as you must have been by the surreality of it!

I better do a reality test on that one!... Nope. I'm not dreaming... Sure seems like it though...

Best regards,

Les

Dear James,

Your question about whether you were on your way into a WILD or simply daydreaming is a difficult one to answer. That particular zone can be hard to define, wavering as it may between hypnagogia, which can be a strong indication of dream onset, and active, vivid imagining.

Recently, I've been participating in a sleep onset experiment for Lucidity Institute and have been paying much closer attention to this area, recording experiences such as you've described. Since my imagination skills are fairly well developed, rating the various aspects of the experience (on the report form) can be challenging. Still, it's a fascinating study and I'm excited to be involved in it. When I read over some of these accounts, I know, without a doubt, that I'd not have remembered them beyond the brief moments in which they took place if I were not committed to the experiment. Some of the imagery has been stunning and quite emotionally moving, even though the actual length of each experience has been relatively short.

I realize I've not given you any definitive answer here, but hope, nonetheless, that you will be encouraged to continue exploring your own episodes in this area. Perhaps in time, you may find a clear differentiation within the spectrum of your personal experiences.

On another note, your account is a wonderful example of how well the WILD technique may serve those who awaken from nightmares. The ability to re-enter a dream with awareness and re-script the outcome can be tremendously therapeutic.

Wishing you all the wonderful, albeit fuzzy, WILD moments you desire, Keelin

PS: a note in response to Les:

Glad you were able to experience what I was feeling -- vicariously! Indeed, how thin that line 'tween the realms can be. Exciting, isn't it?

[The following is an update to an earlier post...]

So I'm reading along in Emer Martin's novel "More Bread or I'll Appear" about that "Keelin" character who journeys off in search of her wild sister Aisling. Along the way, the author informs us that "Aisling" is the celtic word for DREAM.

Well, that makes sense, I think, and feel the slight merging with the main character that I referred to in my earlier post.

When at last the sisters are reunited, it happens like this: Keelin walks out of the Sea towards Aisling and her first thoughts are "Am I you? Are you me?"

Am I dreaming?

Forever in search of her own wild Aislings, Keelin

Wow, Keelin - I'm impressed! You've got the dreamiest little synchronicity going with that novel... :)

Dear Dream Friends,

... So here I am working on the update of a guidebook for New York city when I read about this fancy, new hotel:

"W New York $$$$ ... an all-out retreat from the concrete jungle, the new David Rockwell-designed W New York is a great place to bed down.... Guest rooms...feature such ostensibly restorative touches as sheets lined with inspirational sayings (such as 'Dream with Lucidity') and slender planters brimming with grass -- along with watering cans."

And I'm thinking: Wow, cool sheets! I wonder if they sell them?

So I dial the number for the hotel's gift shop and get a recorded menu for some obscure business. (How odd! :-?) This gives me a chance to do a reality check (telephones are notorious for misbehaving in my dreams), all the while feeling thankful that I don't have to say to a real person, "Excuse me, can you hold a moment while I check to see if I'm dreaming?"

To my surprise, it's just a case of mis-dialing fingers. When I do reach the right number, the sales person tells me she'll check into it and promises to get back to me in the near future. She gets noticeably quiet when I tell her why I find those sheets so interesting....

Well, Hotel W sounds like my kind of place (although I could only afford to stay there in my dreams). And wouldn't it be a trip and a half if beside the little chocolate on the pillow, one would find a NovaDreamer?

This whole episode brings back the memory of a dream from years ago in which I observed a young woman who had woken mid-night to record her dreams. When she ran out of pages in her journal, she just kept writing on the sheets. The scene cut to morning and there she was, completely cocooned in the bedding. "That girl is all wrapped up her dreams," I wrote on the last page of my own journal...

Wishing you all those special moments when waking life gets downright dreamy, Keelin

Hello, I am a new member of the forum. I have been trying hard to induce lucid dreams now for about two months using reality/critical state testing techniques as described in Stephen LaBerge's book, but with no success so far. I should say it has taken me this long to get a picture of what might be my best dreamsigns and on what other occasions I might usefully test my state, so I appreciate that I should not be too impatient. It appears that my best dreamsign will be mild anxiety relating to being late, or having lost something.

