Hello, All....

As discussed in previous posts, I have been trying to fly in my LDs. Until about an hour ago, I had tried everything...no luck. This is what happened:

I had just become lucid and, for some reason, everything was a little dark. This happens to me frequently. My tactile sensations will be excellent, but my vision will be a little blurry or dark. I was standing in the middle of my room and leaped straight up in the air. My fingertips touched the ceiling, which is quite the accomplishment, as I have 9 1/2' ceilings. I sort of "slow-mo'd" it back down, with a reduced gravity effect. I tried again, same thing. I jumped again and, for whatever reason, made myself suspend in the air. I just had that "I know I can do this" feeling. From that point, it was just a matter of stretching out and motoring. I'm really not certain why I was kicking my legs, though......

I went outside and tried again, this time meeting up with "normal" gravity. I decided to fall backwards to see if I would land hard or what. I sort of floated down. I did this several times, falling more softly each time. After the last "fall", I decided to levitate. No Prob! I got to about 5' off the ground, did a horizontal 180, and flew back and forth across the yard.

WooHoo! I know this probably doesn't sound as exciting as it was, but it opens up new possibilities for me. Maybe you just had to be there! (And I hope you are----Soon!)

Happy Holidays. May all your dreams be merry!

You did it! Congratulations!

I often kick my legs and move my arms in swimming motions when I'm flying. (A slow breast stroke with a frog kick, usually... My dad taught me distance swimming when I was a kid and I went for miles like that.) Sometimes I remind myself that I can just jet around at will, and do that too. Or slowly drift with a zero-gravity effect, or bob up and down like a helium balloon.... Free fall is wonderful....

Now that we've gone and started a new thread, anyone want to speculate on why the physical sensations associated with dream flight seem so realistic, although most of us don't have the same experience to draw upon from waking life?

Joy:

The answer might lie more in manifested expectation than experience. After all, unassisted flight in the waking realm, a.k.a. falling, carries definite sensations. Other than those, the sensations that we experience during dream flight really are only those which we expect to experience. They could be wind, speed, maneuverability, or any number of a host of other physical feelings, but all would be based on what we expect to encounter during our flights. I would guess that there are many flyers out there who experience no sensation at all while flying because the act is simply a speedy lift to the next experience.

So, the experience only feels realistic because the LD'er wants it to be that way. We're defining the sensations as we go, based on our own expectations. Though they sure can feel amazingly realistic, I wonder how often the experience of flight might compare to the reality that a sparrow, or perhaps a bat, encounters with each of its natural flights.

Peter

Peter, what do you feel when you fly?

Joy

Gee, Joy, ya didn't ask me what I felt! I understand what you're getting at, though.

Peter--> Of course, your statement is true for all dream experiences. It is, in fact, part of what makes LDs so exciting! Anything one may experience in an LD is based on some sort of expectation. That is why I am now conducting experiments in improving skill sets relating to activities I enjoy in the waking realm. Can I develop a better and more consistent golf swing by "practicing" in my dreams? Will those guitar riffs sound a little cleaner and be a little quicker if I devote some dream practice time to them? I consider myself a prolific reader with fast and efficient technique. Is it possible to improve these skills using LDs? With the ability to induce lucid dreams at will, the results of these experiments shouldn't take too long to gather. I will report back.....

To anyone experiencing difficulty attaining lucidity, I would encourage you to continue practicing WILDS, as this seems the most reliable gateway (for me) to lucid dreaming. I am writing my own "instruction manual" on this technique, which I will post as soon as it is finished. It doesn't provide any "new" material per se, but rather a couple of different focus and concentration techniques that are probably documented elsewhere, but I haven't read about them.

Happy holidays to all!

I have a dream....

Joy:

What do I feel when I fly? Not much, physically. No wind, no changes in temperature, no vertigo, no g-forces in turns. Maybe a sensation of motion at some level, but I barely acknowledge it. Basically when I fly I'm moving through air/space with no restriction of any sort ' as planned.

