Hello, First of all this is my first time starting a new thread so I hope it is in the correct place.

I was wondering if people have tried listening to music before they go to sleep in order to help induce lucid dreams. The reason I ask of this, is because I have noticed the capabilities of music and associated memories, which can trigger many psychological emotions. Although I am not a very experienced lucid dreamer yet (I've only had a couple, of low lucidity), whenever I listen to the soundtrack to the film Waking Life, my body immediately turns on memories of the movie, which trigger emotions and feelings of dreaming. The vivid colors and the floating feelings of the movie are recalled when I listen to the soundtrack. Since I am still learning how to be an experienced lucid dreamer, I can't say for myself if this helps induce LD, however I can say that while I am in my waking state, it gets me in the right state of mind for dreaming. Does anyone else have experience with this or know of any research that has been done?

Some other music/composers that help me get into a "dreaming state of mind" are Debussy (Piano preludes books I & II), Philip Glass, Chopin (Nocturnes), and some Stereolab and Yo La Tengo.

-Adam

Adam, I believe that sound could play a role in setting a mindset for lucid dreaming. Just how helpful it can be, however, I couldn't say. I haven't done the experiment on myself to find out. One thing is sure, though: If we expect something to help us--or hinder us--it likely will.

Keep us informed, please.

Paul

Adam, as well as being great before sleep, music can even better while you are actually dreaming. I've been experimenting with this a great deal over the last year, and for me at least, auditory input while you sleep can really help with lucid dreaming. As long as the music is at low-volume it should integrate perfectly into the dream and not disturb your sleep. I often create my own music compilations and I add my own lucidity prompts between the music tracks. For anyone who burns their own CD's this can be a great way to become lucid. I set the timer on my CD player to play at 5 or 6am (when I am most likely to be dreaming). For this to work, you will need a good set of ear-plug style phones (the ones that fit right into your ear canal). These are comfortable even when sleeping on your side and don't usually fall out even if you move around a lot during the night. It might also be helpful to get a headphone extension lead as this gives you some slack and prevents the phones from pulling out of your ears if you roll over in bed. Before burning the final compilation onto CD it's a good idea to Fade In the first track (so it begins silently and gradually increases in volume). This prevents you from being woken up by the music beginning too abruptly. For this, you'll need an audio editor such as Audacity or CoolEdit (Audacity is free, just do a search for it). Once you have applied the fade in, just save the track as a WAV or MP3 file and make it the first track on your CD. This method probably won't appeal to everyone, but it can produce great results.

Hello I fing falling asleep really difficult when i have music set, or playing or am wearing the novadreamer. I wish there was an easy way to fall asleep. When i go to bed with devices i keep thinking about being lucid and stay awake for the most part. Has anyone got some tips in falling asleep with these methods still being employed (music, ND etc)?

Best dreams,

Adam

Nick, Those are some good ideas. I had actually been doing similar things, but a little differently. I have also been making dream compliation cds, but since I don't have a timer mechanism for my sound system I can't do the same things you are capable of. Maybe I can try to get one of those computer alarm clocks that will open music files when you set them to do so. I actually have cool edit, so I will have to experiment alterting tracks to make them better for this type of situation. In terms of earphones, I can't say I enjoy the in the ear models. I used to use them when I would listen to music and fall asleep (before I got into LD), and I would wake up with them tangled all around me and my ears were not comfortable after I awoke.

A few questions: Do you use the music cues in the same manner as you would for a novadreamer cue?

Do you hear just a portion of the track playing as you attend to the cue or does it carry throughout your dream?

How do you train yourself to recognize these musical cues in waking state?

For Adam (Aszmerling)- All I can suggest, from my own experience, is that if I have music on while I am trying to sleep (with LD in mind or not), and it is too loud, it usually takes me a while to fall asleep because I want to closely listen to the music. However, if I turn it down to the right level, I find that I have the option of listening to it intently or just letting it fill up the air and not really pay attention to it. In other words, it may help to find a certain threshold in which works for you best. I hope you find a way to help you get to sleep faster.

What do people think about music below the absolute threshold, acting as a subliminal priming device to possibly induce LD through the unconscious?

-Adam

Thanks Adam. That is helpful. I recently completed a hypnosis workshop. There was a guy there who was a sound engineer and musician who talked about theories of music below the threshold of awareness. Apparently there are no scientific studies to date on the effectiveness of this method for any application. However this sound expert was of the strong view that certain musical pieces played below conscious threshold had a definite calming effect of groups (in his experience). Often people would walk into the room and comment that the "energy" was peaceful. Maybe there was a link between this feeling they had and the music they couldn't consciously hear. Anyway, i reckon that it's well worth experimenting with. I'll ask him to recommend some music for dreaming.

