Part one of an interview conducted by JohnB at DreamKoan. October 2010 timeframe. Reproduced here with his permission:

In my recent interview with pj of Mortal Mist (MM), one of the topics that came up was the fascinating lucid-dream-related research of MM member, DrTechnical. After reading many of his posts on MM, I've become convinced that his work would be of great interest to readers of this blog. Fortunately, he has agreed to be interviewed.

Dream Koan: By way of introduction, could you say a little about your background and how you got interested in lucid dreaming?

DrTechnical: Most certainly, and thanks for having me. I've always been fascinated by dreams. There were a number of nighttime experiences I had as a young child which were at times interesting and at other times quite scary. For example, I remember that every once in a while I would get this weird head and neck vibration thing going on. It was often in the middle of the night. I didn't understand it at the time of course. But I now recognize it as the vibrational state leading to a wake initiated lucid dream (WILD). The experience was complicated by the fact that my WILDs typically have me transition to my dreamspace such that it's a replica of my waking reality space (WRS). Almost like a false awakening (FA). So in short, I never picked up on the fact that I was dreaming, and simply put my head down for some more sleep. On the scary side, I remember waking once and having the clown on the wall start talking to me. I freaked and called my parents in. I now recognize this as nothing more than a FA with a sufficiently quick dreamspace to WRS transition that I simply got confused. I wish I had some of my present day knowledge and perspective on dreams way back then. There was so much I missed out on.

As a young adult, I took an interest in dream interpretation. I always had good recall and this was the typical area that people focused on at the time. I read a number of books including the classic one by Sigmund Freud. At around this time, I had a few off the cuff lucid dreams. I was sufficiently educated on the subject of dreaming to know what they were. Of course I was fascinated. In an effort to reproduce the phenomenon more often, I honed in on Laberge's work and read "EWOLD" [Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming]. I tried the common approaches of dream sign categorization, constant reality checks and the like. It earned me a few lucids but progress was slow. I eventually lost interest.

About 4 years ago, I had taken an interest in brainwave entrainment via binaural beats. The hynagogic imagery associated with a good theta wave session reminded me of lucid dreaming. I did a little internet searching on "lucid dreaming" and found plenty of great info on the subject. Dreamviews was in full force. Great strides were made in lucid dream supplement (LDS) theory. There were several commercially available dream masks. It seemed like I had what I needed to dig back in. Now my background is very technical. I'm an electrical engineer by education and profession, so of course I like my electronic toys. So mental techniques supported by some experiments with dream masks led to my initial successes. Because the brain is nothing more than a several pound electro chemical device, I viewed the LDS approach as a logical and interesting next step. I had wonderful success with a number of common supps, and I was off and running.

DK: Wow! I already have so many questions I hardly know where to begin. You mentioned feeling vibrations at the beginning of some of your WILDs. It reminds me of a strong vibration I once felt during a lucid dream. Do you have any theories regarding what could cause such sensations? Also, could you explain how brainwave entrainment via binaural beats works? You said that it can induce hypnagogic imagery. If used while asleep, can it also induce lucid dreaming? What mental techniques were you using with the dream mask? Some form of meditation? What supplements did you initially have the most success with?

DrT: Lots of questions here. Let me take a stab at changing up the order a bit so the chronology makes sense and we'll take it from there.

