while in my primary dream myself went to sleep and began a dream, which was the 2nd layer in which I, he, become lucid and realize "that I am having a dream of having a dream." At this stage, things which happen externally physically can be percieved by my 2nd layer lucid self, yet, before being able to awake, I had to convince my 2nd layer dreaming self to stop doing so and wake up so that I could reach my primary dream which then brought me back to my primary dream upon which I maintained lucidity and was then able to wake up my body.

The difficulty involved was that it took some time to do this. Also, for a while my 2nd degree character became tired and curious about what would happen if he could "go to sleep" because he, I, knew we were dreaming, and the thought was "what if" - to try to dream and attempt to become lucid which would have been myself having a dream and my dream character then dreaming that he is asleep and having a dream, at which point things became highly confusing.

Anyone experienced this or something like it?

I more or less experienced something like it, it was one of two lucid dreams i can remember out of the time that i never even heard of lucid dreaming.

I woke up in my room, but i noticed something strange, it was already 1700, no way i slept that long, when i realised that i woke up again in my room. The time was right this time, but there was a weird painting on the wall, that's not supposed to be there, i woke up again. etc etc

This continued for about ten times, every time i wake up, find something that's out of place, realise i'm dreaming and wake up again, just to discover that again, something is out of place and wake up again.

This was a very weird experience, so i never forgot it, it was years before i ever heard about lucid dreaming.

I've experienced this several times when I was a kid. I don't remember any specific dreams now, though. But it's kind of a weird thing!

Okay last night I experienced something I have never done before. I had been out with some friends, as it was his birthday, got home about 9 to get changed to go back out, but fancied a quick nap, anyway I woke again at 1 and decided to get back into bed as too late to go back out.

Unintentionally I managed to WILD into a lucid dream and what followed was something I have never before experienced.

I must have had either 20+ lucid dreams, or one HUGE one which went on for longer than I have ever experienced. It seemed after the initial WILD which was not intentional, I started feeling the sensations I do when I usually do my technique, so went with them, and before long was lucid, all in about 20 or so seconds.

So being lucid it was weird, the first couple of lucid dreams, seemed like I didn't have great control, like my eyes were closed but I could see, and you know the feeling you get when you are having a really vivid lucid dream, when everything is so clear well I didn't have this to begin with. Every lucid ended with me then getting these sensations again, and almost like another mini WILD into the next lucid dream. After about 5 or 6 of these, I decided they were not vivid enough and then opened my eyes, but was worried that I would open my real eyes. I was so aware of my actual sleeping body, that I opened them carefully and fortunately was looking into the dream. And this is when it because more real than anything.

At one point I was so sure I was awake, I failed several RCs but eventually forced my finger through my hand and chuckled at my mind trying to trick me. I did so much last night, met so many DCs and in all had over 20 mini lucid dreams, or one huge one. The problem was when every dream faded, rather than waking up, as it want black I forced on the sensations I usually get when I WILD and ended up in another dream, but wasn't sure if this was just a really good way of continually re-entering a lucid, of if I was waking up and WILDing over and over again.

I also got to the point where I was in a dream and worried that I had been lucid for so long, and re-entering etc that I might be too tired when I wake up because I had been aware for so long!!

Anyway, just wanted to share that, and I will be trying this again for sure, because it seems to me, if I was not waking up, this is an excellent way for me to prolong lucidity, when the dream starts fading.

Adam

Wow, that's a lot of lucids!

Yeah, that does sound like a good way to prolong lucidity, but it seems like you'd have to have VERY high awareness to do it that many times.

That's pretty cool.  It sounds like something that might happen when you are over-tired; do you think it was something about the circumstances like that?  I bet a non-lucid dreamer would just think that they has a very restless nights' sleep, but you were able to take advantage of it.

I've had that feeling too, that I've spent too much time "awake" while I was asleep, and I won't be rested when I get up.  Usually it's OK, unless it wakes me up early and I can't get back to sleep.

If I had to guess I'd say you were prolonging and re-entering the lucid dream (rather than creating a whole new WILD). I had something like that happen one night. But I only got 4 or 5 continuations. Albeit my total lucid time was pretty long. But 20+ times! Wow. Good job.