Best dreams

Adam

Adam (Aszmerling),

That is very interesting. I haven't had much time to set up experiments recently because I am at college, and between being busy and atmoshphere of dorm life its hard to hone in on LD at this point. But in a few weeks when I go back home I plan to try some experiments (lucid induction and sublimining priming) with lucid dreams and music.

Adam

Adam, In answer to your questions: The cues I use aren't musical ones they are a recording of my own voice reminding me that I may be dreaming and should do a reality check. For me this means pressing the NovaDreamer RT button. I have tried using musical cues but as you pointed out they require work during the day in order to be recognised. Because I am already listening to the music in my dream it seems to be much easier to hear the verbal cue when it comes. You mentioned that your music system does not have a timer facillity. In case you don't already know this, if you are using windows XP, there is a built-in scheduled task program which you can set to run programs at a certain time. Just open the Control Panel and then open Scheduled Tasks and add a task from there.If you are not using XP you may need to get some seperate software as you mentioned. I agree with what you said about the earphones, the leads can be a pain. I look forward to the day when they start producing cordless in-ear phones. It would make things a lot easier. Cheers.

I find this topic very intriguing and want to try it myself. Before I got into Lucid Dreaming,I used to fall asleep with headphones on while watching TV or listening to music....I thought it was a bad thing so I stopped!

Nick, how do you record/burn your voice to a CD? I have a DVD/CD burner with Sonic Record Now software. Do I need something else? I assume that you make a file of your voice and then add it to the CD as you would with music...I'm just not clear on how you record the file in the first place!

Thanks! Steve

Adam,

I've tried Hemi-synch CD's at bedtime for years and have some designed to get you into the theta and delta state with music. It helps me fall asleep, but doesn't have lucidity cues.

I recently purchased a Lucid Dreaming kit by Bradley Thompson which contained a hemi-sync CD that is designed to mimic the brain wave states preceeding REM with cues in the REM state. It only vaguely worked for me and then after the second time, I could never fall asleep with that particular CD. Now this same company has created an 8 hour Hemi Sync CD so that you can sleep with it on all night and have it que you during the REM states. It did not work for me and in fact, made me feel awful--couldn't fall asleep at all and it took several hours for my own mind state to feel normal or rested.

The musical CD I have that helps me relax is called "Sacred Ground : Music and Window Frequencies for Meditation by Kelly Howell" Check out www.brainsync.com

Sincerely,

Eve

Greetings, I have been listening to the Lucid dreaming CD from the Holosync series which uses all these funky double hypnotic inductions, subliminal and other ways to alter brain wave activities and it certainly relaxes me. I had not had one single LD from it until last night. However this LD was so short lived and what happened was: I was at home, found myself screaming "I'm dreaming! Make this last!" I tried looking at my hands but they were invisible! I tried spinning, but woke up bfore i could even turn !

Thought i'd share this.

Best dreams,

Adam

Adam..The nova dreamer mask is reasonably comfortable..Right? All you have to do is [CONVINCE YOURSELF] take on the attitude that the mask is very comfortable and you can hardly feel it on your eyes..In time it will become so..Then as you drift into sleep you maintain the attitude you will be dreaming soon and nothing can bother you and your not concerned about becoming lucid because you know it will happen..Its all in the mind just take the right attitude and dont become obsesed about the mask or becoming lucid..It will happen..cheers..Tom

Thanks for the encouragement, Tom.

Hi, all, there are some very inexpensive CD alarm clocks for sale. Mine cost 25 bucks. You can burn a CD message to yourself, and play it during the late sleep cycle. Some have multiple alarm time settings. I've had some success with this, and no computer is necessary. I have also used Hemisync CDs for many years. I don't believe they stimulate lucidity because of the binaural background or any such brainwave sync effect, but they do occasionally enter my dream, and I have become lucid this way. I use comfortable wireless earphones or pillow speakers. I have learned to sleep comfortably with padded earphones, even lying on my ear.

Eve, I would like to try that 8 hour CD of yours. Care to sell it?

Paul

Steve, I'm not familliar with the software you are using (though it will probably do all the same stuff) so I'll just give you the method I use to record my voice. It's pretty quick and easy. As I don't know your level of knowledge, forgive me if some of this sounds a bit obvious! First download Audacity (this is a free program available at: http://audacity.sourceforge.net/ ). Obviously you'll need a computer microphone if you don't have one already. Once this is plugged in and detected by Windows XP (I'm assuming you are using XP) then open Audacity. Near the top of the screen are the usual play/record/stop buttons. Just below the last of these buttons is a field which allows you to change your recording input. Make sure this is set to Microphone. Now click the record button and you should now be able to talk into the mic and see you voice being recorded onscreen. Once you are done, just hit stop and then save your file as a WAV file (go to the "file" menu then "export as WAV". Once saved just add this to your CD recording as a seperate track(s). Audacity also allows you to add many effects and fade your tracks in or out, but for basic voice recording this is enough.