As I mentioned earlier, the mental methods that are central to EWOLD had yielded modest results. When I reimmersed myself into lucid dreaming I immediately bought a dream mask. Now these devices have their pros and cons. They really are a bit cumbersome and difficult to sleep with. Sleeping on one's side is even more difficult. But they do work to a reasonable degree. I had learned enough about REM (rapid eye movement) phases to convince myself that applying a dream mask at wake back to bed (WBTB) made the most sense. This yielded two important self discoveries. One, when the lights on the mask went off, it typically forced a FA. My propensity to have these was a good find. I got much better at using the reality test button and learned to negotiate the FA process in general. I also came to realize that after a dream mask and FA based lucid, I would take off the mask, resume sleep and often have another lucid dream immediately thereafter. A little reading on the subject of WBTB and neurotransmitter balance convinced me that my overall logical processes were being positively impacted by the sleep disruption. In other words, WBTB was allowing my acetylcholine (AcH) levels to rise and positively impacting the likelihood of lucidity. I further realized that plain old WBTB after about 5 hours of sleep was a great option for me. All I would do is review my goal to note impossible things in general, and made a mental note to do reality checks upon waking to catch the FA's. I also continued my meditation practice along with the help of binaural beats. There is a great deal that can be discussed here, and I recently wrote a tutorial on the subject over at MM. [Note from editor: You must be an MM member to read the tutorial, but it's free to sign up.] In short though, I sort of rediscovered what was already pretty well known (see Tibetan Dream Yoga, Hemi-Sync and Robert Monroe, etc ...). Meditation is a great lucid aid and binaural beats have some interesting effects on the brain. Now appreciate that meditation has a positive but indirect effect on lucid dreaming. Basically, it tends to enhance focus. One of the fundamental reasons that we aren't lucid all the time, is that our logical processes are attenuated and there is a collective defocusing of our mental faculties in the dream state. Now binaural beats at theta and alpha frequencies have two uses as I see it. By entraining the brain to these brainstates, we can practice focus and awareness in an electro-chemical state quite similar to that of the dream state. Furthermore, we can learn to better negotiate hynagogic imagery (HI). This can potentially help with WILDs, for people inclined to have WILDs via HI techniques. In summary though, I have been unable to leverage binaural beats to directly induce lucidity. More powerful entrainment techniques such as cranial electro-stimulation (CES) have relative advantages there. I'm sure we'll get to that later.

As far as LDS theory is concerned, my success with WBTB had already demonstrated that AcH plays a huge role in my ability to get lucid. I immersed myself in Yuschak's outstanding book on the subject and focused my personal trials on the galantamine/choline mix. As you are no doubt aware, that combo has the dual effect of helping to keep AcH alive (effectively increasing its half life) while helping to enhance AcH production. The combined effect has a very profound net result. Suddenly, I was reintroduced to that phenomenon I experienced as a child. I was able to easily maintain awareness during wakeful to REM transitions characterized by powerful head/neck vibrations. The often cited "waves of electricity up and down the body" vibrations were realized only occasionally. What was most interesting here was that I started to differentiate between lucid dreaming and out of body experiences (OBE). I felt these direct transitions via the vibrational state were the latter, and the overall experience was sufficiently different from traditional lucid dreaming to warrant its own categorization and approach.

Now, onto vibrations. It's hard to dig into this subject and my personal theories without some background. But I will say upfront that I have yet to hear a sufficiently convincing theory and/or explaination as to what these are precisely. Countless people have experienced the effect. But they remain a mystery as best I can tell.

Now I am not a theoretical physicist. I say that upfront. But there are a number of conjectures and theories in that space that I find very interesting. I think we'll get into what I call the convergence problem a little later. For now, let's keep it a little scientific. There are several interesting results that fall out of theoretical and quantum physics as I understand it. One is the belief that there are upwards of 26 dimensions in our universe. Now we are intimately familiar with our usual four (three spatial dimensions plus time). Well, where are the missing 22? I wouldn't be the first person to suggest that maybe, just maybe, the dreamspace has physicality in some sense. Now, let's look at quantum physics. Again, we'll keep it very high level. But it is well accepted that human observation and consciousness has an effect on quantum particle superposition state. Going back to the dream world, isn't it interesting that it behaves sort of like a macroscopic quantum reality? That is to say that mental energy is the force creating the "physical" realities of the dreamspace. Finally, there is a conjecture that falls out of this notion of multi-dimensional space. Without loss of generality, let's call our 4 dimensions lower dimensional space (LDiS) and the remaining 22 dimensions higher dimensional space (HDS). It is theorized that points in LDis and HDS can be linked hyperdimensionally. In other words, these points are not truly orthogonal but rather bleed into each other. If that were true, then a force meaningful in one space could traverse into the other space and manifest as a change in fundamental force meaningful to that space.

