I've had this happen a lot to me recently: In my dream, I'll feel so tired that I end up falling asleep or passing out.

Anybody else?

I've heard of a good few people who are exhausted during the day (for whatever reason) having dreams where they are tired, napping, or are falling asleep/passing out.  I've never experienced it myself, but I've heard of it.

I've felt very tired in dreams; I had that some last night which I just recalled when I read this, but then in the next dream I was full of energy.  Sometimes it seems to happen when I'm extra tired, but other times it seems to happen as a result of like real body-awareness; like I wake up and the covers are wrapped around me uncomfortably or something.

I have gone to sleep in a dream, but I can't remember passing out.  I have read other people's DJ's and seen that, I think.

Sometimes I mistake the feeling of dreaming with the feeling of being groggy.  I don't typically go to sleep in my dreams though.

Strongest Tools of Control (in my experience): •   Confidence •   Imagination

If you think you can do it, you can; but you can’t think of doing it without thinking it up first.

Confidence is probably the more obvious of the two; if you don’t doubt yourself, your subconscious won’t either. Imagination, on the other hand, is a harder thing to come by. I guess I’m a bit biased, but I think that the strongest abilities are the ones you come up with on your own. A copied ability is harder to control and difficult to use to its full extent, not to mention boring. Regardless of what kind of ability you want to use, the first step in using it is to understand how it works. I’ll use my barriers as an example:

I came up with the idea of using barriers about four years ago, but I didn’t originally intend for them to be used in dreams. To start, they were going to be a sort of defense mechanism to calm myself down when I felt one of those creepy feelings that you get when you feel like something’s watching you. You know that feeling you get when you’re excited and you feel this sweeping tingling through your body that starts at your center, near your heart? Well, I’ve been able to do that on command for as long as I can remember, so I focused my barrier on my center and imagined the barrier starting as a small orb around it and then bursting out into a sphere around me when the tingling feeling shot out. When I did that, I would picture the barrier around me in my head in as much detail as possible. That was the hardest part, really, because you have to picture it in a sphere and not a dome. Spheres are a pain in the butt. Anyway, after picturing it and holding it steady in my mind, I would shoot out more layers to it to expel anything that might be in the barrier that I didn’t want to be there. Once it was stable and I had shot out layers until the creepy feeling was gone, I just stored that mental image of the barrier in the back of my mind and tried not to let it fade. After a while, I could store it without a problem and keep it on for long periods of time. I started using them in dreams unintentionally. At first they were hard to make because I was used to triggering them with a sensation in my body and I had to reach to my body in order to use them. I also had trouble making them sturdy enough to block attacks (there’s a funny story about one of those instances; I might talk about it some other time). About a year after I developed them, I started having problems visualizing my barriers (because sending out a solid sphere is a pain in the butt). A few months ago, I came up with a different method of using them; one that was rooted entirely in my mind so that I wouldn’t have to reach to my body if I wanted to use them in dreams. This method has been working wonderfully in dreams, but isn’t as effective in real life. Eh, I’ll keep working on it and maybe someday I’ll be able to eat my cake too.

But, yeah; things you want to use in dreams work best, in my experience, if you have a solid understanding of them along with the confidence that you can do them. Hope this helps some. I’d love to hear about some of the abilities that you guys have come up with. c:

Thanks for the inspiring experience you shared.

I've always struggled with making any sort of barriers, until one night right after i read a story (on the internet) of a meditating monk who became invisible to demons by entering "samadhi" (a sort of pure state of mind). Some evil blobs were approaching in my dream and i didn't have much time to think, so i crouched down and meditated as hard as i could. LoL, i managed to become not only invisible, but they also could not sense my presence! Since then i've been using this method of 'intangibility' to avoid dream attacks. Despite this wonderful escape stratergy, i still hope to one day be brave enough to yield a magical sword which cuts all negativity.

Quote from: miss_maya on March 23, 2010, 01:48:27 AMThanks for the inspiring experience you shared.

I've always struggled with making any sort of barriers, until one night right after i read a story (on the internet) of a meditating monk who became invisible to demons by entering "samadhi" (a sort of pure state of mind). Some evil blobs were approaching in my dream and i didn't have much time to think, so i crouched down and meditated as hard as i could. LoL, i managed to become not only invisible, but they also could not sense my presence! Since then i've been using this method of 'intangibility' to avoid dream attacks. I've heard about that technique before, but never had the chance to use it.