Paul,

I can give you the CD if you will be in Hawaii this July for that retreat. For some reason the hemi sync patterns in these particular CD's by Bradley Thompson keep me awake.

If you aren't going to be at the retreat send me your mailing address and I'll send it.

Which Hemi sync CD's work for you or you got lucid with?

Eve

Eve, I will indeed be there. I have a couple of CDs you might like to try in return, which I will be happy to bring along.

I just purchased his Subliminal Studio package, going to make my own hemi-sync SL discs. It's probably a ripoff, but I'm going to check out using subliminals to reinforce my intention to become lucid in my very next dream! Thought I might go into a side business if this has any real effect. It seems worth looking into as a potential LD enhancing technique.

Looking forward to meeting you in person!

Paul

Thanks Nick, that's exactly the info that I was looking for. I have XP and will download Audacity.

Although I'm not a computer geek by any means, I know just enough about computers to make me adventurous from time to time...and that gets me in trouble from time to time as well!

Thanks again for your detailed response!

Steve

Paul,

It sounds like a great idea to create some of your own hemi-sync CD's and subliminal messaging system. I'm always leary of others subliminal tapes or Cd's because you never really know what they put in them.

I did order a couple of other hemi-sync Cd's from that company; a Deep Meditation one and the Digital Drug one. If I remember correctly the digital drug one was supposed to have frequencies to match certain hallucinogens like psilosybin or DMT. When I tried that CD, I didn't really notice anything except some relaxation.

I look forward to meeting you too, and trying some new hemi-sync CD's.

Eve

Thanks to Nick's tips, I've begun recording my own CD's of music with dreaming cues. I'll let everyone here know how it works. Thanks for your help, Nick! BTW, Audacity works very well and is unbelievably easy to use.

FYI, I've also been listening to some brainwave CD's with LD cues for the last two nights. Nothing happened the first night. Last night, I didn't become lucid but the dreaming cues worked their way into a dream.

I dreamed that my "teacher" was asking me repeatedly if I was dreaming...obviously,it was the voice on the CD. I got confused since every time I answered "Yes", he would ask me again(once again, the looped voice on the CD). After a few times, I didn't understand why he kept asking me since I had already answered him. Because he kept asking me, I began to doubt that I was dreaming and began saying "I'm not sure" which pretty much brought that dream to an end.

I'm going to try again tonight.

Steve

This is all great information. Can anyone recommend a CD-alarm clock that they have found works best for this? I've had trouble finding them to begin with, so when I do find one I want to make sure it is good. In a few weeks I will start running some experiments with Music induced LDing. I will let people know how it works out.

Adam

Steve, glad I could be of service. Be sure to do a reality check every time you hear a cue - it can be a good idea to play the CD's during the day too and do a reality check each time you hear the cue while awake. This makes it much more likely you will do the check in your dreams. Good luck with it. Nick.

Just an update, I had a Lucid Dream this morning while listening to a music CD with my own cues.

Actually, it was not one of my more memorable LD's. I got out of bed with my headphones still on and could hear the music playing. I noticed that I now had two air conditioners side by side in my bedroom window instead of only one. That prompted me to do the "finger in the palm" reality test...the skin on the back of my hand was like rubber and my finger pushed it outwards with ease.

I looked into the mirror for the first time in a dream and saw myself with wild looking hair and wearing headphones. In reality, the headphone cable isn't long enough for me to be walking around my room. I went back to bed in the dream and tried to turn off my wall lamp...of course, the switch didn't work and the light would not turn off.

I'd like to say that the music and cues helped me to become Lucid but I can't say for sure because yesterday a tremendous amount of stress was eliminated from my life. I had been waiting for almost a year to find out if my job was going to be eliminated...I made the cut and it's possible that the tremendous relief from almost a year of stress and worry contributed to having the LD.

At any rate, the music and cues are finding their way into my dreams so I'll continue experimenting.

Steve

Steve, I can definitely relate. I didn't have a single LD when I was unemployed and couldn't find a job. I wonder why life stress should make a difference in lucidity frequency?

I think you had a great LD, chock full of challenging experiences and reflections. Did you become lucid when you did the reality test? And could you explain the test for the rest of us? I'm not familiar with it.

Thanks.