I have one, to me, striking finding that I would appreciate comment on. I can clearly see now elements of my dreams that can be traced to events the day before, I do not believe that these are chance resemblances. For example yesterday I saw in the street a long-not-seen working acquaintance, and I was slightly agitated because I did not want to speak to him particularly. Then last night in my dreams he tried to sell me a pink house on a hill, and later I noticed him in a restaurant where I was having breakfast. Yesterday I noticed in my house a downstairs window that was easy to enter from outside and needed fixing and I mentioned this to my wife. Last night I dreamt of an intruder entering the window of a hotel room where I was staying.

My question is this? Why do these one-off and fairly trivial things appear in my dreams so readily? Now for the last two months I have looked countless times at my "am I dreaming card", jumped up and down repeatedly trying to take off, and reflected a lot about the waking and dreaming states. Yet nothing comes through to my dreams. (Well I should say twice I engaged dream characters in brief conversations about dreaming.)

My feeling is that it might have something to do with fact that I need stimulation from other humans in the waking world to get something through to the dream world. I don't get this with my state testing. There is a parallel with my work. Although I spend much of my life carrying out mental activities on specific problems relating to my profession this seems never to come through to dreams.

Has anyone any suggestions please?

Owen

Dear Owen,

Your question about reality testing and day residue is exactly the type of inquiry that often comes up at Lucidity Institute's annual "Dreaming and Awakening" workshop (aka: Lucid Dream Camp) -- from which I've just returned. It was a very thought-provoking ten days and I'm delighted to come home and find similar wonderings here on the Forum as well. So thank you for posting your question. I'm certain others have "wondered" along the same path.

In response to your question regarding the "one-off, trivial things" appearing more readily in your dreams than evidence of your focused efforts with reality testing:

Perhaps these "trivial things" actually had more impact than at first glance. Both accounts included emotional reactions -- agitation and (implied) vulnerability. It might be that these emotions, easily brushed aside at the time, resurfaced in your dreams for closer inspection, incorporating themselves in novel, dreamlike fashion.

What I find most interesting and encouraging about this, however, is that you've mentioned your awareness of mild anxiety being a common dream sign for you. With this in mind, it might help to broaden the category and include any situation which triggers a distinct, unpleasant emotion for you. Watch for these emotions during the day, reflect on them prior to going to sleep, and be on guard for them as you drift off to dreamland. If you already have the habit and expectation that these emotions will replay themselves, you'll be much more likely to identify them as dream signs.

It might also help to become aware of how you respond in waking life whenever you're feeling anxious, agitated, vulnerable, etc. If you have a particular phrase that you utter, you can work this into your habit of reality testing. For example, my initial response to anomalous events, whether awake or adream, is the exclamation: "How odd!" If I follow this judgement call with the question: "How odd is it?" (ie: is it odd enough to mean I might be dreaming?) and then do a reality check, this holds me in a reflective mode longer and strengthens the habit of state testing. And when this habit carries over into dreaming, the Land of Odd is just where I want to be.

Hope these comments have been helpful, Keelin

Dear Owen,

There are more comments about day residue under the Forum topic "Aspects of the Dream State: The Importance of Day Residue" which you may find of further interest.

• Keelin

Dear Keelin,

Thanks for your comments and advice. I am thinking about a suitable phrase I could articulate to adapt the suggestion in your "How Odd" paragraph to my situation. I will also endeavour to study systematically past forum posts.

Just now I am doing some reading on prospective memory as I am convinced that in my case the ability to remember future intentions is a KEY skill I must improve. I started in July with the reflection/intention technique described by Stephen LaBerge. I decided to do the technique each time I began a conversation.

Extremely difficult!! The emotion and concentration of the initiation of the conversation seems to completely knock from me the remembering of my intention to test my state. I was amazed by this. I tried to use a cue, checking to see if people are wearing spectacles, this helped a bit. I want to persevere with this, because I converse with people several times most nights in my dreams. I am determined to see if I can bully and harass myself so that the habit to test my state on this occasion becomes totally ingrained, as though it had been my habit from infancy.