That's physically. What I feel spiritually is something else altogether! Flight for me cleanly snaps the shackles of mundane life and allows me to sample perfect freedom, clear power, and an elemental unification with whatever environment I am exploring. On lesser levels, a certain arguably visceral rush at being able to move in 3 dimensions at will does tend to accompany my flights; and, of course, I rarely finish a flight without an almost giddy sense of delight.

The spiritual drama of flight has always trumped the actual physics of the activity for me, so I guess my expectations have abandoned the physicality of the action itself. I focus more on what flying entails in my dreams than on what I understand it to be in waking life. My loss, possibly: I may be missing out on some pretty cool sensations, but to me the trade is well worth it.

Peter

Lee:

That's an excellent idea for an experiment; I hope it works for you. Just be very careful of one thing ' those pesky expectations!

Skills, especially physical skills, are acquired when you learn to manipulate real objects or scenarios in a manner to which you were unfamiliar before. For instance, in waking life you might perfect your golf swing when your body learns that if it moves in a particular manner the club's arc is exact enough to hit the ball correctly. With time, that works great, in waking life. In dreams, you run into a problem. You could hit that ball any way you want to ' hell, you could swing a flamingo at it if you'd like ' and you'll hit the ball perfectly every time. If that's what you want. To learn, or even improve, physical skills you require stimuli from events or physical conditions you might not even know about yet. Without those stimuli, you are just telling yourself that the ball flew great because of your stance change without allowing the world a chance to confirm or deny your change.

Playing music is in the same category skill-wise (you must allow the physical world to offer its feedback when you pluck those guitar strings), but I agree that there is lots of room in dreams to nurture songwriting skills, and even hone a deeper sense of pure music itself. Reading is definitely a place to go, too. As long as the growth can come from inside you, the opportunity for development can indeed be limitless.

So, this experiment sounds very exciting. Just be sure you hit the links to try out your dream-perfected swing before you start making bets with your buddies!

Good luck!

Peter

Hi Joy & fellow dream fliers,

The physical sensations I've experienced during dream flight include a sense of weightlessness, of moving at uncommon speed, of air passing between my fingers, and of wind stroking my hair. I've not noticed any particular rushing wind sound (like one hears while parachuting).

Like Peter commented, the emotional sensations are particularly cherished. These have included ecstasy, a thrilling rush, pure and abundant delight, along with the glee that accompanies unrestricted freedom.

Sometimes simply hovering in a lucid dream brings an overwhelming joy that would seem far out of proportion to the activity itself. Airborne somersaults have left me giddy for days, but then, as friends are quick to remind me, I have always been easily amused.

If we kept an eye out for UFOs (unidentified flying oneironauts) in our dreams, I'll bet we'd find them all grinning as well.

;) Keelin

Just an idea about why flying seems so realistic in dreams: I don't think it's all based on expectation, I think experience is also involved. Remember that everything we ever feel, see, hear, taste and smell gets stored in our subconsciousness. Experiments with hypnotized people's ability to go back in time and remember the slightest little detail of any experience have proven this. Isn't it also then possible that our own experiences with falling, jumping, diving, the wind in our hair and similar sensations can create a realistic physical flying experience by combining stored memories of near-flight or flight-like experiences?

Andre:

Of course experience plays a role in anything we dream; in a sense, experience defines and perhaps drives expectation! No argument there"

Peter

Hi,

I am very new and know very little about the dream topics yet. But I fly very often in my dreams (especially if it is a lucid dream). I can begin to fly by just thinking it. I feel very light and out of gravity. I can direct myself just with my thoughts or directing my eyes to the drection I want to fly. I don't do any special things as birds or swimming. I fly any way I prefer at the moment of the dream (backwards, down, high, slow, fast, lying, moving my legs etc.) It mostly gives a very good feeling of sooting, happiness and freedom. I never used, know or practiced any techniques. It seemed like a normal part of my dreams all my life. I thought everybody may know he/she is dreaming during the dream and can fly (etc), I didn' know there were special tchniques untill I begin to search about dreams in the internet in the last 2-3 weeks. Thanks to Keelin and Joy, I believe I will learn more from now on.