Wow holy crap, congrats!!

I wonder if being aware of your physical body means that you are sleeping very very lightly. Ah in fact, I'm quite convinced that that's the case. I guess you must have been a very light sleeper that night! Are you usually so?

Yeah GH I think you're right - but it was like I was doing a WILD in my sleep to get lucid again if you see what I mean?

I am a very light sleeper, always have been

Quote from: Adam on April 19, 2008, 07:06:37 AMI did so much last night, met so many DCs and in all had over 20 mini lucid dreams, or one huge one. Adam Congratulations on so many lucids Adam.

I would count those as 20 separate lucids because it sounds like they each started and then ended independently of each other.

I've been able to obtain a similar state a few times in which the rem cycles are so close together that the dreams start coming about every 5 to 10 minutes, and once when they were coming every 2 minutes or so and in which I had 22 dreams in a 90 minutes period.

Mine were not lucid though except for the last 3 in which I was finally able to become a part of the dream.

Oooooh Adam...I could talk to you about this for hours.

I call these marathon lucids. Because they just keep coming, and you just keep re-entering the lucid state over and over again. I used to spend hours having marathon lucid naps. I have tons of posts on DV about them.

I'm always aware of my physical body during these types of lucids, as I'm sleeping very lightly. Sometimes I can even open my eyes during my LD, look around my bedroom for a second, and close them again and continue on in my lucid dream.

Some (idiotic) people don't believe that this is possible. They think that you can only dream or LD during REM sleep and you have to be in deep sleep or whatever, but it's sooo not true. Some of my best most vivid and memorable lucids came when I was barely asleep and almost on the border between sleep and awake.

Congrats on your first lucid marathon!! If you want to talk more about these, I'm definitely the person to talk to. =)

Thanks Nina, certainly would love to talk more about it! I was borderline being awake. It was a weird feeling, of knowing I am sleeping, being aware of my sleeping body, but just continually re-entering lucid dreams.

Is certainly something I am going to try again. I had about 6 pints that night too, so don't know if the alcohol had anything to do with it, but I think the initial 4 hours sleep wore most of that off, then when I went back to sleep at about 2am (after being awake for an hour) I felt like I couldn't sleep, but was dreaming, and knew where I was.

All very strange, but a very cool experience none the less

Quote from: Adam on April 20, 2008, 10:10:46 AMYeah GH I think you're right - but it was like I was doing a WILD in my sleep to get lucid again if you see what I mean? I know exactly what you mean. I'm pretty sure we're talking about the same thing. I've never done it nearly that many times in a row though, so I may be describing it a bit differently. But what you and Aquanina are saying is sounding just like what I'm thinking of.

Basically you go from SP, to HI, to lucid...then back to the trance like vibrational state of SP, then back through HI, then lucid...and it keeps repeating. Sometimes I get stuck for what feels like minutes in the vibrational stage in between lucids, sometimes I skip over it and go straight to HI, and sometimes I even skip the HI.

Quote from: Aquanina on April 20, 2008, 03:48:59 PMBasically you go from SP, to HI, to lucid...then back to the trance like vibrational state of SP, then back through HI, then lucid...and it keeps repeating. Sometimes I get stuck for what feels like minutes in the vibrational stage in between lucids, sometimes I skip over it and go straight to HI, and sometimes I even skip the HI.

Oh, in my cases, I went from lucid... to dream's end... to black void where I was conscious and right on the edge of waking. I knew I was in bed and could feel my physical and could either choose to move and risk becoming fully awakened or enter another LD (usually completely different but sometimes including some element from an earlier dream in the sequence). From there I'd end up lucid right at the beginning of the next dream, having never lost consciousness at all between dreams and mini-dreams. Then the process continues.

I see now that it is a form of WILD, which I'd never really thought about before.  And I really don't think mine were false awakenings (even if they were they could still be WILDs within a dream).

However, in my cases I didn't feel any vibrational effects of SP. Nor did I get the HI. I'm interested in hearing Adam's "stages" for comparison.