Now, what does this have to do with vibrations? If one assumes that one's dreamspace is a projection into HDS, then it would stand to reason that it may be possible to transfer force from HDS into LDiS and vice versa. Now in LDiS there are four fundamental forces. Electromagnetic (EM), gravity and weak/strong nuclear. I think we're all in general agreement that mental energy IS the force meaningful to the dreamspace. What if the OBE creates a scenario in which a hyperdimensional link were set-up between these two nearly orthogonal spaces (LDiS/HDS)? Mental energy or consciousness traverses up the ladder (since that is the force meaningful to the dreamspace). EM force traverses down the ladder and into one's physical body in LDiS. Multi-dimensional conservation of energy is maintained, the universe remains balanced and mother nature is satisfied. Now the force in question is probably doing nothing more than tickling some element of the brain and creating the perception of powerful vibrations. Yes, this is a complex theory. One which would need further corroboration (another possible topic for later). But be careful on the application of Occam's Razor. I've seen it fail. Especially true when we dig into some of these larger mysteries, such as extracting verifiable info from lucid dreams, PSI phenomenon in general and the like.

DK: I'd like to hear more about your hypothesis that the dreamspace is a projection into the higher dimensions of physical reality. If that turns out to be true, what would be the implications? Would it mean we might be able to alter physical reality from within our dreams? Could we alter, or perceive, physical reality at locations distant from our physical bodies in space or time (past and/or future)? What experiments could be done, or have been done, to provide evidence for or against this hypothesis?

DrT: There are many places to go with that question, John. Let's try to pick it apart one piece at a time. First, let's consider the fact that we really need a model of some kind to make progress. Perhaps we should start with a few observations. History is rife with examples of telepathy and clairvoyance via dreams. A related topic of course would be remote viewing via various altered states of consciousness. If you do a little searching on these topics you won't need to look far. From my own personal perspective, I have experienced uncanny predictions of future scenes, events and outcomes via my dreams. Non-lucid ones in general. I most recently documented a dream on September 26th in my MM dream journal which appears like it will come to fruition later this week. Now, perhaps I am being too literal, or too 4 dimensional? But these phenomenon seem to imply that the dreamspace provides a conduit for information at the very least. One which is not bound by time as we know it. So at very least it's a channel, as we understand the concept. The basic argument that seems popular is that our dreaming mind is not filtering out PSI noise as effectively as our waking mind and this PSI info can in fact permeate our dreams. In my own experience, certain natural psychoactive substances such as silene capensis can be used with favorable effect here as well. But then there is this whole question of altering physical reality. Let's turn away from my thoughts and perspective and turn our attention to a higher profile dreamer. In Robert Waggoner's book Lucid Dreaming, he cites a number of cases of apparent healing via the dream state. That is actually a much more challenging and profound example than anything I've tried to pick off. Certainly I applaud his courage for taking a rather risky topic and developing the potential concept. Now if the examples cited in his book had a dreamer focusing healing energy on themselves or another in a dream and it had an apparent physical effect, what does that mean? Well, if it's real, we couple this with the information conduit observations and can only conclude a true physical dreamspace link into WRS (waking reality space). The challenge with this type of experiment of course is how to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the healing was accelerated for the reasons proposed.

The challenge of "proving" an otherwise poorly understood physical phenomenon and effect is the fundamental problem in all PSI research. PSI research invariably relies on repeated experiments and statistical inference to draw conclusions. But even when the odds against chance for some experiment are a billion to one, all that's been accomplished is a strong inference. Not proof. But when these inferences are made again and again, tallying up independent trials yielding a billion to one, or a trillion to one, a quadrillion to one odds ... what then? At what point are we forced to acknowledge the fact that something is going on?

The basic theory I propose, of the dreamspace being a projection into one or more orthogonal dimensions seems to provide an acceptable model. It would not be bound by space and time as we know it. It can link into our 4-D world and information/force would be able to flow in a bidirectional manner. In other words, information could flow into the dreamspace from arbitrary points in space time. Force could traverse from this HDS into our physical world as well. As I mentioned earlier, there is theoretical justification for this concept.

