Habitual reality testing is supposed to help induce lucidity because the habit of reality testing is supposed to carry over into your dreams. Problem is, my daily habits hardly ever carry over into my dreams. Not even smoking, when I was a smoker; I'd never be smoking in my dreams. I think about reality vs. dreaming a lot during the day, you could call it habitual. But rarely in my dreams do I think like this, hence I'm not realizing that I'm dreaming nearly as often as I should (I'm going through an especially long dry spell right now).

Any suggestions to this problem?

Jason, I am also going through a long "dry spell". I've been doubling my efforts with PMTs and all other techniques to bring it to a close.

Maybe it's a question of when we do our reality tests. Random or regularly scheduled tests, or just thinking about dreams versus reality, doesn't seem to do much good, at least not for me.

However, maybe waiting for something truly odd to happen during the day before doing a test, and then doing it thoroughly, with visualization of becoming lucid, might be more effective. This should train us to both remain alert for the occurence of something odd, as well as program the response to it that's most likely to lead to lucidity. I think maybe both sides need to become habitual, not just asking the critical question. I think this practice is more likely to carry over.

Of course, having that strong intention to remember to recognize is also key.

Hope we can both break through this slump.

Paul

WBTB: We'll Both Train Better!

I came close last night. I made sure my last thoughts before I fell asleep were about lucid dreaming. I had 3 false awakenings, and in each one, I picked up my NovaDreamer off the table next to my bed and tried to hit the button. And everytime, I couldn't find the darn button. I kept feeling resistors and capacitors on the circuit board, and I was afraid of breaking it, so I'd set it aside. And then wake up feeling dumb. So close! I bet I'll get there tonight.

Jason

I think the dream gods are trying to tell me something. Enough lucid dreaming! How about some lucid living? How about having daily dream work carry over into waking life?

I definitely need more daily awareness. Today I kept wandering around in my head, lost in thought. I must have missed about a hundred dreamsigns that I might have used, because I just wasn't paying attention. If I don't pay attention awake, why should I when asleep?

Intention, Attention, and Awareness--the keys to lucidity, asleep or awake!

Paul

For Ashley WBTB: Walk Butt To Bed

Paul,

You have a point here about attention in daily life. While in Hawaii i couldn't help but notice and pay alot of attention to my outer surroundings, so much color, warmth, newness and excitement on meeting all these people. I also notice that when I'm out of town or doing something out of the ordinary, then I have a lucid dream.

One way to spice up one's life is to make an effort to do something differently each day, like how you walk through the house, drive to the store, or anything that can become habitual, then break that habit and do it differently, paying extra attention. This creates loopholes of open perception, lucidity.

One excercise that may be interesting, is to spend some time just observing ones inner or outer environment without doing any thinking at all. Just being open to what is "catching your attention". Synchronicities often happen in that manner, and it may connect to dream themes as well.

Eve

I think dayily habits indeed carry over into dreams..Our personal daily habits [good] or [bad] show up in our dreams in a [masked] way..I agree with what Edgar Cayce said in his book about becomming our higher selves..And living to a set of [good] Ideals..That our dreams will become more clear if we walk a clear path through life..But I know that walking that path is not so easy for most.. Great people like mother tereasa and Ghandi did and their dreams must have been their true treasures... My personal thoughts about all this dream flying and walking though walls as fun as It may be is...This play time must be happening at the minds [lower levels] because I feel their is somthing greater and far better rewards at a higher lucid spiritual level in the human mind and heart.. I feel that a lot of us have had those kind of dreams but feel they are too personal and contraversal to talk about.. Yes I think its posable that our daily activities in our turbulant minds comes back to us in our dreams.. Like a reward for your days activitys..Mother tereasa and Gandi were experts at being their higher selves and were set apart from most as special and valued.. I think dream lucidity has great lasting rewards for those who [can] use it in the highest way..cool dreams to all..Tom

Tom

I agree that daily habits usually do carry over for most people...I'm just saying MINE normally don't. I'm always doing stuff, thinking about stuff, saying stuff, and in places in my dreams that's completely different from my daily life. You'd think then, that it would be easy for me to say "hey this is different, I must be dreaming," but although I frequently think about being lucid/lucid dreaming during the day, I rarely do in dreams.