I have just started to experiment with a trick relating to prospective memory. If I miss the target, then when I do remember a bit later I exaggerate the annoyance, frustration and anxiety and because this is one of my dreamsigns, I test my state. How about that for beating the gremlin?

Regards,

Owen

Hello everybody, am new to this forum and look forward to learning and sharing experiences with others interested in LDs and related subjects.

I have a comment / question on reality testing. In my past experience of lucid dreams I had the best results in remembering to sincerely test state by creating dreamsigns and waiting for them to appear in dreams - a sort of use of day residue as mentioned in Owen's / Keelin's posts. I find that making a change in daily waking habit for the express purpose of creating a dreamsign makes me far more likely to note the sign and achieve lucidity when it appears, especially if I have no direct control over how frequently the sign will turn up in my daily routine. I assume this is due to having established an expectation in waking life that you will see your chosen sign in the dream and know you are dreaming as a result.

To give one of my most successful examples, I found that if I watched TV most / every day as a habit then by avoiding TV completely - not even staying in a room where there was a TV on - and always doing a sincere and detailed state test coupled with thinking 'If I don't watch TV and am seeing one am I dreaming?' every time I saw a screen turned on, I could reliably use seeing a TV in a dream to achieve lucidity. You can always record any shows you can't stand to miss!!

Has anyone else found similar results / used the same or a similar method to create an 'artificial' dreamsign with any success? As a side note to the above example, I also noted the visual quality of my (nonlucid) dreams and dream recall frequency improved markedly within approximately two days of not watching any TV - don't ask me why...

Any feedback and help gratefully accepted, Regards

Andrew

Reflection-Intention technique of LaBerge

I am a bit confused about this technique, described in Stephen LaBerge's book "Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming', pages 70-72. He suggests that this as a very successful technique so I am trying to use it, but have a problem as described below.

The headings for the four steps in the technique are as follows.

1. Plan when you intend to test your state
2. Test your state
3. Imagine yourself dreaming
4. Imagine doing what you intend to do in your lucid dream

In brief, you test your state at step 2, and if awake conclude, "Yes I'm awake now but what would it be like if I were dreaming?' Then in step 3 you imagine that everything around you is a dream, then in step 4 you imagine carrying out a lucid dream action, eg flying. At the ends of steps 3 and 4 you resolve to remember to recognise that you are dreaming etc.

My question concerns steps 3 and 4. Should I simply imagine I am in a dream, imagine I become lucid and imagine that I am flying. Or should I carry out a further state test prior to imagining that I have become lucid. Well, it would seem logical for a novice like me to do this test given that I am imagining that I am dreaming. But if so, how do I do the test? Do I actually jump in the air and imagine that I am floating down more slowly than I actually do ' this is difficult given that I will have already landed! Or do I imagine that I jump in the air and float down ' I don't like this because it does not square with the little dreaming play I am doing, I would be in a "dream" imagining that I am jumping. Or what about using my "Am I Dreaming" card. I take it out, look at it and see it says "Am I dreaming?' Then I turn away and then look back. The writing has not changed because I am awake, so am I then to imagine that the writing has changed so that I can imagine becoming lucid. Or, do I just imagine taking the card out of my pocket and looking at it twice, and imagine the writing changes on the second (or first?) occasion?

This confusion is interfering with my application of this test. This problem does not arise with the Intention technique (page 69 of the book) as in this technique everything is visualised with eyes closed.

Can anyone advise me please?

Owen

Hello Owen,

the mentioned technique is indeed very effective, and I've used it for quite some time. If you make a habit of asking yourselve wether you are dreaming or not several times a day, this habit will eventually pop up in your dream. For this technique to be most effective, truely question yourselve if you are dreaming, and be very sceptical about the state you are in (dreaming / non-dreaming). For when you are in a dream, it is not so easy to find out that you are dreaming, dreams (especially lucid dreams) can be extremely real. Looking at your card and reading it back is a good reality check, but this takes a small amount of time. At least check your state for about a minute or so. You have to imagine you are dreaming, just try to see everything around you as a dream, so that you become even more sceptical about the state you are in. You don't have to jump in the air, just focus on dreaming for a short while, so you're mind is set on the right topic during the day, and it will eventually be during your dreams. I had a lot of lucid dreams thanks to this technique. I hope this is clear enough, my english is not so great at the moment... Have LD's!

greets, Owen (my name's owen too =)

Owen

Thanks!