It may seem like I'm digressing. But I want to introduce the whole convergence concept, then perhaps we can circle back to some experiments I've run and what they seem to imply.

The convergence problem as I define it, is one of pulling together various disciplines and results in order to achieve a more complete picture and understanding of our world. We can look at concepts of life after death, reincarnation and the impermanence of the "soul". We can look at Eastern concepts, especially those arising from Tibetan Dream Yoga such as the Six Realms model (and its uncanny similarity to the multidimensional model I allude to). We can look at quantum physics and string/M-theory. We can review the perspective and results of many of the great Western thinkers in dreamwork, those predominantly from the field of psychology. We can review PSI research. We can look to Shamanism and the use of altered state of consciousness to glean insight into the meaning of life and the universe around us. So I ask you, who's got it right?

Well if we're being pragmatic, I think the answer is most likely to be that there is some truth, wisdom and insight to be absorbed from each of these genres. But doesn't that mean what is really required here is someone who can cherry pick some of the relevant portions of each, extrapolate and project? Create a model, gather data, tweek the model and converge to a measurable result? Well, who is engaged in that effort? Would one of the necessary requirements be to have a natural propensity to operate out of body, if indeed that is the ultimate tool to pull this all together?

That is the convergence problem as I define it. Now in my humble opinion the person who has come closest to this thus far would probably be Robert Monroe. But even he lamented on the fact that dreamspace-to-WRS communication was something he was only able to measure anecdotally, not objectively. Of course Monroe's personal production of insights has also been sorely missed for the last 15 years. Well ... at least in a literal sense.

So where to go from here? The first observation I offer is that insight is going to be a multi-tiered challenge in and of itself. One needs to have enough knowledge of these different genres to be influenced by but not overwhelmed by each. The other crucial step in my opinion is a reliable method of using PSI to chase PSI. Doesn't that seem intuitive? Why chase PSI via purely scientific methods for example. Isn't that like swatting a fly with a baseball bat? It might work, but it doesn't seem like the right tool. Science doesn't always have the answer. Sometimes it needs a little help. Open your proverbial history books and do a little digging. Tesla and Edison were both prolific inventors. They were also both essentially mystics. What were they tapping into precisely?

In my experience, I've been able to use a particular altered state of consciousness to develop three specific sets of ideas,experiments and results. I've been able to prove to myself the relationship between PSI and this state of awareness. It's pointed me in the right direction time and time again without any real analysis or effort on my part. This is the sort of mechanism and approach that seems to stand the best chance. This coupled with exploration of the out of body state. These are my personal tools of choice.

Posted it up front.  Haven't had a chance to read it yet, so haven't put much of a summary up.

In the original thread, Freespirit gives permission to use this as an article and publish it up front.

Quote from: Freespirit on December 06, 2010, 08:00:58 AMThis is a simple technique for those who wish to improve their awareness on the borderline of sleep. Those of you who have read Stephen LaBerge's exploring the world of lucid dreaming may recognise the following quote:

Stevenson was not explicit about whether his brownies were characters of lucid dreams. It appears from his reports that they were mental images that appeared during lucid hypnagogic reverie. The technique the writer used was to lie in bed with his forearm perpendicular to the mattress. He found that he could drift easily into his familiar fantasy workshop, and if he fell into a deeper sleep, his forearm would fall to the mattress and awaken him.

So basically you lie down to go to sleep, as you get closer to sleep raise your forearm so its balanced at the elbow. It shouldn't feel in any way uncomfortable, and you should be able to continue your descent into sleep as normal. If you're not sure what i mean take a look at one of Da Vinci's most famous works below:

The idea is simple, relax and attempt to fall asleep as normal while maintaining a thread of awareness. Observe the onset of sleep, watch as hypnotic imagery begins to form in your vision, and see how you get sucked into it and slowly lose consciousness. If at any point you actually fall asleep your arm will fall and wake you. The objective is to retain a degree of awareness and observe your body falling asleep, aswell as to practice playing on the borderlands of sleep without succumbing to it. The nice thing about this technique is that you can try as many times as you wish, usually WILD is a one shot thing (you either get it or you fall asleep).