Jason

Jason:

You're not alone -- my dreams also rarely include any notion of my daily habits; or even for that matter the major unusual events of waking life. If daily habits are represented (because they must be?), then they are so subtly embedded in my dreams that I never notice them.

And yes, you'd think that dreams which have nothing to do at all with waking life would be dreamsigns unto themselves, wouldn't you? But for me they're not. Perhaps when everything is odd, odd becomes expected, and it is difficult to recognize the dream. Indeed, most of my DILD's happen during the rare event that I spot something familiar in a dream.

For me the only way around this is to concentrate more heavily (and abstractly, because I can't count on dream signs or "oddity") on intentions before sleep, and to settle on having more WILD's then DILD's, since WILD's aren't as effected by these factors.

Best of dreams,

Peter

WBTB: Walk By The Bystanders

Peter,

Maybe that is the key, concentrating more heavily on intentions before sleep. I read somewhere that the Tibetan monks who have mastered lucid dreaming can concentrate single mindedly on one thing for extreme amounts of time. It's difficult, not letting your mind wander away from your intentions as you fall asleep, because of course the more you start thinking about falling asleep, the harder it is to do. When was the last time you can actually rememeber the exact moment you fell asleep? You have to let go of conciousness at some point so you can fall asleep but still retain the intentions.

Wet Baboons Take Baths

Jason

Yes, Jason, you're right on! That's why I have started meditating in earnest, which for me now means twice a day, as Alan Wallace suggests. I'm hoping to improve my ability to focus my attention. At bedtime, I meditate right up to sleep time, so I get to carry that mindfulness of breathing right into sleep. I've already noticed that I am more aware of the process of falling asleep than I used to be. I'm also seeing much more hypnogogic imagery!

About why we don't realize we're dreaming--the old discussion, right, Peter? We are programmed to believe what we perceive, what our minds model based on whatever information is available, whether we're asleep or awake. Our survival depends on our belief in our own perceptions. Remember, people have been put into mental institutions for life because they can't accept that what they see isn't real--delusions and hallucinations.

You might think that while awake you would have no problem denying that an impossible event you saw actually happened, but I doubt it. You might be amazed, awestruck, puzzled, even frightened, but I'd bet you'd go to your grave swearing that since you saw it, it must have been real.

The amazing thing to me is not that we don't always recognize what's odd in our dreams, but that we can actually learn to do it sometimes.

Paul

Eve, thanks for the ideas. I really do need as much help as you higher beings can provide.

Paul

Peter and all..When one is asleep..One is [OUT COLD]!!! So just what kind of awareness is it that makes one conscious during rem sleep??? I have experianced super strong dream cues lately.But my sleeping brain chooses to accept them..Just how does one WAKE UP that lucid awareness..NEW IDEAS? OR could this awareness be a dellusion for some? I have dreamed lucidly but almost by accident only when conditions seemed perfect.. I have been recalling my dreams and writing them down for over two years..So when does one start getting their rewards for hard work done? I still think their is a need for a TRULY [efective] [LDID] If one is ever created..., Happy dreams..Tom

Tom, I think of it like this. From the point of view of brain physiology dreaming is pretty much the same as being fully awake, with a couple of notable exceptions. One, the body is paralysed (usually), and two, the senses aren't recording information. In all other respects, you might as well be awake. So saying one is "out cold" while dreaming just isn't true, although you could maybe say so for nonREM sleep. The dreaming brain naturally believes it is awake.

So, there YOU are, being your brain, awake and perceiving a world just as you would when truly awake. Plus, you have amnesia; no memory of the world before you fell asleep. It's like you were a newborn human suddenly dumped in a strange universe, fully functional but brand new. What choice do you have but to believe that what you see is real, and navigate the best you can through it? You don't know what's possible or impossible in that universe, so how could you recognize the odd?