QuoteDespite this wonderful escape stratergy, i still hope to one day be brave enough to yield a magical sword which cuts all negativity. That, I already had the chance to use, to destroy the evil Entity from the inside.

I agree with you Kar, pretty much how I developed a lot of my skills, from these, there are three that I created by thinking them out before trying, AoH, Dimensional Claw and Dimensional Teleportation (This one was explained by a DC though) AoH is a power made out of hate that I put into a part of myself, its uses vary a lot. DC can harm different parts of the same guy, and DT is teleporting through using organic material.

Some of the most powerful tools for control are strong emotions.

I think confidence is just an emotion.  If that's the case, then limiting yourself to confidence may not always be the best tool for the job, depending on the circumstances.  Of course it's the intensity of the emotion that determines how much effect it has.

What do you people think?  Is confidence an emotion?  What other options are there to classify it?

Hi everyone

I had a 1st time experience last night like now other before now. I was fully conscious and trying every trick in the book to get my vision. I tried looking for my hands, made commands, envisioned different locations, all to no avail. The most notable thing to me was both the Grey mist everywhere and an ultra strong gravitational pulling sensation downward. Now there was other stuff too as this really dragged on and all the while I was fully aware and frustrated. While reading an article at the Lucid Dream Exchange an author of a letter mentioned ( that empty “grey space” that so many dreamers have experienced )? I for one never had this happen but gather that is what it was. Also probably the gravitational pull was SP I failed to connect with. (I recall slight vibrations with warmth washing over my face at the end of it)

Curious to know if anyone here is familiar with this type of Grey Space?

Cheers ~ POL

Not until today, actually. I was walking around my dream with my eyes closed (only they weren't really) trying to fall asleep, so I could attempt a lucid dream x_x I was very sleepy during it.

We've called it "the void".  It's hard to get out of, but once use can be to have a conversation.  Try calling out and seeing if anybody is there, or asking a question and seeing if anybody responds.  You can have some weird conversations that way; I talked to three different people at the same time once.

I was just thinking about this yesterday... It's been a long time since i've been in the void, when i just started out with lucid dreaming i would experience it sometimes. I would sometimes to experience SP when i was in this void, i remember it was like if someone grabbed me by my feet and dragged me through this void, i did find it a somewhat enjoyable experience...

Also a couple of times my lucid dreams would end up in this place, first it would be a normal lucid dream, and then i would fly through the ceiling or something and suddenly everything would go to black, i couldn't get back into a normal LD after that... I'm glad that doesn't happen anymore, that was so frustrating!

I've never thought about trying to have conversations then, sounds interesting!

The voices say some weird stuff.    I haven't done it for a long time; I never seem to stay in a void for very long anymore like I used to.

I love the grey space - I've been calling it "the void" too.  but its not really empty - it's filled with potentiality. When I end up there (usually by melting through floors, going through mirrors, etc), I try to be receptive and meditate, basically account for my expectations and try to "wait."  what happens for me is the dream will often re-materialize around me.  and it's a dream I need to be in.... not always a pleasant dream, sometimes more like an initiation dream or dream that demands courage of me.  but if the dream is met like a challenge, the result can be really powerful esctatic feelings, feelings of love, and unity with the cosmos. the void is one of the greatest teachers of LDing.

"The Void" as I use the term, is much like what Ryan describes. I get there by passing through a solid object and "getting stuck". It can be interesting, if you relax and take it for what it is.

The last time I had this happen, I reached out, felt something gelatin like but sufficiently solid, ripped it open and walked through to a new scene. That was pretty surreal, and a very useful way to get out.

Oh yea, I forgot about the void of getting stuck; I usually try to get out of that so fast I don't have time to take advantage of it.  I'll try to remember next time that happens to stop for a few moments and see what's going on.

I guess confidence is an emotion, but it's never done much for me in the way of control.  I can perfectly expect something is going to happen without a doubt, and be surprised when it doesn't, so I know confidence is not the key for me.

For me, it's more just practice.  If I try a few times a few different ways, whatever I'm trying to do will usually start working.  Not everything; I'm still working on a few things.

Blimey. I've been there before, I do think.