Ilkin

Warm greetings to you, Ilkin, welcome to the Forum! You're a very talented dreamer. I hope you'll share many of your experiences with all here.

Thanks to all who have described your experiences of flight, and ideas of whence they came. For me there are, along with emotions of delight, exhilaration and freedom, dream-physical sensations of speed, weightlessness, unusual position changes, etc. Bobbing up and down like a helium balloon is just plain fun. A slow free-fall is one of the most sensuous experiences.

I find it wonderful that our minds can make such realistic-seeming sensations out of bits and pieces of flight-like experience, even for those of us who haven't been hang-gliding or parachuting or anything like that. I generally assume that I've patched together "Flying" out of the swift open-air movements of skiing and bicycling; the free motion in all directions of swimming; the brief free-fall of a jump from a high boulder; the momentary weightlessness of elevator descents.... And I also wonder if there is - along with our analogous experiences - some sort of archetype of flight deep within our shared consciousness.

Joy

Thank you Joy.

I am trying to learn more. Yesterday, very interesting idea passed from my mind. I thought, "can I make an experiment myself, can I try to fly to anyone who I am mailing (like you)and try to see he/her. Or make this experiment with somebody at the same night and try to meet somewhere (for example over an island wich we will chose from a map)?"

Do you it may worth to try?... (Or am I thinking impossible because of my ignorance)

Hi, Ilkin -

I think it would be a good experiment and definitely possible. I have a few times, on my own, intentionally flown out to look for someone and found some details of their surroundings or circumstance which they verified later. I don't think I was "really there" in the physical world - just perceiving without regard to space or time.

I've read of some people having success with experiments of intentionally meeting each other in a dream. All of my shared dreams (dreaming the same as someone else at the same time) have been accidental and I'm almost afraid to try doing it purposefully and be disappointed if it didn't work! Actually I do think it sort of worked once at Dream Camp.

Some Forum members have tried to arrange dream meetings - mostly the Maui group under "Open Conversation" - I'm not sure if they were satisfied with their success or not.

I'd guess you and I have a chance of finding each other, and with your talents you might be able to meet up with any number of Forum people who are interested. Maybe we should move this conversation to the "Synchronicity, Precognition, Remote Viewing, Space and Time" thread, found in the "Research, Theory and LI Experiments" section. If you go there, I hope you'll read some of our experiences (back through the archives) and add some of yours.

Yesterday when I was meditating I had the fleeting impression of a clear view of Istanbul. I didn't look for you - just enjoyed feeling that our minds could touch if we wanted.

Joy

Hi Joy,

Then why don't we think a little more and give a try. At worst we can't be successfull. I may be new and not ready yet but believe me I am reading and searching too fast. I am not very good using the forum yet so may be you can help to move the idea and converstation to other sections you mentioned.

By the way, how do you meditate? And what did you view in Istanbul?

Ilkin

The Forum is like a party in a big house with the most interesting guests; fascinating conversations going on in every room; and the weird thing is, when the conversation changes subject, we're supposed to interrupt ourselves and go to the room where that topic is being discussed...

I'll cut and paste some of our conversation from here into "Synchronicity, Precognition, Remote Viewing, Space and Time" which is under "Research, Theory and LI Experiments." And anyone who's interested in experiments with dreams that transcend the limitations of the physical senses will find us there.

My usual daily meditation practice involves relaxing and sensing the flow of my breath and the flow of energy through each chakra, gently returning my focus to that whenever I catch my mind wandering (which is often - I'm pretty new to this). So when my mind seemed to wander off to Istanbul I brought it back without looking around. There was just a brief high view out over a city through a whole wall of tall, clear glass windows, along with the idea that there really wasn't any distance between you and me. No way of knowing if it was just my own little concept - but a nice concept anyway, I think.