So, from that perspective, it's not so hard to understand why the brain believes that the dreaming world must be real. To overcome that belief takes training and practice. I don't think there are any guaranteed shortcuts.

Paul

Hello Everyone, Just an FYI, my most pronounced LDs have come from no practice of any kind whatsoever. In 2003 I was in a Dome IMAX Theatre watching an extemely fast paced movie and while beta consciously awake I felt right then and there like I was peeling out of myself and thought if this doen't bring on an LD I don't know what will. Nothing happened for a month and then the most spectacular LD with extreme vividness all sensory awareness occurred. Previously in the 80s I did some minor intention, attention, awareness exercises and they occurred as well, but not with the magnitude that this one did and others after it and at an older age. Now I am practicing and entertaining all of these techniques I am reading on the posts and they are not yet creating the same intensity as IMAX brought on.

Again I wasn't doing any prep or training or anything like that and it just happened. How does one explain that??

Patricia

Patricia, a fair proportion of the population have had one or more lucid dreams spontaneously. Children especially, I think, may have lots of them, with no intention. What I was referring to was learning to have them at will. I think just being interested and desirous of having lucid dreams, or maybe seeing an IMAX film, could increase the frequency of spontaneous LDs, but is that the same as having them at will? I don't believe it is.

I know from listenening to the really accomplished oneironauts like Stephen, Keelin, et.al. that a time comes when it gets easier to have a lucid dream by intention, but it takes a fair amount of work to get there. There's also that elusive "talent for lucid dreaming" that Stephen refers to, which I myself don't possess in abundance.

Since my goal is to increase my frequency of LDs, and that only modestly, I have to do some real training of my intention. All these other interventions, including hair pulling, supplements, watching videos, etc., in my humble opinion, only serve to increase the probability a bit of having a spontaneous LD.

That's what I mean when I say, "There are no shortcuts."

Paul

Hello Paul (Shortcuts) Thanks for your input.

I totally understand what you are saying about Intention, Attention, Awareness To Create LDs At Will and using MILD to achieve that goal as I am using these techniques as well. I probably could do a better job with keeping my mind from darting around on many events just before falling asleep though.

The IMAX film and since that episode instilled in me an active pursuit of similiar type films that I could view at home to create the same effect and more frequent LDs. These First Person Fast Motion Perspective Films have done a little more than just create spontaneous LDs for me. I have a track record since May of 2003 of one a month, didn't have that before. I always incorporate viewing these types of films in my LD tactics. What these films could really be doing is inadvertently forcing you to become Aware of Your Awareness. Maybe that is what is really going on and coincides with your recommendations made in the first paragraph. They do create the illusion of feeling like you are separate from your physical self in a subtle sense and effortless to do with a pure unencumbered awareness and attention to the Film.

Also since Dreams occur in the Alpha State using a safe supplement could enhance LD probability provided it lowers brainwaves etc. that way the intension; focus would have a better chance of sticking at the right time. Fortunately most of these brain supplements have an ingestion period of 90 minutes just about the time REM sets in.

Back To The Drawing Board,

Patricia

Patricia, I believe that there is value in any technique which enhances LD frequency, provided it is not physically unsafe. Clearly, the NovaDreamer was designed with that in mind, as a device to help people who were perhaps not (yet) adept at having LDs at will, to have more of them. The whole idea behind WBTB, late am naps, and so forth, is the same (These techniques are based on sound scientific work.) Without these techniques I might not ever have another LD, because, as I have said, my inherent talent for having LDs is not huge.

What many of the techniques we discuss on the forum, including your many suggestions, achieve is just as you say, I believe; the development of a heightened-awareness mind state, which is helpful in becoming lucid. Using them can certaily increase the frequency of lucid dreams, if only by a small margin (no complaints about that, though.)