Paul

Paul, it's getting to be that I don't feel right unless I've got something to worry about! I hope to change that quickly.

Most of the time, I already know that I'm lucid when my memory of the dream begins...the reality test usually just confirms what I already know. I can also usually tell if I'm lucid by the "atmosphere" of the dream...the clarity, peacefulness, and vividness of the surroundings. I sometimes have a feeling of something undefinable being odd which prompts me to do a reality test.

In my last dream, I had a definite sign. I knew I was dreaming when I saw TWO air conditioners in my window. I only have one... I remember laughing to myself about it when I did the reality test because I already knew I was lucid.

The "finger in the palm" test is just that: If you suspect that you're dreaming, you push a finger from one hand into the palm of your other hand...if you're dreaming, your finger will go through your palm, pushing the skin on the back of your hand outwards, the length of your finger, like it was made of rubber or elastic. Try it! It never fails to fascinate me....I think that I picked it up on another LD site somewhere...This and seeing if I can fly are my most common RT's.

The vocal and music cues are still working their way into my dreams.

The latest cue I'm trying is a 60 second vocal cue (Are you dreaming? Do a reality test...you're dreaming... and so on)that repeats every hour. Just for fun, I added lots of echo and reverb to my voice. In the dream, it manifested itself as a Starbucks cashier who had a funny "speech impediment"...her voice echoed just like mine on the CD! My dream friend and I didn't want to be rude, but we thought it was hilarious and tried not to laugh. Unfortunately, I didn't make the connection in the dream.

Steve, I must admit that when I have tried similar body sensing actions in dreams I feel reassuringly solid, like when I rub my hands together. I haven't experienced anything like the hand stretching you describe. I'm definitely going to give it a try.

I do, however, pass easily through walls. Actually I don't experience a passage through a solid substance so much as a sudden vanishing of the obstruction and production of a new "outdoors" dream scene. Also, I have been a frequent flyer since my very first "OBE".

Has anyone had any experience with shape-shifting in lucid dreams, like actually transforming into a bird or other animal? I've never tried it, although I do tend to fly onto eaves, tree branches, and wires, etc. and perch from time to time.

Steve, I would be interested to hear if you experience accommodation over a few days with your audio cues. My audio experiments were productive only for a brief period, then I no longer would hear or incorporate the sounds.

Merrily, merrily... Paul

Paul,

I also experience a kind of accomodation when it comes to audio cues in CD's listening to them at night. On the first try I'll hear the messages within a dream, then after using it, my mind just ignores the cues.

I haven't tried the hand exercise in lucid dreams, but have tried to change my image in dreams from time to time. I'm still a human woman, and just change my hair or face or body type. I've encountered dream characters that shape shift though. Animals mostly.

Another thing I've noticed is that sometimes I cannot go through walls or windows in dreams, and sometimes I can. In a past LD where I wanted to go through a window, something unexpected occurred. Instead of flying through the window, it opened ajar so I could easily fly out. On other occasions the wall distintegrates. On another LD where it was more lucid, wild and colorful---I really forced myself through the wall and it was a crunchy wall. I was clumsy but I did it!

Eve

Paul and Eve, Shortly after I discovered Lucid Dreaming, I had an animal transformation Lucid Dream.

I was at a party, sitting on a sofa. Someone's baby was crawling around unsupervised. The baby crawled up on the sofa and began hitting me repeatedly and laughing. The parents thought it was cute, I was thoroughly annoyed and wanted to leave.

I thought that since I was dreaming, I could change into a SNAKE and crawl away unnoticed. (It was perfectly logical in the dream!)

I slowly changed into a large boa constrictor type of snake. At one point, I felt that I was in a clear tube...I could see my face and hands pressed up against the inside of the tube... strangely, my view was still from the outside.

I crawled outside and up a tree. I looked behind me and saw my completely transformed, vividly colored green and brown snake body coiled around the tree branch. I woke up.

What makes this even stranger for me is that I have a irrational fear of snakes...I don't know why I was so comfortable about changing into one.

That was the only time I've had a dream like this.

Eve, I rarely use doors in my LD's. Most of my WILD's begin with me in my bedroom. Once I realize that I'm dreaming, I almost always leap through my bedroom window, through a screen and jalousie glass panes, and land in the grass outside.

I went through a wall once. It was the only WILD I've had in which I felt that I was actually floating without a body instead of having a definite dream body. Don't know what that means...

Steve

I remember one dream where I went through one wall, and immediately another appeared in front of me, then another and another each time I passed through. I guess my self didn't really want to leave the room.

I'm going out to look for myself. If I get back before I return, please ask me to wait.

PAul