Owen

Owen,

I have resolved to take your advice to spend longer checking my state.

Also I think I solved my earlier confusion. As written in the book, the intention technique (and also the MILD technique) does not involve a critical state test, but rather relies on the recognition of dreamsigns to induce lucidity. Thus there is not a second critical state test in the reflection-intention technique. By contrast the critical state testing technique (pages 61-61) does not necessarily need dreamsigns. A state test can be carried out when experiencing 'awake like' recurrrent events. I see quite a few normal dogs in my dreams so I use seeing a dog when awake as a cue to test my state. I had further confusion previously because I was incorrectly calling dogs one of my dreamsigns, partly because early in my dream journal I recorded some metamorphosing dogs.

I believe that I have made some slow progress since starting in July. Last week I had what I recognised as a brief flash of lucidity but awoke almost immediately. I have also had three false awakenings involving writing in my dream journal which I keep by my bed. More importantly I think my determination to test my state (using writing) whenever I begin a conservation is paying off. I'm definitely beginning to see a lot of written material and talking to more people in my dreams. I do do my state tests seriously, but quickly. But now I'll begin to spend more time on them.

I'm amazed that although I'm improving I'm still missing this cue quite often, yet I have no problem 'hitting' dogs or my car. Perhaps there is something deeply ingrained, and perhaps of survival value, that tends to makes us focus on the conversation rather than on other unrelated intentions.

Owen

Reality testing and hands

I think I'm making some progress now. Today 1 October just before getting up, I was frustrated because I had been attempting MILD trying and failing to get back into the dream I had just had; always a new non-lucid dream instead. Then,

"I am driving along the road leading to my place of work. Suddenly I realise I am going full speed on the pavement (walkway), not the road. I must get back on the road. Then I recognise that I am in fact on the road but the scene is strange, unusual buildings with a yellowish hue. I realise I must be dreaming. The scene changes, I am still driving in a flat landscape with stone buildings, again yellowish. I see a vast expanse of horizon in front of me. I feel I am in the desert. I believe I am dreaming but I decide to test my state by holding up and looking at my hands twice and see if I can make my wedding ring change. I have slight concern that this action is dangerous while driving but decide it is alright because a dream. As I try to hold up my hands everything goes black, then I see elements of the scene as through a darkened glass, very vague. I glimpse my left hand with wedding ring.' And I then awoke.

I started the hands action only a week ago as a state test, but it came to mind first in the dream before jumping or looking at writing. I started hands because I heard of the Castaneda technique. I also read of the state test to make small things change, hence the ring. Please could someone comment, have I made a mistake to assume that my ring, like writing will distort??

Owen

Dear Owen,

From the account you've shared, it sounds like you were already aware that you were dreaming and that what you were actually attempting to test were your dream control skills, as opposed to your state. Lucidity and dream control are not the same thing. It is possible to have a high degree of lucidity, to know without a doubt that everything you're seeing is a mental construct, and still have absolutely no ability to magically manipulate the dream environment. It's also possible to have dream control without awareness that you're dreaming.

The most reliable state test appears to be the reading of text two to three times, looking away from the writing in between each reading. The instability of written words within dreaming has to do with the fact that language is a rather complex construction. The words we read in dreamland only exist as a freshly created mental image with no external reality to support them. It is therefore quite challenging for our brains to create an exact replication once we've turned our gaze in a different direction and virtually created something else to look at, however momentarily.

And while there is this notable instability inherent in the dream world, staring at your hands to determine whether or not you're dreaming is not a reliable test because your hands could look perfectly normal, or you may accept a false memory (of having gotten a tattoo, for example). Even if they've morphed a bit, there is a strong tendency to accept what we see as our familiar bodies without further questioning. There is also an additional disadvantage to staring in general, as the lack of active engagement with the environment may cause the dream to fade.

