Hey everyone,

I was thinking earlier today about my first lucid dream, and then I was thinking about what it would have been like if it had been stable, my first lucid dream is at the start of my dream journal and is near the very top, there is a link just above my avatar.

Basically in my lucid dream I was wondering around some strange cartoon Simpson themed place and then out onto a field. It was very memoriable as it was my first ever lucid dream (despite being barely lucid). I was thinking about reliving it, or how about reliving it in a more vivid dream with more dream control and such.

Another example, a lucid dream I had when I was walking around my school (this was a very vivid lucid dream but also very memorable) and just playing around with the projecters with mind powers, and then using telekinesis to throw down doors. Later on in this dream I remember being with a few people and talking to them, they seemed like just talking to real life people.

Of course you could not visit the later with great control because I already had it in that dream. However I could relive it, or expand on it (what would happen next) or I could watch myself (watching the dream) do what I did like a tv show or something. How about visiting a non lucid dream while lucid or a nightmare and see how it goes this time round?

I think this would be great revisiting lucid dreams, such as first lucids or memorable lucids, I might add this to my lucid to do list and maybe some of you would like to revisit them. Heck we could even visit each others more memorable dreams, lucid or non lucid and experience them as well, Thoughts anyone?

Oh yeah - there are some lucid dreams that I would love to revisit/continue/complete.

I have three years' worth of dreams journaled now.  When I moved my old journal here from DV, it was an unexpected joy to go through all that and remember it all.  There are some real gems in there.

Another thought might be to lucidly revisit non-lucid dreams!

Quote from: pj on May 06, 2009, 11:13:29 AM Another thought might be to lucidly revisit non-lucid dreams!

yeah nonlucid dreams can sometimes be almost as amazing as lucids, though with the emphasis on the sometimes. Usually with me that's when I border on lucidity. Most of my nonlucids are not as vivid/exciting/memorable as lucids, though some I had, like an amazing one that was themed on the game "mirrors edge" was extreemly vivid and visually stunning

Ooo.  Mirrors Edge dream . . . must have been beautiful.

I feel free to go revisit scenes and themes from past lucid dreams.  There's really nothing stopping me.  Although they won't be the same, and things like vividness may be out of my control.  Lucidity kills really good non-lucids in my opinion, so there would be no sense in going back to any of those dreams.  I just wouldn't have the same priorities or be caught up in the plot the way I am in non-lucids.

I try to do this a lot--get back to places I've been, summon DC's I've met.  I'm rarely successful, unfortunately.

I wasn't sure what else to call this thread. I had a most unusual experience last night, but one which was very interesting.

Typically, I sleep on my side and have a reasonably quiet and restful sleep. Sleeping on my back invariably leads to snoring and waking myself up as a result.

Last night, I was very stuffed up from some residual elements of a cold. I wasn't breathing well and it was all mouth breathing. I became lucid and found myself in my house. I was headed upstairs when I realized there was this annoying sound. It was a scratchy, raspy sort of noise. Then is dawned on me that is was me ... and I was snoring IRL.

I realized that my rate of respiration in the dream was synced to the snoring I was hearing. I tried to make my breathing in the lucid a little more shallow, and the raspy scratchy snoring sound bleeding into my dreamspace slowed as well.

This all makes sense really. Much like the eyes, the diaphram is not paralyzed during REM. Apparently, we do in fact have some conscious level of control over our RL rate of breathing while lucid. I would make the conjecture that it needs to be a conscious attempt to control breathing rate. For example, I am willing to bet that in a non-lucid dream, or even a lucid dream where we are running, that our RL rate of breathing doesn't go up because we are not consciously trying to alter it.

Anyway, I'm not sure if there are useful applications here. But an interesting experience none the less.

It's good to hear somebody else bring this up.

On a couple occasions I've gotten lucid by realizing I was snoring.  I can't so much hear it as feel it - that rattle in the nasal passage.  And when I do become aware, I can stop or change it.  The awareness is the strangest thing - like realizing I should be making all kinds of impolite noises with my breathing but not hearing it.

It only seems to happen to me when I'm ill and/or sleeping flat on my back, which is a position I am not usually comfortable with.

Hearing yourself in your dream is really fascinating.  I wonder if you were just that close to being awake or if you were translating the vibrations in your skull or if your ears really were reporting the sounds?

I'm sure I was hearing myself snore. I wasn't that close to waking, as I had another few minutes in this lucid after playing around with this odd bio-feedback thing.

I often have sounds bleed into my dreams and thus alter the dream storyline. Often I will fall asleep on the couch, have a non-lucid dream while watching TV, wake and realize that the elements of the TV drove some of my dream imagery and experience. There's nothing odd about that. The reason dreams are generally so random, is that the brain has no change in any of the 5 senses. So our active brains need to fabricate a story based on zero sensory input. But limited sensory input can certainly influence a dream.

