I find dreaming quite difficult.  It is so hard for me to capture even normal dreams that I sometimes feel lucidity is quite beyond my grasp.  When I first read about lucid dreaming and joined the other forum, dreams came frequently and easily.  I also had several near lucid and a few lucid experiences.  Once the euphoric excitement of doing something new wore off and I settled into a normal routine, the lucidity disappeared and the dreams became difficult once more.  This is a source of irritation and discouragement for me.

I continue to interact with and be a part of the community through my involvement with the programming side of things, but I would like even more to interact with the community because of my dreams.  Anybody have any suggestions on how I can change or improve my situation?

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hi raklet.

i sometimes have the same feeling as you... i started dreaming (and journaling) january 08... and never LD'd before this time.  also, my rate of lucidity has decreased over the course of the year -- i thank the dreamcatcher for helping me notice this!

and god knows i am sometimes believing that the enthusiasm of the first months created more awareness within the dream state.  even if it were true (and on some level, it definitely is....) what is there to do about it?  of course, we all don't have the time and ability to dedicate ourselves so strongly to the "quest" with how many responsibilities come along with life...  i wonder if a "natural" LDer ever feels this way?  ...and of course, we all aren't so lucky to be a natural at this art of dreaming.

just my 2 cents...  i feel powerless sometimes to conjole myself into "being more excited" about a possible future LD... hell, i am pretty interested in it every night i fall asleep... "how could i make myself more excited??" is what i sometimes ask myself...  but the biggest difference i have ever felt in my ability to LD is directly in relation to how much i sleep each night prior to trying.  if i get less than 5 1/2 hours before a WBTB, i am totally screwed -- even my recall is crap then... no matter how much enthusiasm or RCs i seem to do...  i am just a delirious dreamer with that little sleep...  and this only seems to happen when i split myself up too much during daily life...  it is a good way to know i need to slow down and take some "me" time.

good luck on your dream-journeys...  you know we appreciate everything you have done, and continue to do here at our home.

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I feel much the same way. I involve myself in a few MM things, but I never have many dreams to show. I'm not interacting on the most basic level, or the purpose of this place.

I'm not sure what you're exact issue is. But we'll talk

Quote from: Raklet on January 03, 2009, 12:48:57 AMAnybody have any suggestions on how I can change or improve my situation? You might try image streaming Raklet.  I've been having good success with this lately, and am getting where I can enter WILDs from this state by getting into the scene and controlling something in it.  And the nice thing is that the control I am learning during the image streams is starting to carry over into my normal dreams, as I am now starting to control things in my normal dreams by using my mind.

http://mortalmist.com/forum/index.php/topic,1216.0.html

The trick is to getting the image streams started, and I have several scenes such as those listed below that I imagine myself in, in addition to imagining myself back in previous dreams, that seem to help to get the image streams started:

Imagine yourself skiing down a hill and skiing off a cliff at the end of the hill, and then landing on another hill and skiing off a cliff at the end of that hill, etc, until you finally ski off the last hill and are flying over a beautiful canyon below.

Imagine yourself water skiing, doing all kinds of stunts out on the water, then going over ramps tilted to the left and right that cause your body to spin sideways when you go over them.

Imagine yourself climbing up a very tall ladder, and just keep climbing higher and higher until when you finally look down it makes you dizzy from now high up you are.  Then dive off the ladder and float down to a pool below.

Imagine you are a trapeze artist going from one bar to the next turning triple back flips and front flips between the bars.

As you practice imagining yourself back in previous dreams or scenes like the above, you will find your subconscious will often take over and start providing its own scenes.  When it does, then just jump in and start changing something in the scene like levitating something, and you will find you are then lucid.

Good luck, and thanks for all work you have done on this site.

Hey, Raklet!  I'm responding before reading the rest of the thread.

Recalling dreams and getting lucid both are frustrating and difficult for me.  It seemed so easy at first.  My recall was as good as it had ever been in my life and getting lucid three or four times a week was no big deal.

I'm not sure what changed that, but it did change.  Ongoing, dedicated effort to recall and to lucidity have yielded little fruit for me.  It seems that my recall comes and goes, and I have found no rhyme or reason for it.  Lucidity remains elusive; I'm lucky to get lucid three or four times per month.  I cannot point to stress, amount of sleep, nutrition, anxiety or dedication as having any cause/effect relationship to this.

Frustration and difficulty with dreaming, however, has not proved discouraging for me.  I'm surprised it hasn't, but I can look back and know from recorded experience that the capability exists in me.

That is the suggestion I make to you.  Look back and know the capability is there.  Recognize that we are not just practicing a discipline that few choose to pursue, but one that has no established path to mastery.  We are treading uncharted territory toward a destination we know exists but to which there are no established roads.

Remember that there is no urgency.  Remember that your presence here is treasured no matter what your dreaming capacity may be today.

And remember that this is supposed to be fun.  I know - that's tough to do when frustrated and discouraged.

I'm working on a song right now that may never get written, played or recorded.  It is called "Child's Eyes".  The idea comes from two memories of mine; lucid dreaming before I ever knew what it was, and my unmitigated joy in music.