With all this said, (and please let me know if I've misinterpreted your question), developing dream control skills can be a fun challenge while it reinforces our understanding of how malleable the dream world can be. So if that is your intent, I wish you many magical manipulations and more wondrous explorations. And congratulations too, on the progress you've been making with your lucid dreaming endeavors!

Keelin

Dear Keelin,

Thanks for answering my question on 'hands', and also explaining the difference between lucidity and dream control which I had not yet grasped.

I had a much much better 'first' lucid ream which I just posted. I am pleased with this.

I am still very puzzled why I do not have non-lucid dreams about testing my state given that I I have done this 20 or more times a day for 3 months and done it seriously, yet other trivial (to me) residue comes through all the time. Do you think it could be because my state testing generates little visual impact on me. I vaguely recall reading something about mirrors and lucid dreams. Do you think it would help if I tested my state more often in front of a mirror?

Best wishes,

Owen

Hi Owen,

You certainly 'seem' to be doing the right things to get a lucid dream, i.e. reality testing (during reality!) but maybe, just maybe, your mind has just become so used to this that even if you end up having a vivd dream, you may find yourself doing a reality test and assuming that you're awake convince yourself that this is reality and not acheive lucidity. I found that when I first got into this subject and doing all the reading around the subject (including Stephen LaBerge's book you're reading now) I had lots of vivid dreams, many of which were lucid, but as I got used to the idea, and the initial novelty and excitement wore off, it was harder and harder to have a lucid experience. I'm sure that this is a fairly common experience amongst oneironauts and all I can suggest is that you maybe relax and leave your reality testing for a while, before returning to it with a renewed vigour and enthusiasm in a few weeks time. It would appear that the brain can't be forced/blackmailed into acheiving lucidity and often just by not trying to force it, will you find that it may come! And of course another way to increase your chances are to keep in with Forum's just like these which constantly stimulate one to think about dreams. I presume you keep a dream journal and have good dream recall? Until these skills are mastered you stand little chance of really having regular lucid dreams, and what could be more infuriating than actually having a lucid dream but not being able to remember it when you wake up?!!

Anyway, keep us informed of your progress - we're all after the same thing and it's always great to hear when others have discovered what the rest of us know can be a life changing experience!

Cheers,

Nick (West Sussex)

Dear Owen,

By all means, if you find yourself in front of a mirror, it wouldn't hurt to take a good, long, critical (as in reality checking ;->) look. But you'll have to be careful not to be fooled by the strikingly accurate reflection you might find there. Still, you can try tests like reaching towards that charming fellow in the mirror and noting if the movements of both characters (remembering that, if you're in the Land of Odd, you too are a dream character!) are synchronized. And if your various hands should meet, I'd suggest a good, vigorous handshake to sustain your state through the initial thrilling rush of lucidity.

See you there? Keelin

PS: And if that fellow in the mirror looks a wee bit too stressed, I'd follow Nick's sage advice to lighten up and trust that you're still moving in the right direction.

Dear Keelin, Yes I have taken the advice, I've had a week off completely from testing, but today got back to work. I have incorporated your mirror test into my routine.

I have had a bad time. Insomnia for a couple of days combined with occasional panic that I would never be able to sleep again! Never really had this before in my life. I think it was caused by trying MILD too hard, wanting too much to succeed. The posts on the insomnia thread were reassuring and useful to me and the problem now seems to be over. Perhaps I had a sleep debt because of nocturnal journal writing and was getting too stressed out.

From your experience at the Summer School do you find that beginners have difficulties with temporary insomnia trying MILD?

Best wishes,

Owen

Dear Owen,

At the Dreaming and Awakening workshops, we take advantage of the mandatory early morning naps to give participants a chance to practice the MILD technique. As you may know, research has shown Nap + MILD to be a very effective combination. The reason this works so well is that the body is still craving sleep while the mind is alert enough to focus on setting the intention to recognize the next dreaming episode.

At camp, there are always a few folks who have trouble falling back asleep once they've awakened. This may be due to the unfamiliar setting, or they may be over-stimulated (dream camp is a mentally provocative experience!) or they're simply trying too hard. What we suggest for these oneironauts is that they set their "wake time" (prior to the nap) earlier than the Nap Technique instructions dictate (for example, estimating sometime after their third REM period).