Never knew it had a name or that others had experienced it. Kind of spooky. :3

yeah, not all voids are created equal.  sometimes I get stuck, sometimes it's like drifting through heavy waters, like sinking to the bottom of a warm lake.  other times it's infinitely spacious all around and the speed of travel accelerates... there are lights, like stars.  sometimes filaments. kaleidoscopes, mandalas, patterns made of bones, of teeth, of fruity pebbles... Ed Kellogg (from the PsiberDreaming con) talks about seeing mathematical equations in the void.  there's some good description of this level of hallucination (where iconic images interact with entoptics or pure geometric forms) in the work of cognitive archaeologist David Lewis Williams, by the way, especially his "Into the Cave"  -- his book about paleolithic cave art and altered states.

the first time I was dreaming, standing in the dream driveway of my childhood home. I dug through the cement with my hand, it was only 10cm deep if that. I peeled it back to reveal the dark stars underneath, glinting with potency.  I dropped through the hole and my dreambody disappeared as I crossed the dividing line from entity to... the ego core I guess, the "monocular" eye.  still thinking, feeling, very dualistic in the normal ways.  it was so alive tho, all around me,  surrounded by energy, then I woke up.

any other first stories?

I'm not sure if i've been to the "grey" space .. Usually its a black void for me, yet its not fully dead black, its very alive.

I don't remember if the first time for sure, but usually it is a swirly gray, any shade from almost white to almost black, and it can be like falling thru clowds.  I forgot, I also go into that if I get killed in a dream.  Rarely I've had the glowing filament-stuff, glowing grids, stuff like that, usually right before I wake up.

I forgot about the space-void; I've often gone into space, and that is like bright-black, if that makes sense, often with millions of beautiful colorful space-things:  ringed planets, nebula, colorful stars--like every beautiful space thing there is, but much more densely packed than in real space.  I didn't think about that as a void, because I can go places.  Maybe it's not a void.  A void is more like a place of the mind.

POL, I don't know if you're the brave (or insane ) type, but I, for one, embrace these types of dreams.  It seems like the conversation is going on about two different but related things here--voids, and high gravity heavy mist land, or whatever you wish to call it.

I often get the later, and it's just as you said.  Dragging yourself by your fingernails against impossibly oppressive gravity, triumphantly escaping outside (through a strange window, after slithering up the wall--or else crawling through a crack in the foundation) into a world of darkness and fog; cold wet hazy mist.  For brief seconds one may leap and the world lights up in such startling vividness as to bring tears of joy; you're free, and then..  Slammed into the ground again, to crawl like a broken and wretched reptile through a hell world.  The small stars floating on the ground mock you.

My point is that this can become incredibly terrifying, and one may find oneself stalked and tormented by demons, insanity, and general feelings of foreboding and ominousness.  It may even lead to ones dream-death, and here is where this experience and the void begin to overlap.  It's as if the void borders this world.

(This is where braveness and/or insanity come in.)  Let yourself go, to the demons, to death, to nothing; let your mind destroy itself.  You will experience a level of bliss that is inconceivable in a "normal" state.  You will never again fear anything in a dream, for you will know what can come of it.  You'll want it.  I won't even attempt to describe what happens..  But it has nothing to do with fear or insanity thereafter--it is, if anything, the complete opposite of them.

Quote from: mu on March 31, 2010, 03:31:27 AM(This is where braveness and/or insanity come in.)  Let yourself go, to the demons, to death, to nothing; let your mind destroy itself.  You will experience a level of bliss that is inconceivable in a "normal" state.  You will never again fear anything in a dream, for you will know what can come of it.  You'll want it.  I won't even attempt to describe what happens..  But it has nothing to do with fear or insanity thereafter--it is, if anything, the complete opposite of them. LIKES!

Quote from: mu on March 31, 2010, 03:31:27 AM(This is where braveness and/or insanity come in.)  Let yourself go, to the demons, to death, to nothing; let your mind destroy itself.  You will experience a level of bliss that is inconceivable in a "normal" state.  You will never again fear anything in a dream, for you will know what can come of it.  You'll want it.  I won't even attempt to describe what happens..  But it has nothing to do with fear or insanity thereafter--it is, if anything, the complete opposite of them.

Ain't that Nirvana?

Quote from: miss_maya on March 31, 2010, 08:17:22 AMLIKES! Thank you MM.

I just realized that abbreviation's sort of taken by something.  Is maya OK?

Quote from: Delphinus on April 01, 2010, 12:08:56 AMAin't that Nirvana? Hmm..  More like Alice in Chains, especially the scary part, chuckle.

Seriously, it would seem like a glimpse of it.  Try it..  If you can handle nightmares, try to the most terrifying possible.  I'm not talking about something that's kind of cool, or for kicks..  To say it's truly beautiful is a ridiculous understatement.

Quote from: miss_maya on March 31, 2010, 08:17:22 AM

Yep i've experience this in a lucid or 2 before, and non ld's.  Pretty annoying.