As I struggle to master jazz guitar, I recognize how discipline and work have replaced the joy in playful creation.  As I struggle to recall and record dreams and gain lucidity, I recognize how discipline and work have replaced the awe and magic of just letting it happen.

We all were children once.  Wouldn't it be something if we could go back from time to time and see it all through a child's eyes, so we don't forget?  I think this world would be a very different place if all of us could learn to do that from time to time.

Bummer to hear that you're frustrated with progress. You did leave out a major detail ... what have you tried and with what level of success?

I'll tell you a brief story. I had a few off the cuff lucids around 1997. I knew what they were and wanted more. I read EWOLD, kept a detailed dream journal and characterized my dreamsigns. I put tons of work into it and no major success. Maybe 2-3 more lucids.

In 2006 I restarted the effort. Among other things I bought a DreamMaker mask. By now, there were many great lucid dream sites and a lot more info on what worked for certain people, etc ...  The DreaMaker was a good tgool at first (though I would now suggest the REM dreamer as a better device). It taught me what a FA was and got me familiar with my lucid dream space. I ultimately outgrew my need for it.

Over time I learned that WBTB was my best approach. I didn't need a daily DJ. I don't need to do reality checks all day, etc ... I learned how to use supps which greatly improved my odds.

Now I get lucid pretty much when I want. The point is, if you keep looking, you may hit on something very efffective for you. Take your time, assess each method fairly, and hone in on what does or doesn't work. Everyone is a little different in this regard.

Good luck.

Quote from: DrTechnical on January 04, 2009, 03:53:31 PMBummer to hear that you're frustrated with progress. You did leave out a major detail ... what have you tried and with what level of success?

I'll tell you a brief story. I had a few off the cuff lucids around 1997. I knew what they were and wanted more. I read EWOLD, kept a detailed dream journal and characterized my dreamsigns. I put tons of work into it and no major success. Maybe 2-3 more lucids.

In 2006 I restarted the effort. Among other things I bought a DreamMaker mask. By now, there were many great lucid dream sites and a lot more info on what worked for certain people, etc ...  The DreaMaker was a good tgool at first (though I would now suggest the REM dreamer as a better device). It taught me what a FA was and got me familiar with my lucid dream space. I ultimately outgrew my need for it.

Over time I learned that WBTB was my best approach. I didn't need a daily DJ. I don't need to do reality checks all day, etc ... I learned how to use supps which greatly improved my odds.

Now I get lucid pretty much when I want. The point is, if you keep looking, you may hit on something very efffective for you. Take your time, assess each method fairly, and hone in on what does or doesn't work. Everyone is a little different in this regard.

Good luck.

Well, lets see.....MILD, WILD, DILD, EWOLD, dreamsigns, dream journal, workshops, little to no WBTB, and little to no supplements.  No masks.  I take inspiration from your account.  Thank you.  I'm going to keep at it and will eventually come into my own system that works for me.

My opinion ... you need to muck with Neurotransmitter levels a little.

If you're not into to supps, that's cool. But at least leverage WBTB. That provides a huge advantage. I would suggest you start there.

The lucidity Institute published a paper on WBTB a while back. It increases the likelihood of dream lucidity significantly (like 10 fold).

I have nothing against supplements.  I just don't want to go buy the whole car without test driving it first.  I wish they would sell trial packs for a little cash rather than having to buy the whole bottle for $$$.  If I want to WBTB, I need to be more disciplined and go to bed earlier.  During my busy time of year, I'm up by 5:30 am, seven days a week.  But, I like the idea.  I'm going to start working on those things.  Thanks!

so a sleep schedule that hinders dreaming seems to be our mutual problem, Rak.

Quote from: AspirationRealized on January 15, 2009, 01:59:17 PMso a sleep schedule that hinders dreaming seems to be our mutual problem, Rak.

No doubt.

Quote from: Raklet on January 15, 2009, 10:57:44 AMIf I want to WBTB, I need to be more disciplined and go to bed earlier.  During my busy time of year, I'm up by 5:30 am, seven days a week.  But, I like the idea.  I'm going to start working on those things.  Thanks! WBTB is definitely the way to go!  I have been having 85 to 90 percent of my lucids this way lately.  I just get up, get a bite to eat, and record my dreams.  You don't have to go with high powered supplements to get lucid, because taking something like a B-50 with a couple of cookies or some soymilk with a banana mixed in with it can be very helpful in helping to stay awake until images start appearing that you can become lucid in.

As you already know, I help the images along though, as I have all kinds of scenes that I picture myself in, from climbing ladders way up into the sky, to taking escalators up the the top of huge roller coasters which I then ride way up and way down, to skiing off of cliffs, to ice skating and turning all kinds of spins in the air.

Almost every night some new scene pops up that works better than the other ones I had been using.  It helps to have a lot of different scenes to to imagine as the conscious mind seems to get used to scenes like this and then keeps them from working, but by imagining a lot of different scenes, and switching back and forth between them, you can trick your conscious mind into letting its guard down for a moment, which then lets the subconscious get some of its scenes in, which is when you can get lucid.

Thanks for the tips iadr.  Good thing I'm young still - gives me plenty of time to practice!