Personally, I've found that MILD works best for me after I've awoken from a dream in the wee hours of the morning (3:30 - 4am). If I can wake fully (getting out of bed for a few minutes helps), when I'm ready to return, I'm then able to use the MILD technique in a relaxed state, knowing I have plenty of time to fall back asleep before rising for the day.

Hope these comments are helpful, Keelin

Dear Keelin,

Thanks for the advice. I am waking myself up completely earlier in the morning now when I write in my dream journal. Gradually I am gaining confidence that I will get back to sleep. In October I had a few night where I could not recall any dreams, this alarmed me, but it comes back. Soon I will experiment with actually getting up for half an hour. I am also keeping my journal only every two or three nights, having a rest so that I can recover from the disrupted sleep patterns, otherwise I find it too exhausting. The MILD technique is NOT EASY. Searching the last dream for dreamsigns, then concentrating on the intention to recognize that one is dreaming, then trying to fall asleep, requires practice, for me anyway it will. But I had a couple more lucid dreams recently, I posted these with a query about them elsewhere in the forum. It is getting a bit boring doing all these state tests when I am awake.

The five lucid dreams I have had since the end of September seem to be associated with me recognizing something odd (although I cannot be sure that I did not become lucid first and then attributed oddness to whatever candidate dreamsign was at hand):

A strange automobile Driving on the pavement (walkway) Seeing my dead Grandmother Being given a bowl of breakfast cereal by a work colleague Strange writing and colours in my dream journal

This in itself is odd (to me) because it is only recently that I have started to go after dreamsigns. Previously I had been carrying out the intention-reflection technique on certain normal cues eg getting in my car; when I begin a conversation; when I see a dog. My assumption has been that if I could form this habit when awake it would transfer to my dreams where I do these things plenty. Not a hope after four months effort! I do not think it is a case of poor prospective memory. I NEVER miss a dog when I am awake (although I admit I am often distracted when speaking to people). So it seems to me that recognition of dreamlike things is beginning to trigger lucidity, but I am not being triggered to do a state test by seeing a dog in my dreams though I NEVER fail to remember to do this when awake. This puzzles me and I wonder if I should just focus on searching for oddness while I am awake. I have the impression from reading your posts on the forum that you do this. What do you think, should I persevere with or change my strategy?

Best wishes,

Owen

Dear Owen,

By all means, I'd recommend doing what works for you! If "dreamlike things" are inspiring you to question your state, you can still incorporate the intention-reflection exercise by vowing to do a reality check every time your "dream-like" antenna snags on an oddity in waking life.

In my experience, keeping an eye out for those waking life anomalies increases the amusement of being on this side of dreaming. They are certainly plentiful and sometimes just as bizarre as those of the dreaming variety. And I still use the exclamation/question phrase "How odd!--How odd?", followed, of course, by a sincere reality check, whenever a curious occasion arises. Because this has become a fairly automatic response, I say it in dreamland too -- and then the real (or is it beyond real?) fun begins!

With a nod to the odd, Keelin

Dear fellow dreamers

A refreshing message for reality - testers

I started a new row of reality - checks and reflection intention - exercises in the first days of March. My aim: If target situation appears, I say (loudly) "Odd! How odd?" ( ' by Keelin) then do RC/RI.

Today, the word "Odd" for the first time entered a dream during a nap, and I became lucid, just in time to stop my car being drowned in a river in Australia. Maybe I wanted to visit Alan T., but I don't remember exactly. Another benefit of LDs: Driving gets safer. Visiting foreign countries is much easier. ;-) I wanted to achieve four LD in March, this is #3. (January: 3 February: 0) I've done circa two RI and four RC per day since beginning of month. I remembered circa 1,5 dreams per night. Average DSA rating increased from 0,4 in February (no RC/RI) to 1,1.

Another discovery: Reality checking is a lot of fun.

Keep on checking

Yours Ralf

Spinning - direction of?

Which direction do you spin? I spin clockwise from above, this is how it feels. I am interested to know whether this might have any relationship to handedness or laterality within the brain.