It was pretty much spot on from what Nina was describing.

The sensations I go for when I WILD are really strong vibrational sensations. They get quite forceful too. Usually a feeling of falling or spinning, and then when I get hear I realise I am dreaming and snap into a lucid.

It was strange though because for the first time I experienced a lot of HS too - really scary sounds of like dogs growling loudly, or strong wind. Very powerful, but I knew it was because of the HI/HS and transformation into a lucid dream.

I am going to try this again soon - I will do the same. Go to bed for a few hours, wake and then get to this light sleeping stage and see if I can prolong many lucid dreams again.

Nina would love to hear more of your experiences, and yours too GH

Quote from: Adam on April 20, 2008, 04:17:01 PMIt was pretty much spot on from what Nina was describing.

The sensations I go for when I WILD are really strong vibrational sensations. They get quite forceful too. Usually a feeling of falling or spinning, and then when I get hear I realise I am dreaming and snap into a lucid. Interesting. Maybe we aren't talking about the same thing after all. I'm not sure now.

I do think we are all talking about the same thing GH.

Basically what happens in between lucids is a trancelike state...it can involve SP, it can involve HI, it can be a black void, it can involve multiple FAs...etc. It's the same sort of state that hypnotherapists put you in. I once asked if someone could hypnotize me during that trancelike state in between lucids, and the answer I received was...yes.

When me and Edge used to share a bed, we tried a few experiments but none seemed to work. For instance, I attempted to communicate with him that I was in that trancelike state by attempting to speak...but the only thing I can do while in SP (I think) is faintly mumble incoherently. And I don't even know if I'm really mumbling or if it's just in my head, because Edge never noticed anything. I wanted to see if he could hypnotize me while I was in that state. But we found it impossible to communicate with one another while one of us was in SP. We only tried a few times though...I'm sure that if you have a partner or SO or whatever who is willing to try, you guys could have some fun with it.

Anyways...Adam...because you are conscious and going from lucid to lucid and experiencing all the HI and SP in between...you will see and hear SOME BIZARRE SHIT. Ok!? So, be prepared. The scariest, wildest, weirdest, hallucinations both auditory and visual I've ever had, were during that trancelike state between lucids...where the vibrations of SP and the HI seem to overlap.

One time when I was in that trance state, waiting for my lucid to start...I had an FA and saw a 4 foot tall scary ass jack rabbit wearing prison stripes standing over my bed and just leering at me. It was so freaking scary. And this was at like noon, so it wasn't at night, and I could see everything clear as day. I've also hallucinated that my sister opened my bedroom door, climbed into bed with me (I actually felt the pressure of her climbing on the mattress) and whispering "schwester" (sister in german) in my ear. It seemed sooo real. Then I realized that my sister doesn't live at home anymore...and I was so freaked out I woke myself up.

Oh, and don't get me started on the time my bed was jumping up and down like one of those hydraulic cars. I mean, hello poltergeist. And the song was playing on the radio (my radio wasn't even on) "heaven aint close in a place like this, no heaven aint close in a place like this"...

So be prepared. Weird shit WILL HAPPEN in that state. LOL. But it's also the best stuff for stories and fun to talk about later.

WOW I could talk about this all day!

The weirdest I got that night was just the sensation of falling really fast, I had to induce this to get to the next lucid it seemed - but every other time would seem like there was some scary shit going on! Like the sounds of the dog barking in my ear. It was like there was one on my bed or something, really was crazy. But because I was so aware of where I was it was something that didn't frighten me too much, was just weird to let go and go with it.

I can't wait to try this again. In fact I think I might try it again tonight. Although it appears these nights are spontaneous rather than induced, because I had to wait till I was in this trance like state you mention before I could string them all together.

Congrats!  That's amazing, and pretty crazy.

Nina, I'd love to know more about these!  They seem amazing.  Is there a particular way to induce them, or are they just random occurrences?

This topic is a branch-off from an observation of Gilad Benari's photograph, Out of My Mind.  (You can see it in here, thanks to Nina's new inspirational series.)