Joy

Hi Ilkin, Feel welcome to visit me in my dreams; perhaps you can wake me up while dreaming, so that I will realize that I am lucid. -LDs unfortunately don't come easy to me these days. If we, that is especially you, succeed to make dream contact, I'll let you know. Best, Edwin

Hi Edwin,

As I repeated mny times I am very new in reserching about dreams. I know sometimes ignorance couse people to dare what they can't do or above their capacities. It just passed from my mind while I was wisiting another forum and reading a massage. I don't know if I can do it or not. But I want to know what people think about it. I also look at it as a personal experience. I will try to visit you in my dream. Who knows, anything can happen....

Ilkin

.

Last night I tried to have an OBE, but it didn't work. However, I did have a lucid dream that night, but I'm not sure if it's the result of the OBE exercise, my renewed spark of interest in lucid dreaming, or just spontaneity.

I moved out of my brother's house 3 months ago, and my room was left completey empty til this day. In this lucid dream, I find myself walking around in this room, and then I visit my brother's room. I see him sleeping with his wife and I can't turn the light on. I check my watch and see a strange combination of tiny numbers, changing rapidly, as well as other random intricacies. Everyone in the house is asleep, so I get bored and leave the house through the front door (literally THROUGH the door like a ghost, without openning it.)

Once I'm outside, I run around in the street, gain some runway and take off, flying vertically, about 15 feet above the ground. I see lots of telephone cables and electric wires above my head and a guy on the ground below warns me not to get too close to them. He says I can get electrocuted and I could actually get hurt in my waking life this way.

Eventually, I wake up, despite my effort to prolong the lucid dream by actively engaging my dream body. Has anybody else experienced the feeling of flying vertically (standing) instead of horizontally (like superman)?

Dear Alex,

A warm welcome to the Forum to you and to all our recent new members -- and a heartfelt thank you to all who've been contributing to our ongoing discussions here.

Alex, congratulations on your lucid dream, and since you've mentioned "obe", if you've not already read it, I believe you'll find the article "Other Worlds: Out-of-Body Experiences and Lucid Dreams" by Lynne Levitan and Dr. Stephen LaBerge" of great interest. You'll find it at: lucidity.com/NL32.OBEandLD.html

Sweet lucid dreams to all, Keelin

Hi folks,

How does the mind do such a good job in simulating weightlessness when dream flying?

I wonder if our experience of swimming has something to do with it. I remember scuba diving for the first time (in waking life) and thinking - my god this reminds me of flying in my dreams.

I particularly remember how it felt to follow the line of the sea bed when it suddenly dropped off very suddenly and steeply, I was in fact starring over the precipice of a mountain, but underwater of course. I had a sudden feeling of vertigo even though there was no risk of falling. This feeling is exactly how I feel when flying too high in my dreams; I get a sinking feeling in my stomach and think, "oh my god I am going to fall". It takes quite a bit of courage to overcome this and carry on flying high. I dont get vetigo if I fly low enough to see the ground well.

I have also thought of this parallel when snorkling. I don't think many of us can really experience weightlessness many other ways in real life; though I guess the mind could conjure it up by creating the exact oposite of weightlessness which we are all familiar with as gravity of course.

What do you guys think?

Cheers Geoff.

Geoff,

Dr. LaBerge responded to a discussion of ours on this subject recently. He agrees with you that our experience of swimming may provide the schema for dream flying.

Paul

Geoff:

Keep in mind that when dreaming your imagination is going to produce an experience according to your own expectations, so something unusual like flying (or space travel, or walking through walls, or changing your sex, or anything else beyond the realm of daily sensation) will likely feel exactly right when you succeed in doing it. If examined objectively, those sensations might have nothing to do with reality (i.e. the dreamer's experience of flight might not bear any resemblance to what a bird encounters), but they will feel correct to the dreamer because they are what he expects. People with SCUBA or skydiving experience certainly have a leg up on accurately portraying flight in a dream, but anyone can fly regardless of experience or knowledge, because their own imagination is providing a scenario of flight that seems "just right.'

If you question your mind's ability to conjure your etheric playgrounds, you may guarantee that its range of presentation is limited to what you know in waking life ' and you've already been there!