I thought id share an extract from a recent experience to finish off: As i fell deeper I heard what sounded like someone breathing beside me, calmly and rhythmically it continued even though i was alone in the room. I guessed it maybe the beginning of sleep paralysis or hypnogogia, but listening peacefully i realised it was my breathing, and that i had no control over it nor connection with it. Id fallen asleep, or atleast my body had, but here i was still consciously thinking with waking awareness. It was an amazingly freeing feeling. I decided to find out if my body was paralysed by moving (even though i wasn't in REM) and the experience was ended =(.

Have fun all and good luck with your lucid endevours =)

Interesting. My problem is usually waking out of the WILD too soon, so I don't want to set myself up to get woken out of it on purpose. I can see how this could help people who have trouble falling asleep too fast though. Laying on my back is usually enough to enable me to stay aware during the process. I don't fall asleep very easily that way. Actually, I usually get so uncomfortable like that It's very difficult for me to remain laying that way. I keep wanting to just roll over and fall asleep.

CWILD is caffeine-withdrawal induced lucid dream.  This may be one of the most effective supplement methods for inducing lucidity yet described, but unfortunately it is limited to those people who are addicted to caffeine.

Caffeine, like various other stimulants, is known to potentially induce lucidity when taken before a nap or at WBTB, with variable effectiveness.   However, for people with caffeine tolerance/addiction, if caffeine withdrawal is present prior to the caffeine ingestion, it seems to be a much more effective oneirogen.  If true withdrawal is present, the rate of effectiveness is almost 100%.  Lesser degrees of withdrawal may lead to decreased effectiveness.

The advantage of CWILD is that no tolerance is induced, which is a major drawback of the other LDS.   Instead, it takes advantage of the caffeine tolerance that some people already have; therefore, it can be used as often as is convenient for the dreamer.

The method is very simple.   The most important thing is to be physically addicted to caffeine to the point where symptoms, primarily headache, but also feeling of grogginess and relaxation, are felt when caffeine is withheld.  The time it takes to get into a state of withdrawal will vary from person to person.  Usually, refraining during the day, or at least past early morning,  is sufficient for withdrawal to be felt that night at WBTB.   Then a normal WBTB routine is used, with ingestion of caffeine at that time.  It has been found that going back to sleep as quickly as possible, before the caffeine has time to be absorbed, may prevent insomnia, which is a risk with this method.  Use during daytime naps is possible as well.

What happens to me is, I stay in bed observing myself sleeping for so long and suddenly WTFudge it's morning! I thought I was doing good.

I keep forgetting to try this!  Thanks for bumping it.

Quote from: Moonbeam on January 02, 2011, 08:02:19 PM  I keep forgetting to try this!  Thanks for bumping it. No probs. I am gonna do it tonight. Report back on your result!

I've been meaning to try this to, but i've been kinda slacking with everything dreaming.

I WILD'ed twice last week, unintentionally. I was so tired but it was to early to go to sleep... I layed down with the intent of closing my eyes and drifting for just a bit, but not really sleeping. Both times SP came over me and i found myself dreaming!

In one of the WILD's i didn't have a body... I wanted to bite my finger (RC) but my hand went straight through my head! I was in the dark so i couldn't check if i was invisible to. It was weird and has inspired me to learn to WILD now!

Quote from: mediabat on January 02, 2011, 08:42:48 PMQuote from: Moonbeam on January 02, 2011, 08:02:19 PM  I keep forgetting to try this!  Thanks for bumping it. No probs. I am gonna do it tonight. Report back on your result!

Lol I thought of it last night, but I realized it's hard when you lie on your side like I do, and also it was too cold to stick my arm out of the covers.  But I'll keep it in mind and I will do it sometime.  The best times to do it are not when I'm thinking the most clearly, so I'll probably have to make a few attempts.

Quote from: feist on January 03, 2011, 03:54:05 AMIn one of the WILD's i didn't have a body... I wanted to bite my finger (RC) but my hand went straight through my head! I was in the dark so i couldn't check if i was invisible to. It was weird and has inspired me to learn to WILD now!