Take a look at the image.  It immediately strikes me with that "hyper-realism" that is so common for me in dreams.  What makes it so is that the depth of field is infinite.  Everything is in razor focus, from right in front of your eye to miles away.

I think this is exactly what happens in dreams when we encounter that ultra-clarity or hyper-realism.  Perhaps, having recognized it, we might find it useful as a dream sign to be on the lookout for.

That is a great observation. I don't know why I didn't notice that. I really should have. I'm always screwing around with depth of field on my camera in and out of dream. Hyper Realism = Infinite DoF.

Maybe since you pointed that out I can use it too, to trigger lucidity or use the knowledge to sharpen my dreams when they're blurry. It's got to come in handy somewhere.

That's a good point.  Those pictures really do have that same dream quality of hyper-realism.  I think it also relates to Cusp's idea of what you focus on in dreams becoming more detailed.  You can make it hyper-real by trying to take it all in at once, instead of narrowing your field of view.

I'm so happy that you were able to get something worthwhile from those photographs pj. I definitely agree about the depth of field. And even the detail...like in the trees. In that "solitude" one...that tree is definitely what I would describe as "hyper-real" only...without the proper colors. The details are stunning. I have no idea how he does that amazing infra-red photography. Anyways...awesome thread, and I'm thrilled that you liked my first Featured Artist. I hope they will all be as inspirational!!

Most of mine were induced thus:

Waking at 9am, taking a Metabolife pill with ephedra (stimulant)...going to class. Returning from class at 11am. Taking a nap until 2pm when my next class starts.

Basically I just lay down to take a nap as usual...I don't mean to WILD, so I call them unintentional WILDs, because I guess I am sleeping so lightly because of the stimulant, that as soon as I enter SP or HI...I snap back to consciousness...and from there...I can spend hours going from lucid to lucid. Thus, calling them marathon lucid naps.

However, once I learned techniques to prevent my dreams from fading, so I wouldn't have to wait through SP and HI again to re-lucid, then I would just do my LD extending techniques and it would just be one long lucid. I use the staring at your hands and examining them in detail while using verbal commands method for extending my lucids. It works for me everytime. =)

One thing though...when I actually DID wake up from a marathon lucid nap...I was always completely and totally zapped of energy. I would have to roll out of bed. I don't know why, or what is so exhausting about the experience. I'm interested to hear theories about that.

I think there's certainly something about the colours which is reminiscient to dreaming.

That pale blue in combination with the feeling given of a gentle breeze, for me at least is highly associable with dreams.

Also that sharpness of image, yet somehow as realistic it is it become unrealistic and trancelike. It's really quite something.

Quote from: EsotericAce on April 19, 2008, 02:37:42 AMwhile in my primary dream myself went to sleep and began a dream, which was the 2nd layer in which I, he, become lucid and realize "that I am having a dream of having a dream." At this stage, things which happen externally physically can be percieved by my 2nd layer lucid self, yet, before being able to awake, I had to convince my 2nd layer dreaming self to stop doing so and wake up so that I could reach my primary dream which then brought me back to my primary dream upon which I maintained lucidity and was then able to wake up my body.

The difficulty involved was that it took some time to do this. Also, for a while my 2nd degree character became tired and curious about what would happen if he could "go to sleep" because he, I, knew we were dreaming, and the thought was "what if" - to try to dream and attempt to become lucid which would have been myself having a dream and my dream character then dreaming that he is asleep and having a dream, at which point things became highly confusing.

Anyone experienced this or something like it?

I've run into similar kinds of things. Confusion and a weird sense of entrapment is something I associate with most of my dreams; I have never  had anything quite as coherent as what you describe here.. but similar feelings and experiences. Like being lucid but then coming to the conclusion that the dream is real and my waking life is the dream.

Nevertheless some people don't like this, but I personally love it. It's similar I guess to certain states of Sleep Paralysis. Lots of people really fear it, but I can't get enough.

Anyway I hope you enjoyed it, it sounds like fun..

I can't understand that Nina.. the concept of WILDing without effort..

Doesn't that mean when you sleep after these preparations, no matter what you do a LD will occur? If you WILD unintentionally I guess it has to be. But thats weird I've never seen anything like that before.