Peter

I think flying is one of those unusual (impossible) tasks that we experience in lucid dreams that we all can accurately create. After all, most of us swim which gives us the weightless feeling. Even if we don't swim, the first nine months of our lives are weightless. Since I believe that time in the womb influences our lives as much as any other time I think our lives begin at conception.

Gene:

You are correct, if flying is limited to floating motionless in the air at low altitude. Defying gravity is an important aspect of flight. But wind, speed, maneuvering in the air, a high-altitude point of view, and the sensation of freedom derived from navigating a vast three-dimensional world are also aspects of flight that cannot be experienced by swimming, or floating in a womb.

My point was that flight provides an excellent, and very popular ' almost innate, example of imagination doing the impossible in a lucid dream. Openly experiencing flight while lucid can encourage your mind to accept other impossible scenarios, thus forming a stepping-stone toward the exploration of personal universes you never knew existed. To try to "ground" the experience of flight with mundane explanations could diminish your chances of taking a step closer to moments of wonder that defy description, much less physical explanation.

Peter

Dear Peter (and fellow fliers),

I whole-heartedly applaud your advocation of avigation! Having recently read "Dodo: A Brief History" by Errol Fuller, I feel for our unfortunate friend. Feathered but flightless, perhaps dear Dodo conjured working wings in Dreamland? As may we all!

Ready for take off? Keelin

Keelin:

Your wish for Mr. Dodo makes a perfect and appreciated analogy.

Or is that a metaphor?

My thanks in either case!

Peter

Keelin.

And don't forget poor Orville - "I wish I could fly but I can't" (British TV).

Seriously though it is fascinating how the dreaming mind conjures up brand new delicious coctails of experience for us to sample.

I guess it is only human to rationalise and try to find explanations for everything. Perhaps we shouldn't try too hard in case it spoils things for us. I often find myself rationalising in my dreams, explaining away all the otherwise obvious dreamsigns.

Lately my dreams have not been that interesting and certain recurring dream signs are proving very difficult to spot - but I'll keep trying.

Make mine a Vulcan Death Probe over crushed ice, but where to drink it?.

Geoff.

Geoff,

Well said! Sometimes a bit less rationalizing, both in the waking and dreaming worlds, can help.

Also, my wife, Lisa, wants to know what a Vulcan Death grip is (she said it sounds good!).

Peter

Hi Peter & Lisa

http://www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/Vulcan+death+grip

Cocktails: http://www.barnonedrinks.com/index/shooters/v.html

I guess flying is a common dream experience for most of us. I wonder how many recall eating/drinking, is there a discussion/thread on this that I have missed perhaps?

Geoff.

Geoff:

Thanks for the info!

There hasn't been much chat about eating/drinking in the forum, beyond some mention in the "Dazzling Details & Sensory Stuff" forum, directly beneath this forum on the "Post Your Lucid Dreams" menu.

Perhaps you could get us started?

Peter

Hi lucid dreamers!

Few hours ago I awoke from flying lucid dream, so I want to put down my impressions: wow

I found out that when I use "swimming style" for flying, I move very slowly. Today I used "superman style" and I was moving quickley. But, after some time flying in the subway, I began accelerating (I didnt want to) and couldnt stop it. Finally I succeeded and stopped my flight but it was a bit annoying.

Does anyone have similar experiences? Did it happened because I`m not very experienced flier?

Eva

Hellow fellow dream flyers.. I am working on dream lucidity now but years ago as a small child I would fly often while dreaming..My way while dreaming lucidly was to run as fast as I could out In the country and make a giant leap which would send me flying over the clouds for miles.As I flew I would look down and glide over farms hills trees lakes and everything ocasionaly a passing bird would fly by me..Then I would land on my feet very softly and keep running only to leap and send my self airborne again for miles across the child storybook countryside.It was a very happy time for me in my dreams. I never ran out of energy when doing this..I only wish I could have kept the secret of lucidity with me through my adult years!