You bring up a great point, and stir recollection of something I very much enjoy when up north by myself.

All there is to listen to up there is NPR.  Friday nights, all night, they play wonderful classic jazz.  Saturday nights they play the blues.

I will often go to sleep with the radio on up there - something I never do at home or when others are around. . . and my dreams are filled with either jazz or blues - including my lucids.

Interesting! I rarely snore, so I've never experienced that. When I do snore, I wake up from the sound, but I'll be in NREM sleep.

I've read several places that we normally don't snore when in REM sleep because our breathing is more shallow when we are in REM sleep. But I bet that this doesn't apply to snoring due to a cold.

By the way, I had somewhat of a similar experience a couple of times lately when entering a WILD while wearing earplugs and lying on my left side. I could hear my heartbeat continuously from waking and into the lucid dream. I ran for a while while listening to my real heartbeat, and I could hear it speed up a little while I was running, though not as fast as when I'm running for real.

Yes. This is all very interesting. It reminds me of Laberges ground breaking experiment where the lucid dreamer was able to communicate a sequence of pre-determined L/R eye movements. This is not as precise because all you can do is make coarse corrections to your respiration. But it is quite similar none the less.

I've often either really said or felt like I was really saying things I yell in dreams, sometimes waking myself up.  I get a little worried before I yell sometimes, afraid that will happen.  Also, I think I am really swallowing when I eat things in dreams; I can feel it in my real body.

Things like having a body-part being uncomfortable can leak into a dream, either as an awareness of what's going on (I know my foot is trapped in the dream because it's trapped IRL), or as a dream element that I don't realize until awake (a DC is squeezing my hand because my real hand is getting squished.)

I do think respiratory rate goes up in REM sleep however; I've seen people having nightmares and breathing really hard.

I can never tell myself if I'm really feeling something from my body, or if I'm only dreaming it.  Many times I have imagined things.  Like thinking that I'm really having difficulty breathing because of my asthma, but waking to find that I'm not.  Or thinking that the loud music in my dreams is the radio, and waking to find that the radio is not on.

I'm not trying to challenge anything that anyone's said.  Only you can know what you experienced.

I just posted something about this on my blog: http://www.dreamkoan.com/. I've noticed that over 70% of my lucid dreams have included short two-dimensional animated movies, which I call "mental screensavers". They always occur just before I wake up. I don't know what their significance is, though I have some theories. If any of your lucid dreams have included mental screensavers, please let me know. I'm thinking of writing an article on the subject for the Lucid Dream Exchange http://dreaminglucid.com/.

You can read my lucid dreams here: http://mortalmist.com/forum/index.php/topic,2034.0.html

Is it like hypnogognic imagery?  I usually have it while first going to sleep.

Quote from: Moonbeam on May 26, 2009, 09:46:12 PMIs it like hypnogognic imagery?  I usually have it while first going to sleep.

That could be! Hadn't thought of that. I never seem to remember any of my hypnogogic imagery. What's it like?

These mental screensavers usually have a repeating pattern, either in time or space, or both. For example, an array of identical happy faces that blink on and off. They only last for a few seconds. Unlike normal dreams, they're always two-dimensional. They're often in black and white (or shades of gray), but can be in color. I don't think I've ever noticed any sound associated with them.

Quote from: johnb on May 27, 2009, 02:26:46 AMThese mental screensavers usually have a repeating pattern, either in time or space, or both. For example, an array of identical happy faces that blink on and off. They only last for a few seconds. Unlike normal dreams, they're always two-dimensional. They're often in black and white (or shades of gray), but can be in color. I don't think I've ever noticed any sound associated with them.

Yes, it's often like that; repeating 2-D patterns, or maybe just burst of colors like fireworks, or sometimes letters.  Morphing faces a lot of times.  I've been drawing mine lately, because they are often easy to draw.  Mine are usually bright colors, but may be shadowy.  No sound, usually, but sometimes I get a sound-effect for something simple (once I saw and heard jars clinking together,and once cereal being poured into a bowl, stuff like that.)  I can watch them for a few seconds, then they fade away.

Quote from: Moonbeam on May 27, 2009, 07:28:34 AMYes, it's often like that; repeating 2-D patterns, or maybe just burst of colors like fireworks, or sometimes letters.  Morphing faces a lot of times.  I've been drawing mine lately, because they are often easy to draw.  Mine are usually bright colors, but may be shadowy.  No sound, usually, but sometimes I get a sound-effect for something simple (once I saw and heard jars clinking together,and once cereal being poured into a bowl, stuff like that.)  I can watch them for a few seconds, then they fade away.