What, however, do you think we can do to reach the loftier goal of having LDs at will? I work diligently at my PMTs, dream journaling, etc., yet the goal seems more elusive than ever. I have been working toward that goal for almost 8 years now. When I read some posts, with people having multiple LDs per night on a regular basis, I don't become jeolous (well, maybe a little) or discouraged (well, maybe a little), but rather more and more suspicious that perhaps there are natural limits to what a given person can achieve, regardless of what he or she does.

So as I read all these posts on helpful if secondary type techniques, I can't help wondering if the posting member has the same suspicion that I have. Then I feel like giving myself a kick in the seat! Are we now willing to settle for an extra LD per month here and there, for the achievement of which we have to watch IMAX videos, take supplements, and literally pull our hair? Is it really worth all that effort, or should we be directing our efforts elsewhere?

Hence the little pep talks regarding shortcuts. They're maybe more for myself than anyone else.

Paul

Paul:

I think it's worth the effort if you use the LD as a tool for self-improvement. If even one LD a month (or a year for that matter) teaches you something about yourself or enhances your awareness in the waking world, then it was probably worth all the hair-pulling.

Speaking as someone who's been at this for decades and still has great difficulty with consistent "at will" LD'ing, I believe the rewards from lucid dreaming can easily dwarf the effort put into having them. If you let them.

Best of Dreams,

Peter

p.s. are we still discussing daily habits here? just curious!

Peter, I didn't mean we should give up the effort, just find more productive avenues to pursue. If pulling hair every night gives one an extra LD per month, it might be worth it, but if it gives an extra LD per year, it might not, depending on the pullee. Everything we hope to accomplish has an effort/benefit ratio. Sure, even if we only have one LD in a lifetime it's great, but for my money its not worth 1000 hours of effort at a specific task to achieve it. After all, how likely is it that a single LD will be life changing?

Of course, you're right that we are off the thread topic, unless you consider that all the effort we put into reality testing habit development might not be worth the effort if it doesn't work!

Paul

Hi Paul, You mentioned what can be done to reach Loftier Goals of Achieving LDs At Will. I don't really know what else to do except adhere to the WBTB and Get More Sleep neither of which I am doing right now on a systematic basis due to work obligations, cycle changes, etc. I will say one thing though, after taking the Focus Formula and the DMAE rather close together; one night take one, then skip a night and take the other, in July I had two LDs about one night apart even with my lack of recommended sleep and no WBTB. Another attribute of using these two substances sporatically thru out the last month is my migraine headache was significantly diminished.

Now getting back to IMAX related Films (not just any IMAX, must be Fast & Maneuvering in Nature.) Ideally I would like to get my hands on a Virtual Reality Headset with Software created that mimics what can happen in a typical LD.... For example, Vivid Scenery while in first person perspective giving the illusion of floating thru barriers and objects, flying around and at rapid paces. Anything that one would experience in an LD that can't be experienced in the physical dimension. This would be better than IMAX, and I believe could really fool the subsconsious mind at night into having LDs. If you didn't have an LD, would it really matter all that much since the VReality Headset with appropriate software could give the same effect and at Will. Just put the thing on and go and no periphereal hindrances as the Headset is self contained with no distractions. If a NovaDreamer can be created why not one of these mechanisms. It would be like a NovaDreamer with Training Wheels as when learning to ride a bike.

Yes the whole LD experimentation including secondary type techniques is worth my time and effort as I view it as a hobby and a rather inexpensive one as well. This is what I really like to do, granted other things get in the way, like beta life. Work, Chores, Visiting People, Appointments, whatever.

So my daily habits will continue to contain hair pulling, reality tests, MILD, in attaining more frequent LDs. I know I have to really work on the most proven methods though which are WBTB and Get More Sleep with Intension, Attention, and Awareness.

(I don't mean to get political with the WBTB, but the guy is always on the news and this is what comes to mind.)

WBTB: Will Bush Tire Bamboozling?

To More LDs However Long It Takes. Patricia