That's great!  It seems like you will be good at it if you practice!  Try to do it every time you randomly wake up at night too.

This is from last night. QuoteI went to bed at midnight. I did some mindfulness meditation for 5 minutes then went to bed. As I laid there I repeated the mantra, "I wake up at 5 o'clock and remember my dream." I was also trying the WILD awareness practice. My arm became tired and I had to switch from my left to right arm. Eventually, I stopped altogether because I rested my arm for too long and in that time I fell asleep. I guess that I maybe have had my forearm up too early. Even so my forearm dropped once because I was tired so I guess it helped with awareness a little bit. No dreams were recalled when I woke up.

Posted up front.

Posted up front.

Where is up front?

http://mortalmist.com/

Quote from: Moonbeam on January 03, 2011, 03:25:34 PMhttp://mortalmist.com/

Oh cool thanks.

I remember this technique from a while ago. I used to use it all the time, then I forgot about it. (Though I'm pretty sure I used it to keep me from falling asleep while meditating.) Now that it's the new year and I'm more focused on my dreaming, I think I might try this again for the "creative HI."

Quote from: Moonbeam on January 03, 2011, 08:13:25 AMThat's great!  It seems like you will be good at it if you practice!  Try to do it every time you randomly wake up at night too.

Yes. I try to MILD as much as possible, and i'm hoping to combine the two. I've already had a couple of unintended WILD's through my MILD's. Repeating a mantra seems to be a good way for me to maintain some awareness while falling asleep!

I've noticed that since I started using this technique again, my HI has started becoming a lot more powerful during the times when I'm NOT using it. This morning, for instance, I was just drifting off to sleep when a creepy voice whispering my name startled me back into awareness. I'd had some really powerful visual HI even earlier, almost like a daydream gone wild. (Which makes me think that this would be a good way to practice Jung's "active imagination.")

I totally agree that the method of  holding on to awareness into hypnogogic state is  probably the  best way to lucid dream.. My only  three OBEs  happened this way a couple years back but the effects of galantamine and choline bitartate in healthy doses  seemed to help the process along.. When this happened ..I would always notice a dark stranger standing in a dark corner of the room watching me.. I once yelled that you don't scare me!.. at the shadow person ..as I struggled to  sit up in bed ..All along I had a underlying awareness  of what was really going on... I continued to struggle to sit up then finally was  sitting up in bed with my body still lying  there under me.. I then stood up   in full dream body and found self in a different room as I explored everything in the including feeling the texture of the walls observing tables lamps pictures on the wall and looking out a window seeing a whole new world just outside and everything I saw and touched was awesome .just like it was my first time..my world was brand new and I had a chance to control it..

In my second OBE  from effects of galanamine and choline I became aware that someone was holding down my shoulders in  bed  and.. yes...there was that mysterious shadow person watching me from a corner of the room..

As I gazed around the room I saw a FULL SIZED    Bengal Tiger curled up in another corner of my room watching me with glowing eyes..

I was also hearing many strange sounds and  could see what looked like child's toys and a couple strange looking dolls sitting on a table with the moonlight shinning on them..

I then redirected my attention to the huge tiger that made me feel a little  nervous..

With some effort I powered out of the bed and ..[watching the tiger]..I ran past the tiger down a hallway seeing my reflexion in the mirror  as I passed it I literally ran through wall at end of hall then woke up..

All the time I had a hidden awareness  of what was really going on in the experience..

This awareness always stands back behind the stage curtain ready to come to my aid if dream gets to be too much...

In another OBE..I again noticed the dark stranger watching me early in morning also the hands holding down my shoulders ..only this time I was more aware of what was going on and started rolling side to side till I rolled completely out of bed on to the soft dream floor.

I then stood up and was in a strange room again complete with paintings on the walls and furniture Ive never seen before and a TV playing kinda loud  on a table..

In my new dream body I could feel the weight of my feet as I walked across the deep plush dream carpet towards the TV..

When i got to he TV I turned down the volume with some difficulty and then started changing channels and amazingly every channel had something different playing on it!

The walls had a strange texture that was flesh colored and the colors every  in the room could almost talk to me!