I had a lucid dream inside of another dream, then woke back up to the first dream, and then I wasn't lucid anymore, I was just back inside the first dream again.  In the first dream, I had dreamed of going to bed and going to sleep, so when I woke up from the lucid, I thought I was really awake.  Then when I really woke up, I realized what had  happened.

Wow, those photographs are incredible! I love what he's done with infinite focus there! Out of My Mind in particular I love... I can only hope to one day approach that level of skill.

Ah, but getting back to the topic at hand... Great topic, pj! This reminds me of my last somewhat lengthy lucid dream, actually. Everything was super-sharp, super-clear, and super-vivid, just like that photograph, only with much brighter colors. A great observation, and something I will definitely keep in mind as a dreamsign.

gasp Ohhhh my goodness, those pictures are to die for. Nina, are there any in that style available in desktop size?

I have also noticed this before, that my DoE is strange in my dreams. On the other hand, if DoE in dreams is infinite, wouldn't that make our distance judging ability poor/none at all? I think that in some of my lucids when my DoE is infinite, I have still been able to judge distance just as I would in real life!

What about everyone else? Can you judge distance even if your DoE is infinite?

If so, could this lead to the conclusion that our mind not only remembers smell, sight, touch, taste, sound,feelings etc. but also other minute calculations such as depth of objects from other objects etc.?

I also have done this a few times.  It really makes you wonder just what reality is and where in the multiverse your reality is currently positioned.

This could be an interesting experiment in the deep dreaming forum.  Maybe go to 'sleep' in a lucid dream and have another, maybe three nested levels of conciousness?

Don't those calculations of depth fall under the heading of sight and touch though? A sense of space, which somes from senses to begin with.

Quote from: Seeker on April 23, 2008, 06:07:18 AMI also have done this a few times.  It really makes you wonder just what reality is and where in the multiverse your reality is currently positioned.

This could be an interesting experiment in the deep dreaming forum.  Maybe go to 'sleep' in a lucid dream and have another, maybe three nested levels of conciousness?

Lucid challenge??

Quote from: Mes Tarrant on April 22, 2008, 10:58:27 PMgasp Ohhhh my goodness, those pictures are to die for. Nina, are there any in that style available in desktop size?

Just so you guys know, in case you haven't seen it...there is a discussion thread for the Featured Artist of the Week, where this sort of discussion would better fit...so we don't high-jack the point of this thread being the hyper-reality of some lucids and such. =) That discussion thread is here: http://www.mortalmist.com/forum/index.php/topic,352.0.html

Also...those are only a few of the images I personally enjoyed...he has a huge gallery and I STRONGLY urge you all to check it out on Deviant Art. I posted a link at the beginning of that thread before the images. =)

Quote from: Carôusoul on April 22, 2008, 08:34:21 PMI can't understand that Nina.. the concept of WILDing without effort..

Doesn't that mean when you sleep after these preparations, no matter what you do a LD will occur? If you WILD unintentionally I guess it has to be. But thats weird I've never seen anything like that before.

Yep. Pretty much. I think it has to do with the fact that I'm on a stimulant, and yet forcing myself to try to sleep. So my body does actually fall asleep, but my mind is so alert that the moment the vibrations of SP start in, or the HI comes, I snap back to a conscious state and just stay conscious until the dream, rather than just drifting off to sleep. I don't know if it's only ephedra...or if it works with caffeine or other stimulants as well. I know that it doesn't work with adderall (amphetamine)...as I think adderall is too strong and you couldn't sleep on it if you wanted to.

It just HAPPENS. I don't know how.

I would agree, when it happened to me I didn't really know how - the sensations just came without me trying to induce them

I would agree, when it happened to me I didn't really know how - the sensations just came without me trying to induce them

Yea this could be a special challenge if anyone wants to do it.

EsotericAce, I realized later what was weird about your dream.  You stayed lucid, yet still had to go thru the outside dream.  I don't get why that should have to be so, if you were lucid.  In mine, I lost lucidity, so of course I woke back up in the outside dream.

Took me a little bit to get that.  Kind of dense sometimes.