I have now used spinning successfully several times recently to induce LDs. Before going to sleep I focus on spinning as the MILD lucid task....I fall asleep and the next thing I know I am spinning.

I have experimented with reversing the direction of spinning. The first time I failed, came to halt.

The second time I felt a kind of disorientation/dizziness and as the spinning reversed a dream scene appeared. This happened on the next occasion.

However the last time I spun, which was to try to rescue an LD, I found myself spinning clockwise. When I reversed, the transition occured smoothly and I remained in the dark.

Owen

Dear fellow dreamers

Here is another funny one, concerning reality - testing:

Ich tr'ume doch nicht! 14042001 #NT #DSA2 #RC #Micha #Tr'umen I'm not dreaming! 14042001 #ND #DSA2 #RC #Micha #Dreaming

I'm walking in the street with Micha, a friend of mine. We are arriving at a bus stop. Some people are waiting for a bus. Unthinking I throw my cigarette away. Accidentally it hits a woman, standing at the bus stop. I walk over to her and apologise to her. She is not angry and says: "This has been no attack at a speed more than 160km per hour. Thus it hasn't been criminal." I enter a shop and think about this strange situation. Time for a RC. I read a word. Look away, read again. Writing stays stable. I look inside myself and am just testing my memory, as Micha gives me a kick: "Are you dreaming?" I reply: "No, I'm just doing a RC." How devious of him, to suspect I'm dreaming. Is he suspecting, that I dreamt about the nice women at the bus stop? Devious.

I had myself a grin, concerning my critical consciousness muddling up dreaming and waking reality. Some of you won't believe it, but this is the second time, I ever remember doing a state check while dreaming, although I have practised state checking for many month. Why did I do it tonight? Yesterday I had a longer talk with my girlfriend concerning RC - practice. She wondered, if I do RC to rigid, if my expectations, my aims are too high, if I build up hindrances in this way. There is truth in her words, as I sometimes try too hard. But I insisted in a systematic approach to LD, because I want to increase LD frequency, I want to have LD at will. This is a specific, high goal, that requires a specific technique. I feel my way being justified, relying on the experiences of LI - folks and many lucid dreamers. And it is justified, because I can prove, that average DSA - rating increases, while I'm focussing on RC/RI - practice. But the discussion had an effect: I changed my affirmation concerning RC while dreaming: The old version: "If anything seems odd, the next time I'm dreaming, I say: "Odd! How odd? RC!" and perform RC." The new version only deviates in the phrase: "..., I will remember to say: "Odd! ..." ..." This has been, what SLB pointed out concerning MILD. M means Mnemonic. Seems more efficient to address memory in my affirmation. But there is more for me to learn concerning this dream. It points out, that I should not let myself being distracted from a RC - exercise. This is what often happens in daytime RC - practice: I loose my focus while doing RC, because I don't retreat from actual situation. This dream convinces me to "rigid" retreat from situation and do my RC.

Any further hints and comments are welcome

In the name of Mnemosyne(*): Remember...

Yours

Oh, I forgot my name

(*)Mnemosyne: Uranos' daughter, the Muses are daughters of Zeus and Mnemosyne, her name means: Memory. But as far as, I remember, she is a rather forgotten goddess.

Dear Owen and Ralf and Fellow Dreamers,

Owen: You've asked an interesting question about spinning ("Which direction do you spin?"). If I recall correctly, I tend to spin to the right in dreams, but I don't know if it has anything to do with my being right-handed. I'll pose your question to Stephen LaBerge and see if he has any input on this.

In some dreams, my body remains in a basically vertical position, and anchored at the feet, moves in a conical fashion. And in this case, I believe the direction is to the left. I find this sensation quite pleasurable and less disorienting than twirling.

In the meantime, perhaps we could take an informal survey of our fellow oneironauts?

Any other spinners out there?

Ralf: Thanks for sharing your very funny dream. Maybe you could send your friend (who asks so directly -- or "deviously" as you put it -- if you're dreaming) over to see Owen. I understand he's looking for a few good dream characters.

Sweet dreams to all, Keelin