I appreciated Everything in this strange world as if it was the first time ever seen!~

I was quite aware that i was in a super dream of awesome dimension and walked towards my door expecting to go out into a huge dream city and could go or do anything I wanted..

After opening the door i peaked out side a  long street in front of me and buildings everywhere..

But for some reason I quickly shut the door and locked it then woke up in bed for real!

That was an awes one  3D dream experience much like an OBE...

I think the galantamine choline effect made it seem so real but this can be done naturally if one maintains awareness into the dream...

Learning to WILD must be the most awesome way to Lucid dream...

Cheers..tom

Moonbeam had a great dream last Saturday, I think, where she was really nonchalant with one of those SP specters.  It was comical and instructive.

I think Dali the artist must have found a way into the dream world through SP! A lot of the stuff I saw in my room the Tiger and other strange things are much like what he paints... But using the arm dropping method or spoon method sounds promising but one must  use honest effort to see if it works.. Tom

Agreed - but I've discovered just how difficult an "honest effort" can be.  His methods are bizarre, to put it mildly.  And uncomfortable.

Hi All..

I tryed for the first time this morning after 4 hours sleep at WBTB to try to WILD by  bending my arm at elbow and keeping it vertical..

I also wore a cats collar with bells on my wrist that I hoped to hear if my arm fell down at some point..

At first I tryed this lying on my right side but found lying on my back was more comfortable even though I usually never sleep on my back..

Keeping my  right arm vertical [upright] bent at elbow I layed there on my back with head slightly to the right..[but upward]

I found that overtime I would loose the feel of my arm and only feel my hand ..

I also was listening to falling rain recordings that aided to my calmness..

Still believing that my fore arm was vertical kept me in a constant state of awareness...

As i waited....  my journey to the hypnogogic borderlands and sleep paralysis seemed to take forever..

Just the same.. I was doing well not moving and lying still looking into the darkness with  [my minds eyes open.] ..peering through my closed eyelids and listening for any auditory clues  to develop..

I think I stayed this way for close to 90 minutes....

[motionless except to occasionally swallow] ..and was amazed at how long my arm seemed to stay upright without falling..i thought to my self..

Well into the experiment I would see myself flying above clouds and looking below me at dark and Grey  clouds with occasional lightning flashes..

I also visualized rain running down rooftops and rain  swollen streams with water carrying pieces of driftwood and natural plant debris like oak leaves floating with the currant of the water..

..............[this may be related to the rain recordings i was listening to]....

I also would get short peeks at imagery still quite alert but feeling much different than when I started..

I was also experiencing on and off feelings of my physical body growing lighter then heavier...

Then two thirds of the way through I started getting the strongest body pulsations Ive ever felt in my life!

They were like a vibration that started at booth feet evenly and worked its way upward through my ankles knees upward to my chest arms and head ...

Then back to my feet and upward again in strong rhythmic pulsations!!

The ...[vibrations].. would keep pulsing ..pulse.....pulse ...pulse...pulse..and I new something important was going on!

These strong vibrating pulses repeated about 6 or 7 times and  as this happened i was feeling lighter and lighter as if i were a leaf being blown across a field... !

The feeling was awesome!!

My guess is that... [I was very close to achieving sleep paralysis]...  and a chance for an OBE or great lucid dream!

I have felt vibrations over my entire body in the past but not perfectly timed strong  ones moving in perfect alignment pulsing from feet to head over and over!

I think what i  was feeling was the process of my body disconnecting all physical feeling and entering SP!

I just allowed this to stop and with some difficulty became more awake noticing that my arm was laying on my side and not still upright as i believed it was all that time....

What happened was my arm slowly and gently went down over the process and did not just fall suddenly waking me as i believed it would..

When i looked at my arm it was lying on my side and my hand felt like pins and needles..

i also went on the rest of the morning to have 6 more dreams and two of them had my hand in it as a main subject..

I want to try this vertical forearm thing again and get back to those great pulsations...

For a first try this method got me close the OBE or LD gate!...

cheers..Tom

PS....All I took at bedtime was GPC choline and a little melatonin and one theanine...