It does seem to be the same, or at least very similar! It could be that the state the brain gets into while transitioning into sleep can also occur while transitioning out of sleep.

The other thing it reminds me of is something that happens to me sometimes when I'm suddenly startled in the dark (while awake, not while sleeping). What happens is that I will often see an intricate two-dimensional geometrical pattern flash before my eyes. I think it must be that the adrenaline resulting from being startled stimulates the visual part of my brain. Has anyone ever had that experience? I haven't been able to find any references to it on the internet.

I've had that happen before once, but it wasn't like HI. It was more like a cartoon, but I was not a part of it. I even attempted to stay lucid through it, but I failed and woke up shortly afterwards.

It happened after I got a bit too excited about something, so I pretty much brought it upon myself. (I was on the phone with a certain DC whom I thought I would never hear from again.)

Quote from: Hazel on May 27, 2009, 05:17:19 PMI've had that happen before once, but it wasn't like HI. It was more like a cartoon, but I was not a part of it. I even attempted to stay lucid through it, but I failed and woke up shortly afterwards.

It happened after I got a bit too excited about something, so I pretty much brought it upon myself. (I was on the phone with a certain DC whom I thought I would never hear from again.)

That does sound similar to what I've been experiencing. It is often cartoonish. The peasant climbing the hill with the demon flying behind him was very cartoonish. It's always something I'm watching but am not part of, as you mentioned.

Do you remember what happened in your "cartoon"? About how long did it last? In what ways was it different from the HI experiences you've had?

Yeah, HI occurs while falling asleep and while waking up. There are actually two names:

For images while going to sleep, it's Hypnagogic Imagery. For images while waking up, it's Hypnopompic Imagery.

I think I've only ever truly experienced hypnagogic imagery once. It was a quick black and white flash of a scene. Maybe it had colour, but it was extremely dull. Other than that, the vividness of it was incredible.

Quote from: Sean999 on May 28, 2009, 10:13:36 AMYeah, HI occurs while falling asleep and while waking up. There are actually two names:

For images while going to sleep, it's Hypnagogic Imagery. For images while waking up, it's Hypnopompic Imagery.

I think I've only ever truly experienced hypnagogic imagery once. It was a quick black and white flash of a scene. Maybe it had colour, but it was extremely dull. Other than that, the vividness of it was incredible.

That's it! Hypnopompic imagery must be what I've been experiencing! I did a Google search on the term and found this article by George Gillespie:

http://www.asdreams.org/journal/articles/7-3_gillespie.htm

It's definitely consistent with my experiences.

Gillespie also describes how he converted a 3D dream scene into 2D hypnopompic imagery simply by closing his dream eyes during a lucid dream. I suppose if he had opened his dream eyes again he might have found himself in a new 3D dream scene instead of waking up:

"I dreamed (January 28, 1987) that I was in my grandmother&#39s kitchen. I felt a strong tug on my clothing, but saw no one near me. I realized I was dreaming and remembered my intention to examine darkness in a lucid dream. So I closed my (dreamed) eyes, and my visual field became dark. I floated up and began to toss about with great force. I finally discerned in the darkness a faint collection of patterns. There were eight to twelve irregularly-shaped contiguous regions, each containing its own pattern. Most of the regions had a striped or herringbone pattern, one simply had dots, and one had a chessboard pattern. The imagery was a faint irregular version of elements that appear in hypnopompic imagery. In spite of my tossing about, the imagery remained in a stable scannable location as if before my eyes.

When I woke up and became aware of my body in bed, the patterns continued without a break, but became dimmer. The patterns were in a fixed location within the visual surface, and I was able to scan them for what seemed like 20 seconds longer. My waking scanning of the patterns was subjectively no different from my scanning them while dreaming and was similar to my usual scanning of hypnopompic imagery. The patterns had become, in effect, hypnopompic imagery. I have experienced three times the scanning of stable patterns, lines, and spots in lucid dreams, and this is the one time in which the imagery continued after I awakened."

Another really interesting thing about the paper is that Gillespie claims the images extend well beyond the perceived field of view of the dream eyes: By "scanning" up/down, left/right, etc., you can see different parts of the extended image. I'll have to remember to try that next time I experience one of these.

QuoteThis all makes sense really. Much like the eyes, the diaphram is not paralyzed during REM. Apparently, we do in fact have some conscious level of control over our RL rate of breathing while lucid. I would make the conjecture that it needs to be a conscious attempt to control breathing rate. For example, I am willing to bet that in a non-lucid dream, or even a lucid dream where we are running, that our RL rate of breathing doesn't go up because we are not consciously trying to alter it.Hey, that would explain why breathing underwater is a common reality check =D