I guess we are all different and many things work differently on us...

Would this not mess up your sleeping schedule? well its not like most of the methods don't anyway.. WBTB kinda messed me up i could not get back to sleep after and was tired the next day for school but i haven't heard of caffeine method until now, is this your invention made via trial and error or is it well known and i just didn't do my homework before posting?

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i've tried this before seems like a good idea and all but i have one problem with it. when i lie for a long-ish period of time on the bed i fall asleep and do not notice when my hand falls down or i do notice the first couple of times but then i just fall asleep anyway maybe i should focus my mind a fraction more on keeping conscious?

Quote from: Moonbeam on July 08, 2011, 07:36:41 AMNot recommended for school nights.

Yeah i know NOW but trying WBTB was shortly after my first ever LD and i was willing to do ANYTHING to get that buzz of control again you must know what i mean. Do you think the effectiveness of CWILD is worth getting addicted to caffeine?

Quote from: SmifoPL on July 08, 2011, 07:39:56 AMi've tried this before seems like a good idea and all but i have one problem with it. when i lie for a long-ish period of time on the bed i fall asleep and do not notice when my hand falls down or i do notice the first couple of times but then i just fall asleep anyway maybe i should focus my mind a fraction more on keeping conscious? Yes that's a good idea. The first time I did it, it was amazing. I caught myself hallucinating. But during the subsequent times, I just fell asleep.

just to make sure I get this right - dont drink during day or at least after the 2 starters in the morning and then WBTB with a cup of coffee. I have to try this one

Yes - but if you aren't addicted to caffeine it is less effective. The withdrawal seems to be a big part of what makes this work.

Quote from: pj on October 30, 2011, 10:15:52 AMYes - but if you aren't addicted to caffeine it is less effective. The withdrawal seems to be a big part of what makes this work.

Has this been tested without reintroducing caffeine at WBTB?  To determine if it's the recent withdrawal itself that is providing the benefit (perhaps by disrupting the routine of addiction).

Not in any formal way - no.  I have had withdrawal headaches plenty of times without trying to satisfy it and not experienced lucidity though.

It is a good question and worthy of some kind of systematic exploration.

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............It's the caffeine.  There have been nights........

So!.. it is the [caffeine] that is helping with lucidity!

The next question is....is coffie alone more effective in boosting lucidity [in dreams]..?

Or can other caffeine sources [such as caffeine pills or green tea]...work ..[as well].. as coffie?

Because ..if coffie works best.. it contains more than 1000 other substances  in it that may be adding to the effect..

Also..why does coffie work so well for those who are used to it? When people who arent used to coffie just get insomnia?

Perhaps a smaller measured dose of caffeine could work for those not used  to it?

It is interesting how caffeine has the action of waking up the part of the brain that controls criticle awareness..even during sleep... Tom.

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hahah Interesting method but I just couldnt stop drinking my morning coffee ! there are much more effective methods that could work

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How strong does the addiction need to be for the withdrawal to work?

From our experience, strong enough that you get a headache when you stay away from caffeine for a long enough period.  For me that is about 10 - 12 hours.  The headache does seem to be essential when using this method.

For me it's 24 hours. I usually only get my caffeine dose once every 24 hours. Sometimes it just makes things more difficult because it forces me to wake up to get my fix when I could be sleeping in longer. But I've cut back to a pretty small dose now.

This morning I woke up a couple of hours past the 24 hour point with a headache but I wasn't ready to wake up up yet. I took a caffeine pill tried to go back to sleep which I did. No lucid but pretty vivid recall afterward and woke up and my headache was gone at least.

--- Quote from: SmifoPL on July 08, 2011, 07:39:56 AM ---i've tried this before seems like a good idea and all but i have one problem with it. when i lie for a long-ish period of time on the bed i fall asleep and do not notice when my hand falls down or i do notice the first couple of times but then i just fall asleep anyway maybe i should focus my mind a fraction more on keeping conscious?

--- End quote --- Yes that's a good idea. The first time I did it, it was amazing. I caught myself hallucinating. But during the subsequent times, I just fell asleep.